Gentrifying neighborhoods in NYC?

[checkmatechamp13]

1) Nice of you to mention this, but the black population in NYC is declining overall, which quite frankly is confusing because it seems like they're making their presence in areas where they aren't known to be generally speaking.

 

2) The South Shore isn't changing like that...

 

3) Anywho, found an interesting link on the changes in certain neighborhoods... Very interesting...

 

http://www.urbanrese....org/plurality/

 

 

1) And what's your point? It went from something like 25% to 23%. Big deal. That still doesn't mean there can't be middle class (or upper class) Blacks. Look at Jamaica Estates. It's not majority Black, but there are plenty of Black people there.

 

2) Your own link proves that. All I'm saying is that a few additional Black people moved to the South Shore. I never acted like the South Shore was even close to becoming majority Black.

 

3) LOL. I remember showing you that map when we were discussing West Brighton (and aside from that, I have a ton of demographic maps besides that). Here's the post: http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/index.php/topic/33111-thinking-about-moving-to-rockaway/page__st__20?do=findComment&comment=507492

[Shortline Bus]

FYI. Off topic for second but related to NYC demographics. Overall, the total number residents of American born Blacks(not counting those born in the Carribean or Africa)in NYC like most of this country's big cities is declining.

Afro-American are doing a reserve move back south to places such as the Carolinas, Fla., Georgia, Alabama and Virgina. By 2040 according to current US census trends(yes i worked briefly for the census in 2000 as a census taker) as much as 60-70 of American born Blacks in the US will be living in the Southeast and "Deep South." With Atlanta already on it's way to being the new 'captial city' for African-Americans in the 21st century.

 

While NYC will be a majority 75% Latino and Asian population.

 

And VG8 by accident i closed the thread which i am sorry. However I renamed this topic to "Gentrifying in NYC" because you know very well lol this topic was not going to focus only on Inwood/Washington Heights.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1) And what's your point? It went from something like 25% to 23%. Big deal. That still doesn't mean there can't be middle class (or upper class) Blacks. Look at Jamaica Estates. It's not majority Black, but there are plenty of Black people there.

 

My point was that while the stats say that the black population is declining, it seems like there are more blacks. Then again maybe it feels that way to me because I live and work in heavily white areas, and even seeing a few blacks can seen like a big deal. I would say to honest that since I went to Europe seeing blacks as the majority for me has been a rarity. I went down by Livingston Street to meet a client last month and that was the first time that I've been in an area that has a lot of blacks around in a LONG time... I was certainly getting stares (nothing crazy, but sort of like what brings you around here? I just toughed it out and made the best of it.) I'm from Brooklyn and worked down there at the , but it had been a while since I frequented that area.

 

2) Your own link proves that. All I'm saying is that a few additional Black people moved to the South Shore. I never acted like the South Shore was even close to becoming majority Black.

 

I would think that could have something to do with some areas of the South Shore changing. I can tell you that some folks were not thrilled (to put it lightly) when the Russians started moving into Great Kills. lol

 

3) LOL. I remember showing you that map when we were discussing West Brighton (and aside from that, I have a ton of demographic maps besides that). Here's the post: http://www.nyctransi..._20#entry507492

 

 

Yeah funny post... Speaking of West Brighton there was a TERRIBLE car accident right near where I used to live on Forest & Elizabeth. The car slammed into a few poles (bus stop and electric pole).

 

FYI. Off topic for second but related to NYC demographics. Overall, the total number residents of American born Blacks(not counting those born in the Carribean or Africa)in NYC like most of this country's big cities is declining.

Afro-American are doing a reserve move back south to places such as the Carolinas, Fla., Georgia, Alabama and Virgina. By 2040 according to current US census trends(yes i worked briefly for the census in 2000 as a census taker) as much as 60-70 of American born Blacks in the US will be living in the Southeast and "Deep South." With Atlanta already on it's way to being the new 'captial city' for African-Americans in the 21st century.

 

While NYC will be a majority 75% Latino and Asian population.

 

And VG8 by accident i closed the thread which i am sorry. However I renamed this topic to "Gentrifying in NYC" because you know very well lol this topic was not going to focus only on Inwood/Washington Heights.

 

 

That I didn't mind, but my post was modified for some odd reason.

 

What I'm confused on about your comment in bold is when they say that the population of blacks is declining is it NOT referring to say Africans or Caribbean blacks? I ask because if anything I'd say their population is growing.

[B35 via Church]

Overall, the total number residents of American born Blacks (not counting those born in the Carribean or Africa) in NYC like most of this country's big cities is declining.

 

That has to do with relations between american black women & american black men; something I'm not going to go into in this thread....

There are videos all over YT referencing this supposed "gender war" and how it's affecting the black community.

[checkmatechamp13]

1) My point was that while the stats say that the black population is declining, it seems like there are more blacks. Then again maybe it feels that way to me because I live and work in heavily white areas, and even seeing a few blacks can seen like a big deal. I would say to honest that since I went to Europe seeing blacks as the majority for me has been a rarity. I went down by Livingston Street to meet a client last month and that was the first time that I've been in an area that has a lot of blacks around in a LONG time... I was certainly getting stares (nothing crazy, but sort of like what brings you around here? I just toughed it out and made the best of it.) I'm from Brooklyn and worked down there at the , but it had been a while since I frequented that area.

 

2) Yeah funny post... Speaking of West Brighton there was a TERRIBLE car accident right near where I used to live on Forest & Elizabeth. The car slammed into a few poles (bus stop and electric pole).

 

3) That I didn't mind, but my post was modified for some odd reason.

 

What I'm confused on about your comment in red is when they say that the population of blacks is declining is it NOT referring to say Africans or Caribbean blacks? I ask because if anything I'd say their population is growing.

 

 

1) That's probably it. I mean, Downtown Brooklyn has always had a lot of Blacks there considering that areas like Fort Greene, Clinton Hill, Bed-Stuy, and Prospect Heights are nearby (and yes, I know the White populations are increasing there too).

 

2) Well, it's true. I mean, Staten Island is becoming more diverse and it's not just Blacks and Hispanics coming in (and by the way, I found another one with more historical census data: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/nation/census/2010/ I told you white flight didn't happen on Castleton Avenue as soon as the PJs were built. )

 

As for the accident, how serious was it (was anybody killed?)

 

3) What did you say in your original post that was modified?

 

In any case, he said he wasn't counting foreign-born Blacks. Which makes sense because I do know a lot of Blacks with Carribean ancestry (or with recent African ancestry. As in one of their parents or grandparents came from Africa, and some of them have African-sounding names). I even know somebody who was born in Ghana (and she's always talking about everything that's wrong with this country, and of course, we all joke back "If you hate it so much here, then why don't you leave?")

[Shortline Bus]

My point was that while the stats say that the black population is declining, it seems like there are more blacks. Then again maybe it feels that way to me because I live and work in heavily white areas, and even seeing a few blacks can seen like a big deal. I would say to honest that since I went to Europe seeing blacks as the majority for me has been a rarity. I went down by Livingston Street to meet a client last month and that was the first time that I've been in an area that has a lot of blacks around in a LONG time... I was certainly getting stares (nothing crazy, but sort of like what brings you around here? I just toughed it out and made the best of it.) I'm from Brooklyn and worked down there at the , but it had been a while since I frequented that area.

 

 

 

I would think that could have something to do with some areas of the South Shore changing. I can tell you that some folks were not thrilled (to put it lightly) when the Russians started moving into Great Kills. lol

 

 

 

Yeah funny post... Speaking of West Brighton there was a TERRIBLE car accident right near where I used to live on Forest & Elizabeth. The car slammed into a few poles (bus stop and electric pole).

 

 

 

That I didn't mind, but my post was modified for some odd reason.

 

What I'm confused on about your comment in bold is when they say that the population of blacks is declining is it NOT referring to say Africans or Caribbean blacks? I ask because if anything I'd say their population is growing.

 

 

 

I meant to say that at least in NYC the majority of Blacks living in the 5 boros according to census(man i am sound like checkmate lol )will be non US born i.e born in either the carribean or africa. And those African American born in the US are leaving NYC for the south. I never said the Black population was dropping but that those in NYC are increasing becoming born overseas. That my point VG8.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I meant to say that at least in NYC the majority of Blacks living in the 5 boros according to census(man i am sound like checkmate lol )will be non US born i.e born in either the carribean or africa. And those African American born in the US are leaving NYC for the south. I never said the Black population was dropping but that those in NYC are increasing becoming born overseas. That my point VG8.

 

 

That's what I wanted clarification on... Gotcha....

[CDTA]

I don't want to really steer this off topic, but a side note, if you look at Yoder WY, it says Blacks 0% +200% Increase from 2000

 

I mean seriously only like 300 people live there. Proabably one guy moved in there.

[Roadcruiser1]

I know that Long Island City is starting to gentrify. Lots of new residential skyscrapers are popping up down there, and they are being filled up with rich Latinos, and Whites.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I don't want to really steer this off topic, but a side note, if you look at Yoder WY, it says Blacks 0% +200% Increase from 2000

 

I mean seriously only like 300 people live there. Proabably one guy moved in there.

 

LOL... I think one way to tell what kind of folks live in an area is by looking at the transportation. I'd say that the express buses in Riverdale and MetroNorth are pretty well representative of the demographics in my neighborhood. I decided to not use the express bus this morning and took MetroNorth at the Spuyten Duyvil station. I saw one black guy at the station and one black lady. The rest were all white and a few Asians.

[checkmatechamp13]

LOL... I think one way to tell what kind of folks live in an area is by looking at the transportation. I'd say that the express buses in Riverdale and MetroNorth are pretty well representative of the demographics in my neighborhood. I decided to not use the express bus this morning and took MetroNorth at the Spuyten Duyvil station. I saw one black guy at the station and one black lady. The rest were all white and a few Asians.

 

 

It depends on how prevelant public transportation use is in the neighborhood. Pinepower keeps ranting about all the Hispanics (who are apparently all illegal) on the buses and a lot of them pass through mostly White neighborhoods.

 

Aside from that, I remember getting on an S54 and there were only a few people on the bus, and they were all Black. And then I got on with some students waiting at the stop (I had to go to Wagner HS for something) and there were only 2 White girls. Everybody else on the bus was either Black or Hispanic. I've taken the S54 before that, but I didn't really pay attention to anything relating to the ridership, but I assume it's always been disproportionately Black (I mean, maybe it's not all Black, but considering that on average, the areas it passes through are like 4% Black, that's disproportionate)

[Via Garibaldi 8]

It depends on how prevelant public transportation use is in the neighborhood. Pinepower keeps ranting about all the Hispanics (who are apparently all illegal) on the buses and a lot of them pass through mostly White neighborhoods.

 

Aside from that, I remember getting on an S54 and there were only a few people on the bus, and they were all Black. And then I got on with some students waiting at the stop (I had to go to Wagner HS for something) and there were only 2 White girls. Everybody else on the bus was either Black or Hispanic. I've taken the S54 before that, but I didn't really pay attention to anything relating to the ridership, but I assume it's always been disproportionately Black (I mean, maybe it's not all Black, but considering that on average, the areas it passes through are like 4% Black, that's disproportionate)

 

 

Yeah sometimes that can vary but sometimes it is blacks. The thing is apparently they go from one project (there must be a project near to where the S54 terminates going Northbound) and then they'll go by those Todt Hill projects, plus you have the high school further down, so that's when you'll see some of them, but actually, the times that I've used the S54 there have been Mexicans on it majority of the time. It all depends on the time of day or night. Whites that do use it tend to be usually be elderly and sometimes young too but if they are they usually young they usually get off with me at Forest Avenue. Forest Avenue seems to be sort of the "border line" on the North-South buses and maybe on the S53 Delafield Avenue. After that it's usually Latinos and Blacks.

[checkmatechamp13]

Yeah sometimes that can vary but sometimes it is blacks. The thing is apparently they go from one project (there must be a project near to where the S54 terminates going Northbound) and then they'll go by those Todt Hill projects, plus you have the high school further down, so that's when you'll see some of them, but actually, the times that I've used the S54 there have been Mexicans on it majority of the time. It all depends on the time of day or night. Whites that do use it tend to be usually be elderly and sometimes young too but if they are they usually young they usually get off with me at Forest Avenue. Forest Avenue seems to be sort of the "border line" on the North-South buses and maybe on the S53 Delafield Avenue. After that it's usually Latinos and Blacks.

 

 

C'mon. Those are the projects you always keep ranting about how the area had a ton of white flight (which it didn't. It happened gradually. But anyway...) and shouldn't even be considered a part of West Brighton. You have the West Brighton Houses at Castleton & Broadway, and then you have Markham Gardens, which used to be a high-rise project, but now it's townhouses (but I think it's still run by NYCHA, so it's still a project), which are at Richmond Terrace & Broadway.

[MTARegional Bus]

Hmm... I couldn't say because I don't travel around the Bronx. I go from Riverdale to the city and back.

 

 

Riverdale is not even part of the Bronx anyway lol.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Riverdale is not even part of the Bronx anyway lol.

 

 

That was my point. Notice how I worded that post...

[Threxx]

That was my point. Notice how I worded that post...

 

 

As much as you like to joke about it and "slander" the rest of the Bronx, Riverdale is geographically & politically part of the Bronx...

[Via Garibaldi 8]

As much as you like to joke about it and "slander" the rest of the Bronx, Riverdale is geographically & politically part of the Bronx...

 

 

Let's see... Upstairs Riverdale is separated geographically from the rest of the Bronx by the hills... We're the complete opposite of the Bronx... Affluent, some of the lowest crime in the city, some of the best public and private schools in the city and the list goes on and on. I'm one of those folks that proudly puts Riverdale, NY for my mailing address and I wouldn't have it any other way. Riverdale is something to be proud of. We have our own little town up here away from everything and we want nothing to do with the Bronx (particularly its image), hence why I don't venture outside of Riverdale.

 

Architecturally speaking, upstairs Riverdale looks nothing like the Bronx either. Now along Broadway... Ugh... Looks like an extension of the Bronx, but at least it is safe with no burned out buildings and thugs all over the place. The fact is that many people that live in Riverdale would not live in the Bronx for a second, even the nice parts, because even the nice parts are starting to change. Hell for years, Throggs Neck was considered to be one of the few relatively "safe" areas of the Bronx. While most of the Bronx struggles with the recession, crime and high unemployment, I would imagine that Riverdale has retained a relatively low unemployment rate, similiar to the Upper East Side. Furthermore, we have some of the most educated individuals in terms of degrees and education, so with all of that said it is hard to see Riverdale as "part of the Bronx" when we share practically nothing in common with the borough.

 

Manhattanites have no problem going to Riverdale, as many Upper East Siders go back and forth between the two neighborhoods, but they would certainly hesitate to go to the Bronx... I still remember going to Morris Park on the BxM10 to visit a co-worker who was having a BBQ and being in disbelief at how run down the Bronx is. It was further more shocking to be in Morris Park with birds chirping and tree lines streets, no gun shots or thugs running about. Sad but true, and folks generally don't view the Bronx very well and that is certainly understandable.

 

Relating this back to gentrification, Riverdale is one neighborhood that I think will remain relatively unchanged with the population shift since it is quite expensive in comparison to the wealthy parts of Manhattan.

[Threxx]

Let's see... Upstairs Riverdale is separated geographically from the rest of the Bronx by the hills... We're the complete opposite of the Bronx... Affluent, some of the lowest crime in the city, some of the best public and private schools in the city and the list goes on and on. I'm one of those folks that puts Riverdale, NY and I wouldn't have it any other way. I want nothing to do with the Bronx (particularly its image), hence why I don't venture outside of Riverdale. Architecturally speaking, upstairs Riverdale looks nothing like the Bronx either. Now along Broadway... Ugh... Looks like an extension of the Bronx, but at least it is safe with no burned out buildings and thugs all over the place. The fact is that many people that live in Riverdale would not live in the Bronx for a second, even the nice parts, because even the nice parts are starting to change. Hell for years, Throggs Neck was considered to be one of the few relatively "safe" areas of the Bronx. While most of the Bronx struggles with the recession and high unemployment, I would imagine that Riverdale has retained a relatively low unemployment rate. Furthermore, we have some of the most educated individuals in terms of degrees and education, so with all of that said it is hard to see Riverdale as "part of the Bronx" when we share practically nothing in common with the borough.

 

 

Why do you have to slander the borough you live in? As much as you don't wan't to admit it, those people that are suffering because of the recession in the "lower" Bronx are just like you, but not as lucky...

 

And don't bring up those hills, it just puts to many... how to put this... "bad" thoughts in my mind...

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Why do you have to slander the borough you live in? As much as you don't wan't to admit it, those people that are suffering because of the recession in the "lower" Bronx are just like you, but not as lucky...

 

And don't bring up those hills, it just puts to many... how to put this... "bad" thoughts in my mind...

 

 

Sorry but it's the truth. For years I wouldn't go past 96th street and now suddenly I would embrace a borough that honestly I used to poke fun at?? The Bronx for me has always been a place that I never thought of venturing to. Just too run down, filthy and crime ridden and what is sad is how few good areas still remain in the Bronx. My friend Angelo is from the Bronx (Pelham Bay) and I'd always make fun of him living there. He has since moved to Westchester not that the neighborhood is changing. I mean think about it though, who in hell would want to associate with the Bronx when they're successful professionally, and live a neighborhood that is nothing like the Bronx?

 

In any event, I know an accountant who works for us that lives in Riverdale and he also puts Riverdale, NY. He would have a heart attack I'm sure if Bronx, NY was listed. The Bronx invokes images of the ghetto, with what a successful professional wants no part of. A neighbor of mine who is an IT guy also says he lives in Riverdale.... He would never say the Bronx.

[Threxx]

Sorry but it's the truth. For years I wouldn't go past 96th street and now suddenly I would embrace a borough that honestly I used to poke fun at?? The Bronx for me has always been a place that I never thought of venturing to. Just too run down, filthy and crime ridden and what is sad is how few good areas still remain in the Bronx. My friend Angelo is from the Bronx (Pelham Bay) and I'd always make fun of him living there. He has since moved to Westchester not that the neighborhood is changing. I mean think about it though, who in hell would want to associate with the Bronx when they're successful professionally, and live a neighborhood that is nothing like the Bronx?

 

In any event, I know an accountant who works for us that lives in Riverdale and he also puts Riverdale, NY. He would have a heart attack I'm sure if Bronx, NY was listed. The Bronx invokes images of the ghetto, with what a successful professional wants no part of. A neighbor of mine who is an IT guy also says he lives in Riverdale.... He would never say the Bronx.

 

 

There is no stopping people like you from looking down on those less fortunate...

 

I'm done with this topic...

[Via Garibaldi 8]

There is no stopping people like you from looking down on those less fortunate...

 

I'm done with this topic...

 

 

It has nothing to do with less fortunate. It has to do with politicians that are doing nothing to improve the Bronx and its image. That's the issue. Instead of propping up Section 8, they should be finding ways to attract working class professionals to the borough and have more cops patrolling to lower the crime levels. That would entice folks to move there.

[MHV9218]

Let's see... Upstairs Riverdale is separated geographically from the rest of the Bronx by the hills... We're the complete opposite of the Bronx... Affluent, some of the lowest crime in the city, some of the best public and private schools in the city and the list goes on and on. I'm one of those folks that proudly puts Riverdale, NY for my mailing address and I wouldn't have it any other way. Riverdale is something to be proud of. We have our own little town up here away from everything and we want nothing to do with the Bronx (particularly its image), hence why I don't venture outside of Riverdale.

 

You just have to listen to yourself. For a minute, please, take your nose out of the air. Just as a favor to all of us.

 

Sorry but it's the truth. For years I wouldn't go past 96th street and now suddenly I would embrace a borough that honestly I used to poke fun at??

 

Revealing.

 

My friend Angelo is from the Bronx (Pelham Bay) and I'd always make fun of him living there.

 

Now that's a mature and respectful thing to do.

 

In any event, I know an accountant who works for us that lives in Riverdale and he also puts Riverdale, NY. He would have a heart attack I'm sure if Bronx, NY was listed. The Bronx invokes images of the ghetto, with what a successful professional wants no part of. A neighbor of mine who is an IT guy also says he lives in Riverdale.... He would never say the Bronx.

 

That's just flat out elitism. My family was a Grand Concourse family for decades and there was no shame. The Bronx does not mean the ghetto. It's all New York.

[MTARegional Bus]

The truth is the Bronx was always a poor borough since the 1920's, even before Latinos and Blacks came into the picture. I guess is just bad luck but one things for sure that this borough will always be a home to many working class immigrant's past, present and future.

 

 

Let's see... Upstairs Riverdale is separated geographically from the rest of the Bronx by the hills... We're the complete opposite of the Bronx... Affluent, some of the lowest crime in the city, some of the best public and private schools in the city and the list goes on and on. I'm one of those folks that proudly puts Riverdale, NY for my mailing address and I wouldn't have it any other way. Riverdale is something to be proud of. We have our own little town up here away from everything and we want nothing to do with the Bronx (particularly its image), hence why I don't venture outside of Riverdale.

 

 

Yet there not proud of being part of Bronx lol, Riverdale will always be part of the Bronx, were the community likes it or not lol.

[IntExp]

I know that Long Island City is starting to gentrify. Lots of new residential skyscrapers are popping up down there, and they are being filled up with rich Latinos, and Whites.

 

L.I.C has been gentrifying for a long time, ever since MoMA P.S. 1 opened up there and began sponsoring the artists that were starting to move there. Of course, it's been much overshadowed by it's much more famous gentrifying neighborhood, Williamsburg. The thing that really set it off, though, was Bloomberg's proposal to have the 2012 Olympics here in the City (which know London is hosting starting next month), and if the Olympics were held her, L.I.C would've been rezoned for high density/mixed use buildings (i.e., condos) to house the athletes (the same thing would've happened in Williamsburg). Of course, we all know the rest: NYC didn't get it, yet the City still rezoned L.I.C. & Williamsburg for high density/mixed use buildings. Now that Williamsburg is getting very pricey, and the fact that those living there have just discovered the , people are starting to move towards L.I.C., since it's still cheaper, and in many ways, the offers a more direct route towards Manhattan.

 

It has nothing to do with less fortunate. It has to do with politicians that are doing nothing to improve the Bronx and its image. That's the issue. Instead of propping up Section 8, they should be finding ways to attract working class professionals to the borough and have more cops patrolling to lower the crime levels. That would entice folks to move there.

 

Sorry, but I have to break with you here, but it has everything to do with the less fortunate. Do you really think that the majority of people would want to live in the South Bronx: of course not. They much rather live in Riverdale, but they don't have the money to do so. Section 8 helps out a lot, because it gives people extra mobility when looking for places to rent, since it allows them to extend the range, even by just a bit. And those people who live in the Bronx- they are working class, they're the ones, along with those who live in other so called undesirable sections, that keep this city moving. And great people have come from so-called getto, for example, like SCOTUS Justice Felix Frankfurter, who came from the L.E.S. while it was still a heavily working class, immigrant neighborhood in the 1900's. In regards to cops, the Precincts that cover the South Bronx: 41, 42, 44 - are some of the most heavily patrolled "Impact" areas - go there and see for yourself.

[B35 via Church]

If you notice, yuppies usually aim to live around waterfront communities/neighborhoods... hence the williamsburg's, the L.I.C.'s, the hoboken's, and of course the granddaddy of em all here in the tri-state area...

 

Manhattan.