Via Garibaldi 8 Posted May 13, 2012 Share #1 Posted May 13, 2012 http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2012/05/brazen_bus_riders_dont_pay_the.html I'm not looking to rehash the whole farebeating argument about them paying, but rather I have some other questions. Why would the be so reluctant to release the numbers on farebeaters? Are bus drivers now using lines that the ones in the report about there possibly being undercover cops on board?? I ask because a few B/Os have said that cops have been making busts of farebeaters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threxx Posted May 13, 2012 Share #2 Posted May 13, 2012 http://www.silive.co...nt_pay_the.html I'm not looking to rehash the whole farebeating argument about them paying, but rather I have some other questions. Why would the be so reluctant to release the numbers on farebeaters? Are bus drivers now using lines that the ones in the report about there possibly being undercover cops on board?? I ask because a few B/Os have said that cops have been making busts of farebeaters. The will probably receive a lot of heat about this, mostly people saying to increase patrols on buses. Undercover and uniformed cops have been making their way around buses in all 5 boroughs more often now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted May 13, 2012 Author Share #3 Posted May 13, 2012 The will probably receive a lot of heat about this, mostly people saying to increase patrols on buses. Undercover and uniformed cops have been making their way around buses in all 5 boroughs more often now... lol... It seems like to me they're in denial about it though... You've got an increase in farebeating and an increase in violence against bus drivers. That is not just a coincidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted May 13, 2012 Share #4 Posted May 13, 2012 Remember before when they said that they lose $27 million? So that's about 18 million farebeaters per year (they divide by something like $1.50 because they assume some of them would've transferred or whatever. Take that up with the MTA, not me). So take 18 million and divide it by whatever the annual ridership is and you have your answer. I think they came up with something like a 6% fare evasion rate on the buses. As for the line the B/Os use, I haven't noticed any B/Os say anything. I just know one B/O on the S44 and a girl gets on at the same stop and says "I don't have a MetroCard", he says "Get one." and one time he added "One day you're not going to be able to get on the bus", but nobody ever mentioned anything about an undercover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted May 13, 2012 Author Share #5 Posted May 13, 2012 Remember before when they said that they lose $27 million? So that's about 18 million farebeaters per year (they divide by something like $1.50 because they assume some of them would've transferred or whatever. Take that up with the MTA, not me). So take 18 million and divide it by whatever the annual ridership is and you have your answer. I think they came up with something like a 6% fare evasion rate on the buses. As for the line the B/Os use, I haven't noticed any B/Os say anything. I just know one B/O on the S44 and a girl gets on at the same stop and says "I don't have a MetroCard", he says "Get one." and one time he added "One day you're not going to be able to get on the bus", but nobody ever mentioned anything about an undercover. From this article though, it seems like that stat is much higher... One poster gave a great idea on the Silive website though... Let the B/Os have a button that can take photos of the farebeaters which can then be sent to the police. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted May 14, 2012 Share #6 Posted May 14, 2012 By the way, I realized that they said the S54 starts at Castleton & Broadway. I also noticed that they consider 18,000 riders a year out of 17 million (about a 0.1% fare evasion rate) on the same level as an 18% fare evasion rate. That, and the fact that they said 3 +SBS+ routes have been running since 2008. And apparently 82 + 15 = 100 now. Fine reporting as usual... As for the article, it could just be the time of day they picked. A lot of times, students going home from school don't dip in a Student MetroCard, so that could be part of it. (they said they rode from 11:00 - 17:45). Make sure you're on a route that passes by a school at 3PM and voila. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted May 14, 2012 Author Share #7 Posted May 14, 2012 By the way, I realized that they said the S54 starts at Castleton & Broadway. I also noticed that they consider 18,000 riders a year out of 17 million (about a 0.1% fare evasion rate) on the same level as an 18% fare evasion rate. That, and the fact that they said 3 +SBS+ routes have been running since 2008. And apparently 82 + 15 = 100 now. Fine reporting as usual... As for the article, it could just be the time of day they picked. A lot of times, students going home from school don't dip in a Student MetroCard, so that could be part of it. (they said they rode from 11:00 - 17:45). Make sure you're on a route that passes by a school at 3PM and voila. Yeah well I don't buy that. You keep talking about how the farebeaters on Staten Island are mainly students and that is not necessarily the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Sith Posted May 14, 2012 Share #8 Posted May 14, 2012 Yeah well I don't buy that. You keep talking about how the farebeaters on Staten Island are mainly students and that is not necessarily the case. I agree, I even see ADULTS farebeating too....I'm at S.I often enough to see both students and adults farebeating...the S53 & S46 (yuck) usually tells the story....they either waltz right in or make some bs excuse to the operator.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1447 Posted May 14, 2012 Share #9 Posted May 14, 2012 If there is no law enforcement around, then I standby the drivers who don't want to get assaulted. The MTA needs to WAKE UP and start making some changes to reduce fare evasion. There is more enforcement in the Subway compared to the Bus system! Seems like what most drivers should do is not let people exit thru the back when it comes to a major stop. That way, no one fare beats thru the rear. Even tho it won't stop some from bypassing the drivers. Might anger passengers, but surely will force people to pay up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeystoneRegional Posted May 14, 2012 Share #10 Posted May 14, 2012 I like how Nassau does it [during Long Island Bus times], the B/O doesn't move until that passenger pays from their own pockets. And if the passenger refuses, he or she is called in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted May 14, 2012 Author Share #11 Posted May 14, 2012 I agree, I even see ADULTS farebeating too....I'm at S.I often enough to see both students and adults farebeating...the S53 & S46 (yuck) usually tells the story....they either waltz right in or make some bs excuse to the operator.... Yep... I wish he would stop downplaying it... The S53 is actually "tame" in terms of farebeating compared to some routes, but I'll tell you the worse lines often times are the S44, S46 and S48. Now one thing that I do notice is that if you have say one person get on with some BS excuse it will encourage others to get right on as well and do the same thing. Saw it happen at Hylan & Clove on the S53. The B/O sat back sort of like okay let's hear your BS excuse but at that stop several ADULTS got on (albeit young ones), but they either got on with an excuse or they drop in a few dimes or something. I personally can see the situation getting worse because there will be another fare hike next year and if folks can't afford $2.25 what are they going to do when it goes up? At some point you have to think that folks will become increasingly frustrated seeing hoards of folks get on and just casually walk by the farebox and have a seat as if the buses are free. All it does is make the fare more expensive for the ever shrinking population of folks that do pay. I actually took MetroNorth in this morning from Spuyten Duyvil and I had my ticket and all but an older white women across from me didn't and had to pay on board, but I was wondering what would happen if someone got on and didn't pay? Are those ticket collectors armed or anything? Interesting to note that many folks say that when the farecollectors were on the SIR, the riff raff was much lower, so I think that if they just stepped up patrols on the buses you would see an immediate decrease in farebeating and a decrease in violence on the buses as well. The cameras are a waste since most don't work. Use that money to have transit cops patrol the buses and give the B/Os a button that can take the farebeaters picture if they don't pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amtrak7 Posted May 14, 2012 Share #12 Posted May 14, 2012 I always thought the big problem with farebeating is entering through the back door, not "walking by" the farebox... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted May 14, 2012 Author Share #13 Posted May 14, 2012 I always thought the big problem with farebeating is entering through the back door, not "walking by" the farebox... Not on Staten Island... IMO I used to see that more in Brooklyn back in the day. On Staten Island, folks are much more bolder. It's almost as if it is the norm because they don't expect anything to happen to them and that's when you know that folks are becoming bolder. Why should I sneak through the backdoor and risk the chance of messing up my "fancy" Air Jordan's or dropping my cell phone when I can just calmly walk through the front door, ignore the B/O and help myself to a seat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted May 14, 2012 Share #14 Posted May 14, 2012 I agree, I even see ADULTS farebeating too....I'm at S.I often enough to see both students and adults farebeating...the S53 & S46 (yuck) usually tells the story....they either waltz right in or make some bs excuse to the operator.... I never said it was all students, but you have to admit, most of them are fairly young (maybe 25 or less). Of course, you do have older people who farebeat, but most of them are fairly young. Seems like what most drivers should do is not let people exit thru the back when it comes to a major stop. That way, no one fare beats thru the rear. Even tho it won't stop some from bypassing the drivers. Might anger passengers, but surely will force people to pay up. I like how Nassau does it [during Long Island Bus times], the B/O doesn't move until that passenger pays from their own pockets. And if the passenger refuses, he or she is called in. I guess neither of you actually, ya know, have places to be. I actually took MetroNorth in this morning from Spuyten Duyvil and I had my ticket and all but an older white women across from me didn't and had to pay on board, but I was wondering what would happen if someone got on and didn't pay? Are those ticket collectors armed or anything? Interesting to note that many folks say that when the farecollectors were on the SIR, the riff raff was much lower, so I think that if they just stepped up patrols on the buses you would see an immediate decrease in farebeating and a decrease in violence on the buses as well. They're supposed to take down their information and give them some kind of "Invoice for Fare Not Paid". I always thought the big problem with farebeating is entering through the back door, not "walking by" the farebox... It's kind of hard to enter through the back door if it's a little stop. If you're the only one waiting at the stop, what are you supposed to do if you want a free ride? Say "Could you open the back door so I can sneak in through there?". Even if there's 1 or 2 people getting off through the back door, it's pretty obvious if you're waiting at the stop and then move towards the back door when the bus pulls in (I have seen people do it once or twice, and the B/O just pressed F5). And since SI routes tend to have lower ridership, there are more of those lower-use stops (for instance, if Richmond Terrace & Park Avenue were in Brooklyn, it would probably see more riders and you'd probably see more people sneaking in the back door at that stop.) Now, if it's a stop with major turnover (where you have a bunch of people exiting through the back door), then yes, you will see some people come in through the back. Don't think somehow SI farebeaters are somehow different from those in the other boroughs. (Like somehow they all have fancy sneakers and cell phones. SMH) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S78 via Hylan Posted May 14, 2012 Share #15 Posted May 14, 2012 They should just have undercover cops on the routes that get the most farebeaters or depending on how bad it is, real cops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threxx Posted May 14, 2012 Share #16 Posted May 14, 2012 The camera thing is ok, except that all the buses need cameras so it can take the still from multiple angles, so if the person gets on through the back, the cameras can pick them up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Sith Posted May 15, 2012 Share #17 Posted May 15, 2012 I never said it was all students, but you have to admit, most of them are fairly young (maybe 25 or less). Of course, you do have older people who farebeat, but most of them are fairly young. Point noted. I would say that the highest in terms of age would be like 30 or so. Usually I don't see anyone older farebeating. Yep... I wish he would stop downplaying it... The S53 is actually "tame" in terms of farebeating compared to some routes, but I'll tell you the worse lines often times are the S44, S46 and S48. Now one thing that I do notice is that if you have say one person get on with some BS excuse it will encourage others to get right on as well and do the same thing. Saw it happen at Hylan & Clove on the S53. The B/O sat back sort of like okay let's hear your BS excuse but at that stop several ADULTS got on (albeit young ones), but they either got on with an excuse or they drop in a few dimes or something. I personally can see the situation getting worse because there will be another fare hike next year and if folks can't afford $2.25 what are they going to do when it goes up? At some point you have to think that folks will become increasingly frustrated seeing hoards of folks get on and just casually walk by the farebox and have a seat as if the buses are free. All it does is make the fare more expensive for the ever shrinking population of folks that do pay. I actually took MetroNorth in this morning from Spuyten Duyvil and I had my ticket and all but an older white women across from me didn't and had to pay on board, but I was wondering what would happen if someone got on and didn't pay? Are those ticket collectors armed or anything? Interesting to note that many folks say that when the farecollectors were on the SIR, the riff raff was much lower, so I think that if they just stepped up patrols on the buses you would see an immediate decrease in farebeating and a decrease in violence on the buses as well. I don't take the S44, that line is too long and annoying for me to even deal with. If I'm ever headed to the mall, its either the 61 or SIR > S59/S79, but I get what you mean. That S46 though....the times I've taken that bus home from Castleton/Clove, 75% of the time between that block and St. George, its all farebeaters....they should do like what they were doing in The Bronx, have some sort of enforcement on the S.I routes because fare beating in that borough is a plague! I was on a Bx15 a day or two ago and they had transit cops standing by the doors. You're right though about the S53, once it gets off of Castleton Avenue and the lil stint it has along the S.I Expressway to Hylan Blvd, its pretty clear sailing after that. Another route that sees high levels of farebeating would be the S40, between that and the S66 which are my two most used routes on the island, the S40 I always see with farebeaters, especially going to St. George. As for Metro North, I would think its either A. They get ejected from the train B. They call the cops on the passenger for refusing to pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted May 15, 2012 Share #18 Posted May 15, 2012 I always thought the big problem with farebeating is entering through the back door, not "walking by" the farebox... lol... as Via said, muggs is bold out in SI w/ the farebeating.... They'll walk by the [b/o] / [farebox] as if the fare is free - just like they would entering the ferry.... And I'm someone that lives by two routes that are plagued by farebeating (B35, B46) saying that.... Don't think somehow SI farebeaters are somehow different from those in the other boroughs. Sure, the farebeaters themselves aren't different..... the boldness of their farebeating however, is... You don't see near as many farebeaters in the other boroughs just freely (pun unintended) & nonchalantly walkin by the b/o as if the fare listing on the farebox reads $0.00.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted May 15, 2012 Share #19 Posted May 15, 2012 I don't take the S44, that line is too long and annoying for me to even deal with. If I'm ever headed to the mall, its either the 61 or SIR > S59/S79, but I get what you mean. That S46 though....the times I've taken that bus home from Castleton/Clove, 75% of the time between that block and St. George, its all farebeaters....they should do like what they were doing in The Bronx, have some sort of enforcement on the S.I routes because fare beating in that borough is a plague! The only reason to take the S44 out to the SI Mall is if you're busfanning for the hell of it. If you actually have to get somewhere on time, that's the last route you should take to the mall. The SIR-S59/79/89 is only fast during rush hour with the express trains. Otherwise, you're just better off with the S61. In any case, you're right about the S46, but the S40 doesn't really see a whole lot of farebeating when I ride it. I actually overheard 2 B/Os talking once on the S46, and the one who was driving said "This is why I hate driving this route" (after like 4 or 5 crazy-looking kids got on and started making a big deal and everything. One of them took an expired transfer or something and put it in the farebox and another one said "Oh my God, he banged his head open" or something like that, and the B/O just told them to keep it moving and just take a seat). But anyway, the one sitting down said "Anything with a 40 in it", and the one driving the bus said "Actually, the 40 isn't too bad". I'm surprised a lot of drivers hate the S44, since it doesn't seem like too bad a bus whenever I ride it (and I ride it almost every day). Sure, the farebeaters themselves aren't different..... the boldness of their farebeating however, is... You don't see near as many farebeaters in the other boroughs just freely (pun unintended) & nonchalantly walkin by the b/o as if the fare listing on the farebox reads $0.00.... But the thing is, like I said, a lot of it has to do with the difficulty of doing it any other way. Coming in through the back is only going to work at a busy stop. As for coming through the front, I guess because so many people came up with excuses and the B/Os let them on, a lot of them don't see the point in wasting their breath: They're going to be let on anyway, so what's the point in thinking of an excuse and wasting time? Just mumble "I don't have a MetroCard" (if even that) and get on. I will say, though that I have been seeing more people get on with phones in their hands and things like that, compared to years prior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted May 15, 2012 Author Share #20 Posted May 15, 2012 The only reason to take the S44 out to the SI Mall is if you're busfanning for the hell of it. If you actually have to get somewhere on time, that's the last route you should take to the mall. The SIR-S59/79/89 is only fast during rush hour with the express trains. Otherwise, you're just better off with the S61. In any case, you're right about the S46, but the S40 doesn't really see a whole lot of farebeating when I ride it. I actually overheard 2 B/Os talking once on the S46, and the one who was driving said "This is why I hate driving this route" (after like 4 or 5 crazy-looking kids got on and started making a big deal and everything. One of them took an expired transfer or something and put it in the farebox and another one said "Oh my God, he banged his head open" or something like that, and the B/O just told them to keep it moving and just take a seat). But anyway, the one sitting down said "Anything with a 40 in it", and the one driving the bus said "Actually, the 40 isn't too bad". I'm surprised a lot of drivers hate the S44, since it doesn't seem like too bad a bus whenever I ride it (and I ride it almost every day). But the thing is, like I said, a lot of it has to do with the difficulty of doing it any other way. Coming in through the back is only going to work at a busy stop. As for coming through the front, I guess because so many people came up with excuses and the B/Os let them on, a lot of them don't see the point in wasting their breath: They're going to be let on anyway, so what's the point in thinking of an excuse and wasting time? Just mumble "I don't have a MetroCard" (if even that) and get on. I will say, though that I have been seeing more people get on with phones in their hands and things like that, compared to years prior. LOL... The difficulty of doing it any other way... They are just BOLD period... Having an uncle that is a B/O, some B/Os take it personally and rightfully so. They look at it as their bus and as a serious form of disrespect and some of them do have a talk with the farebeaters just out of sheer disgust for their behavior. I mean it is hard to see someone get on your bus walk by you like you don't exist and just take a seat. So rude... Really... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted May 15, 2012 Share #21 Posted May 15, 2012 And when did I deny that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted May 15, 2012 Share #22 Posted May 15, 2012 But the thing is, like I said, a lot of it has to do with the difficulty of doing it any other way. Coming in through the back is only going to work at a busy stop. As for coming through the front, I guess because so many people came up with excuses and the B/Os let them on, a lot of them don't see the point in wasting their breath: They're going to be let on anyway, so what's the point in thinking of an excuse and wasting time? Just mumble "I don't have a MetroCard" (if even that) and get on. I will say, though that I have been seeing more people get on with phones in their hands and things like that, compared to years prior. You can apply as much lipstick on the pig as you want.... I personally don't care why they don't use the back more to farebeat.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted May 15, 2012 Author Share #23 Posted May 15, 2012 You can apply as much lipstick on the pig as you want.... I personally don't care why they don't use the back more to farebeat.... Amazing how he tries to justify folks stealing... It's like someone robbing someone at gun point vs using a knife. It's still a robbery and this is still stealing. The problem here is that the isn't stepping up and addressing the problem which makes folks feel like it is okay to just walk on. When you have folks doing that then you know that they're not the least bit concerned about any consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future ENY OP Posted May 15, 2012 Share #24 Posted May 15, 2012 I'm going to say this. Farebeating buses is not only Staten Island wide, its citywide. I just get tired of sneaking at the back of buses. You don't know when the cops will come on the bus and pull you off. This is why I'm in favor for the fines to be raised up to $500. I think people will now think twice when they hop over the turnstyle or back on that back of the bus. needs to do better with this issue. Deploy plainclothes officers on buses, and trains to catch the deterent. Deploy in KEY locations throughout the city. With the deployment of +SBS+, this may solve the problem, but also if you set up POS systems through key locations throughout the city, and have plainclothes cops monitor passengers movements, and catch deterents who are cheating the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Sith Posted May 15, 2012 Share #25 Posted May 15, 2012 I'm going to say this. Farebeating buses is not only Staten Island wide, its citywide. Which is true, but I think Staten Island has it worst than the other boroughs. I'm surprised a lot of drivers hate the S44, since it doesn't seem like too bad a bus whenever I ride it (and I ride it almost every day). .....Because the route is long and annoying! Too much twists and turns for no reason + the school crowds! Ops out of Yukon prefer the 61 over the 44 because its more faster and direct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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