Second Avenue Subway Discussion

[Via Garibaldi 8]

If someone wants to get from Riverdale to Co-Op City, I can tell you right now with every bit of the dark void that is my soul (if there is such a thing) that they would know better than to go ALL the way down to 125th Street. Just take two buses. Call it a day. Save an hour.

lol You make it sound so easy and so quick.  The reality is that any trip from Riverdale to anywhere in the East or Northern part of the Bronx is a LONG commute (unless you're driving), well over an hour each way because of how isolated Riverdale is.  I go into Manhattan from Riverdale to get to the East Bronx all of the time. It is MUCH easier and often times faster if you time things right.  Trips to Parkchester is the BxM1/BxM2 to the BxM6.  The BxM6 is a 15 minute ride to the Upper East Side where I can then transfer to the BxM1 or BxM2 and be home in about 20 - 30 minutes.  

 

A trip to Co-Op City would be the BxM1/BxM2 to the BxM7 for me because even if it is two local buses, the Bx10 is extremely slow and unreliable, so you could easily be looking at an hour alone with just that bus depending on when you took the trip then the ride on the Bx28 from Norwood which is basically the beginning of the line.  Supposedly a trip to Co-Op City to Riverdale would be roughly an hour and 20 minutes with the local buses during off-peak periods, but there are some trips using Google planner that I take that actually refer you to the express buses because there are too many transfers, or the trip is faster with them. 

 

For what it's worth, any trip in the Bronx that is east-west or vice versa is not an easy commute which is why the Bx12 is always packed because it is one of the few east-west routes in the Bronx.  The others generally meander while traveling east-west because of how the borough is laid out.  I just came from Parkchester earlier and had a meeting in the South Bronx.  My trip would be the BxM6 with a transfer to the BxM4. With the train I would have to go to 125th street anyway to change for the then either endure a long walk or make another transfer to a bus to finish my commute.

Edited January 15, 2017 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Caelestor]

Here are some turnstile counts from Twitter. Ridership has been steadily growing since opening, reaching 109k last Friday.

 

[TransitJusticeForAll]

Here is the and Select Rush Hour Trains performing Second Avenue Subway Line Action, stopping at the existing Lexington Avenue-63rd Street, and newly 72nd, 86th, and 96th Street stations along Second Avenue. The serves the new corridor at all times. Some Trains serves the corridor during rush hours. Service starts at Coney Island-Stillwell Avenue, signing up as a Train via Sea Beach/4th Avenue Express in Brooklyn, skipping DeKalb Ave, heading up towards 96th St/2nd Ave. At 96th St, Trains via Sea Beach turns into the via Sea Beach, back to Brooklyn. 

 

Please Enjoy The Viewing????????????

 

[Wallyhorse]

Here are some turnstile counts from Twitter. Ridership has been steadily growing since opening, reaching 109k last Friday.

 

That's good.  I suspect the week of January 23 will be the first true test because there are no holidays that week and everyone should be back from vacation (the first two weeks of January are a big vacation time for many, especially those who don't have kids and especially those who have to work the week between Christmas and New Year's.

[CenSin]

That's good.  I suspect the week of January 23 will be the first true test because there are no holidays that week and everyone should be back from vacation (the first two weeks of January are a big vacation time for many, especially those who don't have kids and especially those who have to work the week between Christmas and New Year's.

No holidays? Chinese New Year is on that week. I don’t know how that affects the Upper East Side, but a lot of Chinese-run businesses will be closed.

[CenSin]

I’m surprised at how quickly the train plows through the switches! (See 19:30).

[Dj Hammers]

I once heard that there was an electrical room connecting the two lines.

Still, it would be a long passage.

The 3 avenue mezzanine connects to some ancillary rooms which also provide access to the upper level of the Lexington Ave line tunnels under 63rd st. There's no infrastructure connection down to the 59st complex

[checkmatechamp13]

For what it's worth, any trip in the Bronx that is east-west or vice versa is not an easy commute which is why the Bx12 is always packed because it is one of the few east-west routes in the Bronx.  The others generally meander while traveling east-west because of how the borough is laid out.  I just came from Parkchester earlier and had a meeting in the South Bronx.  My trip would be the BxM6 with a transfer to the BxM4. With the train I would have to go to 125th street anyway to change for the then either endure a long walk or make another transfer to a bus to finish my commute.

 

Or just take the to Hunts Point Avenue for the Bx6. 

[Wallyhorse]

No holidays? Chinese New Year is on that week. I don’t know how that affects the Upper East Side, but a lot of Chinese-run businesses will be closed.

I was referring to Federal Holidays and Inauguration Day.  Chinese New Year is not one of those holidays observed by schools and most non-Chinese businesses.

[Brooklyn]

Keep in mind that I'm talking about the original construction of the IND back in the 1930s. If the 53 St Line was 4-tracked from the start, the 63 St Line would lose a lot of its function, namely to add more capacity on the 6 Ave local tracks. Instead, the 63 St Line probably would have been a simple extension of the Broadway express tracks through Roosevelt Island and into Queens, likely onto Northern Blvd to relieve the Flushing Line. I'm uncertain if any wyes between the SAS and the 63 St Line would be built.

 

The QBL local tracks would have continued onto the 8 Ave tracks, and the QBL express tracks would have continued under 6 Ave. All QBL express trains travel via 6 Ave and the Culver Line to Church Ave (and in the future Coney Island), half of which run express in Brooklyn. The QBL local trains terminate at Hudson Terminal as planned. The 8 Ave trains are unchanged from today's . The IND would run

• 8 Ave Exp / Fulton Exp
• 8 Ave Local / Fulton Local
• Concourse Local / CPW Local / 6 Ave Exp
• Concourse Exp / CPW Exp / 6 Ave Exp
• 8 Ave Local / QBL Local, runs rush hour peak direction express between Queens Plaza and Roosevelt Ave
• Culver Local / 6 Ave Local / QBL Exp, (FF) runs express in Brooklyn
• Crosstown

The   terminate at 34 St until either the extension into Williamsburg or via the Manhattan Bridge are built.

 

I think the 6 Ave Line shouldn't have been built because it duplicates PATH, as well as the 7 Ave and Broadway Lines. It also cost a ton to build since PATH, the 6 Ave elevated, the NEC tracks, and existing subway lines were all in the way. Instead of the 6 Ave Line, I would have extended PATH up 6 Ave and have it curve west under 57 St, where it would connect with the Columbus Circle and 57 St - 7 Ave complexes. The money can be redirected to an actual East Side trunk line, namely SAS south of 53 St.

 

Interesting....

 

My idea was to keep service the same for the most part, just build a higher capacity terminal at WTC (with a walkway for the transfer to Fulton st--that way, there'll always be 8th av service at Fulton st in case Cranberry shuts down).

 

I would also rebuild 71- Continental to turn more TPH (at least 26).

 

EE service would run from WTC to 71st Continental, all local via 8th av, 53rd st and QBL.

The E--WTC to 179th or Jamaica Center via 8th av express and QBL express

 

The G would go back to 71st Continental.

 

I'd probably also add a two track lower level at 34th st (SB) to terminate some local trains.

[Around the Horn]

I was referring to Federal Holidays and Inauguration Day.  Chinese New Year is not one of those holidays observed by schools and most non-Chinese businesses.

 

Chinese New Year is, as of last school year (2015-16), observed by schools now (also Eid; although I don't think thats coming up any time soon)

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Or just take the to Hunts Point Avenue for the Bx6.

 

You're assuming you know where I would be going. Different locations in the South Bronx....

[checkmatechamp13]

You're assuming you know where I would be going. Different locations in the South Bronx....

 

If it's within walking distance of the Grand Concourse (which is why you would be taking the BxM4), the connects to both the Bx1 & Bx2 at 138th & 3rd (as well as the Bx21 & Bx32 as a bonus). You can also take the Bx4/4A to Southern Blvd for the Bx11/35 if you're around the 167th or 170th Street areas.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

If it's within walking distance of the Grand Concourse (which is why you would be taking the BxM4), the connects to both the Bx1 & Bx2 at 138th & 3rd (as well as the Bx21 & Bx32 as a bonus). You can also take the Bx4/4A to Southern Blvd for the Bx11/35 if you're around the 167th or 170th Street areas.

Quite frankly I tend to walk and not think about it so that depends on what you consider "walking distance". I care about the least amount of transfers, so I wouldn't even begin to tell you about any local buses really. I've only used a handful of Bronx local buses. In any event I've looked at some of the suggestions online for travel and with the time involved it's a wash as far as I'm concerned.

[CenSin]

I was referring to Federal Holidays and Inauguration Day.  Chinese New Year is not one of those holidays observed by schools and most non-Chinese businesses.

It is observed by NYC schools now, although this year it falls on a weekend, so it makes no difference anyway. Then there’s the practice of cutting school with full blessings of the parents, which was prevalent before the holiday was officially recognized.

Edited January 16, 2017 by CenSin

[Lance]

Would you agree in retrospect, one mistake was not extending the 63rd Street tunnel to go all the way across to the CPW/8th Avenue line?  If that could have been done, it would have come in very handy since then, you could have used it when needed for the to go across 63rd after a stop at Columbus Circle or when necessary send trains from 8th Avenue via the SAS to currently 96th/2nd for example.

 

That and extending Phase 2 of the SAS all the way across 125 (with a connection to the 8th Avenue Line at St. Nicholas) is something that needs to be done in my opinion.

 

 

Absolutely not. Building some backup infrastructure for emergencies is one thing; building a complex, redundant, grade separated junction in that wouldn't be used in service would only sink the business case made to the FTA at the time and the project just wouldn't have been done at all. The project already had its costs blow out of proportion.

I noticed Wallyhorse likes to propose these high cost/little use so-called "redundancies" that are in reality, completely unnecessary. Previously, it was the idea of creating a connection between the oft-proposed 125th Street crosstown and the Concourse line so that in the event service cannot operate along Central Park West for whatever reason, there can still be through service on the . While a nice idea on paper, it fails to take into consideration how often such a connection would actually be used, which I'm sure would be very little. The same applies to the idea quoted above. Not considering the Fix and Fortify work being done now, how often would Transit need to use an 8th Avenue/63rd Street connection? It's nice to have redundancies in place. However, those redundancies must have a primary reason to exist even outside of the random reroute.

[LTA1992]

lol You make it sound so easy and so quick. The reality is that any trip from Riverdale to anywhere in the East or Northern part of the Bronx is a LONG commute (unless you're driving), well over an hour each way because of how isolated Riverdale is. I go into Manhattan from Riverdale to get to the East Bronx all of the time. It is MUCH easier and often times faster if you time things right. Trips to Parkchester is the BxM1/BxM2 to the BxM6. The BxM6 is a 15 minute ride to the Upper East Side where I can then transfer to the BxM1 or BxM2 and be home in about 20 - 30 minutes.

 

A trip to Co-Op City would be the BxM1/BxM2 to the BxM7 for me because even if it is two local buses, the Bx10 is extremely slow and unreliable, so you could easily be looking at an hour alone with just that bus depending on when you took the trip then the ride on the Bx28 from Norwood which is basically the beginning of the line. Supposedly a trip to Co-Op City to Riverdale would be roughly an hour and 20 minutes with the local buses during off-peak periods, but there are some trips using Google planner that I take that actually refer you to the express buses because there are too many transfers, or the trip is faster with them.

 

For what it's worth, any trip in the Bronx that is east-west or vice versa is not an easy commute which is why the Bx12 is always packed because it is one of the few east-west routes in the Bronx. The others generally meander while traveling east-west because of how the borough is laid out. I just came from Parkchester earlier and had a meeting in the South Bronx. My trip would be the BxM6 with a transfer to the BxM4. With the train I would have to go to 125th street anyway to change for the then either endure a long walk or make another transfer to a bus to finish my commute.

It is easy. You just don't know Bronx bus routes as you stated in a later post. Depending on where you were in Parkchester, two buses and a walk is all you need. Instead, you chose a more expensive side route because local buses are for the poor. The same can be said for a Co-Op City to Riverdale route.

 

It IS easy. If you know what you're doing. I mean, all this technology and people still can't find their way?

 

Sent from my N9132 using Tapatalk

[Via Garibaldi 8]

It is easy. You just don't know Bronx bus routes as you stated in a later post. Depending on where you were in Parkchester, two buses and a walk is all you need. Instead, you chose a more expensive side route because local buses are for the poor. The same can be said for a Co-Op City to Riverdale route.

 

It IS easy. If you know what you're doing. I mean, all this technology and people still can't find their way?

 

Sent from my N9132 using Tapatalk

It's cute that you speculate about a commute that you don't even know.  I know my way around just fine and my total commute each way between the connections between Riverdale and Parkchester is roughly 45-50 minutes.  Any other set up would easily be over an hour each way, so spare me with your knowledge.   I pay my own way and save 20 - 25 minutes each way, so I don't need you of all people telling me about how I should travel.  I also don't understand how you can speculate about about how an extension of the SAS crosstown to 125th wouldn't benefit commuters?  How do you draw such a conclusion?

Edited January 16, 2017 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Wallyhorse]

It is observed by NYC schools now, although this year it falls on a weekend, so it makes no difference anyway. Then there’s the practice of cutting school with full blessings of the parents, which was prevalent before the holiday was officially recognized.

That's interesting.  New York has to be the only major city in the US that observes Chinese New Year as a school holiday (along with the Muslim Holiday in September).  

 

Point is, most people who work in Fortune 500 companies, the government, etc. are back at work, which is why I think the week of January 23 will be the first true test for the because many workers who don't have kids and have to work over Christmas and New Year's take vacations in the first part of January.  

[LTA1992]

It's cute that you speculate about a commute that you don't even know.  I know my way around just fine and my total commute each way between the connections between Riverdale and Parkchester is roughly 45-50 minutes.  Any other set up would easily be over an hour each way, so spare me with your knowledge.   I pay my own way and save 20 - 25 minutes each way, so I don't need you of all people telling me about how I should travel.  I also don't understand how you can speculate about about how an extension of the SAS crosstown to 125th wouldn't benefit commuters?  How do you draw such a conclusion?

You've only used a handful of Bronx local buses. One can make an educated guess and say you don't know how to use other routes too well. The point I was trying to make is that The Bronx should not be shafted on adequate transportation because a few people can't use already alternatives to cross The Bronx. 125th Street is not needed. Especially if the first part of it is gonna be 6 Billion.

 

Secondly, I've explained my reasoning over and over. As recently as the few days since Phase One opened. Wanna see them, go back in the thread.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

You've only used a handful of Bronx local buses. One can make an educated guess and say you don't know how to use other routes too well. The point I was trying to make is that The Bronx should not be shafted on adequate transportation because a few people can't use already alternatives to cross The Bronx. 125th Street is not needed. Especially if the first part of it is gonna be 6 Billion.

 

Secondly, I've explained my reasoning over and over. As recently as the few days since Phase One opened. Wanna see them, go back in the thread.

They can make all of the educated guesses they want.  I will use the mode of transportation that I prefer since I'm spending my money to do so.  My time is valuable and I prefer to ride in comfort so I do what works for me.  The express buses that I use I know inside out, and I also usually have stops to make in the city anyway, so that set up works for me.  

 

Given how many people could benefit from such a set up along 125th, I see no need to deprive them of that.

[RailRunRob]

They can make all of the educated guesses they want. I will use the mode of transportation that I prefer since I'm spending my money to do so. My time is valuable and I prefer to ride in comfort so I do what works for me. The express buses that I use I know inside out, and I also usually have stops to make in the city anyway, so that set up works for me.

 

Given how many people could benefit from such a set up along 125th, I see no need to deprive them of that.

 

Just for arguments sake. Ride whatever you like it's your money you spend it the way you want to I don't think we'd care if you rode a carpet you earned it.

I just think his point is there might be another perspective on the matter besides your own. Sometimes you got to submit to the fact that somebody else may view the world a bit differently. Without that you're not gonna take any new suggestions in. Without submission your already on defense. Just my opinion!

 

 

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[Via Garibaldi 8]

Just for arguments sake. Ride whatever you like it's your money you spend it the way you want to I don't think we'd care if you rode a carpet you earned it.

I just think his point is there might be another perspective on the matter besides your own. Sometimes you got to submit to the fact that somebody else may view the world a bit differently. Without that you're not gonna take any new suggestions in. Without submission your already on defense. Just my opinion!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app

We all have different perspectives.  That's a given.  I just question how he's come to such a conclusion #1 and #2 how he automatically thinks that what he states works for everyone else and if it doesn't there must be something wrong with them?   Traveling East-West in the Bronx in general is not easy because of how the streets are laid out, so quite frankly, the "easiest" way would be to simply drive, and even with that there is meandering involved.  Going back to SAS, any sort of crosstown subway would be great because crosstown bus service uptown can be rather anemic and unreliable. Not only that but the topography uptown makes commuting more of a hassle, and since East Side access for a lot of neighborhoods is limited, allowing them to have that at 125th as an option is great.    

[Wallyhorse]

We all have different perspectives.  That's a given.  I just question how he's come to such a conclusion #1 and #2 how he automatically thinks that what he states works for everyone else and if it doesn't there must be something wrong with them?   Traveling East-West in the Bronx in general is not easy because of how the streets are laid out, so quite frankly, the "easiest" way would be to simply drive, and even with that there is meandering involved.  Going back to SAS, any sort of crosstown subway would be great because crosstown bus service uptown can be rather anemic and unreliable. Not only that but the topography uptown makes commuting more of a hassle, and since East Side access for a lot of neighborhoods is limited, allowing them to have that at 125th as an option is great.    

Exactly, and that's why 125 all the way across should really be part of Phase 2 (perhaps as a Phase 2A) if possible. 

[CenSin]

Exactly, and that's why 125 all the way across should really be part of Phase 2 (perhaps as a Phase 2A) if possible. 

If they build phase 2 as-is, then yes. If they miraculously decide to extend to the Bronx first, the 125 Street routes should be taken off the table. The would serve that purpose (albeit, not as well).