Second Avenue Subway Discussion

[Threxx]

Trying to make sense with how people thinks about service can be a mystery. But it doesn't surprise me that if you (the rider) gets a one seat express ride, why give it up? But that's what I would feel.

But that said, I never said I was against 2 lines to the UES. I just don't see the need to, but if they do, then that's fine and justified. Astoria will need one line that can provide the service the provides now and it's going to be a lot of work if it's the or as others mentioned here.

 

No one would be upset with more service. :tup:

Edited February 21, 2012 by ThrexxBus

[Grand Concourse]

Oh of course, more service would be a godsend, but the way the line runs with the mergers with the , it's prone to delays. Thus unless the has a route change, there's no way it would get the service it needs.

[2Line1291]

 

Oh of course, more service would be a godsend, but the way the line runs with the mergers with the , it's prone to delays. Thus unless the has a route change, there's no way it would get the service it needs.

The longer the line, the more it's prone to delays.

[Grand Concourse]

I know that, my point to him was the way the is now, there's no way you will have increased or more consistent service.

[Wallyhorse]

I still hope they can at least get Phase 2 done. Much of the tunneling for it was done in the 70s. A short section would need to be built between 105th and 110th Streets to connect the two existing sections. Probably the most significant new tunneling required in Phase 2 would be from 120th/2nd to 125th/Lex. Doesn't seem like a completely impossible, super-expensive project to do.

 

I suspect at the very worst, Phase 2 gets done to 116th Street since most of that was built in the 1970s and only the part as noted above needs to be built for that.

 

Beyond that is anyone's guess, but you have to wonder if it gets to that point and it's a matter of it being built at all or not, would they go elevated for the part between 120th or so and 125th/Lex (especially since there is a fault on 125th as has been noted in the past)? That I could see happening with provisions built in to later extend it across 125 if funding became available.

[CenSin]

Beyond that is anyone's guess, but you have to wonder if it gets to that point and it's a matter of it being built at all or not, would they go elevated for the part between 120th or so and 125th/Lex (especially since there is a fault on 125th as has been noted in the past)? That I could see happening with provisions built in to later extend it across 125 if funding became available

It's already been said that the fault is only applicable to the far west side. In fact, this was a response to a very comment you made about the same issue:

The Fault Line has nothing to do with this curve in the line, the only affect the Fault Line did to ANY property is the 125th St. Viaduct, that's all! Also, you don't need the Second Ave. Subway Elevated, there is no way people will like an elevated line poking thru 125th St. when you already have two elevated line intersecting the Street - Metro-North on Park and the IRT Line on Broadway.

 

The reason the is elevated at 125th is the same reason north of Dyckman it's elevated: The topography of Manhattan and how it drastically changes in those areas.

 

125th and Broadway is in an extremely deep valley, which was why the went elevated over the stretch it does in order to avoid having to go deeply downhill and uphill in order to keep the line level. Any SAS extension across 125th would likely have to end on an elevated platform at Broadway-12th Avenues for this reason, not to mention the fact that there IS a fault line there while also would make most, if not all of such an extension across 125th street have to be elevated. The reason I can see this happening is because of the massive expansion of Columbia University that is currently taking place and will continue to over the next 10-12 years. By the time such a line reached Broadway-12th Avenue, Columbia would likely be in a position to greatly benefit from such an SAS extension, which is why if I were at Columbia I'd be looking to partially pay for such an extension across 125.

 

Dyckman street is a similar issue, as the comes out of a tunnel directly onto a platform that very quickly becomes more elevated within that station.

I'm sure you've read the post before responding.

 

It appears that the only thing stopping the from being underground is the deep valley caused by the fault. The fault didn't really stop 3 other lines from being built underground, and according to the MTA's documents on the Second Avenue Subway's construction further north, it doesn't seem like it'll make a difference there either.

 

As for tunneling under 125 Street across, it's a gentle slant along the valley so it might be a non-issue. Here's a topographic map of the area:

http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=40.807954,-73.940728&spn=0.030696,0.066047&t=t&z=15

 

Here's some materials I referenced quickly:

• http://www.ldeo.columbia.edu/~mwest/scrap/NYseismicity.pdf

• http://www.flickr.com/photos/sparks1524/4842819292/

 

[Shortline Bus]

"Residents on the Upper East Side claim vibrations from the regular blasting at the Second Avenue subway construction site is damaging their historic brownstone properties.

 

There are 45 landmarked homes between Second and Third Avenues stretching from East 60th Street to 63rd Street.

 

Many of the homes in the area were built in the late 1800s.

 

“I worry about the building because it’s moving,” one resident told 1010 WINS’ Glenn Schuck. “I’m wondering if one of them will fall down eventually.”

 

He claims there are cracks on the walls and staircase all the way to the fourth floor of his East 62nd Street brownstone.

 

Some homeowners are considering asking for an injunction to stop the blasting.

 

According to a published report, the Metropolitan Transportation Authority said the blasting is below levels allowed by the buildings department."

 

 

Manhattan Residents Concerned 2nd Avenue Subway Project Blasting Is Damaging Buildings « CBS New York

[Threxx]

"Residents on the Upper East Side claim vibrations from the regular blasting at the Second Avenue subway construction site is damaging their historic brownstone properties.

 

There are 45 landmarked homes between Second and Third Avenues stretching from East 60th Street to 63rd Street.

 

Many of the homes in the area were built in the late 1800s.

 

“I worry about the building because it’s moving,” one resident told 1010 WINS’ Glenn Schuck. “I’m wondering if one of them will fall down eventually.”

 

He claims there are cracks on the walls and staircase all the way to the fourth floor of his East 62nd Street brownstone.

 

Some homeowners are considering asking for an injunction to stop the blasting.

 

According to a published report, the Metropolitan Transportation Authority said the blasting is below levels allowed by the buildings department."

 

 

Manhattan Residents Concerned 2nd Avenue Subway Project Blasting Is Damaging Buildings « CBS New York

 

If the MTA is telling the truth, then the buildings are the problem. They were built in the late 1800's, building codes were less strict - non-exsistent back then.

[Wallyhorse]

It's already been said that the fault is only applicable to the far west side. In fact, this was a response to a very comment you made about the same issue:I'm sure you've read the post before responding.

 

It appears that the only thing stopping the from being underground is the deep valley caused by the fault. The fault didn't really stop 3 other lines from being built underground, and according to the MTA's documents on the Second Avenue Subway's construction further north, it doesn't seem like it'll make a difference there either.

 

As for tunneling under 125 Street across, it's a gentle slant along the valley so it might be a non-issue. Here's a topographic map of the area:

Google Maps

 

Here's some materials I referenced quickly:

• http://www.ldeo.columbia.edu/~mwest/scrap/NYseismicity.pdf
  
• 125th Street Fault Line | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

 

Okay, so the fault isn't an issue. I've had others (on other boards) mention that as a bigger issue than it actually seems to be about going across 125.

 

The real issue there is a matter of money. To me, Phase 2 at the very least gets done to 116th Street because the only part (besides the two stations between 96th and 116th) that has to be built is that between 105th and 110th streets since the rest was built 35-40 years ago. The part between 116th and 125th is really the only part of Phase 2 to me in question, and whether or not being able to go elevated north of 120th or so (where the existing part ends) to 125/Lex had much more to do with whether it was cheaper to go elevated and whether or not that would make the difference in getting the terminal done (with provisions for further expansion west at a later time) if it came down to that from a money standpoint.

 

 

If the MTA is telling the truth, then the buildings are the problem. They were built in the late 1800's, building codes were less strict - non-exsistent back then.

 

If this is true about the blasting issue, then it really isn't the (MTA)'s fault nor that of anyone else. It's true building codes were not like today back then, as no one in those days could have envisioned the kind of blasting taking place in 2012.

[Guest lance25]

Re: Shortline Bus's post:

 

Again, it is a construction zone. Generally, when you're in a construction zone, there's a lot of banging and pounding and other types of noise. If they stop the blasting, how else will they build the subway line? Call a fairy godmother and wish it done?

 

As to the structural integrity of the nearby buildings, said structures should have been reinforced over the years, especially if they date back well over a hundred years.

[Roadcruiser1]

Can't we just do cut and cover? The residents of Second Avenue are giving me a headache with their complaints.

[Guest lance25]

Cut and cover would require digging up the entire road and, given the amount of traffic running on 2nd Ave, that will fly like a lead balloon.

[peacemak3r]

Can't we just do cut and cover? The residents of Second Avenue are giving me a headache with their complaints.

 

And you tell us to think before we post? Why don't you think for a moment..have you ever driven on Second Ave? Unless you are the President rolling down the avenue, there's no way they will do that especially with today's traffic going on. In that dense of a neighborhood, even borough so to speak, there's no way cut and covers would work.

[Wallyhorse]

Re: Shortline Bus's post:

 

Again, it is a construction zone. Generally, when you're in a construction zone, there's a lot of banging and pounding and other types of noise. If they stop the blasting, how else will they build the subway line? Call a fairy godmother and wish it done?

 

As to the structural integrity of the nearby buildings, said structures should have been reinforced over the years, especially if they date back well over a hundred years.

 

But even if so, it's possible they were not reinforced enough to withstand the kind of blasting going on now. Of course, assuming it is legal and the followed all proceedures to the best of their knowledge, this is clearly NOT their fault as no one then could have realized how much reinforcement those structures needed.

[Roadcruiser1]

And you tell us to think before we post? Why don't you think for a moment..have you ever driven on Second Ave? Unless you are the President rolling down the avenue, there's no way they will do that especially with today's traffic going on. In that dense of a neighborhood, even borough so to speak, there's no way cut and covers would work.

 

But there is First and Third Avenue. There isn't a second East Side Subway Line. Sometimes a sacrifice has to be done for the greater good, and that is a sacrifice.

[NX Express]

But there is First and Third Avenue. There isn't a second East Side Subway Line. Sometimes a sacrifice has to be done for the greater good, and that is a sacrifice.

 

Both are one-way uptown...:tdown:

[Roadcruiser1]

Both are one-way uptown...:tdown:

 

There is also Lexington Avenue, and besides cut and cover is the fastest method of construction. Like I pointed out it won't take long to build if it took the fast way out.

[NX Express]

There is also Lexington Avenue, and besides cut and cover is the fastest method of construction. Like I pointed out it won't take long to build if it took the fast way out.

 

I'll try saying this reasonably. Again.

 

You can't take three full avenues and fit the same traffic into two.

 

Example: you can't fit 90 tph onto two tracks (but you can fit that on three).

[Roadcruiser1]

I'll try saying this reasonably. Again.

 

You can't take three full avenues and fit the same traffic into two.

 

Example: you can't fit 90 tph onto two tracks (but you can fit that on three).

 

But this is also a phase at a time. The entire Avenue won't be shut down for months. Just parts of it.

[CenSin]

But this is also a phase at a time. The entire Avenue won't be shut down for months. Just parts of it.

Let's see you handle a blockage on all 2 tracks at 34 Street. You'd still have to squeeze all of the trains through 8 Avenue or the other 2 tracks. The end result, anyhow, is that any blockage along a corridor is going to cause problems. We call it a bottleneck.

[peacemak3r]

You close a section of a Manhattan Avenue for several months, you'll have bigger headaches then your current blasting complaints, I guarantee it. I used to drive a lot, but now since I'm going back to school; I take the MTA. I've had countless headaches on any Manhattan avenues and you're trying to close off a section at a time? Give me a break dude.

[6 Lexington Ave]

MTA To Monitor Noise From UES Tunnel Blasting - NY1.com

[kingal11234]

So I guess we will never see a Utica ave subway line?

[N4 Via Merrick Rd]

Steve Duncan Explores Abandoned Second Avenue Subway Beneath Chinatown [Video] - Bowery Boogie

 

HEy you guys watch this

[CenSin]

Steve Duncan Explores Abandoned Second Avenue Subway Beneath Chinatown [Video] - Bowery Boogie

 

HEy you guys watch this

Nice. I wonder what the depth of the tunnel is and how it's aligned relative to the streets above it.