New Bus Schedules Are Out

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The BMs have been cut down further going back to the city on Saturdays... :mad:

 

The X10 and X1 gained a slightly better frequencies. The X10 gained 20 minute frequencies going to the city on Saturdays for most of the day and coming back to the city. The X1 gained 10 minute frequencies coming back from the city during the week, still no expanded service. The X17C also gained a bit more frequencies on Saturdays.

[Amtrak7]

The BMs have been cut down further going back to the city on Saturdays... :mad:

 

The X10 and X1 gained a slightly better frequencies. The X10 gained 20 minute frequencies going to the city on Saturdays for most of the day and coming back to the city. The X1 gained 10 minute frequencies coming back from the city during the week, still no expanded service. The X17C also gained a bit more frequencies on Saturdays.

 

http://www.mta.info/nyct/service/Fall2011_BusServiceChanges.htm#schedule

 

Also note the slightly expanded span of service on the x1.

 

As for the BM's, I have a feeling the MTA is going to keep on cutting one run a pick until there's no more Sat service... certainly I don't agree with that for BM1-3.

[Mysterious2train]

I used Amtrak7's Schedule Downloader 2011a from January of this year intending to download any schedules from January I didn't get.... it ended up downloading the new schedules instead (With the exception of the B67 and B69, because back in January they were in two different schedules instead of one like today, and there were two separate options for the B67 and B69)

 

There is more B46 service during AM Rush, on the Limited, but.... now there's less B46 service out of Kings Plaza during that time period than before... in fact, there are lot of B46 Limited runs out of Avenue H now, a combination of runs that used to start at K.P. and brand-new runs. Some of these runs also end at Eastern Pkwy, too just like the local.

 

There's more B82 weekday service too.

 

I did a side-by-side comparison of the B46 Service increase... on the Northbound Limited during part of AM Rush...

 

[using the bottom half of the first timetable page]

[Amtrak7]

I used Amtrak7's Schedule Downloader 2011a from January of this year intending to download any schedules from January I didn't get.... it ended up downloading the new schedules instead (With the exception of the B67 and B69, because back in January they were in two different schedules instead of one like today, and there were two separate options for the B67 and B69)

 

2011a is old. 2011b is out right now and 2011c will be released later today, after I fix a bug.

[Mysterious2train]

I know. I was trying to download the old Janaury schedules with 2011a yesterday, and it ended up downloading the September schedules instead.

 

In other words, you could say 2011c was released a little early for me

[Amtrak7]

I know. I was trying to download the old Janaury schedules with 2011a yesterday, and it ended up downloading the September schedules instead.

 

In other words, you could say 2011c was released a little early for me

 

That's intended, as the MTA doesn't archive schedules or change the URL with every change. (if they did, my program would be useless)

 

2011c is the QM20/BxM8, Q45/Q47, and bugfixes.

[Mysterious2train]

Oh. That makes sense. Well, I already have the new Q47, since it was in 2011a.

 

And whaddya know, the Bx55 has higher headaways all across the board know. I better start getting my final rides in now

[checkmatechamp13]

1) The BMs have been cut down further going back to the city on Saturdays... :mad:

 

2) The X10 and X1 gained a slightly better frequencies. The X10 gained 20 minute frequencies going to the city on Saturdays for most of the day and coming back to the city. The X1 gained 10 minute frequencies coming back from the city during the week, still no expanded service. The X17C also gained a bit more frequencies on Saturdays.

 

1) I'm jumping for joy. (Well, at least for the BM4)

 

Seriously, though, if the buses are going back to Manhattan to make another trip anyway, they might as well be running in service.

 

I have the same hunch as Amtrak. It must have something to do with getting ready for the MTA/NYCT merge.

 

2) They expanded X1 service a little, though. Saturday service runs to Manhattan until 23:00 (IIRC, it used to end at 22:00). SI-bound service runs until 01:00, rather than 00:30.

 

They also added one earlier trip to the X10 on weekdays (05:04), and a later SI-bound trip on the X17 (23:50). On Saturday, they added a Manhattan-bound 05:00 trip for the X17.

 

I noticed that they cut the 15:00 trip from Huguenot on weekdays. While it didn't have a lot of riders, it didn't really cost much to operate. There are a ton of buses deadheading from the Yukon Depot to Manhattan at that time of the afternoon, so it doesn't cost much to put one into revenue service.

[B35 via Church]

1) I'm jumping for joy. (Well, at least for the BM4)

For what ?

 

 

I did a side-by-side comparison of the B46 Service increase... on the Northbound Limited during part of AM Rush...

I see what they did there....

 

there's really no overall increase in service during those hours... all they did was schedule buses to meet the demand of riders during the AM rush... In other words, if you're traveling b/w avenue H & dekalb av (which is where the majority of riders are seeking), you got an increase..... if you're a passenger b/w kings plz & av H, and b/w dekalb & WBP, you got a decrease in service....

 

It makes sense what they're doing, but it's not an overall service increase.... looks like they just broke even....

 

 

Anyway, that schedule confirms what we were talkin about in an older thread, regarding less service overall to WBP, and more buses ending at dekalb as of late...

[LRG]

Just get rid of Saturday BM4 service already.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

there's really no overall increase in service during those hours... all they did was schedule buses to meet the demand of riders during the AM rush... In other words, if you're traveling b/w avenue H & dekalb av (which is where the majority of riders are seeking), you got an increase..... if you're a passenger b/w kings plz & av H, and b/w dekalb & WBP, you got a decrease in service....

 

It makes sense what they're doing, but it's not an overall service increase.... looks like they just broke even....

 

The weekday Q17 has that, too... The north half (Flushing to Fresh Meadows, where most of the riders are) got an increase while the south half (Fresh Meadows to Jamaica) got a decrease.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

As for the BM's, I have a feeling the MTA is going to keep on cutting one run a pick until there's no more Sat service... certainly I don't agree with that for BM1-3.

 

 

1) I'm jumping for joy. (Well, at least for the BM4)

 

Seriously, though, if the buses are going back to Manhattan to make another trip anyway, they might as well be running in service.

 

I have the same hunch as Amtrak. It must have something to do with getting ready for the MTA/NYCT merge.

 

Well I don't think they're going to scrap it completely, though I'll be watching to see what they do for the next pick. The service is basically almost equal to what they're offering during the week in terms of when service stops running to the city anyway. They have a similar set up with the X27/X28 buses and they've kept the last run at 16:00 to Midtown for sometime now. I think axing all Saturday service on the BMs would be a bit ridiculous. The trips back from the city do get usage.

[Mysterious2train]

The added new Sunday short-turns on the B103 between Canarise and Flatbush Av during the late morning and afternoon... I figured it was only a matter of time.

 

What's interesting is that instead of a more even headaway, the short-turn buses to Canarise are scheduled to leave the Junction just a few minutes before the buses from Downtown Brooklyn arrive. Which is actually not all that bad of an idea.

 

Saturday service has also increased a little, instead of every 10 minutes to the Junction and every 20 minutes to Downtown Brooklyn it's now every 6-9 minutes to the train and every 15 minutes to Downtown.

 

B103 service has increased a lot over the past couple of years

[Gotham Bus Co.]

The BMs have been cut down further going back to the city on Saturdays... :mad:

 

 

Obviously the passengers aren't riding correctly.

[B35 via Church]

B103 service has increased a lot over the past couple of years

 

Thanks to the worsening/unreliable service of the , the slowness/crowding of the B41, and the crowding of the B6 (you can only short turn but so many B6's @ glenwood/nostrand).... add that up, and you have riders looking to embark upon B103's....

 

Good move(s) on Spring Creek's part to really build up that route !

[checkmatechamp13]

1) For what ?

 

2) I see what they did there....

 

there's really no overall increase in service during those hours... all they did was schedule buses to meet the demand of riders during the AM rush... In other words, if you're traveling b/w avenue H & dekalb av (which is where the majority of riders are seeking), you got an increase..... if you're a passenger b/w kings plz & av H, and b/w dekalb & WBP, you got a decrease in service....

 

 

1) For the fact that they're cutting back the BM4.

 

2) And of course, you know what they were thinking of when they redistributed the service: Making sure it was cost-neutral.

 

Well I don't think they're going to scrap it completely, though I'll be watching to see what they do for the next pick. The service is basically almost equal to what they're offering during the week in terms of when service stops running to the city anyway. They have a similar set up with the X27/X28 buses and they've kept the last run at 16:00 to Midtown for sometime now. I think axing all Saturday service on the BMs would be a bit ridiculous. The trips back from the city do get usage.

 

Personally, I think it would be better if Saturday service were eliminated on all BM routes except the BM1. The money saved could be used to increase service to every 30 minutes on Saturday and add Sunday service to the route. As a bonus, B4 service could return to Sheepshead Bay so it lessens the impact on BM3 riders.

 

Now that I think about it, if the buses have to deadhead back to Manhattan for a second trip, they might as well expand the Manhattan-bound weekday service on those lines. Hell, they might as well do that for the X17 as well (and they could increase the frequency of the X1 in the PM rush going back to Manhattan).

 

The added new Sunday short-turns on the B103 between Canarise and Flatbush Av during the late morning and afternoon... I figured it was only a matter of time.

 

What's interesting is that instead of a more even headaway, the short-turn buses to Canarise are scheduled to leave the Junction just a few minutes before the buses from Downtown Brooklyn arrive. Which is actually not all that bad of an idea.

 

Saturday service has also increased a little, instead of every 10 minutes to the Junction and every 20 minutes to Downtown Brooklyn it's now every 6-9 minutes to the train and every 15 minutes to Downtown.

 

B103 service has increased a lot over the past couple of years

 

The thing that I don't get is that, on Sunday, there are pretty much 2 Canarsie-bound buses leaving Flatbush Avenue at the same time. Chances are that they're trying to meet the same train, but since the runs on 12 minute headways, wouldn't it make more sense to space them out a bit more? (instead of the waiting time being 18 minutes and then 2 minutes, they should make it 12 minutes and then 8 minutes)

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Personally, I think it would be better if Saturday service were eliminated on all BM routes except the BM1. The money saved could be used to increase service to every 30 minutes on Saturday and add Sunday service to the route. As a bonus, B4 service could return to Sheepshead Bay so it lessens the impact on BM3 riders.

 

I completely disagree. What is so special about BM1 users that they should keep their service and not the other BM riders? :mad: The reason the BMs exist is because all of these areas lack subway service. And this nonsense about restoring the B4 as a "bonus" is also ridiculous. They have cut 6 runs on the BM1, BM2 and BM3 alone, not including the runs they've cut on the BM4 and BM5. 6 runs on each line (BM1 - BM3) is 18 total runs that are cut just on Saturdays alone. Those cuts alone should be able to help restore full B4 service to Sheepshead Bay. I'm not stupid. They're cutting those runs and using the money to beef up express bus service elsewhere. :mad: These Saturday cuts don't include the cuts they've made to the BM express bus service during the week either, so I say with all of these cuts they're making, I don't see any improvement in the overall service for these communities, so basically they're getting their express bus service cut with nothing in return. :mad:

 

You don't use the service so of course you think it should be cut, but I do, as do others and having the BM3 saves me a ton of time over the subway, which requires multiple transfers and a longer walk from the station. If they're not going to touch service back to Brooklyn, then they should keep service back to Manhattan on Saturdays to 16:00. Anything less than that would clearly spell trouble for all of those lines. In fact I think I need to do an inquiry to see what exactly they have in store for these lines. Perhaps Senator Golden's office can shed some light on this issue because we can ill afford to lose all Saturday express bus service in Brooklyn.

[checkmatechamp13]

I completely disagree. What is so special about BM1 users that they should keep their service and not the other BM riders? :mad: The reason the BMs exist is because all of these areas lack subway service. And this nonsense about restoring the B4 as a "bonus" is also ridiculous. They have cut 6 runs on the BM1, BM2 and BM3 alone, not including the runs they've cut on the BM4 and BM5. 6 runs on each line (BM1 - BM3) is 18 total runs that are cut just on Saturdays alone. Those cuts alone should be able to help restore full B4 service to Sheepshead Bay. I'm not stupid. They're cutting those runs and using the money to beef up express bus service elsewhere. :mad: These Saturday cuts don't include the cuts they've made to the BM express bus service during the week either, so I say with all of these cuts they're making, I don't see any improvement in the overall service for these communities, so basically they're getting their express bus service cut with nothing in return. :mad:

 

You don't use the service so of course you think it should be cut, but I do, as do others and having the BM3 saves me a ton of time over the subway, which requires multiple transfers and a longer walk from the station. If they're not going to touch service back to Brooklyn, then they should keep service back to Manhattan on Saturdays to 16:00. Anything less than that would clearly spell trouble for all of those lines. In fact I think I need to do an inquiry to see what exactly they have in store for these lines. Perhaps Senator Golden's office can shed some light on this issue because we can ill afford to lose all Saturday express bus service in Brooklyn.

 

BM1 riders have the hardest time reaching Manhattan. Along Avenue K, there's no local bus service, and along Ralph Avenue, it's a long ride on the B47 to reach the subway (as is the case in Mill Basin). If the other rides don't want to take the subway, they can use a local bus to reach the BM1 (the B6/B103 for the BM2, the B44/B49 for the BM3, and the B44 for part of the BM4).

 

The only areas that don't have a local bus bringing them to the BM1 are Gerritsen Beach (which doesn't get a lot of riders anyway and always has the B31->).

 

Plus, you're overlooking the fact that BM1 riders gain service. They get more frequent service and Sunday service (which also affects riders in the other neighborhoods because now they can take a local bus to the express bus)

 

And you know I think the B4 should be restored no matter what.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

BM1 riders have the hardest time reaching Manhattan. Along Avenue K, there's no local bus service, and along Ralph Avenue, it's a long ride on the B47 to reach the subway (as is the case in Mill Basin). If the other rides don't want to take the subway, they can use a local bus to reach the BM1 (the B6/B103 for the BM2, the B44/B49 for the BM3, and the B44 for part of the BM4).

 

The only areas that don't have a local bus bringing them to the BM1 are Gerritsen Beach (which doesn't get a lot of riders anyway and always has the B31->).

 

Plus, you're overlooking the fact that BM1 riders gain service. They get more frequent service and Sunday service (which also affects riders in the other neighborhoods because now they can take a local bus to the express bus)

 

And you know I think the B4 should be restored no matter what.

 

 

Yeah well quite frankly with the number of express runs they have cut 18 total runs on the BM1 - BM3 on Saturdays alone over the years, they could add Sunday express bus service as a compromise. I didn't get why you were saying that they could cut the BM4 service on Saturdays and restore the B4 service, when IMO they've already cut more than enough express bus service on BM buses to restore the B4 and then some.

[checkmatechamp13]

Yeah well quite frankly with the number of express runs they have cut 18 total runs on the BM1 - BM3 on Saturdays alone over the years, they could add Sunday express bus service as a compromise. I didn't get why you were saying that they could cut the BM4 service on Saturdays and restore the B4 service, when IMO they've already cut more than enough express bus service on BM buses to restore the B4 and then some.

 

A couple of points:

 

* As of now, BM service has nothing to do with B4 service, since the BMs are subsidized by the city. Later on, if/when they merge, they could add the B4 service in exchange for some of the express bus service.

 

* When they cut service, that becomes their new baseline for "cost-neutral" proposals. So in their minds, Sunday service costs money even though they are saving by cutting 18 runs.

 

And you know my positions on both the BM4 and B4. The BM4 should be cut off-peak, and the B4 should be extended off-peak no matter what happens (IMO). I was just thinking that if they did them together, it would be cost-neutral and they would go for it.

 

Of course, I would be alright if they cut BM4 service right now, except that it decreases the chance that the B4 can return (since, like I said, their new cost-neutral baseline would be after the BM4 was cut)

[Via Garibaldi 8]

A couple of points:

 

* As of now, BM service has nothing to do with B4 service, since the BMs are subsidized by the city. Later on, if/when they merge, they could add the B4 service in exchange for some of the express bus service.

 

* When they cut service, that becomes their new baseline for "cost-neutral" proposals. So in their minds, Sunday service costs money even though they are saving by cutting 18 runs.

 

And you know my positions on both the BM4 and B4. The BM4 should be cut off-peak, and the B4 should be extended off-peak no matter what happens (IMO). I was just thinking that if they did them together, it would be cost-neutral and they would go for it.

 

Of course, I would be alright if they cut BM4 service right now, except that it decreases the chance that the B4 can return (since, like I said, their new cost-neutral baseline would be after the BM4 was cut)

 

Yeah I know all of that, that's why I don't get why you're go crazed about the BM4 being cut. My point was that if you're cutting express bus service, regardless of who is paying for it, service should be compensated for in some capacity to those communities. It's even more ridiculous that they're axing the BM runs when they're subsidized by the city.

[Mysterious2train]

The thing that I don't get is that, on Sunday, there are pretty much 2 Canarsie-bound buses leaving Flatbush Avenue at the same time. Chances are that they're trying to meet the same train, but since the runs on 12 minute headways, wouldn't it make more sense to space them out a bit more? (instead of the waiting time being 18 minutes and then 2 minutes, they should make it 12 minutes and then 8 minutes)

 

Flatbush Avenue is a really heavy stop for the B103. I think it's fair to call it the single biggest pick-up stop along the route. By giving all those Triangle Junction passengers a new, empty bus to get on, the Downtown Brooklyn bus which arrives soon after generally won't get overcrowded.

 

Reminds me of one time I was getting off the 103 at the Junction coming from Downtown Brooklyn on a Sunday, and this huge crowd was waiting for it (not for the B41 to Kings Plaza which stops at the same place, but for it); I couldn't help but think "Good thing I'm getting off here."

[checkmatechamp13]

Yeah I know all of that, that's why I don't get why you're go crazed about the BM4 being cut. My point was that if you're cutting express bus service, regardless of who is paying for it, service should be compensated for in some capacity to those communities. It's even more ridiculous that they're axing the BM runs when they're subsidized by the city.

 

Like I said, it's probably in preparation for a merge. I guess it would make it look better when they eliminate it on Saturdays ("Well, it barely ran anyway")

 

Flatbush Avenue is a really heavy stop for the B103. I think it's fair to call it the single biggest pick-up stop along the route. By giving all those Triangle Junction passengers a new, empty bus to get on, the Downtown Brooklyn bus which arrives soon after generally won't get overcrowded.

 

Reminds of me one time I was getting off the 103 at the Junction coming from Downtown Brooklyn on a Sunday, and this huge crowd was waiting for it (not for the B41 to Kings Plaza which stops at the same place, but for it); I couldn't help but think "Good thing I'm getting off here."

 

Yeah, but if I were at the Junction, I'd prefer to have a shorter wait to a less crowded bus. I mean, if you have a short-turn meeting every , the loads should be fairly evenly distributed.

 

Unless it has something to do with layover time.

[B35 via Church]

It has nothing to do with meeting any train.... matter fact, I can't think of one bus route in the boroughs that's actually timed to meet any subway train....

 

that's done for even passenger distribution on the B103 itself... nothin more, nothin less.

[checkmatechamp13]

It has nothing to do with meeting any train.... matter fact, I can't think of one bus route in the boroughs that's actually timed to meet any subway train....

 

that's done for even passenger distribution on the B103 itself... nothin more, nothin less.

 

There's a first time for everything, isn't there?

 

Ar night, there are a decent number of buses that manage to connect with the subways, because they're running at low frequencies (20 minutes). The same idea applies here except that the service isn't quite as infrequent.

 

It would still provide fairly even passenger distribution on the B103 if they tried to run the buses in sync with the trains, and it would cut down the wait times to boot.