New Farebeating Report on Staten Island local buses

[checkmatechamp13]

Amazing how he tries to justify folks stealing... It's like someone robbing someone at gun point vs using a knife. It's still a robbery and this is still stealing. The problem here is that the isn't stepping up and addressing the problem which makes folks feel like it is okay to just walk on. When you have folks doing that then you know that they're not the least bit concerned about any consequences.

 

 

Don't give me that crap. When did I say I was justifying it? I was simply explaining why more people come in the front compared to coming through the back. Geez.

 

.....Because the route is long and annoying! Too much twists and turns for no reason + the school crowds! Ops out of Yukon prefer the 61 over the 44 because its more faster and direct.

 

 

I think they were referring more to the people that ride it, though. As far as the route itself goes, it's actually not too bad with the twists and turns. The S46 is worse because most of its route west of Port Richmond is on residential streets, so you're constantly twisting and turning (especially in the area around Maple Parkway. There are a lot of times when the buses have to wait for each other to pass before one could make the turn because it's all narrow streets). And the passengers on the S46 are definitely worse than those on the S44.

[Cait Sith]

I think they were referring more to the people that ride it, though. As far as the route itself goes, it's actually not too bad with the twists and turns. The S46 is worse because most of its route west of Port Richmond is on residential streets, so you're constantly twisting and turning (especially in the area around Maple Parkway. There are a lot of times when the buses have to wait for each other to pass before one could make the turn because it's all narrow streets). And the passengers on the S46 are definitely worse than those on the S44.

 

 

Yeah, them folks out there are somewhat similar to the S40 crowd, its the annoying bunch that tends to ride that 44. Aside from the obvious crowd complaints, I know 2 drivers that hate the line because of the school crowds/general crowds, the amount of stops and the amount of turns it makes along the route.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Don't give me that crap. When did I say I was justifying it? I was simply explaining why more people come in the front compared to coming through the back. Geez.

 

 

Oh now you have to say that you're justifying farebeating when you've said on numerous occasions that you think transportation should be free and constantly come up with excuses to downplay the problem and justify the farebeaters robbing the system...?? Oh it doesn't cost the that much... Oh it is cheaper to let them farebeat than to enforce the fare... Thinking that transportation should be free is NOT the same as supporting folks stealing rides and stealing from us taxpayers who are the ones that suffer by way of higher fares and less service. No it doesn't cost the that much, because we (the riders) are the ones that suffer. I just find it odd that you sit back and constantly preach about not wasting monetary resources so as to have more monies for the system, but you're fine with folks stealing free rides and depriving the system of monies that it desperately needs.

[checkmatechamp13]

Oh now you have to say that you're justifying farebeating when you've said on numerous occasions that you think transportation should be free and constantly come up with excuses to downplay the problem and justify the farebeaters robbing the system...?? Oh it doesn't cost the that much... Oh it is cheaper to let them farebeat than to enforce the fare... Thinking that transportation should be free is NOT the same as supporting folks stealing rides and stealing from us taxpayers who are the ones that suffer by way of higher fares and less service. No it doesn't cost the that much, because we (the riders) are the ones that suffer. I just find it odd that you sit back and constantly preach about not wasting monetary resources so as to have more monies for the system, but you're fine with folks stealing free rides and depriving the system of monies that it desperately needs.

 

 

You said it yourself: "Thinking that transportation should be free is NOT the same as supporting folks".

 

When did I say "Oh, yes, everybody come on in and get a free ride at the expense of the taxpayer"? That's what "supporting farebeating" is. I just said that if somebody is in true need of a ride, they should just give it to them. If somebody comes on with an attitude and is talking on a cell phone as they walk past the farebox, then yes, they should be kicked off (though it should be done in a way that doesn't slow the bus down for everybody else).

 

But if somebody is destitute and doesn't have money for the bus fare and just takes a seat and stays quiet, then what's the problem? Or if somebody truly did forget their MetroCard and it's a one-time deal then they should be let on (unlike you who says that there should be zero-tolerance enforcement, which means that the person who couldn't get a MetroCard and had to borrow your unlimited would get a summons and have to waste a day going to court to fight it. Yes, that's what zero-tolerance is.)

 

Considering the MTA is a public service agency, providing a free ride is still benefitting a member of the public. If a poor person can't get on te bus, what's the difference? The bus is still going to run anyway.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

You said it yourself: "Thinking that transportation should be free is NOT the same as supporting folks".

 

Don't even try it... That is NOT my full quote... Talk about nerve... What I said was the following:

 

"Thinking that transportation should be free is NOT the same as supporting folks stealing rides and stealing from us taxpayers who are the ones that suffer by way of higher fares and less service"

 

 

When did I say "Oh, yes, everybody come on in and get a free ride at the expense of the taxpayer"? That's what "supporting farebeating" is. I just said that if somebody is in true need of a ride, they should just give it to them. If somebody comes on with an attitude and is talking on a cell phone as they walk past the farebox, then yes, they should be kicked off (though it should be done in a way that doesn't slow the bus down for everybody else).

 

But if somebody is destitute and doesn't have money for the bus fare and just takes a seat and stays quiet, then what's the problem? Or if somebody truly did forget their MetroCard and it's a one-time deal then they should be let on (unlike you who says that there should be zero-tolerance enforcement, which means that the person who couldn't get a MetroCard and had to borrow your unlimited would get a summons and have to waste a day going to court to fight it. Yes, that's what zero-tolerance is.)

 

Considering the MTA is a public service agency, providing a free ride is still benefitting a member of the public. If a poor person can't get on te bus, what's the difference? The bus is still going to run anyway.

 

 

 

Your logic is just UNBELIEVABLE... You sit here and constantly use innuendos that clearly show that you support farebeating and then make comments like if a poor person can't get on the bus what's the difference? The bus is still going to run anyway. Seriously, our public transit system doesn't run on air. It needs MONEY to run and if you've got a bus where 10 - 20 people don't pay that means less revenue for the agency. The buses are not automatic if there is no money to pay for them, but you seem to think that letting "poor people" on the bus (which by the way is a load of BS) is great for the system. We live in a society where everyone pays their fair share. In your world everyone would just mooch off of everyone else.

 

As for your whole poor argument, give me a break. These folks are so "poor", but they got money for cell phones, fancy sneakers and clothing and all of that or better yet money for fast food, so they come on the bus, walk by the farebox, sit down and have their meal on us, then leave their trash all over the place. I don't see elderly folks farebeating. I see young, abled ADULTS mainly who are too lazy to be responsible like the rest of us stealing from the system.

 

And yes, it should be zero tolerance. I've left my Metrocard in another coat pocket accidentally a few times after having switched to another coat and I had to walk back to the house to get it. It's called being responsible. You know you're getting on the bus. You make sure that you have your Metrocard before you leave and I learned the hard way. Now I put my Metrocard right next to my cell phone when I get in, this way I never leave without it.

[checkmatechamp13]

1) Don't even try it... That is NOT my full quote... Talk about nerve... What I said was the following:

 

"Thinking that transportation should be free is NOT the same as supporting folks stealing rides and stealing from us taxpayers who are the ones that suffer by way of higher fares and less service"

 

2) Your logic is just UNBELIEVABLE... You sit here and constantly use innuendos that clearly show that you support farebeating and then make comments like if a poor person can't get on the bus what's the difference? The bus is still going to run anyway. Seriously, our public transit system doesn't run on air. It needs MONEY to run and if you've got a bus where 10 - 20 people don't pay that means less revenue for the agency. The buses are not automatic if there is no money to pay for them, but you seem to think that letting "poor people" on the bus (which by the way is a load of BS) is great for the system. We live in a society where everyone pays their fair share. In your world everyone would just mooch off of everyone else.

 

As for your whole poor argument, give me a break. These folks are so "poor", but they got money for cell phones, fancy sneakers and clothing and all of that or better yet money for fast food, so they come on the bus, walk by the farebox, sit down and have their meal on us, then leave their trash all over the place. I don't see elderly folks farebeating. I see young, abled ADULTS mainly who are too lazy to be responsible like the rest of us stealing from the system.

 

And yes, it should be zero tolerance. I've left my Metrocard in another coat pocket accidentally a few times after having switched to another coat and I had to walk back to the house to get it. It's called being responsible. You know you're getting on the bus. You make sure that you have your Metrocard before you leave and I learned the hard way. Now I put my Metrocard right next to my cell phone when I get in, this way I never leave without it.

 

 

1) Geez. I made a mistake when copying the quote and erased the part about stealing rides (and don't give me that crap again). I'm only human. I meant to only take out the part about the taxpayers because you always bring that up ("Oh, they should run a ton of empty buses in my neighborhood because I pay taxes"). So the quote should be read "Thinking that transportation should be free is NOT the same as supporting folks stealing rides"

 

Because "Thinking that transportation should be free is NOT the same as supporting folks" really makes a whole lot of sense, doesn't it????? And in any case, does it really change the meaning of what I said just because I left out part of the quote?

 

2) Alright. I hope you enjoy seeing more service cuts because if those people don't ride the bus, guess what? The MTA doesn't get the money anyway and aside from that the ridership numbers decrease and it makes it a lot easier to justify more cuts.

 

And yes, Everybody farebeating gets on with fancy sneakers, a cell phone in hand, and sits down and eats their fast food meal. Suuuuure. And are you blind because I said that if you have fast food or a cell phone in hand you shouldn't be allowed on the bus.

 

And if it's zero tolerance, you would've been fined for selling a swipe on your MetroCard to that girl on the X10. She didn't have a MetroCard on her, it was her responsibility to get one, and you profited off of her not having a MetroCard when that $5.50 should've gone to the MTA. The same thing for that woman on the X16 or whatever. She should've had the MetroCard the day before and again, the MTA should've gotten money from that swipe. You want zero tolerance, you got zero tolerance. You said yourself "Oh, they should just have zero tolerance without excuses and then you avoid worrying about who was doing the right thing or not" and even if they dismiss the charges, you'd still have to take a day off from work to fight them.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

2) Alright. I hope you enjoy seeing more service cuts because if those people don't ride the bus, guess what? The MTA doesn't get the money anyway and aside from that the ridership numbers decrease and it makes it a lot easier to justify more cuts.

 

How is it harder to justify cutting a bus with a bunch of deadbeats who are stealing rides?? I'd like you to explain that because I'm having a hard time understanding that.

 

And yes, Everybody farebeating gets on with fancy sneakers, a cell phone in hand, and sits down and eats their fast food meal. Suuuuure. And are you blind because I said that if you have fast food or a cell phone in hand you shouldn't be allowed on the bus.

 

Yes, because guess what... I've saw actual bums get on the bus on a few occasions (Q32 most recently) and they paid, so these so called "poor folks" that you keep harping on as if they're soooo destitute is a bunch of BS because I don't see them. I'd like to know where they're at because the majority that I see look like the folks I described earlier, but you keep claiming that there's these poor destitute folks getting on...

 

And if it's zero tolerance, you would've been fined for selling a swipe on your MetroCard to that girl on the X10. She didn't have a MetroCard on her, it was her responsibility to get one, and you profited off of her not having a MetroCard when that $5.50 should've gone to the MTA. The same thing for that woman on the X16 or whatever. She should've had the MetroCard the day before and again, the MTA should've gotten money from that swipe. You want zero tolerance, you got zero tolerance. You said yourself "Oh, they should just have zero tolerance without excuses and then you avoid worrying about who was doing the right thing or not" and even if they dismiss the charges, you'd still have to take a day off from work to fight them.

 

 

Forgetting your Metrocard at home is completely different from there being no stores or machines that have Metrocards so don't even try it. Both women HAD the money to pay. There is a difference between having money to pay but there being no stores around that have Metrocards. It happened to me. I forgot my Metrocard one Saturday and took car service to the X10 and didn't realize it until I got to the bus stop. No stores had a Metrocard that usually sell them (sold out), but luckily I was able get case quarters. You're trying to compare people who purposely farebeat to folks who can't get a Metrocard because the stores doesn't have them?? You've got to be joking. The is supposed to make sure that Metrocards are accessible.

[B35 via Church]

How is it harder to justify cutting a bus with a bunch of deadbeats who are stealing rides?? I'd like you to explain that because I'm having a hard time understanding that.

 

From what I gather, the notion that farebeating riders still account for a route's ridership......

If you want zero tolerance, a route's ridership wanes....

 

Waning ridership on a route makes that route easier to cut.... Saying it another way, the overall ridership a route currently has (which includes farebeaters) makes a route harder to cut, since the route has the ridership to keep the route afloat, partially b/c of the farebeaters......

 

Personally I think it's a silly argument, but whatever.....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

From what I gather, the notion that farebeating riders still account for a route's ridership......

If you want zero tolerance, a route's ridership wanes....

 

Waning ridership on a route makes that route easier to cut.... Saying it another way, the overall ridership a route currently has (which includes farebeaters) makes a route harder to cut, since the route has the ridership to keep the route afloat, partially b/c of the farebeaters......

 

Personally I think it's a silly argument, but whatever.....

 

 

Exactly because I thought he was the one that said the only considers those who pay to be counted as actual passengers when considering service improvements or slashes, hence my confusion.

[checkmatechamp13]

1) Yes, because guess what... I've saw actual bums get on the bus on a few occasions (Q32 most recently) and they paid, so these so called "poor folks" that you keep harping on as if they're soooo destitute is a bunch of BS because I don't see them. I'd like to know where they're at because the majority that I see look like the folks I described earlier, but you keep claiming that there's these poor destitute folks getting on...

 

2) Forgetting your Metrocard at home is completely different from there being no stores or machines that have Metrocards so don't even try it. Both women HAD the money to pay. There is a difference between having money to pay but there being no stores around that have Metrocards. It happened to me. I forgot my Metrocard one Saturday and took car service to the X10 and didn't realize it until I got to the bus stop. No stores had a Metrocard that usually sell them (sold out), but luckily I was able get case quarters. You're trying to compare people who purposely farebeat to folks who can't get a Metrocard because the stores doesn't have them?? You've got to be joking. The is supposed to make sure that Metrocards are accessible.

 

 

1) Alright, and I've seen bums get on without paying as well. I remember seeing an older-looking one at Morningstar & Forest and some at Port Richmond & Castleton recently.

 

2) It doesn't matter. That's what zero tolerance is. You don't have a MetroCard, you get a summons. Now, it could end up like on the +SBS+ routes where the machine was broken and they let the people go, but then the people still wasted time in court.

 

And East NY mentioned a time when he was running late and forgot his MetroCard and had the B/O not let him on, he would've been late for work and been fired. In case you forgot, if you get fired, you can't pay taxes now can you? Zero tolerance would've meant that he would've had to face the choice between getting fired or getting a summons (and aside from that, it was an Unlimited MetroCard). Do you honestly think that's right for him to get fined for an honest mistake? Because that's what zero tolerance is.

 

Exactly because I thought he was the one that said the only considers those who pay to be counted as actual passengers when considering service improvements or slashes, hence my confusion.

 

 

No, I actually said the exact opposite. I said that when the MTA has the internal numbers that they actually use to determine whether to keep a route or not, those numbers include farebeaters (assuming of course that the B/O presses F5). But when they release the numbers to the public they don't include non-paying riders. And then you started arguing with me about traffic checkers and whether or not they count farebeaters, and I said that it looked like they were being counted (and BrooklynBus said it's up to the traffic checker)

[checkmatechamp13]

Yeah, them folks out there are somewhat similar to the S40 crowd, its the annoying bunch that tends to ride that 44. Aside from the obvious crowd complaints, I know 2 drivers that hate the line because of the school crowds/general crowds, the amount of stops and the amount of turns it makes along the route.

 

 

Well, I don't think the number of stops is really an issue. The stops are fairly spaced apart and there are a lot of stops that don't see a lot of usage, so the B/O can just fly by them, especially along Henderson Avenue and some parts of Richmond Avenue. (Of course, then the issue is that sometimes they get ahead of schedule and have to wait)

 

And now that I think about it, I think the reason why the S40 is a little bit less rowdy is because it's infrequent and also it doesn't serve as many destinations, so more of the people who ride actually have to get somewhere fast (I mean, to get from Mariners' Harbor to the ferry, it's a lot faster than the S46 or S48). If the bus is more frequent (like the S46), you'll probably see more people taking it to hang out with their friends, or for some other pointless purpose. That, and the S40 doesn't really serve as many schoolkids.

[Cait Sith]

You both need to get a room!

[MattTrain]

The fact that the bus operator is powerless against fare-evaders (and the violent outbursts against them that resulted from arguments over the fare) disturbs me the most. It's basically like you can "waltz" on a bus you have less chances of reprimand by police officers or other law enforcers, than a jump on the turnstile for instance.

[Noflexdont]

The fact that the bus operator is powerless against fare-evaders (and the violent outbursts against them that resulted from arguments over the fare) disturbs me the most. It's basically like you can "waltz" on a bus you have less chances of reprimand by police officers or other law enforcers, than a jump on the turnstile for instance.

 

We are told to do nothing, not even state the required fare anymore. I have asked Police Officers there opinion on the matter and they say there are bigger fish to fry. So the MTA and NYPD really don't care about the fare beating. I know that it bothers alot of people when they see people waltz right on the bus. What would be funny is if someone made a citizens arrest to finally say hey us paying people are not going to take it anymore or even better as a sign of protest have no one pay for the bus period. once the MTA starts losing large sums of money they have to do something about the matter, don't you think?

 

(i don't condone anyone to break any laws, statues, acts or any thing that is illegal.)

[Mtatransit]

Not just staten island other bourghs too I see it alot people just walk stright by.

[qjtransitmaster]

here is a solution to farebeating intentionally screw the schedule and miss the ferry on purpose make those asswipes sit and rot for 30 plus mins. reduce service pull buses from runs then put em elsewhere just to screw em over

[qjtransitmaster]

another way to fry farebeaters eliminate paper transfers this makes farebeating impossible for those taking 2 or more buses cause the chances of the 2nd driver letting em on are real low cause not all buses are equal.

[qjtransitmaster]

sometimes if one enters through back door I kick em off literally and the fools wanna know why buses just drive off and strand their ungrateful asses

[NYCtrainfan01]

here is a solution to farebeating intentionally screw the schedule and miss the ferry on purpose make those asswipes sit and rot for 30 plus mins. reduce service pull buses from runs then put em elsewhere just to screw em over

 

By doing this you screw over riders who did pay their fare and riders who need the ferry... No way this is happening dude.

 

another way to fry farebeaters eliminate paper transfers this makes farebeating impossible for those taking 2 or more buses cause the chances of the 2nd driver letting em on are real low cause not all buses are equal.

 

Again screwing over riders who paid their fares.... Seriously, think before you post dude.

 

sometimes if one enters through back door I kick em off literally and the fools wanna know why buses just drive off and strand their ungrateful asses

 

Honestly if you keep doing that, your ass is going to get kicked...

[checkmatechamp13]

By doing this you screw over riders who did pay their fare and riders who need the ferry... No way this is happening dude.

 

Again screwing over riders who paid their fares.... Seriously, think before you post dude.

 

Honestly if you keep doing that, your ass is going to get kicked...

 

 

And aside from that, most of the riders at the ferry pay. Most farebeaters are intra-SI riders.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

And aside from that, most of the riders at the ferry pay. Most farebeaters are intra-SI riders.

 

 

Oh yeah??? Based on what facts?? I've witnessed quite a few riders get on at the ferry and not pay. The most infamous farebeating incident I remember happened at the ferry on the S48. Black guy got on and refused to pay. The B/O (Hispanic guy) refused to move the bus. Passengers started becoming irritated and another black guy got up and literally wrestled the guy off of the bus. LOL Apparently he had been getting on and not paying for a while and the B/O got sick of it and decided to take a stand.

[checkmatechamp13]

Oh yeah??? Based on what facts?? I've witnessed quite a few riders get on at the ferry and not pay. The most infamous farebeating incident I remember happened at the ferry on the S48. Black guy got on and refused to pay. The B/O (Hispanic guy) refused to move the bus. Passengers started becoming irritated and another black guy got up and literally wrestled the guy off of the bus. LOL Apparently he had been getting on and not paying for a while and the B/O got sick of it and decided to take a stand.

 

 

Yeah, and I've witnessed a lot of riders get on at points besides the ferry and not pay. You have a ton of people getting on at the ferry and only a few don't pay. Compare that to once you get outside the terminal where the chances of somebody not paying increase.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Yeah, and I've witnessed a lot of riders get on at points besides the ferry and not pay. You have a ton of people getting on at the ferry and only a few don't pay. Compare that to once you get outside the terminal where the chances of somebody not paying increase.

 

 

As usual... Always downplaying farebeating... You still didn't show any evidence to support your intra-borough SI farebeaters comment....

[checkmatechamp13]

What the hell does this have to do with downplaying anything. I'm saying it's higher outside of St. George than at the terminal. How does that downplay anything?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

What the hell does this have to do with downplaying anything. I'm saying it's higher outside of St. George than at the terminal. How does that downplay anything?

 

 

Simple... You always find a way to downplay subjects that deal with farebeating... Oh it's only a few riders at St. George as if that's not a big deal... You should see how many get on outside of the terminal. We shouldn't be having this conversation period, because there should be NONE... Cero... ¡¡Nada!!