Best article I've read about reactivating the Rockaway Beach line

[m7zanr160s]

Why create the H line to serve Rockaway Park and Rego Park? The MTA should just extend the Rockaway Park S shuttle to Rego Park.

 

 

But then it wouldn't be a anymore.

[m7zanr160s]

What are we talking about here? Light rail with the same specs as subway cars...shock absorbing tracks... If it's going to be so much like a subway car, it should be one. And, with today's technology, the new line should be fairly quiet. We do have concrete ties now, as well as continuous welded rail (CWR). Check how quiet the Atlantic Avenue viaduct is now after the renovation. Before, it was really loud. This line reactivation is a no-brainer. I would like to see these obvious projects acted upon before brand new ones are. The new line does not have to go all the way to the city. People don't need one-seat rides everywhere, that's a luxury. They just need access. Queens needs more subways.

[NY1635]

The isn't the best plan, extending the is. There is space for the on QBL, and it makes it more useful and services Rockaway riders.

 

 

There's no space for the G on the Queens Boulevard Line. The G was shortened to Court Square for a reason: To give Queens Boulevard riders another train route to Manhattan. In order for the G serve Queens Plaza - 71st Coninental, and Rockaways, you're going to have to cut service on the M or the R.

[Grand Concourse]

 

would only need to go to Woodhaven and then turn around 63rd to get onto the ROW. The only reason they can't run 3 locals in the middays and rush hours is due to 71st not being able to handle turning back all those trains. So technically the can still work.

[Roadcruiser1]

There's no space for the G on the Queens Boulevard Line. The G was shortened to Court Square for a reason: To give Queens Boulevard riders another train route to Manhattan. In order for the G serve Queens Plaza - 71st Coninental, and Rockaways, you're going to have to cut service on the M or the R.

 

 

There is some room, but this room is quite variable and unstable. Any increase or change in service on the and can result in the death of the extension.

[Threxx]

There is some room, but this room is quite variable and unstable. Any increase or change in service on the and can result in the death of the extension.

 

What says that will happen though? All hypotheical stuff.

[Far Rock Depot]

Saying that the proposal of a Rock Pk-Rego Pk line is useless because it wont go to manhattan is.....shortsided. Considering that most riders from rockaway who bus up woodhaven arent going to manhattan. Having a transfer to connect to QBl lines to manhattan wouls suffice enough.

As also stated, it makes common sense to have the S become the H, yet again. Now i dont thing the elimination of the Rock Pk A is warrented. Its 5 trips peak direction and provides extra seats for those who use the A in general, not just for rock pk. Same philosophy when coming up with ideas for the RoW service. Saying it wont work because of no one-seat access to Manhattan is also short sided. Its not all about manhattan. its also about options for traveling within Queens. Especially from The Rockaways. Which is the whole overall point to not only the article in the OP, But the whole concept in general for this proposal. The whole east side of manhattan needs a subway, but its being built in phases. The RoW proposal to just have it reach QB could itself be a "Phase 1".

[Threxx]

Saying that the proposal of a Rock Pk-Rego Pk line is useless because it wont go to manhattan is.....shortsided. Considering that most riders from rockaway who bus up woodhaven arent going to manhattan. Having a transfer to connect to QBl lines to manhattan wouls suffice enough.

As also stated, it makes common sense to have the S become the H, yet again. Now i dont thing the elimination of the Rock Pk A is warrented. Its 5 trips peak direction and provides extra seats for those who use the A in general, not just for rock pk. Same philosophy when coming up with ideas for the RoW service. Saying it wont work because of no one-seat access to Manhattan is also short sided. Its not all about manhattan. its also about options for traveling within Queens. Especially from The Rockaways. Which is the whole overall point to not only the article in the OP, But the whole concept in general for this proposal. The whole east side of manhattan needs a subway, but its being built in phases. The RoW proposal to just have it reach QB could itself be a "Phase 1".

 

 

Ok, I can see it in the short term, but it could backfire in the long term.

[Brighton Express]

Saying that the proposal of a Rock Pk-Rego Pk line is useless because it wont go to manhattan is.....shortsided. Considering that most riders from rockaway who bus up woodhaven arent going to manhattan. Having a transfer to connect to QBl lines to manhattan wouls suffice enough.

As also stated, it makes common sense to have the S become the H, yet again. Now i dont thing the elimination of the Rock Pk A is warrented. Its 5 trips peak direction and provides extra seats for those who use the A in general, not just for rock pk. Same philosophy when coming up with ideas for the RoW service. Saying it wont work because of no one-seat access to Manhattan is also short sided. Its not all about manhattan. its also about options for traveling within Queens. Especially from The Rockaways. Which is the whole overall point to not only the article in the OP, But the whole concept in general for this proposal. The whole east side of manhattan needs a subway, but its being built in phases. The RoW proposal to just have it reach QB could itself be a "Phase 1".

 

 

Finally, someone agrees with me about the .

 

And it is not like its hard to program the into R160s, and plus all of the R46s have the programmed into it.

[Roadcruiser1]

Finally, someone agrees with me about the .

 

And it is not like its hard to program the into R160s, and plus all of the R46s have the programmed into it.

 

 

It's not going to run R160's or anything like that since the R160's causes the LIPA's transformers to go bust.

[Far Rock Depot]

It's not going to run R160's or anything like that since the R160's causes the LIPA's transformers to go bust.

 

Dude, the 179s are so far, slated to go to Pitkin.

 

every time NTT and Rockaway are in the same sentence, this BS comes up. Plus, Who says LIPA provides power north of Liberty? If LIPA covers all of Queens, then every Queens line would be NTT-less. Who says the problem isnt fixed already?

How do the NTTs go to Broad Channel for testing? Any proposal for the RoW is years from operation. Do you really think that This issue is going to continue?

Chances are, This line will have some form of NTT cars on it. And as someone VERY credible stated here in the forums, ENY, i believe, The 179s as i stated above, are slated for Pitkin.

[Roadcruiser1]

Dude, the 179s are so far, slated to go to Pitkin.

 

every time NTT and Rockaway are in the same sentence, this BS comes up. Plus, Who says LIPA provides power north of Liberty? If LIPA covers all of Queens, then every Queens line would be NTT-less. Who says the problem isnt fixed already?

How do the NTTs go to Broad Channel for testing? Any proposal for the RoW is years from operation. Do you really think that This issue is going to continue?

Chances are, This line will have some form of NTT cars on it. And as someone VERY credible stated here in the forums, ENY, i believe, The 179s as i stated above, are slated for Pitkin.

 

 

These R179's are bound for the . The LIPA operates the transformers on the Rockaways. Plus there isn't enough R179's ordered for every line that will run out there. It's only enough for some lines and that is mostly the . The R160's when they were tested on the Rockaways overloaded the transformers. I highly doubt that problem is fixed yet.

[Brighton Express]

These R179's are bound for the . The LIPA operates the transformers on the Rockaways. Plus there isn't enough R179's ordered for every line that will run out there. It's only enough for some lines and that is mostly the . The R160's when they were tested on the Rockaways overloaded the transformers. I highly doubt that problem is fixed yet.

 

 

It got fixed a while ago from what I have heard. I posted a picture of an R160 on the , and they told me that the problem was solved months ago.

[Far Rock Depot]

It overloaded the TFs in 1992 when they first tried sending an NTT (R110B). It was able to serve rockaway in service after 1993. The R160, I never saw any proof of that ESPECIALLY since EVERY NTT goes to Broad Channel. BTW, It was said by the MTA that 179s are for the A/C lines. Not just the C. SO if one NTT can overload the system, how do they go to broad channel? answer that. It wasnt new ten years ago. Its been twenty years. 20!

 

Im going to find out the FACT about this issue. Since everyone loves to repeat any, and i do mean ANY info passed their way based on hear-say.

[Roadcruiser1]

It overloaded the TFs in 1992 when they first tried sending an NTT (R110B). It was able to serve rockaway in service after 1993. The R160, I never saw any proof of that ESPECIALLY since EVERY NTT goes to Broad Channel. BTW, It was said by the MTA that 179s are for the A/C lines. Not just the C. SO if one NTT can overload the system, how do they go to broad channel? answer that. It wasnt new ten years ago. Its been twenty years. 20!

 

Im going to find out the FACT about this issue. Since everyone loves to repeat any, and i do mean ANY info passed their way based on hear-say.

 

 

That was what I heard from the unless if the issues are solved then.

[Grand Concourse]

Wasn't problem that the Rockaways can't handle consecutive R160s (basically if nothing but R160s ran there)? Obviously R160s can run on the Rockaways as I rode one on the to Far Rockaway back in 2006 when they were testing on that line.

[Tokkemon]

I don't think light rail can run along with subway. It's not possible.

 

 

Philadelphia and Boston.

 

Jus' sayin'.

[Guest Lance]

Regarding this power problem, whether or not this Rockaways connection gets built any time soon, LIPA is going to have to fix that problem (if they haven't already), unless their ultimate goal is to abandon the Rockaways line entirely.

[Brighton Express]

Wasn't problem that the Rockaways can't handle consecutive R160s (basically if nothing but R160s ran there)? Obviously R160s can run on the Rockaways as I rode one on the to Far Rockaway back in 2006 when they were testing on that line.

 

 

Yes, they ran out there. The only problem was that the trains literally sucked all of the juice out of the 3rd Rail. Since they are newer, and require much more power than the older trains like the R42 or R44/46, the Rockaways could not handle them any longer, or the entire neighborhood would have blacked out or something like that. I heard that they were supposed to put some R160s on the , but this contributed a little to why there are none there.

 

I have heard the problem was fixed months ago by many on the forums, but apparently some say it is not.

[GojiMet86]

Yes, they ran out there. The only problem was that the trains literally sucked all of the juice out of the 3rd Rail. Since they are newer, and require much more power than the older trains like the R42 or R44/46, the Rockaways could not handle them any longer, or the entire neighborhood would have blacked out or something like that. I heard that they were supposed to put some R160s on the , but this contributed a little to why there are none there.

 

I have heard the problem was fixed months ago by many on the forums, but apparently some say it is not.

 

 

Outdated equipment? It's hard to fanthom that one train could make the lights of a neighborhood go out.

[Far Rock Depot]

Philadelphia and Boston.

 

Jus' sayin'.

 

The thing about Philly's is that although the MF El and The Subway-Surface streetcars do use the same subway tunnel under Center City, They dont Share tracks.

[Far Rock Depot]

All i know is in 96, i was told by enginneers that it was the power distribution in the substations still set to LIRR voltage that caused the R110B to short. They tried fixing the problem by adjusting the train itself but it caught fire. So they lowered the voltage fron the substations. Now th newer cars take too much juice and now it hase to be increased. Whether its that or the opposite, fact is, its been 20 years since the problem was discovered. So for it to still be a problem of some sort to this day is not only unheard of, but i feel since heads like to feel "knowledgable" they continue to spew out this excuse as to why there are no NTTs in Rockaway.

 

So here we are discussing the possability or restoring the RoW. And NTTs, according to few here, would not work because of a power problem thats not only 20 yrs old, but will be a problem 10-20 years from now if this line gets activated. by the time this gets activated(BIG IF), how many NTTs will we have compared to the old SMEE equipment? What, do ya'll feel that the MTA are going to have 60+ year old cars just to go to rockaway? And you want to be looked at as a respectible, knowledgable enthusiest when half of the assinine ideas are unrealistic with a time frame of like "its gonna happen next week" and the other half for a decade or two down the road are using today's (and yesterday's) arguments just to validate their own ideas?

"Oh, you can just extend the G"

"Theres no room. Its Why they shortend it and added the V. Four lines to manhattan instead of three" They should just start out with it running to just QB"

"But then theres no one seat ride to midtown"

 

See the error in logic there?

 

by the time (IF) this gets built, CBTC may be in effect and a future extention can be made. Whats wong with phases? Phase1, reactivate the line and povide service between rego Pk and Rk park Phase 2, connect the two lines and provide manhatta service.

 

All of this will probably be in the next decade where the majority of the fleet will be NTT, CBTC will be more of the norm, and these BS excuses will be put to rest.

 

What we SHOULD be doing (myself included) is to discuss how we (as enthuseists, residents and commuters) can help make this a reality.

The fact is, the RoW is still MTA/City owned.

We have seen a serge of intrest gaining momentum. Its only in time that the tides will turn and the "Second Ave Subway of Queens" will see an actual drawing board. THEN we can sepculate what will be done as far as service.

[NY1635]

The MTA needs to complete the Second Avenue Subway, and the No. 7 Extension first, then focus on reactivating the Rockaway Beach line.

[Guest Lance]

I'd flip that NY1635 since the ROW is already there for Rockaway Beach, whereas they still have to dig the entire Second Avenue subway before that can be used.

[Brighton Express]

Outdated equipment? It's hard to fanthom that one train could make the lights of a neighborhood go out.

 

 

It wasn't one train. Everything was fine during the testing. If they had taken out all of the R46s and put in R160s, this would be a candidate for something most likely to occur. The R160s can go to Lefferts perfectly fine, it is just when they get out on that Rockaway stretch from Rockaway Blvd to Broad Channel.