BM5 via Woodhaven Posted July 25, 2012 Share #1176 Posted July 25, 2012 practice use B38 a bit then u will know how much ltd service it needs 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynIRT Posted August 14, 2012 Share #1177 Posted August 14, 2012 (edited) Bump A host of ideas to clean up the B44 SBS plan by allowing the B44 local to go up Rogers with the SBS: -Southbound B15 rerouted via Stuyvesant Ave between Broadway and Fulton St, via Schenectady between Fulton and Dean (uses Park Ave to get over to Broadway from Woodhull terminal like southbound B47) -Southbound B43 replaces southbound B15 along Marcus Garvey Blvd (Sumner Ave) by being rerouted via Sumner between Broadway and Fulton, via Albany Ave between Fulton and Empire -Northbound B44 local rerouted via Rogers between Flatbush and Dean, via Bedford north of Dean all the way to Flushing Ave (daytime) or Bridge Plaza (overnight) -Northbound B49 replaces northbound B44 local by being rerouted via NY Ave between Foster or "D" and Fulton, will still go over to Franklin Ave terminal like it does now -Southbound B49 replaces part of southbound B43 by being rerouted via Brooklyn Ave between Dean and ENY Ave, runs southbound via NY Ave from ENY to "D" or Foster (bidirectional service on NY Ave between ENY and Foster or "D"), then gets back over to Ocean via either of those last two east-west streets -B57 replaces other part of southbound B43 by being rerouted via Tompkins/Marcy Aves between Flushing Ave and Fulton St, terminates at Franklin/Fulton -That proposed DUMBO/Navy Yard line could replace part of the B57 by terminating at Woodhull This proposal leaves Court/Smith Sts and much of Bedford Ave without bus service, but East FB now has southbound service on a block other than Nostrand or Utica Ave. The only issue is that the B49 will need to be more frequent if it proves incapable of handling the loads along NY Ave at its current frequencies after the B44 SBS is created (and the B44 local is moved to Rogers with the SBS) Edited August 14, 2012 by BrooklynIRT 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynIRT Posted August 14, 2012 Share #1178 Posted August 14, 2012 (edited) Minor correction: -Southbound B49 replaces part of southbound B43 by being rerouted via Brooklyn Ave between Dean Atlantic and ENY Ave, runs southbound via NY Ave from ENY to "D" or Foster (bidirectional service on NY Ave between ENY and Foster or "D"), then gets back over to Ocean via either of those last two east-west streets Probably better to send the 49 down Atlantic to Brooklyn Ave as I just realized that the only reason the 49 uses Dean is to access the bidirectional part of Bedford, and it makes it much easier for people to transfer from the southbound B44 SBS Edited August 14, 2012 by BrooklynIRT 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted August 14, 2012 Share #1179 Posted August 14, 2012 "1" huge problem IRT. NIMBYS and Central Brooklyn riders refusing this drastic changes to several lines. Bump A host of ideas to clean up the B44 SBS plan by allowing the B44 local to go up Rogers with the SBS: -Southbound B15 rerouted via Stuyvesant Ave between Broadway and Fulton St, via Schenectady between Fulton and Dean (uses Park Ave to get over to Broadway from Woodhull terminal like southbound B47) -Southbound B43 replaces southbound B15 along Marcus Garvey Blvd (Sumner Ave) by being rerouted via Sumner between Broadway and Fulton, via Albany Ave between Fulton and Empire -Northbound B44 local rerouted via Rogers between Flatbush and Dean, via Bedford north of Dean all the way to Flushing Ave (daytime) or Bridge Plaza (overnight) -Northbound B49 replaces northbound B44 local by being rerouted via NY Ave between Foster or "D" and Fulton, will still go over to Franklin Ave terminal like it does now -Southbound B49 replaces part of southbound B43 by being rerouted via Brooklyn Ave between Dean and ENY Ave, runs southbound via NY Ave from ENY to "D" or Foster (bidirectional service on NY Ave between ENY and Foster or "D"), then gets back over to Ocean via either of those last two east-west streets -B57 replaces other part of southbound B43 by being rerouted via Tompkins/Marcy Aves between Flushing Ave and Fulton St, terminates at Franklin/Fulton -That proposed DUMBO/Navy Yard line could replace part of the B57 by terminating at Woodhull This proposal leaves Court/Smith Sts and much of Bedford Ave without bus service, but East FB now has southbound service on a block other than Nostrand or Utica Ave. The only issue is that the B49 will need to be more frequent if it proves incapable of handling the loads along NY Ave at its current frequencies after the B44 SBS is created (and the B44 local is moved to Rogers with the SBS) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynIRT Posted August 14, 2012 Share #1180 Posted August 14, 2012 (edited) Although it looks like it would be a win-win-win because all the 44s would be running on the same streets and would be able to just take a straight path between Fulton and JCT in both directions, the 49 would be the line going out of its way to serve NY/Brooklyn Aves instead of the 44 but would be better suited for this since it stops dead at Fulton instead of heading past it to Bridge Plaza, new connections could be made that are not currently possible, and it would put bus service on mad* blocks that currently lack it and are far from transportation (Stuyvesant, Albany, Marcy) *The use of that word in such a context is quite uncharacteristic of me, but it best expresses how enthused I am about this proposal. It seems so perfect..for now Edited August 14, 2012 by BrooklynIRT 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threxx Posted August 14, 2012 Share #1181 Posted August 14, 2012 Why would you mess up the B15 and B43 like that? There is no need to change all of those routes just for the B44. Bed-Stuy riders, including myself, would hate this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynIRT Posted August 15, 2012 Share #1182 Posted August 15, 2012 Why? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NY1635 Posted August 15, 2012 Share #1183 Posted August 15, 2012 Why? You're rerouting a couple of buses to make room for B44 SBS. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threxx Posted August 15, 2012 Share #1184 Posted August 15, 2012 (edited) You're rerouting a couple of buses to make room for B44 SBS. Oh, more than a couple. More like every single north-south route b/w Broadway and Vanderbilt... I can't believe this thread has gotten to 60 pages... Edited August 15, 2012 by Threxx 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted August 15, 2012 Share #1185 Posted August 15, 2012 A host of ideas to clean up the B44 SBS plan by allowing the B44 local to go up Rogers with the SBS: -Southbound B15 rerouted via Stuyvesant Ave between Broadway and Fulton St, via Schenectady between Fulton and Dean (uses Park Ave to get over to Broadway from Woodhull terminal like southbound B47) -Southbound B43 replaces southbound B15 along Marcus Garvey Blvd (Sumner Ave) by being rerouted via Sumner between Broadway and Fulton, via Albany Ave between Fulton and Empire -Northbound B44 local rerouted via Rogers between Flatbush and Dean, via Bedford north of Dean all the way to Flushing Ave (daytime) or Bridge Plaza (overnight) -Northbound B49 replaces northbound B44 local by being rerouted via NY Ave between Foster or "D" and Fulton, will still go over to Franklin Ave terminal like it does now -Southbound B49 replaces part of southbound B43 by being rerouted via Brooklyn Ave between Dean and ENY Ave, runs southbound via NY Ave from ENY to "D" or Foster (bidirectional service on NY Ave between ENY and Foster or "D"), then gets back over to Ocean via either of those last two east-west streets -B57 replaces other part of southbound B43 by being rerouted via Tompkins/Marcy Aves between Flushing Ave and Fulton St, terminates at Franklin/Fulton -That proposed DUMBO/Navy Yard line could replace part of the B57 by terminating at Woodhull This proposal leaves Court/Smith Sts and much of Bedford Ave without bus service, but East FB now has southbound service on a block other than Nostrand or Utica Ave. The only issue is that the B49 will need to be more frequent if it proves incapable of handling the loads along NY Ave at its current frequencies after the B44 SBS is created (and the B44 local is moved to Rogers with the SBS) Im with Threxx here... Why are you including (altering) the B15, 43, and 57 with an issue that really only involves the B44 & 49 ? - Ok, so you're shifting the SB 43 over 2 blocks, shifting the SB 15 over 2 blocks.... I mean you're straightening things out, but at what expense? In other words, I'm not seeing much of a benefit to doing that, over what those 2 current SB portions of those respective routes already/currently do...... - Moving the 57 down to Franklin/Fulton makes no sense to me; every N/S block in bed-stuy don't need a bus running along it....You are just gonna have ppl coming from the east (on the 57) xferring to 54's to get downtown...... Also, forcing patrons needing Woodhull coming from downtown or w/e having to ride through DUMBO is a terrible compromise...... I don't care for the B57 on Flushing west of broadway either (as it sees little usage & is delayed due to traffic coming on/off the BQE), but I just don't agree w/ how you'd go about it all...... What I think should happen w/ that route is a truncation to Metropolitan, a truncation to downtown brooklyn, and moving it off flushing onto Park b/w throop & navy...... that makes that route as efficient as it's gonna get....... If you want to move that DUMBO/Navy Yard route onto/along flushing to the Navy Yard, that can still be done...... I'm still unsure where around (or even within) the navy yard they plan on sending that route to..... None of this has anything to do w/ the 44 or the 49...... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM5 via Woodhaven Posted August 15, 2012 Share #1186 Posted August 15, 2012 Did I just here alter routes just for the B44. Oh HELL no! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynIRT Posted August 15, 2012 Share #1187 Posted August 15, 2012 (edited) If the 15 and 43 were to be left alone and only the 44 and 49 were changed as I described (49 via NY/Brooklyn Aves), it would mean that the 49 and 43 would both be running down Brooklyn. The lack of bus service on Marcy and Stuyvesant does not seem to be a big deal, but what about having two buses go down Brooklyn while none go down Albany? I once proposed a bus line that would run north on New York/Albany Aves and south on Albany, but I was told that having a bus go up one street and come back down on another street that is so far away is not a good idea; the two route directions should be kept as close together as possible. I know the M5 is one of those "super-loops," but I do not know the M5 too well to determine whether or not its being a "super-loop" is a problem In any case, if I could only change the 44 and 49, I would do this: NB 44 local via Rogers, NB 49 via New York from Foster or "D" to Fulton, SB 49 via Brooklyn from Atlantic to Empire or ENY Ave (little difference anyway), then via New York from Empire/ENY to "D" or Foster and then get over to Ocean -or- via Albany from Atlantic to Church, then via Brooklyn from Church to "D" or Foster and then get over to Ocean Edited August 15, 2012 by BrooklynIRT 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threxx Posted August 15, 2012 Share #1188 Posted August 15, 2012 If the 15 and 43 were to be left alone and only the 44 and 49 were changed as I described (49 via NY/Brooklyn Aves), it would mean that the 49 and 43 would both be running down Brooklyn. The lack of bus service on Marcy and Stuyvesant does not seem to be a big deal, but what about having two buses go down Brooklyn while none go down Albany? I once proposed a bus line that would run north on New York/Albany Aves and south on Albany, but I was told that having a bus go up one street and come back down on another street that is so far away is not a good idea; the two route directions should be kept as close together as possible. I know the M5 is one of those "super-loops," but I do not know the M5 too well to determine whether or not its being a "super-loop" is a problem In any case, if I could only change the 44 and 49, I would do this: NB 44 local via Rogers, NB 49 via New York from Foster or "D" to Fulton, SB 49 via Brooklyn from Atlantic to Empire or ENY Ave (little difference anyway), then via New York from Empire/ENY to "D" or Foster and then get over to Ocean -or- via Albany from Atlantic to Church, then via Brooklyn from Church to "D" or Foster and then get over to Ocean None of that is necessary, the current B44 local is every 3 minutes, just split it into the B44, which would use Bedford/Rogers, and the B44, which would use New York/Marcy Avenues: https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=213458373195564989412.0004c74e8e00ed72c9c71&msa=0&ll=40.684576,-73.927345&spn=0.018842,0.038495 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted August 15, 2012 Share #1189 Posted August 15, 2012 If the 15 and 43 were to be left alone and only the 44 and 49 were changed as I described (49 via NY/Brooklyn Aves), it would mean that the 49 and 43 would both be running down Brooklyn. The lack of bus service on Marcy and Stuyvesant does not seem to be a big deal, but what about having two buses go down Brooklyn while none go down Albany? Not a big deal b/c the B43 & the B49 serve different purposes..... I once proposed a bus line that would run north on New York/Albany Aves and south on Albany, but I was told that having a bus go up one street and come back down on another street that is so far away is not a good idea; the two route directions should be kept as close together as possible. I know the M5 is one of those "super-loops," but I do not know the M5 too well to determine whether or not its being a "super-loop" is a problem hmm.... a bus route along New York & Albany, I don't remember that one.....The counter-argument sounds like something BrooklynBus would say, and in this case I'd agree w/ that assessment.... The distance b/w NY av & Albany av is too great...... The old M6/current M5 routing on (and the distance between) broadway (SB) & 6th av (NB) around the village is a special circumstance.... due to the fact that Washington Sq Park is where 5th av ends (or begins, however you wanna look at it).... That in itself isn't much of a problem w/ the M5 b/c w/i soho & greenwich village, there's a lot of walking going on w/i the neighborhoods, and for long(er) distance travel, you have the subways that parallel the M5 NB routing & the M5 SB routing...... I hate to say it like this b/c I don't want to diminish its importance, but the difference in distance b/w the M5 NB & SB down there isn't as vital as say, a one way respective pair running up NY av & down albany av here in Brooklyn..... In any case, if I could only change the 44 and 49, I would do this:NB 44 local via Rogers, NB 49 via New York from Foster or "D" to Fulton, SB 49 via Brooklyn from Atlantic to Empire or ENY Ave (little difference anyway), then via New York from Empire/ENY to "D" or Foster and then get over to Ocean -or- via Albany from Atlantic to Church, then via Brooklyn from Church to "D" or Foster and then get over to Ocean I'm gonna simply what you're saying here (I just chose foster where you're torn b/w [foster & 'D'] b/c you may as well have buses remain on foster since buses would be coming off foster from ocean anyway) 1] NB 44 lcl up rogers {w/ the SB 44 lcl remaining down nostrand} 2] NB 49 up new york (b/w foster & fulton) 3a] SB 49 down brooklyn (b/w atlantic & empire) then down new york (b/w empire & foster), to ocean, etc. OR 3b] SB 49 down albany (b/w atlantic & church) then down brooklyn (b/w church & foster), to ocean, etc. ^^ This is looking to me like you want to streamline all 44 service (lcl & SBS) on rogers/nostrand & give NY av its own route by way of the 49..... The problem you'll always run into with that is, what would then run along bedford? Or do you tell current SB 49 riders to make their way to the SB 41 along f'bush (and walk) if they need bedford b/w empire & foster? Let's go w/ that last rhetorical - You'd then run into another problem... Since there's no SB service along franklin b/w empire & fulton that would put ppl off close enough to bedford, what bus alternative would current SB 49 riders b/w franklin av subway & empire have? unless you're telling those ppl to make their way over to nostrand for the 44 lcl/SBS..... I get what you're trying to do, but either way, and as I've been saying w/ all these B44 SBS talks, somehow someway some group of riders are gonna end up getting screwed - Even if they leave 44 lcl's on NY av. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threxx Posted August 15, 2012 Share #1190 Posted August 15, 2012 New York Avenue has always had too much service. A bus every 6 minutes is enough for New York/Marcy, Bedford/Rogers need the service more... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted August 15, 2012 Share #1191 Posted August 15, 2012 New York Avenue has always had too much service. A bus every 6 minutes is enough for New York/Marcy, Bedford/Rogers need the service more... Local B44 service does not run on 6 minute headways dude..... Rogers does not need the service more than New York av..... Rogers av on the B49 has been weak for the longest - longer than both you & I have been alive..... So can't no one honestly can sit up here & portray to me that the NB 49 on Rogers north of flatbush gets more usage than the the NB 44 from flatbush - Because it's a crock..... If anything, Rogers would be inheriting too much service with the NB B49 & the NB B44 SBS set to run along it...... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threxx Posted August 15, 2012 Share #1192 Posted August 15, 2012 Local B44 service does not run on 6 minute headways dude..... Rogers does not need the service more than New York av..... Rogers av on the B49 has been weak for the longest - longer than both you & I have been alive..... So can't no one honestly can sit up here & portray to me that the NB 49 on Rogers north of flatbush gets more usage than the the NB 44 from flatbush - Because it's a crock..... If anything, Rogers would be inheriting too much service with the NB B49 & the NB B44 SBS set to run along it...... Look at the post I made that you passed over... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted August 15, 2012 Share #1193 Posted August 15, 2012 Look at the post I made that you passed over... Yeah, what about it? The current B44 local don't run on no 3 min headways either.... Combined local & limited service, maybe, but locals by themselves all day don't run on 3 mins..... Rest of that post is not relevant to what you're stating about Rogers needing the service more than over NY av.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threxx Posted August 15, 2012 Share #1194 Posted August 15, 2012 Yeah, what about it? The current B44 local don't run on no 3 min headways either.... Combined local & limited service, maybe, but locals by themselves all day don't run on 3 mins..... Rest of that post is not relevant to what you're stating about Rogers needing the service more than over NY av.... https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=213458373195564989412.0004c7502224bd2b1e3ac&msa=0&ll=40.710052,-73.954425&spn=0.018835,0.038495 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious2train Posted August 15, 2012 Share #1195 Posted August 15, 2012 @B35: The two routes BrooklynIRT mentioned to replace the B44 on NY Av: http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/topic/26863-improving-the-b44-select-bus-service/page__st__120?do=findComment&comment=401717 @Threxx: It's better to consider New York and Marcy separately, as well as Rogers and Bedford. B35 hit the nail on the head, New York is a lot busier than Rogers, I honestly don't see how you can say Rogers needs the service more. Bedford is also livelier than Marcy. Rogers is faster than New York, and it should get something less erratic than present B49, but taking some B44 from New York and moving it to Rogers, even that I'm not sure is a good idea. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threxx Posted August 15, 2012 Share #1196 Posted August 15, 2012 @B35: The two routes BrooklynIRT mentioned to replace the B44 on NY Av: http://www.nyctransi...120#entry401717 @Threxx: It's better to consider New York and Marcy separately, as well as Rogers and Bedford. B35 hit the nail on the head, New York is a lot busier than Rogers, I honestly don't see how you can say Rogers needs the service more. Bedford is also livelier than Marcy. Rogers is faster than New York, and it should get something less erratic than present B49, but taking some B44 from New York and moving it to Rogers, even that I'm not sure is a good idea. Well, someone's going to get screwed. You can't have buses crossing over each other at Fulton, it would just be too confusing. This is the best thing I can think of. Someone is going to have less service because of the SBS... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted August 15, 2012 Share #1197 Posted August 15, 2012 Well, someone's going to get screwed..... lol..... Which was the very point I made at the end of that post to BrooklynIRT... Then for whatever reason, you came makin a blanket statement & posting a map that did nothing to reinforce your assessment of Rogers needing service over NY av...... @B35: The two routes BrooklynIRT mentioned to replace the B44 on NY Av: http://www.nyctransi...120#entry401717 Wasn't even thinkin about those two routes.... Thanks. Thought he may have been talking about something else I was unaware of..... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynIRT Posted August 15, 2012 Share #1198 Posted August 15, 2012 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynIRT Posted August 15, 2012 Share #1199 Posted August 15, 2012 (edited) And yes, you were correct about BrooklynBus telling me that having the two directions of the route too far apart is not a good idea Edited August 15, 2012 by BrooklynIRT 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynIRT Posted August 15, 2012 Share #1200 Posted August 15, 2012 (edited) Also could those trying to reach Bedford between Fulton and Empire not just use the 48, which is coming back? And yes, for Bedford between Empire and Foster I think they should use the B44 or B41 and then walk over Bedford not having service may not be as problematic as points between Nostrand and Utica not having bidirectional north-south service because Bedford has buses on nearby blocks (admittedly those are some long distances to nearby blocks, but still) while the smallest gap between north-south buses in East FB would be that from New York to Utica and there are not even any trains east of Nostrand in that area Edited August 15, 2012 by BrooklynIRT 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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