Random Thoughts Thread - Nassau Inter-County Express (NICE)

[NY1635]

According to Newsday, n14/17 and the n80/81 will be back by June. The n2/8, n51, n62, and n73/74 will be back by September. I'm starting to wonder what's in Massapequa that requires both the n80 and n81 to come back.

 

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/transportation/nice-bus-cuts-to-be-mostly-restored-in-june-official-says-1.11611480

Edited March 25, 2016 by NY1635

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

According to Newsday, n14/17 and the n80/81 will be back by June. The n2/8, n51, n62, and n73/74 will be back by September. I'm starting to wonder what's in Massapequa that requires both the n80 and n81 to come back.

 

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/transportation/nice-bus-cuts-to-be-mostly-restored-in-june-official-says-1.11611480

The n14 did not need to be restored in any way shape or form. Another problem I have is that the more necessary routes won't come back until September. The n17 could've stayed eliminated if they rerouted some n16's around Mercy instead. The n81 should be brought back, but not the n80. The n81's impact on a coverage basis would be worse than the n80 (if they were eliminated individually), and I feel more people rode the n81 anyways. I already mentioned how to structure the n2/8 before, and I agree with bringing back service in that area of North Valley Stream and Elmont.

 

The n51 is a double-edged sword. You need it for coverage, and people were affected by the change, but many riders had alternatives too. I don't see the need for bringing back the n62 either. They could've just restructured the n36 a little bit and add an extra bus on that line if necessary. The n73 should be come back without the Cornflower Rd Variation, and the n74 should remain eliminated.

 

I would've considered bringing back the n50 way before most of the routes on the returning list for coverage purposes. The n46 can remain eliminated. Overall, this shows how unorganized NICE is. NICE even said the n14 is the poorest performing route and the least efficient, yet they're bringing it back. Let All-Island Taxi run the service as they currently are doing. I don't get this logic. The routes I would've brought back were the n73 and n81 in June, in addition to the n2 and n50 in September. The rest should've just stayed as they are, dead.

Edited March 25, 2016 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[FamousNYLover]

The n14 did not need to be restored in any way shape or form. Another problem I have is that the more necessary routes won't come back until September. The n17 could've stayed eliminated if they rerouted some n16's around Mercy instead. The n81 should be brought back, but not the n80. The n81's impact on a coverage basis would be worse than the n80 (if they were eliminated individually), and I feel more people rode the n81 anyways. I already mentioned how to structure the n2/8 before, and I agree with bringing back service in that area of North Valley Stream and Elmont.

 

The n51 is a double-edged sword. You need it for coverage, and people were affected by the change, but many riders had alternatives too. I don't see the need for bringing back the n62 either. They could've just restructured the n36 a little bit and add an extra bus on that line if necessary. The n73 should be come back without the Cornflower Rd Variation, and the n74 should remain eliminated.

 

I would've considered bringing back the n50 way before most of the routes on the returning list for coverage purposes. The n46 can remain eliminated. Overall, this shows how unorganized NICE is. NICE even said the n14 is the poorest performing route and the least efficient, yet they're bringing it back. Let All-Island Taxi run the service as they currently are doing. I don't get this logic. The routes I would've brought back were the n73 and n81 in June, in addition to the n2 and n50 in September. The rest should've just stayed as they are, dead.

I think All Island Taxi only did 30-day test period as n14 bus.

I also think n14, n17, n62 should be handed over to All Island Taxi//Taxi Latino.

n14: All Island Taxi $4 one way.

n17: All Island Taxi $4 one way.

n62: Taxi Lationo/All Island Taxi: $4 one way.

Edited March 25, 2016 by FamousNYLover

[NY1635]

The n14 did not need to be restored in any way shape or form. Another problem I have is that the more necessary routes won't come back until September. The n17 could've stayed eliminated if they rerouted some n16's around Mercy instead. The n81 should be brought back, but not the n80. The n81's impact on a coverage basis would be worse than the n80 (if they were eliminated individually), and I feel more people rode the n81 anyways. I already mentioned how to structure the n2/8 before, and I agree with bringing back service in that area of North Valley Stream and Elmont.

 

The n51 is a double-edged sword. You need it for coverage, and people were affected by the change, but many riders had alternatives too. I don't see the need for bringing back the n62 either. They could've just restructured the n36 a little bit and add an extra bus on that line if necessary. The n73 should be come back without the Cornflower Rd Variation, and the n74 should remain eliminated.

 

I would've considered bringing back the n50 way before most of the routes on the returning list for coverage purposes. The n46 can remain eliminated. Overall, this shows how unorganized NICE is. NICE even said the n14 is the poorest performing route and the least efficient, yet they're bringing it back. Let All-Island Taxi run the service as they currently are doing. I don't get this logic. The routes I would've brought back were the n73 and n81 in June, in addition to the n2 and n50 in September. The rest should've just stayed as they are, dead.

 

The article also stated that some of the lines being brought back will use smaller buses and have their travel paths altered. I don't know what was the rationale for reviving the n14 and n17. but them being paired together sounds like NICE might consider combining them into one route. I suspect that the n2/8, n51, and n73/74 are being brought back in September because that's when the school semester begins.

[checkmatechamp13]

They could've just restructured the n36 a little bit and add an extra bus on that line if necessary. The n73 should be come back without the Cornflower Rd Variation, and the n74 should remain eliminated.

 

Adding an extra bus....well the n62 only used one bus, so at that point, you might as well just flat-out bring it back.

 

The thing with these feeder shuttles is that they're outdated and don't reflect current travel patterns. A little shuttle timed with the LIRR might've made sense back in the day, but nowadays, your best shot is probably combining the n62 with either the n43 or n40/41 (likely the n43 since it goes to the RFM and connects with most of the same routes the n40/41 connect with)

[Hound]

They're bringing back the 14 & 17, but not the 50? Are they kidding? Who made these decisions?

[NY1635]

They're bringing back the 14 & 17, but not the 50? Are they kidding? Who made these decisions?

 

The county was the one who made the decision to bring most of the routes back. I remember a few Nassau Dems coming up with ways to prevent the cuts back in January, and one of them mentioning the sales tax. NICE had stated on multiple occasions that they would use the money to add service onto the busier routes instead of bringing the low ridership ones back. The rationale for not bringing the n46 or n50 back was that they alternatives, (or assuming that Newbridge Road south of East Meadow to Bellmore doesn't need service)

[B35 via Church]

~ June restorations:

n14/17 

n80/81

 

~ September restorations:

n2/8

n51

n62

n73/74

===========================

 

* n14 slash n17? So somehow these two routes are going to be related..... I doubt they'll be combined, but who the heck knows at this point...

Regardless, I don't think either of these routes should come back.... If service to Mercy is necessary, again, run some number of 15's along Peninsula & call it a day..... That's addt'l funds that won't have to be allocated to two lowly used routes, right there....

 

* n80/81... I'm assuming both of these routes will be brought back & not some combo of the two routes into one route

(e/g. [sunrise Mall to LIRR Hicksville via N. Broadway > Boundary > S. Broadway], or

[sunrise Mall to LIRR Hicksville via Hicksville rd > Stewart ave], or whatever, but you get the point...)

 

The consensus seems to be that just the 81 should be brought back, and I'm in agreeance with that.... The 81 was more useful for more people.....

 

* n2/8 should stay defunct; I was never fond of that combination from the beginning...

This won't happen, but I think a route connecting Elmont/Valley Stream that enters Queens SOUTH of Hempstead Tpke would be much more beneficial than reverting this route back.... The Q4 into Nassau is often brought up as a solution, but the problem I have with that is the ride into Queens would be much too slow for Nassau patrons (as that route carries what, 10k riders/day or w/e)... A NICE route won't have to make near as many stops w/i Queens as the Q4 does.....

 

* n51 should also stay defunct AFAIC... Instead of wasting funds & resources on this route (which was lowly used along Merrick rd, esp. the further south you go; periodic waning usage been a trend with that route for years now - before Veolia even took over operations in the county!!), use the same resources you would to run these buses, on some other routes instead.....

 

* n62, I have to agree with Checkmate & it's what I've been thinking about for quite some time anyway (pre-NICE).... But instead of the 43, I would be more prone to extending either the 40 or the 41 (the plan also involves the 36 & other changes to the 40 & 41, so I'm not going to go into detail rigtht now).....

 

*n73/74... I get the whole coverage issue, but I was never fond of these 2 routes... I don't know if usage improved since veolia took over, but before the takeover, I would almost always see buses carrying straight... air - No matter where (what intersection/point) along the route..... I would even see more people utilizing the 80 - not counting anyone heading to/from Sunrise specifically.... To me, that says enough....

 

For all I care, the both of these could stay defunct....  I'd rather bring back the 50.

[Amtrak7]

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/transportation/nice-some-restored-bus-routes-to-require-reservations-1.11640522

 

Key points:

• n2/n8 coming back as "Flexibuses" - demand response. On demand stops would include some stops originally on the regular route, plus new locations such as Northwell Franklin Hospital
• Demand response requests are to be made through the AbleRide call center - call center capacity issues were raised by rider advocates
• "In another first, NICE plans to bring back eliminated routes in RVC, Freeport, and Wantagh-Hicksville" as 'community shuttles' that would pick up and drop off riders at stops during peak hours, but be used exclusively for door-to-door Able-Ride service for the disabled during middays and evenings"

That last one is interesting. Obviously they're referring to n14, n62, n73. The second half of the sentence though essentially means ordinary Able-Ride service. I think it's just a clever way of saying "we're just restoring peak service and expanding the Able-Ride coverage area".

[NY1635]

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/transportation/nice-some-restored-bus-routes-to-require-reservations-1.11640522

 

Key points:

• n2/n8 coming back as "Flexibuses" - demand response. On demand stops would include some stops originally on the regular route, plus new locations such as Northwell Franklin Hospital
• Demand response requests are to be made through the AbleRide call center - call center capacity issues were raised by rider advocates
• "In another first, NICE plans to bring back eliminated routes in RVC, Freeport, and Wantagh-Hicksville" as 'community shuttles' that would pick up and drop off riders at stops during peak hours, but be used exclusively for door-to-door Able-Ride service for the disabled during middays and evenings"

That last one is interesting. Obviously they're referring to n14, n62, n73. The second half of the sentence though essentially means ordinary Able-Ride service. I think it's just a clever way of saying "we're just restoring peak service and expanding the Able-Ride coverage area".

 

How are they going to get the n2/8 to serve Franklin Hospital?

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

So, this service is essentially similar to the way PRTC in the Washington Metro area runs its buses (except without the exclusively for the disabled during middays and evenings)

 

http://www.prtctransit.org/local-bus/index.html(Just In Case anyone wants to know about PRTC)

[checkmatechamp13]

That last one is interesting. Obviously they're referring to n14, n62, n73. The second half of the sentence though essentially means ordinary Able-Ride service. I think it's just a clever way of saying "we're just restoring peak service and expanding the Able-Ride coverage area".

 

Able-Ride already covers most of (the denser parts of) Nassau County. And they said that they weren't reducing the size of the Able-Ride area when they made those cuts.

 

But yeah, it looks like they're using this as a way to reduce some demand for Able-Ride by encouraging the seniors to use the deviated fixed routes. (Or alternatively, you can look at it as improving efficiency of Able-Ride by allowing regular passengers to use it in certain areas).

 

 

How are they going to get the n2/8 to serve Franklin Hospital?

 

Probably go up Rockaway Parkway to the hospital, then go back across Hendrickson to Fletcher.

[Joel Up Front]

NG 1780 was on the side of Merrick Road earlier with its blinkers on near the WH tracks.  I don't think it was in service because I didn't see anyone nearby.

[trainfan22]

I was watching one of Piney's videos and apparently the XN40s NICE have are bottoming out cause NICE spec'd them too low to the ground... yikes.

 

 

I REALLY hope its an spec issue cause if there's nothing much New Flyer could do to raise the height on the XN40s without drastically altering the design then these buses are gonna have a rough tenure in NYCT...

[Burrstone]

Any word on the eliminated portion of the n19?  No word in the recent announcement while the fate other routes have been revealed.  When the plans were made to eliminate routes there were no signs at stops informing riders of the elimination (or what portion).  Only a sign at Freeport.   I hear many disabled residents living in an apartment on Carmen's road think they may have intentionally been left in the dark so they wouldn't know to go to the meeting and object.  I'm starting to think they were right. 

[NY1635]

Any word on the eliminated portion of the n19?  No word in the recent announcement while the fate other routes have been revealed.  When the plans were made to eliminate routes there were no signs at stops informing riders of the elimination (or what portion).  Only a sign at Freeport.   I hear many disabled residents living in an apartment on Carmen's road think they may have intentionally been left in the dark so they wouldn't know to go to the meeting and object.  I'm starting to think they were right. 

 

NICE isn't going to restore that portion of the n19 unless they get the money for that portion, or lawmakers raise a fuss about it.

Edited April 4, 2016 by NY1635

[DetSMART45]

Able-Ride already covers most of (the denser parts of) Nassau County. And they said that they weren't reducing the size of the Able-Ride area when they made those cuts.

 

But yeah, it looks like they're using this as a way to reduce some demand for Able-Ride by encouraging the seniors to use the deviated fixed routes. (Or alternatively, you can look at it as improving efficiency of Able-Ride by allowing regular passengers to use it in certain areas).

Able-Ride shouldn't necessarily be affected by the cuts, since a lot of funding comes from Fed and state sources, plus they can use JARC funding.  ADA is a touchy thing, one that the Feds will enforce, even if it means money from fixed-route needs to be shifted toward paratransit.  Technically, all areas not served by fixed-route (certain mile and scheduling requirements apply dependent upon ADA or 65+/disabled service type) are "supposed" to have service at least to get customers to fixed-route while it operates.

 

With the aging populations, funding for "supplemental service" will have more and more requirements placed on it.

[DetSMART45]

I was watching one of Piney's videos and apparently the XN40s NICE have are bottoming out cause NICE spec'd them too low to the ground... yikes.

 

 

I REALLY hope its an spec issue cause if there's nothing much New Flyer could do to raise the height on the XN40s without drastically altering the design then these buses are gonna have a rough tenure in NYCT...

Saw some "close calls" with the DDOT Xcelsiors, but that was due to seriously tore-up road surface.  We've got some pretty hole-y areas that see a lot of bus traffic, and they're doing pretty good.  (And DDOT drivers, in general, have blinders on when it comes to messed-up road surfaces, and don't usually slow down to go easy over bumps.  But even with the old D40LFs, you don't get jolted from your seat or anything even though they're over 10 years old when that occurs.)

[Mtatransit]

http://nicebus.com/Passenger-Information/Schedule-Changes.aspx                                                                                                                      Restoration hidden inside NICE bus website

[checkmatechamp13]

Able-Ride shouldn't necessarily be affected by the cuts, since a lot of funding comes from Fed and state sources, plus they can use JARC funding.  ADA is a touchy thing, one that the Feds will enforce, even if it means money from fixed-route needs to be shifted toward paratransit.  Technically, all areas not served by fixed-route (certain mile and scheduling requirements apply dependent upon ADA or 65+/disabled service type) are "supposed" to have service at least to get customers to fixed-route while it operates.

 

With the aging populations, funding for "supplemental service" will have more and more requirements placed on it.

 

The lower fare for the community shuttle vs. Able Ride will likely naturally reduce demand, thus allowing them to save some money on paratransit. The Able-Ride fare is $3.75 vs. $1.35 for the senior/disabled fare.

[NY1635]

http://nicebus.com/Passenger-Information/Schedule-Changes.aspx                                                                                                                      Restoration hidden inside NICE bus website

 

I wonder if these community shuttles will be put on the map. Is there a reason why the n80/81 doesn't get the shuttle treatment?

Edited April 7, 2016 by NY1635

[Burrstone]

 *

Edited April 7, 2016 by Burrstone

[Burrstone]

http://nicebus.com/Passenger-Information/Schedule-Changes.aspx                                                                                                                      Restoration hidden inside NICE bus website

 

Thanks for the link, I searched and searched last week, couldn't find anything...

 

It sucks they will not restore the n19.  I rode it a few times just to check it out and feel bad fir anyone who has to travel between the mall and Montauk HWY.  For starters the service has 90 minute headways and they don't follow the schedule.  IMO someone would have to be retired or collecting SSDI having to go to the doctor or shopping once and a while.  If some who had a job used it they'd probably lose their job unless they have a very understanding boss .

 

NICE did leave a bunch elderly and mentally handicapped on Carman Mill Road stranded.  I know a lot of them go to a day program in Freeport.  The s20 service goes no where near it and it is in Nassau County.  If the LIBRU was worth anything they'd rent a van or work with these people's counselors to get them to the next NICE meeting so their voices can be heard.

[Burrstone]

What it all really boils down to, AGAIN, is that Nassau refuses to properly fund NICE bus and give those in the community who need it a ride.  NICE has a $7 million shortfall, the county has a $45 million dollar surplus and only gives NICE $3 million less than half the shortfall to run at a minimum.  What else are they doing with this surplus?  Instead they'd rather see the elderly and mentally handicapped walk 2-3 miles each day.  It makes me sick!

[DetSMART45]

The lower fare for the community shuttle vs. Able Ride will likely naturally reduce demand, thus allowing them to save some money on paratransit. The Able-Ride fare is $3.75 vs. $1.35 for the senior/disabled fare.

Not too out of line.  SMART Connector runs $4.00 full fare, $1.00 for seniors/disabled.  ADA is $3.00 flat rate.  Most full fare use it to connect to fixed-route (and vice versa), so the maximum someone would pay is $4.25 with a transfer one way.  Seniors/disabled/ADA get free transfers anyways.  Our community shuttles -- buses owned by SMART, municipalities operate them on their own schedules -- do not have transfer/fare privileges to fixed-route or Connector/ADA.