Brooklyn Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[Rick44]

I would send it straight across Beverley. This is what I've been saying from the beginning. You lose a lot of time on Cortelyou (more traffic, narrower street with oblique turn onto Coney Island Ave. and riding those buses years ago, it all slows down the trip). Beverley has the stop as well, and all it lacks is the commercial development, but that is not what the bus is for, and the street is much clearer without it anyway.

I could definitely agree with that. I guess maybe they just wanted all the MTA buses to use the same exits out of the expressway? Should be a lot more straightforward though.

Metro mall... boy I've not been there in years... There's really nothing remarkable about that place, it really doesn't need any more service....

 

 

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

The Metro Mall sucks! I don't even consider it to be a mall.

[B35 via Church]

Last post of the year for me....

 

I had this in mind for a quite a while, involving the route pattern of the BM1 and the BM2 rerouting around Prospect Park, because it adds unnecessary mileage to the routes, and could end up saving money in the long term.

 

This is what I had in mind

 

https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=204750700533050976010.0004eed5c54339ff99ae0&msa=0&ll=40.652448,-73.964424&spn=0.048187,0.104628

 

No stops would be missed.

Totally ignoring the Ocean Pkwy issue for a second....

 

The main reason I don't agree with your idea here, is because it has buses taking the prospect all the way to the end..... By having buses (currently) use the 10th av exit, buses avoid getting stuck on that part of the prospect b/w the fort hamilton pkwy exit (inclusive) & where the prospect turns into ocean pkwy (which is at church) - Which is a rather common occurrence.... I doubt you'd get BM1/2 riders to agree with this change for the PM commute also.... AM commute though, you won't have much of a problem.....

 

Looking at your map there, looking at both the colored lines b/w the 10th av exit & Beverley/CI av, it doesn't look like you're saving much of anything, mileage-wise.....

 

Furthermore. If you have buses turning off ocean pkwy at beverley, you may as well leave them on beverley all the way to ocean av (BM1) or flatbush (BM2) - This is what Eric B is saying.....  At that point, there's no real reason to keep buses on cortelyou or CI av, if your concern/aim is saving mileage...... If you're worried that riders won't walk from Cortelyou to Beverley (meaning, you think you'd lose ridership if you don't have buses running on cortelyou, east of CI av), then you may as well not even consider this entire re-routing idea......

Edited January 1, 2014 by B35 via Church

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Last post of the year for me....

 

Totally ignoring the Ocean Pkwy issue for a second....

 

The main reason I don't agree with your idea here, is because it has buses taking the prospect all the way to the end..... By having buses (currently) use the 10th av exit, buses avoid getting stuck on that part of the prospect b/w the fort hamilton pkwy exit (inclusive) & where the prospect turns into ocean pkwy (which is at church) - Which is a rather common occurrence.... I doubt you'd get BM1/2 riders to agree with this change for the PM commute also.... AM commute though, you won't have much of a problem.....

 

Looking at your map there, looking at both the colored lines b/w the 10th av exit & Beverley/CI av, it doesn't look like you're saving much of anything, mileage-wise.....

 

Furthermore. If you have buses turning off ocean pkwy at beverley, you may as well leave them on beverley all the way to ocean av (BM1) or flatbush (BM2) - This is what Eric B is saying.....  At that point, there's no real reason to keep buses on cortelyou or CI av, if your concern/aim is saving mileage...... If you're worried that riders won't walk from Cortelyou to Beverley (meaning, you think you'd lose ridership if you don't have buses running on cortelyou, east of CI av), then you may as well not even consider this entire re-routing idea......

Okay. I modified my original proposal and:

-BM1/ BM2 runs on Beverly Road instead of Cortelyou in both directions (the BM3 and BM4 would still serve Cortelyou Road),

- Mill Basin and Canarsie bound (BM1 & BM2, respectively) use the East 5th Exit and continue down East 5th Street to Caton, make a left, then make a right on Coney Island Road, and make a left on Beverly Road, and continue to Ocean or Flatbush, and keep going their respective routes. It still avoids the area between the Fort Hamilton Pkwy exit and Church. Northbound, I haven't edited the route on the Prospect north of Beverly.

[Eric B]

Last post of the year for me....

 

Totally ignoring the Ocean Pkwy issue for a second....

 

The main reason I don't agree with your idea here, is because it has buses taking the prospect all the way to the end..... By having buses (currently) use the 10th av exit, buses avoid getting stuck on that part of the prospect b/w the fort hamilton pkwy exit (inclusive) & where the prospect turns into ocean pkwy (which is at church) - Which is a rather common occurrence.... I doubt you'd get BM1/2 riders to agree with this change for the PM commute also.... AM commute though, you won't have much of a problem.....

 

Looking at your map there, looking at both the colored lines b/w the 10th av exit & Beverley/CI av, it doesn't look like you're saving much of anything, mileage-wise.....

I don't think whatever traffic backup at Church would be any worse than getting off of the expressway and making turns and running down traffic light streets earlier. 

 

(One thing they should really do to ease that intersection is to dig out the old trolley underpass, though it might not be wide enough for two-way traffic. Perhaps make it peak direction).

[B35 via Church]

Okay. I modified my original proposal and:

 

-BM1/ BM2 runs on Beverly Road instead of Cortelyou in both directions (the BM3 and BM4 would still serve Cortelyou Road),

- Mill Basin and Canarsie bound (BM1 & BM2, respectively) use the East 5th Exit and continue down East 5th Street to Caton, make a left, then make a right on Coney Island Road, and make a left on Beverly Road, and continue to Ocean or Flatbush, and keep going their respective routes. It still avoids the area between the Fort Hamilton Pkwy exit and Church. Northbound, I haven't edited the route on the Prospect north of Beverly.

Google maps f***in up again.... Might wanna check your updated map fam, it's confusing.....

 

side note...

I believe there's a specific reason buses don't take the ft hamilton pkwy. exit (which is what you're referring to)......

 

I don't think whatever traffic backup at Church would be any worse than getting off of the expressway and making turns and running down traffic light streets earlier. 

 

(One thing they should really do to ease that intersection is to dig out the old trolley underpass, though it might not be wide enough for two-way traffic. Perhaps make it peak direction).

Yeah, I remember your stance on this..... I'm going to expound on mine.....

 

Traffic is rather light on McDonald (short of Caton anyway), Caton, and Coney Island av (SB, just south of prospect park) during the PM hours by time the BM1/2 gets off the expwy.... The BM's (much like any other express bus in Manhattan) crawl along manhattan streets to get to Brooklyn.... You may not see it as being any worse or whatever, but I don't think buses should intentionally be routed where backups often occur in it's outerborough.... Saying this another way, I don't think you'd save much of, if any more time keeping buses on the prospect til the end..... I have to agree w/ the MTA as far as the BM1/2 goes, with having buses getting off at the 10th av exit, en route to their respective endpoints (Mill Basin, Canarsie)...

 

I would agree with your point about making turns & hitting traffic lights, if we were talking about the BM3 & BM4..... the mcdonald > church > coney island av routing is (significantly) slower than what the BM1/2 does... Not to mention there are stops the BM3/4 makes b/w that stretch..... Once upon a time, I would use any of the BM's for the PM commute home, but since I (as VG8 would say) "converted" to taking the express bus as my primary commute, coming & going (instead of just going home), I would let 3's or 4's go for that very reason.... Buses would get caught on church too often.... And to think all four of the BM's used to take the current BM3/4 routing...... Although it would be ideal if that part of the prospect in question flowed smoothly towards church, I think the current BM1/2 routing is the best we're going to get.....

 

As for the part in parentheses, don't know what old trolley underpass you're talking about.....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Google maps f***in up again.... Might wanna check your updated map fam, it's confusing.....

 

side note...

I believe there's a specific reason buses don't take the ft hamilton pkwy. exit (which is what you're referring to)......

 

Yeah, I remember your stance on this..... I'm going to expound on mine.....

 

Traffic is rather light on McDonald (short of Caton anyway), Caton, and Coney Island av (SB, just south of prospect park) during the PM hours by time the BM1/2 gets off the expwy.... The BM's (much like any other express bus in Manhattan) crawl along manhattan streets to get to Brooklyn.... You may not see it as being any worse or whatever, but I don't think buses should intentionally be routed where backups often occur in it's outerborough.... Saying this another way, I don't think you'd save much of, if any more time keeping buses on the prospect til the end..... I have to agree w/ the MTA as far as the BM1/2 goes, with having buses getting off at the 10th av exit, en route to their respective endpoints (Mill Basin, Canarsie)...

 

I would agree with your point about making turns & hitting traffic lights, if we were talking about the BM3 & BM4..... the mcdonald > church > coney island av routing is (significantly) slower than what the BM1/2 does... Not to mention there are stops the BM3/4 makes b/w that stretch..... Once upon a time, I would use any of the BM's for the PM commute home, but since I (as VG8 would say) "converted" to taking the express bus as my primary commute, coming & going (instead of just going home), I would let 3's or 4's go for that very reason.... Buses would get caught on church too often.... And to think all four of the BM's used to take the current BM3/4 routing...... Although it would be ideal if that part of the prospect in question flowed smoothly towards church, I think the current BM1/2 routing is the best we're going to get.....

 

As for the part in parentheses, don't know what old trolley underpass you're talking about.....

I don't find Church so much of a problem. I find Cortelyou Rd more of the problem and parts of Coney Island Avenue mainly due to the damn traffic lights not being synchronized.  Thank God that idiot Sadik Kahn is gone from the DOT... 

Edited January 2, 2014 by Via Garibaldi 8

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Google maps f***in up again.... Might wanna check your updated map fam, it's confusing.....

 

side note...

I believe there's a specific reason buses don't take the ft hamilton pkwy. exit (which is what you're referring to)......

 

Yeah, I remember your stance on this..... I'm going to expound on mine.....

 

Traffic is rather light on McDonald (short of Caton anyway), Caton, and Coney Island av (SB, just south of prospect park) during the PM hours by time the BM1/2 gets off the expwy.... The BM's (much like any other express bus in Manhattan) crawl along manhattan streets to get to Brooklyn.... You may not see it as being any worse or whatever, but I don't think buses should intentionally be routed where backups often occur in it's outerborough.... Saying this another way, I don't think you'd save much of, if any more time keeping buses on the prospect til the end..... I have to agree w/ the MTA as far as the BM1/2 goes, with having buses getting off at the 10th av exit, en route to their respective endpoints (Mill Basin, Canarsie)...

 

I would agree with your point about making turns & hitting traffic lights, if we were talking about the BM3 & BM4..... the mcdonald > church > coney island av routing is (significantly) slower than what the BM1/2 does... Not to mention there are stops the BM3/4 makes b/w that stretch..... Once upon a time, I would use any of the BM's for the PM commute home, but since I (as VG8 would say) "converted" to taking the express bus as my primary commute, coming & going (instead of just going home), I would let 3's or 4's go for that very reason.... Buses would get caught on church too often.... And to think all four of the BM's used to take the current BM3/4 routing...... Although it would be ideal if that part of the prospect in question flowed smoothly towards church, I think the current BM1/2 routing is the best we're going to get.....

 

As for the part in parentheses, don't know what old trolley underpass you're talking about.....

I modified it again , and double checked for any errors (the link: https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=204750700533050976010.0004eed5c54339ff99ae0&msa=0&ll=40.640563,-73.967085&spn=0.024098,0.052314)

 

Anyways: I wonder why they dont let the BM3 follow the BM1/BM2 Routing and let the BM4 handle those few stops on its own. The BM4 should be sufficent enough in those areas, and the BM3 riders would have a slightly faster ride into Manhattan.

 

To answer your question: Yes, originally the BM1/BM2 followed the BM3/BM4 Route (those last few stops had megaloads of service under Command, with the buses running every 10 minutes off peak hours, until 2 PM, then every 30 minutes). In 2008 IIRC, the BM1/BM2 were rerouted to bypass those stops (and with good reason, because the BM1/BM2 are the longest of those 4, and the ones with the higher ridership; the 3 was also in the same category, but I guess it was there as a supplement, the 4 well, had it's problems with ridership). 

 

Also, should the B103 also be rerouted to serve Beverly instead of staying Cortelyou?

Edited January 2, 2014 by Q23 Central Terminal

[B35 via Church]

I don't find Church so much of a problem. I find Cortelyou Rd more of the problem and parts of Coney Island Avenue mainly due to the damn traffic lights not being synchronized.  Thank God that idiot Sadik Kahn is gone from the DOT... 

I don't mind Cortelyou rd during the PM hours.... AM, yeah it is slow & clogged.... Not to mention the passenger activity at the stops....

 

As far as Church av during the PM hours, the BM3/4 & that turn off McDonald onto church alone is an annoyance.... Then there's Church b/w Mcdonald & Ocean Pkwy where there's a light on almost every street (speaking of unsynchronized lights)....

 

Lol @ whoever the hell you're talking about that's gone... I don't pay attention to these ppl. enough to know their names....

 

 

 

1- I modified it again , and double checked for any errors (the link: https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=204750700533050976010.0004eed5c54339ff99ae0&msa=0&ll=40.640563,-73.967085&spn=0.024098,0.052314)

 

2- Anyways: I wonder why they dont let the BM3 follow the BM1/BM2 Routing and let the BM4 handle those few stops on its own. The BM4 should be sufficent enough in those areas, and the BM3 riders would have a slightly faster ride into Manhattan.

 

3- To answer your question: Yes, originally the BM1/BM2 followed the BM3/BM4 Route (those last few stops had megaloads of service under Command, with the buses running every 10 minutes off peak hours, until 2 PM, then every 30 minutes). In 2008 IIRC, the BM1/BM2 were rerouted to bypass those stops (and with good reason, because the BM1/BM2 are the longest of those 4, and the ones with the higher ridership; the 3 was also in the same category, but I guess it was there as a supplement, the 4 well, had it's problems with ridership). 

 

4- Also, should the B103 also be rerouted to serve Beverly instead of staying Cortelyou?

1- The current routes don't take Beverley for them to be discontinued from using Beverley (referring to your red line).....

 

(Lol... You know what, don't even bother.... Ever since their latest updates, google maps has gone back to their PITA status again.... I was goin draw a map (for something I wanted to illustrate for the Queens thread), but I just deleted it because it has the drawn route doing something completely different from what I drew up after I saved the thing.....)

 

2- Probably because the BM4 ends the earliest, so to have the BM3 around as later service for w/e folks need the church av stops (and that one on McDonald also)... Either that, or to have the two routes that carry the most pax take on the quicker routing (and the two lesser used routes make the stops on church, etc.).... Those are my guesses....

 

3- Lol....

 

I said "and to think...", not "and I think...."

I was making a statement; wasn't asking if they all had the same routing (I know they did, chief)....

 

4- I'll just put it like this.... I'd rather have the 103 on Beverley over putting the expresses on Beverley....

Edited January 2, 2014 by B35 via Church

[Culver]

I don't find Church so much of a problem. I find Cortelyou Rd more of the problem and parts of Coney Island Avenue mainly due to the damn traffic lights not being synchronized.  Thank God that idiot Sadik Kahn is gone from the DOT... 

Agreed. Safer streets, pedestrian plazas and less traffic fatalities are like, totally socialist communist fascism.

/s

 

 

As for the part in parentheses, don't know what old trolley underpass you're talking about.....

 

Forgotten NY (great site, BTW) has a thing on it. Church is wider near Ocean Parkway because there used to be a crossunder for trolleys on Church to skip the traffic light with Ocean.

http://forgotten-ny.com/2012/09/trolley-traces/

Edited January 2, 2014 by Culver

[aemoreira81]

Vis a vis the Spring Creek expresses, why buses don't use the East 5 Street exit is because the NYCDOT does not want heavy vehicles using neighborhood streets (NY 27 is routed down that way to get to Caton Avenue). That is why there is a separate Truck NY 27. That said, using Beverly Road wouldn't be a bad idea for the BM1 and BM2.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

I don't mind Cortelyou rd during the PM hours.... AM, yeah it is slow & clogged.... Not to mention the passenger activity at the stops....

 

As far as Church av during the PM hours, the BM3/4 & that turn off McDonald onto church alone is an annoyance.... Then there's Church b/w Mcdonald & Ocean Pkwy where there's a light on almost every street (speaking of unsynchronized lights)....

 

Lol @ whoever the hell you're talking about that's gone... I don't pay attention to these ppl. enough to know their names....

 

 

 

1- The current routes don't take Beverley for them to be discontinued from using Beverley (referring to your red line).....

 

(Lol... You know what, don't even bother.... Ever since their latest updates, google maps has gone back to their PITA status again.... I was goin draw a map (for something I wanted to illustrate for the Queens thread), but I just deleted it because it has the drawn route doing something completely different from what I drew up after I saved the thing.....)

 

2- Probably because the BM4 ends the earliest, so to have the BM3 around as later service for w/e folks need the church av stops (and that one on McDonald also)... Either that, or to have the two routes that carry the most pax take on the quicker routing (and the two lesser used routes make the stops on church, etc.).... Those are my guesses....

 

3- Lol....

 

I said "and to think...", not "and I think...."

I was making a statement; wasn't asking if they all had the same routing (I know they did, chief)....

 

4- I'll just put it like this.... I'd rather have the 103 on Beverley over putting the expresses on Beverley....

1. Eh, I just got rid of the red line because it just keeps editing itself afterward (that, and the new google maps doesn't let you actually draw along the roads anymore, so I'm staying with classic).

 

2. Yeah, you're probably right; the BM3 stops running in Kensington a good 90 minutes after the BM4 does to Manhattan, and the BM3 stops running to Brooklyn a good 210 minutes (3.5 hours) after the BM4 does in the PM hours.

 

3. My mistake, I didn't read that correctly

 

4. The reason I ask is because I don't know if it would save much time over Cortelyou. Sure, those trying to take the to Manhattan will have a faster faster ride to the and possibly to even get on the , but I don't know if it will save a significant amount of time.

[Eric B]

Traffic is rather light on McDonald (short of Caton anyway), Caton, and Coney Island av (SB, just south of prospect park) during the PM hours by time the BM1/2 gets off the expwy.... The BM's (much like any other express bus in Manhattan) crawl along manhattan streets to get to Brooklyn.... You may not see it as being any worse or whatever, but I don't think buses should intentionally be routed where backups often occur in it's outerborough.... Saying this another way, I don't think you'd save much of, if any more time keeping buses on the prospect til the end..... I have to agree w/ the MTA as far as the BM1/2 goes, with having buses getting off at the 10th av exit, en route to their respective endpoints (Mill Basin, Canarsie)...

 

I would agree with your point about making turns & hitting traffic lights, if we were talking about the BM3 & BM4..... the mcdonald > church > coney island av routing is (significantly) slower than what the BM1/2 does... Not to mention there are stops the BM3/4 makes b/w that stretch..... Once upon a time, I would use any of the BM's for the PM commute home, but since I (as VG8 would say) "converted" to taking the express bus as my primary commute, coming & going (instead of just going home), I would let 3's or 4's go for that very reason.... Buses would get caught on church too often.... And to think all four of the BM's used to take the current BM3/4 routing...... Although it would be ideal if that part of the prospect in question flowed smoothly towards church, I think the current BM1/2 routing is the best we're going to get.....

Yes, McDonald is usually pretty fast; it's when you turn off of there (especially Church) that you lose all the time. 

 

I would have the B103 stay the same and make the current stops along the way, since it's not an express, and have all the BM's (and the X29 if it were running; if it ever comes back) take Beverley across.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Yes, McDonald is usually pretty fast; it's when you turn off of there (especially Church) that you lose all the time. 

 

I would have the B103 stay the same and make the current stops along the way, since it's not an express, and have all the BM's (and the X29 if it were running; if it ever comes back) take Beverley across.

Why would the X29 take Beverley across? It ran straight down Coney Island Avenue when it was around though I must say the times I used it going to Sheepshead Bay it was a slow ride for some reason.  Now I use the BM1 and BM3 most of the time and the BM4 is my back up bus, but I've actually found most of the delays along Cortelyou with the damn lights not being synchronized.  This is during PM rush or on Saturdays.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Agreed. Safer streets, pedestrian plazas and less traffic fatalities are like, totally socialist communist fascism.

 

I suppose that's a sarcastic response... That chick was a know-it-all arrogant something and was quite dismissive about what the public had to say.  For all of "safer streets" she supposedly helped to create, there were still plenty of fatalities and traffic has become worse since she's taken over.  Putting in pedestrian plazas in every nook and cranny of already congested traffic clogged areas is a very "bright" idea.  Luckily for the folks sitting in them there haven't been too many cars flying out of control save that incident on 6th Avenue near 50th street a few months back.

 

I don't mind Cortelyou rd during the PM hours.... AM, yeah it is slow & clogged.... Not to mention the passenger activity at the stops....

 

As far as Church av during the PM hours, the BM3/4 & that turn off McDonald onto church alone is an annoyance.... Then there's Church b/w Mcdonald & Ocean Pkwy where there's a light on almost every street (speaking of unsynchronized lights)....

 

Lol @ whoever the hell you're talking about that's gone... I don't pay attention to these ppl. enough to know their names....

lol... Yeah that turn onto Church is a real PITA... The lights take forever over there and it really kills whatever time you may save from getting a Super Express from Downtown or Midtown.

 

Yeah Sadik-Khan was the Commissioner of the DOT... Real arrogant something... She's done her best to kill the traffic flow in this city.  Notice that you rarely get any green lights that are synchronized for any long stretch of time.  

[B35 via Church]

Yes, McDonald is usually pretty fast; it's when you turn off of there (especially Church) that you lose all the time. 

 

I would have the B103 stay the same and make the current stops along the way, since it's not an express, and have all the BM's (and the X29 if it were running; if it ever comes back) take Beverley across.

Why would the X29 take Beverley across? It ran straight down Coney Island Avenue when it was around though I must say the times I used it going to Sheepshead Bay it was a slow ride for some reason.  Now I use the BM1 and BM3 most of the time and the BM4 is my back up bus, but I've actually found most of the delays along Cortelyou with the damn lights not being synchronized.  This is during PM rush or on Saturdays.

I have the same question....

 

If the x29 were to come back, I would have it utilize the current BM1/2 routing, not Beverley Road, and not the former routing (which was the same as the current BM3/4)....

Hell, PM bound, have it utilize CI av on down from Caton, than from Church.... Only difference b/w the former & what I'd do, is that I would have the x29 stop at church/CI av (shared stop w/ the SB B68, in front of that arab pizza store).....

 

I used to take the x29 with regularity for the PM commute, before I started taking the BM's like that..... I personally didn't see where the route was so slow (especially to the tune that L Train/Lex Express/Forest Glen used to bitch about it being; like it used to catch red's at everrry single traffic light...... Seriously now).... Also, it wasn't as empty as some used to make it out to be either (to my surprise, then)....

 

Notice that you rarely get any green lights that are synchronized for any long stretch of time.  

Not as much as you used to see here in the city, no.....

[GojiMet86]

I have the same question....

 

If the x29 were to come back, I would have it utilize the current BM1/2 routing, not Beverley Road, and not the former routing (which was the same as the current BM3/4)....

Hell, PM bound, have it utilize CI av on down from Caton, than from Church.... Only difference b/w the former & what I'd do, is that I would have the x29 stop at church/CI av (shared stop w/ the SB B68, in front of that arab pizza store).....

 

I used to take the x29 with regularity for the PM commute, before I started taking the BM's like that..... I personally didn't see where the route was so slow (especially to the tune that L Train/Lex Express/Forest Glen used to bitch about it being; like it used to catch red's at everrry single traffic light...... Seriously now).... Also, it wasn't as empty as some used to make it out to be either (to my surprise, then)....

 

Not as much as you used to see here in the city, no.....

 

 

Forest Glen, that's a name a haven't heard in a while.

[Eric B]

Why would the X29 take Beverley across? It ran straight down Coney Island Avenue when it was around though I must say the times I used it going to Sheepshead Bay it was a slow ride for some reason.  Now I use the BM1 and BM3 most of the time and the BM4 is my back up bus, but I've actually found most of the delays along Cortelyou with the damn lights not being synchronized.  This is during PM rush or on Saturdays.

Church is still slower, and at a jagged angle than Beverley. Plus, don't forget, southbound having to get off early and go around to get to Church from McDonald. I used to ride that too, and a lot of time would be lost on that stretch.

[Culver]

I suppose that's a sarcastic response... That chick was a know-it-all arrogant something and was quite dismissive about what the public had to say.  For all of "safer streets" she supposedly helped to create, there were still plenty of fatalities and traffic has become worse since she's taken over.  Putting in pedestrian plazas in every nook and cranny of already congested traffic clogged areas is a very "bright" idea.  Luckily for the folks sitting in them there haven't been too many cars flying out of control save that incident on 6th Avenue near 50th street a few months back.

 

lol... Yeah that turn onto Church is a real PITA... The lights take forever over there and it really kills whatever time you may save from getting a Super Express from Downtown or Midtown.

 

Yeah Sadik-Khan was the Commissioner of the DOT... Real arrogant something... She's done her best to kill the traffic flow in this city.  Notice that you rarely get any green lights that are synchronized for any long stretch of time.  

Yes, putting in pedestrian plazas in overcrowded areas IS a good idea.

 

As for the fatalities, you can look no further than the NYPD, which has refused to enforce road rules for years now. Speeding fatalities are a gigantic problem in the city and these clowns give less and less speeding tickets every year because they're spending all their time trolling bike riders (I'm referring to law-abiding ones, jerks who ride like jerks deserve tickets) and harassing random people on the street for being black (which I'm sure you love). There is never any criminality or charges pressed against reckless drivers, and zero effort by the NYPD to control the issue. Lastly, driving in Manhattan south of 60th is a f**king stupid thing to do, and I have less than zero sympathy for the troglodytes dumb enough to do so (unless they're driving a cab/bus/local delivery/public service vehicle).

[qjtransitmaster]

Yes, putting in pedestrian plazas in overcrowded areas IS a good idea.

 

As for the fatalities, you can look no further than the NYPD, which has refused to enforce road rules for years now. Speeding fatalities are a gigantic problem in the city and these clowns give less and less speeding tickets every year because they're spending all their time trolling bike riders (I'm referring to law-abiding ones, jerks who ride like jerks deserve tickets) and harassing random people on the street for being black (which I'm sure you love). There is never any criminality or charges pressed against reckless drivers, and zero effort by the NYPD to control the issue. Lastly, driving in Manhattan south of 60th is a f**king stupid thing to do, and I have less than zero sympathy for the troglodytes dumb enough to do so (unless they're driving a cab/bus/local delivery/public service vehicle).

But slowing down traffic also slows down bus service dude at least in the outerboroughs but your Manhattan stance =WIN

[qjtransitmaster]

I have the same question....

 

If the x29 were to come back, I would have it utilize the current BM1/2 routing, not Beverley Road, and not the former routing (which was the same as the current BM3/4)....

Hell, PM bound, have it utilize CI av on down from Caton, than from Church.... Only difference b/w the former & what I'd do, is that I would have the x29 stop at church/CI av (shared stop w/ the SB B68, in front of that arab pizza store).....

 

I used to take the x29 with regularity for the PM commute, before I started taking the BM's like that..... I personally didn't see where the route was so slow (especially to the tune that L Train/Lex Express/Forest Glen used to bitch about it being; like it used to catch red's at everrry single traffic light...... Seriously now).... Also, it wasn't as empty as some used to make it out to be either (to my surprise, then)....

 

Not as much as you used to see here in the city, no.....

Someone on here gave an idea to upgrade ridership on BM4 by having it replace a part of the x29's route to eliminate redundancy. It was Q23 I think.

[Turbo19]

Yes, putting in pedestrian plazas in overcrowded areas IS a good idea.

 

As for the fatalities, you can look no further than the NYPD, which has refused to enforce road rules for years now. Speeding fatalities are a gigantic problem in the city and these clowns give less and less speeding tickets every year because they're spending all their time trolling bike riders (I'm referring to law-abiding ones, jerks who ride like jerks deserve tickets) and harassing random people on the street for being black (which I'm sure you love). There is never any criminality or charges pressed against reckless drivers, and zero effort by the NYPD to control the issue. Lastly, driving in Manhattan south of 60th is a f**king stupid thing to do, and I have less than zero sympathy for the troglodytes dumb enough to do so (unless they're driving a cab/bus/local delivery/public service vehicle).

Correction, never are charges pressed against reckless drivers who cause harm and/or injury to pedestrians. That is the main issue in my opinion.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Yes, putting in pedestrian plazas in overcrowded areas IS a good idea.

 

As for the fatalities, you can look no further than the NYPD, which has refused to enforce road rules for years now. Speeding fatalities are a gigantic problem in the city and these clowns give less and less speeding tickets every year because they're spending all their time trolling bike riders (I'm referring to law-abiding ones, jerks who ride like jerks deserve tickets) and harassing random people on the street for being black (which I'm sure you love). There is never any criminality or charges pressed against reckless drivers, and zero effort by the NYPD to control the issue. Lastly, driving in Manhattan south of 60th is a f**king stupid thing to do, and I have less than zero sympathy for the troglodytes dumb enough to do so (unless they're driving a cab/bus/local delivery/public service vehicle).

Really?  I'm for pedestrian plazas, but address the traffic issues first.... It's crazy to put in pedestrian plazas and do nothing to address the traffic issues in those areas (which includes public transportation).  Most of the pedestrian plazas have been recklessly put into place and they've basically given the middle finger to those who oppose them.  

 

As for the NYPD, they've been working with a reduced force for years now, so naturally they're not going to be able to enforce everything.  That last comment about harassment... Please... Those who commit the most crime are naturally going to be targeted... It's simple math... You have a reduced force, you have to be strategic in how you fight crime.  If you're willing to pay for more police then by all means go for it (assuming of course that you actually work and pay taxes at the moment) because hiring more cops means there's more money needed, which means higher taxes.  I find that the ones that complain the most about the police force usually aren't even working to have a clue about costs or taxes. They're either unemployed collecting welfare, "in school (for eternity getting their 'edumacation')" (my favorite one)  or just at home doing nothing, letting mommy and daddy support them. Smh

 

 

Church is still slower, and at a jagged angle than Beverley. Plus, don't forget, southbound having to get off early and go around to get to Church from McDonald. I used to ride that too, and a lot of time would be lost on that stretch.

I get that but it spent most of the time along Coney Island Avenue, so if there was any time savings, it would be meager at best.

 

 

I have the same question....

 

If the x29 were to come back, I would have it utilize the current BM1/2 routing, not Beverley Road, and not the former routing (which was the same as the current BM3/4)....

Hell, PM bound, have it utilize CI av on down from Caton, than from Church.... Only difference b/w the former & what I'd do, is that I would have the x29 stop at church/CI av (shared stop w/ the SB B68, in front of that arab pizza store).....

 

I used to take the x29 with regularity for the PM commute, before I started taking the BM's like that..... I personally didn't see where the route was so slow (especially to the tune that L Train/Lex Express/Forest Glen used to bitch about it being; like it used to catch red's at everrry single traffic light...... Seriously now).... Also, it wasn't as empty as some used to make it out to be either (to my surprise, then)....

Well the times that I used it, I found that most of the lights it was caught at were on Coney Island Avenue, but it did have good usage.  Byt the time it got down to Avenue Z and CI Avenue where I'd get off at, there were very few people if any left.

Edited January 3, 2014 by Via Garibaldi 8

[bobtehpanda]

 

Really?  I'm for pedestrian plazas, but address the traffic issues first.... It's crazy to put in pedestrian plazas and do nothing to address the traffic issues in those areas (which includes public transportation).  Most of the pedestrian plazas have been recklessly put into place and they've basically given the middle finger to those who oppose them.  

 

As for the NYPD, they've been working with a reduced force for years now, so naturally they're not going to be able to enforce everything.  That last comment about harassment... Please... Those who commit the most crime are naturally going to be targeted... It's simple math... You have a reduced force, you have to be strategic in how you fight crime.  If you're willing to pay for more police then by all means go for it because hiring more cops means there's more money needed, which means higher taxes.

 

If by "recklessly put into place" you mean at the behest of civic groups who push these things, then sure. If you don't like what these civic groups are doing, speak out against them at your local CB or something; otherwise, it's like democracy, where you don't really get to complain if you didn't vote in the first place.

 

NYPD's traffic policy until very recently was not to even launch an investigation unless the person was likely to die (which led to a couple of investigations where the crime scene was not preserved and the victim died in the hospital), and even then only pressing charges if either the driver left the scene, or the driver committed only two other violations as well (and then only prosecuting for the other violations, not actually killing a person with a car). Laws like Diego and Hayley's Law had very poor enforcement even in egregious cases simply because NYPD said no.

 

Ray Kelly also fought vehemently against release of traffic death data because the NYPD felt the public couldn't understand it (but apparently could perfectly understand murder data).

 

As for your allegation that the NYPD is short-staffed, this is the exact same agency with the former commissioner who gloated about sending forces abroad to do "counterterrorism" with the big boys that is way out of its remit as a local police force, and the former mayor who kept saying things like "I Have the seventh largest army in the world". You can't have your cake and eat it too, and quite frankly the NYPD should be leaving counterterrorism to the feds.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

If by "recklessly put into place" you mean at the behest of civic groups who push these things, then sure. If you don't like what these civic groups are doing, speak out against them at your local CB or something; otherwise, it's like democracy, where you don't really get to complain if you didn't vote in the first place.

 

NYPD's traffic policy until very recently was not to even launch an investigation unless the person was likely to die (which led to a couple of investigations where the crime scene was not preserved and the victim died in the hospital), and even then only pressing charges if either the driver left the scene, or the driver committed only two other violations as well (and then only prosecuting for the other violations, not actually killing a person with a car). Laws like Diego and Hayley's Law had very poor enforcement even in egregious cases simply because NYPD said no.

 

Ray Kelly also fought vehemently against release of traffic death data because the NYPD felt the public couldn't understand it (but apparently could perfectly understand murder data).

 

As for your allegation that the NYPD is short-staffed, this is the exact same agency with the former commissioner who gloated about sending forces abroad to do "counterterrorism" with the big boys that is way out of its remit as a local police force, and the former mayor who kept saying things like "I Have the seventh largest army in the world". You can't have your cake and eat it too, and quite frankly the NYPD should be leaving counterterrorism to the feds.

My point is that often times communities were against these pedestrian plazas and or bike racks and the city and the DOT ignored their concerns and cited false reports to make their claims valid that for example, pedestrian plazas did not impede traffic.  I don't call that gloating.  NYC is one of the biggest terror targets in the world, and as such, Kelly would've been a fool not to send forces abroad to work with other authorities to ensure the safety of this city.  

 

It's not about having your cake... The city simply didn't have the financial resources to maintain the police force that it previously had and cuts had to be made and strategic strategies had to be implemented.

[B35 via Church]

Someone on here gave an idea to upgrade ridership on BM4 by having it replace a part of the x29's route to eliminate redundancy. It was Q23 I think.

He's had quite a bit of ideas that involved tinkering with the BM's, so it probably was him....

 

Doing a quick search, you were right, it was him....

Hmm, why not try to make the BM4 less redundant to the BM3 and BM1.

 

Well the times that I used it, I found that most of the lights it was caught at were on Coney Island Avenue, but it did have good usage.  

By the time it got down to Avenue Z and CI Avenue where I'd get off at, there were very few people if any left.

I must have been one lucky SOB b/c I didn't get caught at all these lights along CI av.... Matter fact, it was the exact opposite - we would catch consecutive greens in a row more often than not (which is one reason I would take it to Nathans over the 28/38, even though it came less frequent).....

 

As far as its usage.... yeah, by that time (Av Z), most the riders were off - that much was the case when I rode em also....

Anyone (else) left on the bus were Trump Towers patrons (those bldg's over there along Neptune, west of Ocean Pkwy)