Random Thoughts Thread - Nassau Inter-County Express (NICE)

[Joel Up Front]

The n15 and n16 already serve Hempstead and RFM.  Sure, there's that sliver of Rockville Centre that only the n17 goes through, but I never saw any real loads on the n17 at any point before it was discontinued.

[checkmatechamp13]

The n15 and n16 already serve Hempstead and RFM.  Sure, there's that sliver of Rockville Centre that only the n17 goes through, but I never saw any real loads on the n17 at any point before it was discontinued.

 

Actually, it doesn't even "serve" that part since it doesn't make stops over there. The three stops are HTC, Mercy Hospital, and the RVC LIRR station (I think there used to be a 4th stop up in Hempstead). So literally, all you're doing is just giving a slightly faster option from RVC to the RFM.

[Joel Up Front]

I don't know if demographics changes cost the route riders, but there are plenty of other hospitals on the island served by buses.  I'm sorry if Molloy is strict about letting people through to get to the hospital, but what can people actually do?

 

Anyway, a paratransit bus caught fire in Plainview yesterday.

[checkmatechamp13]

I don't know if demographics changes cost the route riders, but there are plenty of other hospitals on the island served by buses.  I'm sorry if Molloy is strict about letting people through to get to the hospital, but what can people actually do?

 

Anyway, a paratransit bus caught fire in Plainview yesterday.

 

I think that was just a rumor started by the hospital staff. Somebody contacted Molloy and they responded no such policy was in effect.

[R188 7857]

Thank god the person is OK.

http://abc7ny.com/news/li-bus-driver-saves-disabled-passenger-after-bus-bursts-into-flames/1379395/

[FamousNYLover]

Today on my way to Boomers Protest, I stop by at n20G bus stop at Flushing at 7:10am before taking Q44 SBS to Jamaica for 8:10 Montauk train,, I spotted n20G line for 7:20am was strecht all the way to elevator. NOT JOKE.

 

After protest and stopping at vegan friend's house with friends I know, I stop by at Babylon Station around 7:30pm and there was one senior citizen who want n19 bus back to Babylon because S20 bus was not helpful at all.

Edited June 12, 2016 by FamousNYLover

[NY1635]

NICE should advertise the n4, n22/24 as alternatives to the n6 whenever the Belmont Stakes are up. Either that, or consider the possibility of avoiding Belmont altogether by having select n6 buses use Plainfield Ave to reach Jericho Tpke for trips between 165th and Hempstead. Hemp. Turnpike between Cross Island and Elmont Road is a mess whenever the horse race is in town.

Edited June 12, 2016 by NY1635

[Joel Up Front]

There was far more attendance last year with a potential Triple Crown winner.  No Kentucky Derby winner and no TC?

[FamousNYLover]

Today on my way to Protest in South Freeport, I was at Freeport Station waiting for n36 bus and lots of Jone Beach goers were waiting for n88 bus. Some taxi drivers informed there's no bus service to beach yet. Especially only All Island Taxi or Taxi Latino were helpful to people going to be Jones Beach.

 

After that taxi gone, there were few more people waiting for n88 not knowing n88 was not running yet.

So I decided to buy magic marker at Family Dollar Store and put schedule inform for n88 bus when it begins service and I taped on construction barrier cone that was sitting peacefully by n88 bus stop.

 

Some All Island Taxi drivers give discount to Jones Beach goers.

[pranavbhat924]

Today on my way to Protest in South Freeport, I was at Freeport Station waiting for n36 bus and lots of Jone Beach goers were waiting for n88 bus. Some taxi drivers informed there's no bus service to beach yet. Especially only All Island Taxi or Taxi Latino were helpful to people going to be Jones Beach.

 

After that taxi gone, there were few more people waiting for n88 not knowing n88 was not running yet.

So I decided to buy magic marker at Family Dollar Store and put schedule inform for n88 bus when it begins service and I taped on construction barrier cone that was sitting peacefully by n88 bus stop.

 

Some All Island Taxi drivers give discount to Jones Beach goers.

Doing good to society...

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app

[FamousNYLover]

Doing good to society...

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app

Some didn't believe taxi drivers because they not familar with LI's taxi system.

[Q43LTD]

I wonder what would have happened if the never funded bus service in Nassau? Would there be no N6 LTD? 

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

I wonder what would have happened if the never funded bus service in Nassau? Would there be no N6 LTD?

There would be no bus service at all, period. Mangano ain't gonna bother with funding service, just as long as the funding from the county budget doesn't increase.

[checkmatechamp13]

There would be no bus service at all, period. Mangano ain't gonna bother with funding service, just as long as the funding from the county budget doesn't increase.

 

You do realize most of NICE's funding doesn't come from the county, right? A lot of it comes from the state and federal government. (I think around half of it is STOA, which is State Transit Operating Assistance). 

 

And there were county executives in office before Mangano.

 

As for the N6 LTD, it would exist for the simple reason that it's more efficient than running all the buses local.

Edited June 21, 2016 by checkmatechamp13

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

You do realize most of NICE's funding doesn't come from the county, right? A lot of it comes from the state and federal government. (I think around half of it is STOA, which is State Transit Operating Assistance).

 

And there were county executives in office before Mangano.

 

As for the N6 LTD, it would exist for the simple reason that it's more efficient than running all the buses local.

Yes, I know. However, if money wasn't found, there would most likely not be any contribution for Nassau County, which would probably leave their system to fall apart. It wouldn't happen overnight, but many factors would reduce the number of routes and the ridership (either directly or indirectly).

 

There havent been such serious problems between the MTA and Nassau County until Mangano stepped into office. Granted there were previous cuts and reductions in service that were significant, but nothing along the lines of cutting 1/2 of the coverage area off, and then eventually almost the whole area off from the bus.

Edited June 21, 2016 by BM5 via WOODHAVEN BL

[FamousNYLover]

I was waiting for 3:20pm n33 Long Beach Bus at Beach 21st St-Mott Av terminal and it never showed up. Properly broke down and 3:20pm n33 Far Rockaway which becomes 3:50pm n33 Long Beach bus driver told us 2:50pm n33 Far Rockaway/3:20pm n33 Long Beach never left train station for no reason.

[mac5689]

 3:20pm n33 Far Rockaway which becomes 3:50pm n33 Long Beach bus driver told us 2:50pm n33 Far Rockaway/3:20pm n33 Long Beach never left train station for no reason.

 

Maybe there was a reason that the other driver wasn't aware of?

[checkmatechamp13]

Yes, I know. However, if money wasn't found, there would most likely not be any contribution for Nassau County, which would probably leave their system to fall apart. It wouldn't happen overnight, but many factors would reduce the number of routes and the ridership (either directly or indirectly).

 

Clearly, you don't know. It's a moot point, because the state and federal government would never cut all their funding down to zero. To come up with the statement that if the wasn't there in the first place (basically, if the bus service was privatized from the start), that there would be absolutely no bus service in Nassau County, is nothing short of stupid, especially to be phrasing it with that authoritative tone. 

 

Bee Line receives significant funding from the state and federal government. Look at page 8 for the exact breakdown. In 2012, only $9 million out of their $118 million budget came from the local government. I think Nassau County is down to $2 million out of $131 million or something like that. 

 

In 2004, SCT received around 41% of its funding from local sources, which is pretty high (and probably lower now). But that still means that the majority of the funding came from sources other than local sources.

 

Would they eliminate some of the lower-ridership lines? Probably. Would they raise the fares? Probably. You'd probably see something similar to those 2011 cuts proposed. But no way would they eliminate the entire system. 

Edited June 22, 2016 by checkmatechamp13

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Which is a moot point, because the state and federal government would never cut all their funding down to zero. To come up with the statement that if the wasn't there in the first place (basically, if the bus service was privatized from the start), that there would be absolutely no bus service in Nassau County, is nothing short of stupid.

His question was if the MTA (not any private operator) didn't fund bus service. The MTA did threaten to cut all service at the end of 2011 as it was going to cut off its contract. I never said anything about the MTA not being there equaling a doomful fate for bus service in Nassau County. MTA or no MTA, it could happen, and it almost did when service was under MTA's operation. Mangano though decided to look for a private operator before years end in 2011 so thay wouldn't happen. They're doing better now with NICE, but not by much. Edited June 22, 2016 by BM5 via WOODHAVEN BL

[checkmatechamp13]

His question was if the MTA (not any private operator) didn't fund bus service. The MTA did threaten to cut all service at the end of 2011 as it was going to cut off its contract. I never said anything about the MTA not being there equaling a doomful fate for bus service in Nassau County. MTA or no MTA, it could happen, and it almost did when service was under MTA's operation. Mangano though decided to look for a private operator before years end in 2011 so thay wouldn't happen. They're doing better now with NICE, but not by much.

 

I revised my post with stats. The majority of funding doesn't come from the county for Bee Line or SCT or even NICE. 

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

I revised my post with stats. The majority of funding doesn't come from the county for Bee Line or SCT or even NICE.

While that's true and all, if Nassau didn't privitize service in time, there would be no bus service. I mean, Nassau would probably try to bring back bus service, but we both know how Mangano and Nassau County in general is hesistant in more funding, and would try to drive as many people off the bus as possible, in order to not have to pay more. It would be dumb to discontinue the whole system, but anything can happen.

 

Tioga county (upstate) had almost all its funding coming from the state. However, all service was discontinued, because ridership declined. The reason for that was because the customer base was mainly Medicaid riders, but then the state was sending them on taxis instead. The county would have to fund the bus service, but the extra cost would mean a tax levy increase which is more than allowed than what the state allows. It's an unusual case, and a fat chance of happening in Nassau, but that sounds like something Mangano would love and approve of. However, they have a contract with Veolia now, so yes they can't discontinue service overnight. When the MTA terminated its contract, Nassau could have allowed the consequences to occur, but they didn't.

Edited June 22, 2016 by BM5 via WOODHAVEN BL

[checkmatechamp13]

While that's true and all, if Nassau didn't privitize service in time, there would be no bus service. I mean, Nassau would probably try to bring back bus service, but we both know how Mangano and Nassau County in general is hesistant in more funding, and would try to drive as many people off the bus as possible, in order to not have to pay more. It would be dumb to discontinue the whole system, but anything can happen.

 

Tioga county (upstate) had almost all its funding coming from the state. However, all service was discontinued, because ridership declined. The reason for that was because the customer base was mainly Medicaid riders, but then the state was sending them on taxis instead. The county would have to fund the bus service, but the extra cost would mean a tax increase which is more than allowed than by state law. It's an unusual case, and a fat chance of happening in Nassau, but that sounds like something Mangano would love and approve of. However, they have a contract with Veolia now, so yes they can't discontinue service overnight. When the MTA terminated its contract, Nassau could have allowed the consequences to occur, but they didn't.

 

Nassau County is almost 50 times as dense as Tioga County, and has over 25 times the population. I can promise you the farebox recovery ratio in Tioga County was much lower than Nassau County's. Heck, NICE carries almost as many people as the entire population of Tioga County (they said LIB ridership was around 100,000 trips per day. I think they said NICE was in the 70,000-80,000 range. Making the generous assumption that each of those was one person making a round-trip, that's around 40,000 people using the system, whereas Tioga County's population is a tad over 50,000).

 

The state and federal government wouldn't allow a well-performing system serving that many people to shut down completely. I can promise you that.

[NY1635]

I wonder what would have happened if the never funded bus service in Nassau? Would there be no N6 LTD? 

 

As someone who lives on the island, I'd say that bus service would still exist in Nassau, especially the city lines (N1, N4,N6,N20/21,N22/24, and maybe the N26) along with the hub routes (N15,N16, N23, N27,N35/37, N40/41, N48/49, N54/55, N70/71/72, or and the N78/79). I'm unsure about the loops, pretty sure they would be discontinued at some point, the same goes for the N73/74 and N80 or 81. The same goes for the N2 and N3. The point remains that bus service will still exist in some form in Nassau without the MTA. If it didn't exist then there would be congestion on both the roadways and the LIRR, especially on the Main Line and Babylon Branch, which would be filled with people taking the commuter rail to Jamaica and then transfer for the at Archer for a trip into Manhattan.

Edited June 23, 2016 by NY1635

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Nassau County is almost 50 times as dense as Tioga County, and has over 25 times the population. I can promise you the farebox recovery ratio in Tioga County was much lower than Nassau County's. Heck, NICE carries almost as many people as the entire population of Tioga County (they said LIB ridership was around 100,000 trips per day. I think they said NICE was in the 70,000-80,000 range. Making the generous assumption that each of those was one person making a round-trip, that's around 40,000 people using the system, whereas Tioga County's population is a tad over 50,000).

 

The state and federal government wouldn't allow a well-performing system serving that many people to shut down completely. I can promise you that.

Yes, there's no doubt that with a big and populated system (even though it's losing many riders), the funding never go to zero in an instance, and that there will be some concern if bus service would all of a sudden be terminated. However, if there's no contract, then you can't run the bus service. I don't know the process of what happens to state and federal funding if that were to happen. While I don't blame the MTA for essentially giving up on Nassau, that would look bad for multiple people and parties, and that should obviously be avoided by any chance, and would most likely be avoided. It also shows that you can't trust on mainly state funding or federal funding. Doing that, as Nassau is doing right now, will really screw NICE over (I mean, they had to eliminate service to the majority of SE and a good portion of Western Nassau). It won't be screwed over to Tioga County levels, but it will show, which is what drove the MTA out of Nassau, and the service cuts as a result of STOA funds not increasing for several years (until recently). 

 

What would the state government (and the federal government) do though, if by any chance, Nassau did not find a private operator in time, and the MTA terminated its contract? What would the be the consequences of that (besides the fact that there would be no bus service)?

Edited June 23, 2016 by BM5 via WOODHAVEN BL

[checkmatechamp13]

What would the state government (and the federal government) do though, if by any chance, Nassau did not find a private operator in time, and the MTA terminated its contract? What would the be the consequences of that (besides the fact that there would be no bus service)?

 

They'd probably be looking for a contractor concurrently. For example, NYSDOT funds the White Plains-Poughkeepsie route (see the note at the bottom of the page) and the Orange-Westchester Link (bottom of the 2nd page)