68th Street Rehab (NIMBYism at its Finest)

[Via Garibaldi 8]

"It would ruin the fabric of the neighborhood" sounds like a great reason to exclude the disabled from having access to the subway!

 

And where is the evidence that crime may be an issue? Sounds more like an excuse to me than a valid complaint.

 

Yeah well the whole the disabled need access to the subway argument is valid, but the thing is I've argued that a long time ago and folks didn't care much about the disabled back then because according to some posters, there aren't that many disabled folks here in the city, which is certainly not true. I agree that it's valid, but it should always be valid not just in this case because the folks complaining happen to be affluent.

 

As far as crime is concerned, all you have to do is turn on the news to see that crime is on the rise on the subways and in the city in general. More and more folks getting robbed and more and more woman being sexually harassed in what are generally considered to be relatively safe areas (i.e. Windsor Terrace, Park Slope, etc.). There was also a spate of crimes on the Upper East Side too involving the subway where it was thought the attacker was using the subway entrances to make quick escapes after sexually attacking women.

 

 

You guys are talking as if nothing at all matters because you don't live anywhere near there, so let me voice my opinion as an Upper East Sider.

 

First, let me just do a quick list:

 

Pros

- Save some commuters 30 seconds to 1 minute of time

- 68th Street entrance will be less crowded

 

Cons

- Increase in homeless population on 69th Street (Yes, even if the cops do kick them away they'll just come back. Look at the 77th Street entrance)

- Increase in the people on 69th Street

- People blocking the sidewalk trying to get in

- Increase in crime (It's much easier to snatch a purse and run down the stairs than to snatch a purse, run a block, and then down the stairs without getting noticed)

- Property values decrease from the reasons listed above

 

... and lets not forget about the construction

- Years of sidewalk closures and interference with the road

- Noisy

- Dusty

- Millions of our tax dollars spent on this (The MTA always finds a way to make it cost so damn much)

 

So, is all of that worth it just to save commuters not even a minute of their time? It's not so much that they oppose a new station, but the construction will go on for years because the MTA is so inefficient and after it's built it will lower their quality of life and the peacefulness of their block.

 

I believe that the pros are far outweighed by the cons.

 

 

I agree 100%! These folks act like building a new subway entrance is the end of the world. They've been doing just fine with the one that they have even if it is overcrowded, but how many other stations have this problem? 23rd street on the line has the same problem and they have a few different exits, so I don't see the big deal.

[Vistausss]

@Via Gerabaldi:

 

"because it would allow for folks to use alternate trains with less of a convenience. These sorts of things are already done in other countries."

 

Yes, I noticed that when they were doing that a few months ago here in The Netherlands. The main line from Den Bosch to Utrecht was closed 'cause of those maintance works and everyone had to travel via Nijmegen. That costed me 40 minutes of extra travel time on an already 90-minutes trip.

No, that doesn't work. If it would bring in an extra 5 minutes, then idc. But 40 minutes of extra travel time on an already long trip, not working. And then I'm talking about here, but I'm sure there are many, many people in NYC that also have to travel on long routes. I don't think they will be happy with more than 5 minutes additional travel time.

 

"Yes they have smaller systems and newer infrastructure, but they also invest heavily in their infrastructure, something that we don't do enough of here."

 

You think so? Well, in most countries in Europe, the infrastructure is either old or not used like it should. In Belgium, the infrastructure is from the 30's. It all goes well, but it's not as new you suggest.

In The Netherlands, we have trains running (and those include trains from the 80's and all newer trains) that are capable of running 160-200 kmh, yet the highest speed used is 140 and that is only on one line. And why? 'Cause even though the trains allow for 160-200, the infrastructure doesn't. The whole signal system is at a max at 140 and upgrading it is now allowed by regulations of the EU. The only way that it's possible to get insanely high speeds is if we implement the EU-standard of signal system, but that would cost a fortune.

Also, the Dutch Railways closed lines over the years after not maintaining them well, saying that it would cost too much to maintain them afterwards. And we are supposed to be the best and tightest train system of Europe.

And then I'm not even talking about countries like Poland, Portugal and Czech. And there are way more which do have old or not well maintained infrastructure.

Yes, your beloved Italy and the overrated Germany have modern infrastructure. France too and Poland is investing. If you represent Europe that way, then yes, the whole infrastructure is modern. I, however, when hearing the word "Europe", take a look at at least half of the countries and then the output is that only a handfull have modern infrastructure.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

@Via Gerabaldi:

 

"because it would allow for folks to use alternate trains with less of a convenience. These sorts of things are already done in other countries."

 

Yes, I noticed that when they were doing that a few months ago here in The Netherlands. The main line from Den Bosch to Utrecht was closed 'cause of those maintance works and everyone had to travel via Nijmegen. That costed me 40 minutes of extra travel time on an already 90-minutes trip.

No, that doesn't work. If it would bring in an extra 5 minutes, then idc. But 40 minutes of extra travel time on an already long trip, not working. And then I'm talking about here, but I'm sure there are many, many people in NYC that also have to travel on long routes. I don't think they will be happy with more than 5 minutes additional travel time.

 

"Yes they have smaller systems and newer infrastructure, but they also invest heavily in their infrastructure, something that we don't do enough of here."

 

You think so? Well, in most countries in Europe, the infrastructure is either old or not used like it should. In Belgium, the infrastructure is from the 30's. It all goes well, but it's not as new you suggest.

In The Netherlands, we have trains running (and those include trains from the 80's and all newer trains) that are capable of running 160-200 kmh, yet the highest speed used is 140 and that is only on one line. And why? 'Cause even though the trains allow for 160-200, the infrastructure doesn't. The whole signal system is at a max at 140 and upgrading it is now allowed by regulations of the EU. The only way that it's possible to get insanely high speeds is if we implement the EU-standard of signal system, but that would cost a fortune.

Also, the Dutch Railways closed lines over the years after not maintaining them well, saying that it would cost too much to maintain them afterwards. And we are supposed to be the best and tightest train system of Europe.

And then I'm not even talking about countries like Poland, Portugal and Czech. And there are way more which do have old or not well maintained infrastructure.

 

When I mentioned Europe, I was really referring to select Western European countries. There is no question that the Eastern block is a joke and no one takes them seriously. LOL That's why I think it's a joke that the EU is letting all of these Eastern European countries join the EU when they'll do nothing but be a financial drain to the wealthier Western European countries (excluding Greece, Ireland and Portugal of course). Countries like Germany, France, Italy and Spain (with the four biggest economies of the EU) will be hampered for years by these disastrous decisions. :mad: I was referring to the big boys like Germany, Switzerland and France who have excellent rail systems. Of course the Scandinavian countries are quite efficient as well with their high standards of living, particularly Norway, Sweden, Finland and Denmark. :cool: :tup:

 

Italy is also somewhat efficient, but moreso in Northern Italy. My trip from Florence to Naples was a disaster. All of the trains heading South were extremely delayed. My trip from Rome to Palermo [sicily] was okay though. As far as The Netherlands goes, I wouldn't expect everything to be perfect. It's an old and small country and for what it's worth I think the system is still pretty decent there.

[Fresh Pond]

You guys are talking as if nothing at all matters because you don't live anywhere near there, so let me voice my opinion as an Upper East Sider.

 

First, let me just do a quick list:

 

Pros

- Save some commuters 30 seconds to 1 minute of time

- 68th Street entrance will be less crowded

 

Cons

- Increase in homeless population on 69th Street (Yes, even if the cops do kick them away they'll just come back. Look at the 77th Street entrance)

- Increase in the people on 69th Street

- People blocking the sidewalk trying to get in

- Increase in crime (It's much easier to snatch a purse and run down the stairs than to snatch a purse, run a block, and then down the stairs without getting noticed)

- Property values decrease from the reasons listed above

 

... and lets not forget about the construction

- Years of sidewalk closures and interference with the road

- Noisy

- Dusty

- Millions of our tax dollars spent on this (The MTA always finds a way to make it cost so damn much)

 

So, is all of that worth it just to save commuters not even a minute of their time? It's not so much that they oppose a new station, but the construction will go on for years because the MTA is so inefficient and after it's built it will lower their quality of life and the peacefulness of their block.

 

I believe that the pros are far outweighed by the cons.

 

Ok, having read through half the nonsense of thread, I think I'm ready to make my statement...

 

For starters, ITS JUST A STAIRCASE!!! Its not like they're gonna destroy the entire block and build some intermodal terminal there. The whole thing is gonna benefit everyone who uses that station for whatever purpose. As for the "increased crime,", that's just a straight up total 100% bullsh*t excuse. Its not like having the new entrance there is gonna make it automatically dangerous. As for the momeless problen, they're gonna be everywhere no matter how much you try or want to get rid of them. Like everyone else in this city, they deal with it.

 

...They're lucky the didn't borrow a page from Robert Moses and just build it and f*ck who complained

[Vistausss]

-deleted-

[Princelex]

You guys are talking as if nothing at all matters because you don't live anywhere near there, so let me voice my opinion as an Upper East Sider.

 

First, let me just do a quick list:

 

Pros

- Save some commuters 30 seconds to 1 minute of time

- 68th Street entrance will be less crowded

 

Cons

- Increase in homeless population on 69th Street (Yes, even if the cops do kick them away they'll just come back. Look at the 77th Street entrance)

- Increase in the people on 69th Street

- People blocking the sidewalk trying to get in

- Increase in crime (It's much easier to snatch a purse and run down the stairs than to snatch a purse, run a block, and then down the stairs without getting noticed)

- Property values decrease from the reasons listed above

 

... and lets not forget about the construction

- Years of sidewalk closures and interference with the road

- Noisy

- Dusty

- Millions of our tax dollars spent on this (The MTA always finds a way to make it cost so damn much)

 

So, is all of that worth it just to save commuters not even a minute of their time? It's not so much that they oppose a new station, but the construction will go on for years because the MTA is so inefficient and after it's built it will lower their quality of life and the peacefulness of their block.

 

I believe that the pros are far outweighed by the cons.

 

Yeah well the whole the disabled need access to the subway argument is valid, but the thing is I've argued that a long time ago and folks didn't care much about the disabled back then because according to some posters, there aren't that many disabled folks here in the city, which is certainly not true. I agree that it's valid, but it should always be valid not just in this case because the folks complaining happen to be affluent.

 

As far as crime is concerned, all you have to do is turn on the news to see that crime is on the rise on the subways and in the city in general. More and more folks getting robbed and more and more woman being sexually harassed in what are generally considered to be relatively safe areas (i.e. Windsor Terrace, Park Slope, etc.). There was also a spate of crimes on the Upper East Side too involving the subway where it was thought the attacker was using the subway entrances to make quick escapes after sexually attacking women.

 

 

 

 

 

I agree 100%! These folks act like building a new subway entrance is the end of the world. They've been doing just fine with the one that they have even if it is overcrowded, but how many other stations have this problem? 23rd street on the line has the same problem and they have a few different exits, so I don't see the big deal.

 

For Gorgor, that can happen anywhere but if the station is packed to the gills, then what do you do about that? Lets just say this very topic was for a different part of the city like say Fordham Road for the would you be against it too? I don't care that you don't live in the Bronx to answer, plenty of people use that station who dont live by it, just like lots of people use the station at 68th St and don't live anywhere near the Upper East Side.

 

And for ViaGarbaldi8, the people only have that entrance to use to get into 68th St so they have no other choice than to be fine with it, but if there is a way to lessen the burden by buliding another entrance, then what's the problem? I don't see one. If other stations in the city had a chance to get another entrance then that would be awesome too. The subway is meant to be convienent for God's sake.

[Princelex]

Ok, having read through half the nonsense of thread, I think I'm ready to make my statement...

 

For starters, ITS JUST A STAIRCASE!!! Its not like they're gonna destroy the entire block and build some intermodal terminal there. The whole thing is gonna benefit everyone who uses that station for whatever purpose. As for the "increased crime,", that's just a straight up total 100% bullsh*t excuse. Its not like having the new entrance there is gonna make it automatically dangerous. As for the momeless problen, they're gonna be everywhere no matter how much you try or want to get rid of them. Like everyone else in this city, they deal with it.

 

...They're lucky the didn't borrow a page from Robert Moses and just build it and f*ck who complained

 

I'm starting to think that the needs to adopt the Robert Moses way of doing things. Stuff would get done a whole lot faster if they did.

[Vistausss]

@Via Gerabaldi: You may not know, but The Netherlands has a high standard in EU-terms. Of course, in reality it's different.

And I do like you to take back your words regarding "old and small". Yes, the rail system here is sucky as hell, but we are not old. In fact, the city where I live (Almere) is the only country in the world to have 99% free bus lanes in the city. Yes, all buses run seperately from the cars in every part of the city. Now NYC is following with SBS.

 

But then again, who are you to decide that "the rail system is pretty decent"? How many times have you been here? I'm a daily customer of the Dutch Railways, so I do think I know somewhat more the details of the sucky system, as know most of the customers. Thousands of commuters here agree with me.

The bus companies here are not all good, but they do way better than the railways. In fact, Veolia is shaping up old lines here which were turned down by the Dutch Railways and bus routes by bus companies and Veolia made them more profitable then they ever were the last 20 years. Arriva is a joke, Connexxion, the largest bus company, is somewhat of a joke. In some areas they stand out very high (like my city for example), but in other areas they suck as hell.

 

And no, I was also counting in the Western part. But still, you called out "Europe" and even though most of the east block is a joke, when you call out a nation, you can't tie to a few countries. Then you should've called out those countries in the first place instead of calling out a nation.

But not the whole eastblock is a joke. In fact, Poland is part of the eastblock and they are since last year buying new, low-floor trains making it accessable for everyone.

[Gorgor]

For Gorgor, that can happen anywhere but if the station is packed to the gills, then what do you do about that? Lets just say this very topic was for a different part of the city like say Fordham Road for the would you be against it too? I don't care that you don't live in the Bronx to answer, plenty of people use that station who dont live by it, just like lots of people use the station at 68th St and don't live anywhere near the Upper East Side.

 

If it were a station in the Bronx then I couldn't care less whether they built it or not, but if the residents on the street where the proposed entrance was to be built were against it for the same reasons then I'd side with them.

 

And to whoever said that there's homeless people everywhere, then I know that you've never been to the Upper East Side. If there's a homeless person leaning against a building or business the police will make sure that they're gone, using force if necessary, but they're not as hard on those leaning against a subway entrance.

 

And for crime, it's so much easier to steal something and run down right into the subway without anyone getting a good look at you rather than having to run a block before going down. Nobody's going to rob someone on York Avenue for example and get to the subway without someone seeing their face or what they're wearing.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

@Via Gerabaldi: You may not know, but The Netherlands has a high standard in EU-terms. Of course, in reality it's different.

And I do like you to take back your words regarding "old and small". Yes, the rail system here is sucky as hell, but we are not old. In fact, the city where I live (Almere) is the only country in the world to have 99% free bus lanes in the city. Yes, all buses run seperately from the cars in every part of the city. Now NYC is following with SBS.

 

But then again, who are you to decide that "the rail system is pretty decent"? How many times have you been here? I'm a daily customer of the Dutch Railways, so I do think I know somewhat more the details of the sucky system, as know most of the customers. Thousands of commuters here agree with me.

The bus companies here are not all good, but they do way better than the railways. In fact, Veolia is shaping up old lines here which were turned down by the Dutch Railways and bus routes by bus companies and Veolia made them more profitable then they ever were the last 20 years. Arriva is a joke, Connexxion, the largest bus company, is somewhat of a joke. In some areas they stand out very high (like my city for example), but in other areas they suck as hell.

 

And no, I was also counting in the Western part. But still, you called out "Europe" and even though most of the east block is a joke, when you call out a nation, you can't tie to a few countries. Then you should've called out those countries in the first place instead of calling out a nation.

But not the whole eastblock is a joke. In fact, Poland is part of the eastblock and they are since last year buying new, low-floor trains making it accessable for everyone.

 

 

Oh get over your high and mighty self. I wasn't referring to the rail system. I was referring to the friggin country as being old and small! If you would read instead of looking to attack me, then perhaps you would see that I was complementing the rail system there considering the fact that the country IS old and small, both of which are true and facts. I don't know if you're a born and bred European or not, but you're no better than I am. Typical cocky European. This isn't the first time that you've called yourself putting me in my place and I have certainly noted it. For what it's worth, I may be born here, but I'm just as good as you are and then some and my roots are from Europe on my father's side.

 

You think you're the only one that knows a thing about Europe but then you know more than me about New York's system too when I was born and raised here... Yeah right.

[Princelex]

If it were a station in the Bronx then I couldn't care less whether they built it or not, but if the residents on the street where the proposed entrance was to be built were against it for the same reasons then I'd side with them.

 

And to whoever said that there's homeless people everywhere, then I know that you've never been to the Upper East Side. If there's a homeless person leaning against a building or business the police will make sure that they're gone, using force if necessary, but they're not as hard on those leaning against a subway entrance.

 

And for crime, it's so much easier to steal something and run down right into the subway without anyone getting a good look at you rather than having to run a block before going down. Nobody's going to rob someone on York Avenue for example and get to the subway without someone seeing their face or what they're wearing.

 

So with that theory about crime, then the shouldn't be building a 2nd Ave subway or extending the line then. I mean cops do patrol subway stations just like they do the street.

[Princelex]

Oh get over your high and mighty self. I wasn't referring to the rail system. I was referring to friggin country as being old and small! If you would read instead of looking to attack me, then perhaps you would see that I was complementing the rail system there considering the fact the country IS old and small, both of which are true. I don't know if you're a born and bread European or not, but you're no better than I am. Typical cocky European. For what it's worth, I may be born here, but I'm just as good as you are and then some and my roots are from Europe on my father's side.

You sound awfully high and mighty with this topic so why you calling this person out? lol

[Via Garibaldi 8]

You sound awfully high and mighty with this topic so why you calling this person out? lol

 

Because he always calls himself "correcting" me like he's so damn smart, especially when it comes to Europe. I'm sure he'll want to lecture me about Italy also when I'm of Italian ancestry and have lived in Italy and speak the language and am well entrenched in the culture. Then again those Dutch folks are cocky anyway. The Northern Europeans think they're so much better than everybody else. I (the American) refuse to be lectured by some Euro from the old continent.

[Vistausss]

@Via: FYI, I got some New York-roots too. Or did you think I come here just to bash you? No, the reason is that I got some New York-roots which make me bond more, want to learn more and make me want to live there.

 

Also, when did I say I know more about NY than you? How can I know more than you when you are raised there?

And to call this country old and small, well alright. But some things here are more modern than you might think. That's all I'm trying to say. Small is obvious. Traveling from north to south here is as traveling from north to south in NYC.

 

And again: I know about The Netherlands than you. I didn't say I know more about Europe as that is not true. But of course I know more about The Netherlands than you, just as you know more about the USA and Italy then I do. I've never even been to Italy, so I won't come out with that.

But you must refrain from misunderstanding "Europe" and "The Netherlands". One country doesn't make a nation.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

@Via: FYI, I got some New York-roots too. Or did you think I come here just to bash you? No, the reason is that I got some New York-roots which make me bond more, want to learn more and make me want to live there.

 

Also, when did I say I know more about NY than you? How can I know more than you when you are raised there?

And to call this country old and small, well alright. But some things here are more modern than you might think. That's all I'm trying to say. Small is obvious. Traveling from north to south here is as traveling from north to south in NYC.

 

And again: I know about The Netherlands than you. I didn't say I know more about Europe as that is not true. But of course I know more about The Netherlands than you, just as you know more about the USA and Italy then I do. I've never even been to Italy, so I won't come out with that.

But you must refrain from misunderstanding "Europe" and "The Netherlands". One country doesn't make a nation.

 

Well of course there are exceptions to the rule. I would be foolish to think otherwise. Of course there are modern parts of The Netherlands, just like there are modern parts of Italy, but overall both countries are still old and small, especially when compared to the United States. That's not an insult by any means and you should know that. And please stop with that I'm trying to clump all of Europe together because that is simply not true and you know it. I am well aware that each country is quite unique and that's what makes Europe so unique.

 

What irks me when dealing with Europeans that think they're the only ones that know a thing or two about Europe and that everybody else is just a bunch of morons. And no you don't have to say it but your incessant need to "correct me" on how I should say things when you have no idea what I know or don't know about Europe is certainly not necessary. I am far more cultured than you think I am. My profession involves working with folks from around the world on a daily basis so I'm not some ignorant American who knows nothing outside of the U.S.

 

And now that we've cleared the air back to the topic at hand... @Princelex, the fact of the matter is the cops aren't doing enough as it is. Clearly they aren't not with the rise in crime across the city and in the subway system.

[Vistausss]

About those exceptions: that was not an insult, I know. I was just trying to learn you something, just like you learn me things about NY.

 

 

"What irks me is dealing with Europeans that think they're the only ones that know a thing or two about Europe and that everybody else is just a bunch of morons."

 

Again: exceptions. I even encountered people on this forums saying that in regard to NY/USA. Those people are everywhere around the world, but not all of them are like that. Although Dutch people are cocky, just as Germans, I agree with that.

 

And I didn't say you know nothing from Europe, nor that you don't know anything from outside the U.S.A. I said that you know more about your country, as I know more about my country. As a nation, that's a different story. I obviously CAN'T even know more about the nation then you do. If we'd knew all about all countries in the nation, our heads would explode, lol.

But you must also know that even though you know more about the USA, it's not that I dunno anything. Again: I got some roots in NYC, but I also have family living in different parts of the USA and Canada. So I do know a thing or two, although you guys know more, hence the main reason I'm here.

[Princelex]

@Via: FYI, I got some New York-roots too. Or did you think I come here just to bash you? No, the reason is that I got some New York-roots which make me bond more, want to learn more and make me want to live there.

 

Also, when did I say I know more about NY than you? How can I know more than you when you are raised there?

And to call this country old and small, well alright. But some things here are more modern than you might think. That's all I'm trying to say. Small is obvious. Traveling from north to south here is as traveling from north to south in NYC.

 

And again: I know about The Netherlands than you. I didn't say I know more about Europe as that is not true. But of course I know more about The Netherlands than you, just as you know more about the USA and Italy then I do. I've never even been to Italy, so I won't come out with that.

But you must refrain from misunderstanding "Europe" and "The Netherlands". One country doesn't make a nation.

 

Well of course there are exceptions to the rule. I would be foolish to think otherwise. Of course there are modern parts of The Netherlands, just like there are modern parts of Italy, but overall both countries are still old and small, especially when compared to the United States. That's not an insult by any means and you should know that. And please stop with that I'm trying to clump all of Europe together because that is simply not true and you know it. I am well aware that each country is quite unique and that's what makes Europe so unique.

 

What irks me when dealing with Europeans that think they're the only ones that know a thing or two about Europe and that everybody else is just a bunch of morons. And no you don't have to say it but your incessant need to "correct me" on how I should say things when you have no idea what I know or don't know about Europe is certainly not necessary. I am far more cultured than you think I am. My profession involves working with folks from around the world on a daily basis so I'm not some ignorant American who knows nothing outside of the U.S.

 

And now that we've cleared the air back to the topic at hand... @Princelex, the fact of the matter is the cops aren't doing enough as it is. Clearly they aren't not with the rise in crime across the city and in the subway system.

 

None of this has anything to do with the 68th St station at all so if this is gonna go on, do it in a private message. I know I'm not a mod but I think I can speak for them in this case cause I see where this is going.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

About those exceptions: that was not an insult, I know. I was just trying to learn you something, just like you learn me things about NY.

 

 

"What irks me is dealing with Europeans that think they're the only ones that know a thing or two about Europe and that everybody else is just a bunch of morons."

 

Again: exceptions. I even encountered people on this forums saying that in regard to NY/USA. Those people are everywhere around the world, but not all of them are like that. Although Dutch people are cocky, just as Germans, I agree with that.

 

And I didn't say you know nothing from Europe, nor that you don't know anything from outside the U.S.A. I said that you know more about your country, as I know more about my country. As a nation, that's a different story. I obviously CAN'T even know more about the nation then you do. If we'd knew all about all countries in the nation, our heads would explode, lol.

But you must also know that even though you know more about the USA, it's not that I dunno anything. Again: I got some roots in NYC, but I also have family living in different parts of the USA and Canada. So I do know a thing or two, although you guys know more, hence the main reason I'm here.

 

Very good then. I'm all for learning believe me. We're all students around here. I was a student even when I was teaching Italian and Spanish. There's just a way to go about informing others that can be done without trying to makes folks feel as if they're completely about certain topics. That's all I have to say on that. As for the topic at hand, another thing that I'm sure that the will do is loud construction at all sorts of times at night which will be another red mark on the community relations "report card".

[Vistausss]

@Pricelex: Actually, it ended with my last post.

 

But you're right, it's off-topic.

TO go ontopic: I do think the is doing the right thing with that new entrance. It's obviously highly needed and alternative spots for entrances are not doable, so it's the best thing they can do.

 

The cops are kicking those bums out, so it'ś not like they just "let" them live in those entrances.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

Hey it's their neighborhood and who is the to just march in and throw entrances where ever?

 

If you like stations to be dangerously overcrowded, then maybe there shouldn't be any new exit capacity.

 

 

 

 

You call it elitist all you want, but I sure as hell would fight to keep the character and safeness of my neighborhood if I felt that building certain things would cause more crime and such to come into the neighborhood. Crime is certainly on the rise in the city and women are being assaulted mainly coming from the subways esp. of late, so they have a legitimate gripe.

 

A new subway stair isn't going to lead people to rob their apartments. The vast wealth of that block's residents is what has already led people to rob them regardless of subway access.

 

 

 

 

I doubt any of these board members on the live on the Upper East Side, so what do they care about the situation?

 

By that logic, there must be a Board member residing in every neighborhood in order for service decisions to be valid.

 

 

 

 

And for all you who are in favor of this let the come to your neighborhood and ram entrances all about. It's always OK when it isn't your neighborhood right? Friggin' hypocrites.

 

Have you ever been in that station during daylight hours?? As an alumnus of Hunter College, I have. Exiting the station can easily take 5 to 10 minutes, so there is a dire need for an additional "release valve" to drain passengers out of there.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

If you like stations to be dangerously overcrowded, then maybe there shouldn't be any new exit capacity.

 

Yeah well what station isn't dangerously overcrowded on that line in Manhattan especially?

 

 

A new subway stair isn't going to lead people to rob their apartments. The vast wealth of that block's residents is what has already led people to rob them regardless of subway access.

 

Really? Based on what stats?

 

 

 

 

 

By that logic, there must be a Board member residing in every neighborhood in order for service decisions to be valid.

 

No, the point was that the wouldn't be so quick to move if some of the decisions that were made had an effect upon where they lived. There are exceptions to the rule of course...

 

 

 

 

 

Have you ever been in that station during daylight hours?? As an alumnus of Hunter College, I have. Exiting the station can easily take 5 to 10 minutes, so there is a dire need for an additional "release valve" to drain passengers out of there.

 

 

Yes, I have plenty of times and I don't think that it's any worse than say the 77th street or 86th street station which are other stations along the on the Upper East Side.

[NX Express]

If you like stations to be dangerously overcrowded, then maybe there shouldn't be any new exit capacity.

 

Yeah well what station isn't dangerously overcrowded on that line in Manhattan especially?

 

Why should the fact that other stations are overcrowded interfere with adding needed capacity?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Why should the fact that other stations are overcrowded interfere with adding needed capacity?

 

It doesn't. My point is that the same argument could be made for many other stations along the Lexington Avenue corridor.

[East New York]

No, the point was that the wouldn't be so quick to move if some of the decisions that were made had an effect upon where they lived. There are exceptions to the rule of course...

 

 

You do know that there is some MTA personnel that live on the UES right?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

You do know that there is some MTA personnel that live on the UES right?

 

Which is why I said that there are some exceptions to the rule. Case-in-point was Lee Sander's daughter asking him not to cut her bus route... lol