Second Avenue Subway Discussion

[Grand Concourse]

That makes no sense. The coming off the bridge is an express, why would you make it run to 95th when that's connected directly to the local? All that would be is the pre 2004 service.

[Guest Lance]

I have to agree here. It would be an operations nightmare to say the least. Entering Brooklyn, the would have to switch over to the local tracks and the would have to cut over to the express tracks between DeKalb Av and Pacific St, thus causing unnecessary delays. The would then have to cross back over to the local tracks before 36 St/4 Av southbound to serve the local stations through 95 St while the would still be on the same local tracks until it diverges over to the West End line. If you think the is slow now, just try and implement that cockamamie plan of yours and see how slow it could get. I can tell you for a fact that the 4th Avenue line needs less weaving and merging, not more.

[Threxx]

When the SAS is opened, i'd just bring back the , Bay Parkway-Astoria. I'd help out the on 4th & replace the in Astoria.

[Brighton Express]

In mine, the does go back to Astoria (and 24/7), but is also swapped with the on the Brooklyn end with the taking over the West End and the going to 95th Street.

 

The still goes to Astoria weekdays from 5:30 AM-10:00 PM and at other times goes to 96th-2nd Avenue with the .

 

The goes back to 71st-Continental at all times while the is also at least a 19/7 train there. To avoid rush-hour congestion, during those times and as needed otherwise, they are extended to 179th.

 

 

 

Why would you want three lines (All Three Lines) from Broadway ending at Coney Island?

 

I doubt that the and the would need help from the at night. I know some say the is going to 57 St in the night and on weekends, but I think that it is going to 72 St or 125 St.

 

If you sent the to Continental again, you might as well just make the brown. If the Crosstown Local went back out there, just put the back to Chambers or Broad all times, just like back in the day.

 

And BROTHER, the and to 179 St? I think the and do a pretty good job already.

 

 

When the SAS is opened, i'd just bring back the , Bay Parkway-Astoria. I'd help out the on 4th & replace the in Astoria.

 

 

If they brought back the , and put it from Bay Pkwy to Astoria Ditmars Blvd, they could surely run the as Express all times in the peak direction.

[Threxx]

If they brought back the , and put it from Bay Pkwy to Astoria Ditmars Blvd, they could surely run the as Express all times in the peak direction.

 

 

I think they'd be a sudden drop in ridership and a equally sudden spike in ridership if they did that...

[Grand Concourse]

There won't be any express on West End: most of the riders are on the local stops and you'd just have empty express trains. I don't think the West End line needs another line. West End's 9th av stop would be useful to turn back the extra 4th av locals.

[Brighton Express]

There won't be any express on West End: most of the riders are on the local stops and you'd just have empty express trains. I don't think the West End line needs another line. West End's 9th av stop would be useful to turn back the extra 4th av locals.

 

 

So you are basically saying that the should go to 9 Av.

 

I think the should go to Whitehall and the <W> should just be an extension to Bay Parkway. No weekend service.

[Grand Concourse]

Basically, yes. Bring the old back, but the select rush hour trains goes no further than 9th av or even Bay Pkwy if there's a demand for them.

I still say that shortening the would be better though.

[Brighton Express]

When you say shorten the , what exactly do you mean? Cut it to Astoria? 57 St?

[Grand Concourse]

No. As in my other posts here: When the comes back, swap the southern terminal with the . from 71st to Whitehall and from Astoria to 95th.

[S78 via Hylan]

That's a good plan but, just one problem: The won't access have to a yard if you make it run between Astoria and 95th just like how the didn't when it ran from Astoria to 95th.

 

I like the idea of restoring the though.

[GojiMet86]

What about keeping things simple?:

 

Rush Hours and Midday:

Astoria - Coney Island via Sea Beach, Broadway Express, via Bridge, 4 Av. Express

96 St. - Coney Island via Brighton, Broadway Express, via Bridge, Brighton Local

71 Av. - 95 Street, Broadway Local, via Whitehall, 4 Av. Local

Astoria - Bay Pkwy Rush Hour/9 Av. Midday, via West End, Broadway Local, via Whitehall, 4 Av. Local

 

Evenings and Late Nights:

Astoria - Coney Island via Sea Beach, Broadway Local, via Bridge, 4 Av. Express

96 St. - Coney Island via Brighton, Broadway Express, via Bridge, Brighton Local

71 Av. Evenings/36 St. Late Nights - 95 Street, Broadway Local, via Whitehall, 4 Av. Local

Astoria - Whitehall St. (perhaps Canal St.) Evenings, Broadway Local, via Whitehall(No service after 12:00)

 

Weekend:

Astoria - Coney Island via Sea Beach, Broadway Local, via Bridge, 4 Av. Express

96 St. - Coney Island via Brighton, Broadway Express, via Bridge, Brighton Local

71 Av. - 95 Street, Broadway Local, via Whitehall, 4 Av. Local

Astoria - 9 Av. via West End, Broadway Local, via Whitehall, 4 Av. Local

[Grand Concourse]

That's a good plan but, just one problem: The won't access have to a yard if you make it run between Astoria and 95th just like how the didn't when it ran from Astoria to 95th.

 

I like the idea of restoring the though.

 

People here are making the yard issue much bigger than it should be. It's not like the yard is in another borough and some rush hour trains has to run thru Sea Beach anyway. The only need for a yard is if the trains are prone to breakdowns and need an immediate replacement.

[Brighton Express]

What about Keeping Things Simple?:

 

Rush Hours and Midday:

Astoria - Bay Pkwy Rush Hour/9 Av. Midday, via West End, Broadway Local, via Whitehall, 4 Av. Local

 

Evenings and Late Nights:

Astoria - Whitehall St. (perhaps Canal St.) Evenings, Broadway Local, via Whitehall(No service after 12:00)

 

Weekend:

Astoria - 9 Av. via West End, Broadway Local, via Whitehall, 4 Av. Local

 

 

Why not have the go to 9 Av/Bay Pkwy during normal service, and rush hours with some peak directional Express trains?

 

On weekends and late nights, cut it to Whitehall St?

[Threxx]

Why not have the go to 9 Av/Bay Pkwy during normal service, and rush hours with some peak directional Express trains?

 

On weekends and late nights, cut it to Whitehall St?

 

 

I agree about the , not the peak service.

 

What about keeping things simple?:

 

Rush Hours and Midday:

Astoria - Coney Island via Sea Beach, Broadway Express, via Bridge, 4 Av. Express

96 St. - Coney Island via Brighton, Broadway Express, via Bridge, Brighton Local

71 Av. - 95 Street, Broadway Local, via Whitehall, 4 Av. Local

Astoria - Bay Pkwy Rush Hour/9 Av. Midday, via West End, Broadway Local, via Whitehall, 4 Av. Local

 

Evenings and Late Nights:

Astoria - Coney Island via Sea Beach, Broadway Local, via Bridge, 4 Av. Express

96 St. - Coney Island via Brighton, Broadway Express, via Bridge, Brighton Local

71 Av. Evenings/36 St. Late Nights - 95 Street, Broadway Local, via Whitehall, 4 Av. Local

Astoria - Whitehall St. (perhaps Canal St.) Evenings, Broadway Local, via Whitehall(No service after 12:00)

 

Weekend:

Astoria - Coney Island via Sea Beach, Broadway Local, via Bridge, 4 Av. Express

96 St. - Coney Island via Brighton, Broadway Express, via Bridge, Brighton Local

71 Av. - 95 Street, Broadway Local, via Whitehall, 4 Av. Local

Astoria - 9 Av. via West End, Broadway Local, via Whitehall, 4 Av. Local

 

 

The should go to at least 9th Avenue all times. Plus, if the comes back, the should be full-time express.

[GojiMet86]

Meant for the to run express in Manhattan all times except late nights if there is no service.

 

As for the going to Brooklyn full time, well, I'm not sure what and how the demand is for an extra line on 4th Avenue or the West End.

[Guest Lance]

There probably isn't.

 

After giving it some thought, all these supplemental service ideas could easily be solved by increased service on the primary lines (the and ). There's nothing (besides the current lack of available cars and money) limiting those line from running 15 TPH, thus solving the Astoria problem, the 4th Avenue local problem, the West End problem and the Second Avenue problem. Simple, straight-forward and without the use of the .

 

Remember, the express/local portion of the Broadway line isn't that long. There's only five local stops between 57 St-7 Av and Canal St and if the and lines were streamlined (the as the full express [skips 49 St all times] to 57 St-7 Av [later to 96 St/2 Av] and the and as the locals to their current terminals) the trains would move much faster and you could fit more trains on the line.

[Threxx]

There probably isn't.

 

After giving it some thought, all these supplemental service ideas could easily be solved by increased service on the primary lines (the and ). There's nothing (besides the current lack of available cars and money) limiting those line from running 15 TPH, thus solving the Astoria problem, the 4th Avenue local problem, the West End problem and the Second Avenue problem. Simple, straight-forward and without the use of the .

 

Remember, the express/local portion of the Broadway line isn't that long. There's only five local stops between 57 St-7 Av and Canal St and if the and lines were streamlined (the as the full express [skips 49 St all times] to 57 St-7 Av [later to 96 St/2 Av] and the and as the locals to their current terminals) the trains would move much faster and you could fit more trains on the line.

 

 

Were talking about the need for the to come back when the goes to 96 Street. That can't be solved just with extra trains.

[Grand Concourse]

The Prince St switches slows down the and the other 2 lines as opposed to switching over at 34th. What should've happened was either the ran via tunnel and then 4th av express or they leave only the as the local south of 34th. was perfect for the rush hours, it should've only been used for that as opposed to the outright elimination.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

What about keeping things simple?:

 

Weekend:

Astoria - Coney Island via Sea Beach, Broadway Local, via Bridge, 4 Av. Express

96 St. - Coney Island via Brighton, Broadway Express, via Bridge, Brighton Local

71 Av. - 95 Street, Broadway Local, via Whitehall, 4 Av. Local

Astoria - 9 Av. via West End, Broadway Local, via Whitehall, 4 Av. Local

 

Does Astoria really need both the N and the W on weekends? Does Broadway really need three locals on weekends? If anything, shouldn't 2nd Ave get more service. Maybe send the N to 96th with the Q and eliminate the needless switching at 34th or Prince Streets.

Edited May 9, 2012 by T to Dyre Avenue

[T to Dyre Avenue]

After giving it some thought, all these supplemental service ideas could easily be solved by increased service on the primary lines (the and ). There's nothing (besides the current lack of available cars and money) limiting those line from running 15 TPH, thus solving the Astoria problem, the 4th Avenue local problem, the West End problem and the Second Avenue problem. Simple, straight-forward and without the use of the .

 

Remember, the express/local portion of the Broadway line isn't that long. There's only five local stops between 57 St-7 Av and Canal St and if the and lines were streamlined (the as the full express [skips 49 St all times] to 57 St-7 Av [later to 96 St/2 Av] and the and as the locals to their current terminals) the trains would move much faster and you could fit more trains on the line.

 

Coexisting with the A on CPW is most likely what prevents the D from running 15 tph. As for the N, Q and R, running 15 tph apiece is excessive, especially if you 're going to run both the N and R local all the way through Manhattan and Brooklyn. Do the Broadway and 4th Ave Local stations really need 30 tph? Edited May 9, 2012 by T to Dyre Avenue

[Guest Lance]

When I said that the and would run local, I didn't mean they would duplicate each other between the two 59th Streets. Both lines would run their current routes, just with increased TPHs.

[Mysterious2train]

At the height of its service during AM Rush, the has about 18 TPH (it running that often at all is news to me, but whatever) so the can't exceed 12 TPH.

[Shortline Bus]

Here a NY1 story from wed. (5/16/12)in which the will invest nearly a Million dollars on an air filtration system that will improve the air quality at or near the SAS construction zone.

 

http://www.ny1.com/content/news_beats/transit/161372/ny1-exclusive--air-filtration-system-to-deal-with-dust-by-second-avenue-construction

[Guest Lance]

Now let's see if it actually does improve air conditions on the site.