Brooklyn Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[BreeddekalbL]

b15 ltd stops to jfk 

b15 ltd stop bus  buses make local stops from the hospital to bergen and rochester and from elderts to jfk terminal 5

ltd route routed off of hegman and new lots to make service faster  free transfer to jfk buses would be allowed at linden and eldert lane

buses will be allowed to use the inner lanes of linden till before eldert stop 

https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&gl=us&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&msa=0&msid=218345366120084192601.0004eaf36aa5d7af1b10c

 

wanted to see what you guys would say and will modify as seen fit and add more stops

[Acela Express]

 

Prepayment? This should be implemented at all busy transfer points, with slips shown to the driver when they're available (they would need to make text on the slips bigger, because those things look like they're in 8 pt font...)

 

SBS is just a scheme to make the feds pay for capital improvements, and so far, it appears to be working.

That, actually, would be a waste of time, though the theory 'sounds' doable, you can't have both paying-at-the-farebox passengers and also ticket passengers boarding the same bus, as it would cause confusion, and folks really would take advantage of this honor system. It's either one or the other. There's a reason for pre-boarding payment methods, to allow the agents to work thoroughly in catching farebeaters and such.

[aemoreira81]

B45 proposal---extension to the East New York Depot.

 

Currently, the eastern end of the B45 is in Crown Heights, at St. John's and Ralph, after curving up to serve the Kingsborough Houses and the now-closed St. Mary's Hospital. However, with that hospital now closed, I see no need for an end there...and considering that the B45 could do better on its eastern end, I would propose this extension, to end at the front door to the depot. It would not be a straight shot, keeping in mind the commercial district slightly east.

 

From downtown: via St. John's Place---do not make the left onto Buffalo Avenue. Instead, continue on St. John's Place onto Ralph Avenue, then make a right. Turn left at Eastern Parkway, and then veer right at the fork onto Pitkin Avenue. Continue on Pitkin Avenue to Mother Gaston Boulevard, and then turn left. Turn right at East New York Avenue, and then follow the B12 to its last stop at the East New York Depot, and layover at the depot.

 

To downtown: Depart the East New York Depot, follow the B12 to Mother Gaston Boulevard, and then: left at Mother Gaston, right at Pitkin, right at Howard, and left onto St. John's Place.

 

If it sounds like a restoration of sorts of the former B40, it is because it is...but along a route that actually serves where people need to go. New customer bases would come from giving residents along the St. John's Place and Eastern Parkway corridor access to the Pitkin Avenue shopping corridor (which is why I propose running it along Pitkin instead of a straight shot along East New York Avenue). The northern portion of the Howard Houses would also gain easier access to that shopping district. While the route would be longer and buses would be on the road for more times, that should be mostly offset by the elimination of all deadhead distance.

[bobtehpanda]

That, actually, would be a waste of time, though the theory 'sounds' doable, you can't have both paying-at-the-farebox passengers and also ticket passengers boarding the same bus, as it would cause confusion, and folks really would take advantage of this honor system. It's either one or the other. There's a reason for pre-boarding payment methods, to allow the agents to work thoroughly in catching farebeaters and such.

 

I'm not advocating for SBS-style boarding at certain stops; I'm talking about machines printing a very visible slip so that the driver can quickly spot-check as people board at the front, as is done on lesser bus systems around the world. Even if everyone were to board at the front, it would save a significant amount of time; Metrocard fareboxes are very slow.

[BrooklynBus]

B45 proposal---extension to the East New York Depot.

 

Currently, the eastern end of the B45 is in Crown Heights, at St. John's and Ralph, after curving up to serve the Kingsborough Houses and the now-closed St. Mary's Hospital. However, with that hospital now closed, I see no need for an end there...and considering that the B45 could do better on its eastern end, I would propose this extension, to end at the front door to the depot. It would not be a straight shot, keeping in mind the commercial district slightly east.

 

From downtown: via St. John's Place---do not make the left onto Buffalo Avenue. Instead, continue on St. John's Place onto Ralph Avenue, then make a right. Turn left at Eastern Parkway, and then veer right at the fork onto Pitkin Avenue. Continue on Pitkin Avenue to Mother Gaston Boulevard, and then turn left. Turn right at East New York Avenue, and then follow the B12 to its last stop at the East New York Depot, and layover at the depot.

 

To downtown: Depart the East New York Depot, follow the B12 to Mother Gaston Boulevard, and then: left at Mother Gaston, right at Pitkin, right at Howard, and left onto St. John's Place.

 

If it sounds like a restoration of sorts of the former B40, it is because it is...but along a route that actually serves where people need to go. New customer bases would come from giving residents along the St. John's Place and Eastern Parkway corridor access to the Pitkin Avenue shopping corridor (which is why I propose running it along Pitkin instead of a straight shot along East New York Avenue). The northern portion of the Howard Houses would also gain easier access to that shopping district. While the route would be longer and buses would be on the road for more times, that should be mostly offset by the elimination of all deadhead distance.

How about extending the B65 instead as you proposed? That way service to the Kingsborough Houses would be maintained for both routes, but it would cost a little more.

[aemoreira81]

How about extending the B65 instead as you proposed? That way service to the Kingsborough Houses would be maintained for both routes, but it would cost a little more.

The plan could work for either the B45 or the B65. The thinkibg is that for one of those routes, a wasteful deadhead could be eliminated.

[BrooklynBus]

The plan could work for either the B45 or the B65. The thinkibg is that for one of those routes, a wasteful deadhead could be eliminated.

It's much more than that. No route should terminate where you cannot transfer to another route going in the same direction. Currently people walk much further than they have to to get to a bus route. Those near the B65 going east of Ralph will walk extra to the B25 to make the trip. Those near the B45 will walk extra to the B14 or use an indirect north south route such as the B44 to get to the B12 to get to East NY when they could have had a quicker and direct one bus trip.

[B35 via Church]

It's much more than that.

 

No route should terminate where you cannot transfer to another route going in the same direction. Currently people walk much further than they have to to get to a bus route. Those near the B65 going east of Ralph will walk extra to the B25 to make the trip. Those near the B45 will walk extra to the B14 or use an indirect north south route such as the B44 to get to the B12 to get to East NY when they could have had a quicker and direct one bus trip.

He has good suggestions at times, but he's also way too focused on deadheads... It's as if he cares more about non-revenue mileage than revenue service..... I don't see it as an either/or thing (the extension), because the usage on the 45 trumps the usage on the 65....

 

As for the 45/65 extension, I'm one that says that the 65 should be sent eastward over the 45.... I'd leave the 45 ending at Ralph; there's more folks that rely on that route to get downtown (the riderbase is already strong).... The 65 I feel could use the ridership more (which would be siphoned from the 12 over there by Alabama); other than that of old folks that don't wanna walk to the 45 whilst downtown.... If you look at how the 65 is used, that's more or less what it is (supplementary service) - and service levels have dictated that for the longest.....

[BreeddekalbL]

if i were to make a b15 ltd bus how should i organize the stops? and would it be wise to run non stop on linden blvd and leave the local to pick it up?

 

 

b15 ltd stops to jfk 

b15 ltd stop bus  buses make local stops from the hospital to bergen and rochester and from elderts to jfk terminal 5

ltd route routed off of hegman and new lots to make service faster  free transfer to jfk buses would be allowed at linden and eldert lane

buses will be allowed to use the inner lanes of linden till before eldert stop 

https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&gl=us&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&msa=0&msid=218345366120084192601.0004eaf36aa5d7af1b10c

 

wanted to see what you guys would say and will modify as seen fit and add more stops

 

 

since it got caught up  i wanted to see what you guys think?

[qjtransitmaster]

since it got caught up  i wanted to see what you guys think?

Excellent B15 has reliability issues LTD buses would allow buses to be on time. Skipping linden stops would not go over well at all. 

Edited November 17, 2013 by qjtransitmaster

[B35 via Church]

Even if the B15 were to have LTD's on it (which is an idea I think I'm gonna close the book on even talking about anymore, it's so common), it should remain on its regular route.....

 

* Closed google map after seeing the routing illustrated as B15's traveling on Linden, east of Brookdale*

[dkupf]

I favor the B65 to be extended over the B45, as that the bus requirement for the AM rush would not change.

[BreeddekalbL]

Even if the B15 were to have LTD's on it (which is an idea I think I'm gonna close the book on even talking about anymore, it's so common), it should remain on its regular route.....

 

* Closed google map after seeing the routing illustrated as B15's traveling on Linden, east of Brookdale*

 

now that i modified it to keep it on hegeman ave now what do you think should i add more ltd stops or extend the local stop range etc? 

Edited November 17, 2013 by BreeddekalbL

[dkupf]

I attended the public hearing for the proposed service changes this past Thursday, November 14.

 

The only MTA Board Member in attendance was Alan Cappelli, along with NYCT President Carmen Bianco, DOB Senior Vice President Darryl Irick, OP Chief Peter Cafiero, and of course, MTA VP of Gov't and Community Relations Lois Tendler.

 

Only 30 people, including myself, attended hearing.

 

Noone spoke in favor of the northern terminus of the B37 being at Barclays Center.  They all demanded it to be in Downtown Brooklyn instead.

 

I spoke about the gaps in service in southern Brooklyn that could be remedied by restructuring service.

 

For example, Maimonides Medical Center still doesn't have north/south bus service, there's no single bus route that traverses the both sides of 13th Avenue, and the gap that was created by the elimination of the B23, via 16th Avenue.

 

I, like BrooklynBus before me, proposed straightening out the routes in the area.  The old B23, in our proposal, would be broken up into two viable routes.  The 16th Ave portion would be taken over by an extended B69, and the Cortelyou Road portion by the proposed 13th/14th Avenues route, with its southern terminus at 86th Street-4th Avenue.

 

The B64 would, instead, operate via Brooklyn VA Medical Center and 7th Avenue, 92 Street, and 4th Avenue to 86th Street, returning via 86th Street and 7th Avenue.  The current Bay Ridge Avenue portion of the current B64 would be covered by an extended B2, via Avenue P, 65th Street, New Utrecht Avenue, 62nd St, and 13th Avenue.

 

This would close service gaps, serve new markets, and give more options to current riders; it would make southern Brooklyn more accessible by mass transit.

 

Maybe now NYCT's service planners' attentions could be refocused to address the service gaps that exist throughout the current bus network.

 

Go to http://brooklynbus.tripod.com/ for more details on our proposal.

[dkupf]

Note that the B15 is the most heavilly-used individual route in the NYCT network between 1AM and 5AM. It's even heavier than the M15 at these times!

[BrooklynBus]

He has good suggestions at times, but he's also way too focused on deadheads... It's as if he cares more about non-revenue mileage than revenue service..... I don't see it as an either/or thing (the extension), because the usage on the 45 trumps the usage on the 65....

 

As for the 45/65 extension, I'm one that says that the 65 should be sent eastward over the 45.... I'd leave the 45 ending at Ralph; there's more folks that rely on that route to get downtown (the riderbase is already strong).... The 65 I feel could use the ridership more (which would be siphoned from the 12 over there by Alabama); other than that of old folks that don't wanna walk to the 45 whilst downtown.... If you look at how the 65 is used, that's more or less what it is (supplementary service) - and service levels have dictated that for the longest.....

The only reason I'd pick the B65 over the B45 is to maintain service by the B45 to Kingsboro Houses and avoid an indirect loop if service is maintained to the Houses.

 

As for the B15, we need a second Brooklyn route to JFK. McDonald B35s need to be extended from East 98 St via Linden Blvd making limited stops to JFK. They should run non stop between E 98 St and Fountain, since you have the B15 one block away.

[Around the Horn]

I attended the public hearing for the proposed service changes this past Thursday, November 14.

 

The only MTA Board Member in attendance was Alan Cappelli, along with NYCT President Carmen Bianco, DOB Senior Vice President Darryl Irick, OP Chief Peter Cafiero, and of course, MTA VP of Gov't and Community Relations Lois Tendler.

 

Only 30 people, including myself, attended hearing.

 

Noone spoke in favor of the northern terminus of the B37 being at Barclays Center.  They all demanded it to be in Downtown Brooklyn instead.

 

I spoke about the gaps in service in southern Brooklyn that could be remedied by restructuring service.

 

For example, Maimonides Medical Center still doesn't have north/south bus service, there's no single bus route that traverses the both sides of 13th Avenue, and the gap that was created by the elimination of the B23, via 16th Avenue.

 

I, like BrooklynBus before me, proposed straightening out the routes in the area.  The old B23, in our proposal, would be broken up into two viable routes.  The 16th Ave portion would be taken over by an extended B69, and the Cortelyou Road portion by the proposed 13th/14th Avenues route, with its southern terminus at 86th Street-4th Avenue.

 

The B64 would, instead, operate via Brooklyn VA Medical Center and 7th Avenue, 92 Street, and 4th Avenue to 86th Street, returning via 86th Street and 7th Avenue.  The current Bay Ridge Avenue portion of the current B64 would be covered by an extended B2, via Avenue P, 65th Street, New Utrecht Avenue, 62nd St, and 13th Avenue.

 

This would close service gaps, serve new markets, and give more options to current riders; it would make southern Brooklyn more accessible by mass transit.

 

Maybe now NYCT's service planners' attentions could be refocused to address the service gaps that exist throughout the current bus network.

 

Go to http://brooklynbus.tripod.com/ for more details on our proposal.

I agree wit everything except this.The current B64,frequencies not withstanding, is perfect.Why change it?

[Mysterious2train]

How exactly is the B64 "perfect?" The two halves of the route were just kind of thrown together. It literally only goes up to Bay Ridge Av because it saves money, not because it benefits anybody coming from Bath Av or Coney Island. The logic behind re-routing via VA Hospital is that it can return to its old terminal at 4 Av/86 St without disrupting the B1, and, it can provide straight East-West service, including at VA (when right now you'd have to take the B8 to an East-West route). 

[Fresh Pond]

The only reason I'd pick the B65 over the B45 is to maintain service by the B45 to Kingsboro Houses and avoid an indirect loop if service is maintained to the Houses.

 

As for the B15, we need a second Brooklyn route to JFK. McDonald B35s need to be extended from East 98 St via Linden Blvd making limited stops to JFK. They should run non stop between E 98 St and Fountain, since you have the B15 one block away.

 

IDK about all of that now, that stop on hegeman/Rockaway Avs is a heavy stop for the B35, even heavier than the terminal stop itself. People coming off the B15 from points west get off there and wait for the B35 because that's the first stop the 35 LTD and the 15 share without having to walk a block forward or back.

[B35 via Church]

now that i modified it to keep it on hegeman ave now what do you think should i add more ltd stops or extend the local stop range etc? 

Extend the "local stop range", to where exactly.... Lefferts airtrain? JFK?.....

How much more east w/i Brooklyn can you get, to have B15 locals feasibly terminating within it.....

 

As far as a B15 LTD, I'm not in favor of it.... So for me to suggest more LTD stops to be added would be pointless....

 

...No one spoke in favor of the northern terminus of the B37 being at Barclays Center.  They all demanded it to be in Downtown Brooklyn instead.

Of course they did... Aside from riders wanting reverted routes back to the way they were, it's the one advantage it had over the B63 (even with as few riders that even took the B37 to/from downtown).....

 

The only reason I'd pick the B65 over the B45 is to maintain service by the B45 to Kingsboro Houses and avoid an indirect loop if service is maintained to the Houses.

 

As for the B15, we need a second Brooklyn route to JFK. McDonald B35s need to be extended from East 98 St via Linden Blvd making limited stops to JFK. They should run non stop between E 98 St and Fountain, since you have the B15 one block away.

- Although it's a valid point, I'm less concerned about a loop & more concerned with overall usage of the route.....

 

- Man, you're on this extend the B35 to JFK BS too..... I expect the foamers to be on that BS, but you?

And what sense would it make to have a local route run LTD service? There is NO route in the system that does that.... Run locally from (its respective) end to end, then run LTD to some point past its (local) terminal... I don't know what you were thinking with that one....

 

How exactly is the B64 "perfect?" The two halves of the route were just kind of thrown together. It literally only goes up to Bay Ridge Av because it saves money, not because it benefits anybody coming from Bath Av or Coney Island. The logic behind re-routing via VA Hospital is that it can return to its old terminal at 4 Av/86 St without disrupting the B1, and, it can provide straight East-West service, including at VA (when right now you'd have to take the B8 to an East-West route). 

The 64 is & has been a coverage route for the longest - regardless if it terminat(ed) at 86th st or if it terminat(es) at Xaverian HS.... It's no accident that they now have 1's running to 86th st - They want to take as many ppl off 64's & onto 1's as possible in Bath Beach as possible....

 

Around the Horn & XcelsiorBoii (sp?) will tell you how much more crowded the B1 has gotten since that western terminal swap b/w the two routes..... That was by design - Bastardize the (coverage route) B64 & have the masses flocking to (already heavily utilized) B1's..... There's an inside joke I have with someone, where we say The B1 is the shortest superroute in all the system.....

Edited November 17, 2013 by B35 via Church

[JFK Depot]

Note that the B15 is the most heavilly-used individual route in the NYCT network between 1AM and 5AM. It's even heavier than the M15 at these times!

Very Very True.... Those hawks coming out the Airport are crushed loaded every night

I personally feel the B15 can use Artics..

No limited or SBS... Just keep it the way it is now and run 60 footers instead of the standard 40 footers

The 15 reminds me of the Q44 pre Artic days when it would be crushed the whole route...

What do y'all think of B15 using Artics ?

[Mysterious2train]

 

The 64 is & has been a coverage route for the longest - regardless if it terminat(ed) at 86th st or if it terminat(es) at Xaverian HS.... It's no accident that they now have 1's running to 86th st - They want to take as many ppl off 64's & onto 1's as possible in Bath Beach as possible....

 

Around the Horn & XcelsiorBoii (sp?) will tell you how much more crowded the B1 has gotten since that western terminal swap b/w the two routes..... That was by design - Bastardize the (coverage route) B64 & have the masses flocking to (already heavily utilized) B1's..... There's an inside joke I have with someone, where we say The B1 is the shortest superroute in all the system.....

 

I see what you're saying, but that goes quite against the B64 being 'perfect'. Also, wouldn't that (the crowding on the B1) be more of a reason for sending the B64 to 4 Av/86 St? (to help alleviate the B1). So really, I guess I'm interested in Around the Horn's line of thinking.

 

Very Very True.... Those hawks coming out the Airport are crushed loaded every night

I personally feel the B15 can use Artics..

No limited or SBS... Just keep it the way it is now and run 60 footers instead of the standard 40 footers

The 15 reminds me of the Q44 pre Artic days when it would be crushed the whole route...

What do y'all think of B15 using Artics ?

 

I'd rather another route created/extended to JFK to provide better access from Brooklyn, but that'd be a lot more expensive. 

[B35 via Church]

I see what you're saying, but that goes quite against the B64 being 'perfect'. Also, wouldn't that (the crowding on the B1) be more of a reason for sending the B64 to 4 Av/86 St? (to help alleviate the B1). So really, I guess I'm interested in Around the Horn's line of thinking.

I don't know.... as this reads, I'm getting the impression that you think I was defending this notion of the current B64 being perfect (sans headways), like Around the Horn states....

 

If so, it wasn't something I was defending.... I thought that was obvious, considering the content of my last post there....

 

I'm actually for the B1 & the B64 running to 86th/4th..... Not so much for the crowding on the B1 in-particular (if it happens, so be it, but the B1 will have its crowds anyway), but it's the network in SW Brooklyn is all out of whack - and it begins w/ that [old B1/current B64] portion north & west of 86th/13th, as to why I'd send the 64 back to 86th ....

 

In other words, I wouldn't send the 64 back to 86th to alleviate anything on the B1....

What I'm saying is, I want the two routes to have their separate riderbases from that point, eastward.... Which includes leaving the B1 as is & having 64's serve VA hospital, en route to "backdooring" its way to the subway station....

(this concept is the very thing the MTA is against... They want that ridership down in that section of brooklyn onto one route (which is the B1) so they can justify bastardizing/cutting the 64 - which is what's slowly happening)....

 

They chose the lesser of 2 positives with the 64 - Which was, reverting the route to CI....

[BrooklynBus]

IDK about all of that now, that stop on hegeman/Rockaway Avs is a heavy stop for the B35, even heavier than the terminal stop itself. People coming off the B15 from points west get off there and wait for the B35 because that's the first stop the 35 LTD and the 15 share without having to walk a block forward or back.

I assume you mean they transfer from the B15, points east. Anyway a transfer between the B15 and B35 can be maintained by routing the JFK branch via Church, East 98th to Linden.

 

@B35 via Church. Using McDonald service instead of the Limited would make the route more available to Central Brooklyn riders and it would be more reliable because it would be shorter. How much time does the Limited save anyway and is it really worth it? Also why is there a Limited stop at New York and not Rogers with the B44 now in place? But using the Limited instead from Sunset Park to go to JFK would also work. Additionally, there also needs to be JFK routes from the Junction and from southern Brooklyn. One JFK route to serve the entire borough is just ridiculous.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Here's a different idea from what's being discussed:

 

BM5: Restructure the weekday schedule so the buses leave every 60 minutes after 10:15 AM instead of 70. This helps Woodhaven Blvd have a consistant 30 minute service (express) until 2:00 PM. 

 

A 1:15 PM trip to Manhattan would be added.

 

The Piktin Avenue stop would be discontinued and a new would be made at Liberty Avenue

 

The Forest Park Drive stop would be discontinued and added at Jamaica Avenue

 

An Alderton Street Stop (for consideration) would be added (off peak hours only)

 

 

Weekend BM5 buses are given way too little time between Spring Creek and 63 Drive (31 minutes). The ideal time should be 38-39 minutes.

 

 

QM15 bus times on Saturdays would be modified as well with time given, and modified to go with the BM5's headways, provided service every 30 minutes until 2 PM.

Edited November 18, 2013 by Q23 Central Terminal