Committee Meeting May 2012

[Amtrak7]

• Restore B103 to pre-February route, June
  
• Reroute the Q48 in Flushing to turn around via Union St not in service September
  
• S79 SBS September 2012 (bus lanes and TSP, but no pay before boarding) Uses wrapped NG's with automated announcements.
  

http://www.mta.info/...21_1130_BUS.pdf

 

Also includes ordering 54 more MCI's. ($30.1M)

[checkmatechamp13]

LOL. They just can't make up their mind with the B103, can they?

 

For the S79, I assume it'll still make all local stops, correct? Like I always said, I definitely agree with bus lanes and TSP, so we'll see how this goes. I assume the S78 and express buses would get TSP as well, right?

[Cait Sith]

It's great that they are doing that for the N.I.S Q48s, its hell for them just to turn back around again.

[Amtrak7]

For the S79, I assume it'll still make all local stops, correct? Like I always said, I definitely agree with bus lanes and TSP, so we'll see how this goes. I assume the S78 and express buses would get TSP as well, right?

 

No. Only 22 stops.

[checkmatechamp13]

Alright. I thought I had to go out for something, but it turns out I didn't, so I checked out the S79 +SBS+ information.

 

I wonder what the headways will be for the S59 and S78. I would imagine the S59 would run every 15 minutes off-peak instead of 20, and the S78 might run every 12 minutes instead of every 15. I guess this would also help with the unreliability of the S78 to a certain extent. Even if it still bunches up, at least the time spent waiting would be a little shorter. Evening service would probably run every 20 minutes instead of every 30 minutes.

 

It would be nice if the last few S79s of the night were locals. I mean, you're only spending a little extra time picking up those passengers, but you're saving them from having to wait a long time for the next local bus.

 

In Eltingville, I think the S89 stops at Katan Avenue (though I'm not sure if they're having the S89 skip that now, since it doesn't show it on the timetable). So if that's the case, the S79 should stop there instead of at Genesee Avenue. Koch Blvd is an S89 stop, but the S79 would go straight from the Eltingville SIR station to Hylan Blvd. I guess it works for the S89 because it's towards the end of the route, so I guess it's alright if the S79 skips it.

 

For the reroute by KMart (I think it's a Target now), I think the only real reason the buses go down there is because it's a PITA to cross Richmond Avenue in that area. The fact that it passes by the Yukon Depot and makes it easier to switch the buses around is just a side benefit. The problem is that it takes away choices for the riders trying to get to the Eltingville area: Now they have to choose between waiting for the S59 or S79. But I guess it's just a case of trying to benefit the majority, and that stretch by the Yukon Depot is fairly slow (plus, the buses have to make the left turn onto Yukon Avenue, which adds time to the trip)

 

Like I said, I think this would be a good chance to get the S79A implemented to provide some more local service on Hylan Blvd, while also serving Giffords Lane.

 

And I think the reroute by the ETC is a great idea. It would be nice if the S59 took that route as well.

 

Obviously I know the other buses will be able to use the bus lanes, but it doesn't look like the other routes along Hylan Blvd (or Richmond Avenue) will benefit from TSP. I mean, if the equipment is already installed on the traffic lights, I don't think it would cost that much more to install it on the buses, and it would provide time savings for everybody.

[B35 via Church]

Whoa whoa whoa...... Something's rotten in the state of Denmark....

 

 

 

 

Are they really trying to sell that ridiculous diversion onto 5th & 7th avenues as being nothing more than a temporary diversion to the construction that was ongoing along 3rd?

 

Bullshit, the prior routing on 3rd was equivalent to the 5th & 7th av routing.....

 

"There is a perception that it is slower....." - man, GTFOH..... B103's did take longer to get downtown because of the geniuses that thought that would be a time-saving measure... I love how they conveniently omit the increased time on flatbush av between 5th & 3rd avenues & the traffic that plagues flatbush av. as being a factor in prolonged commuting times as well..... If it was supposedly equivalent, then why the hell now opt to move it from 5th & 7th? Better yet, why the hell have it moved from 3rd it in the first place.....

 

Amazing what people will say to try to cover their own asses.......

[Future ENY OP]

Whoa whoa whoa...... Something's rotten in the state of Denmark....

 

 

 

 

Are they really trying to sell that ridiculous diversion onto 5th & 7th avenues as being nothing more than a temporary diversion to the construction that was ongoing along 3rd?

 

Bullshit, the prior routing on 3rd was equivalent to the 5th & 7th av routing.....

 

"There is a perception that it is slower....." - man, GTFOH..... B103's did take longer to get downtown because of the geniuses that thought that would be a time-saving measure... I love how they conveniently omit the increased time on flatbush av between 5th & 3rd avenues & the traffic that plagues flatbush av. as being a factor in prolonged commuting times as well..... If it was supposedly equivalent, then why the hell now opt to move it from 5th & 7th? Better yet, why the hell have it moved from 3rd it in the first place.....

 

Amazing what people will say to try to cover their own asses.......

 

They new that 3rd Avenue was CLEARLY the better alternative when they took it off service and sent it to 5th and 7th Avenues.

Looks like the people of Winsdor Terrace didn't like buses in their neighborhoods.

 

Very AMAZING job . Windsor Terrace 1 0.

 

As for S79: Wrapped NG's? Now this is a clear example of depot swap that should of happen in the beginning. Charleston is built for ARTICS, why not send the S79 to Charleston, and Yukon could take on a Charleston line. Just IMO.

[checkmatechamp13]

As for S79: Wrapped NG's? Now this is a clear example of depot swap that should of happen in the beginning. Charleston is built for ARTICS, why not send the S79 to Charleston, and Yukon could take on a Charleston line. Just IMO.

 

Trust me. The S79 doesn't need artics.

[Future ENY OP]

Trust me. The S79 doesn't need artics.

 

I'll make that assessment for myself. I haven't been in Staten Isl in years.

Looks like I need to make a quick trip. BUT if you say they don't need (artics), I'll take your word.

 

1 thing for YUK: Don't take FB's NG's. for SBS service. Those 42xx's from YUK are breaking down.

Spotted 4248 and 4257 with service trucks within the last 2 weeks.. SMH. (Only tells you the lack of maintenance at YUK)

[Cait Sith]

Trust me. The S79 doesn't need artics.

 

To an extent, I agree. But in the case of SBS, however.....

 

 

As for S79: Wrapped NG's? Now this is a clear example of depot swap that should of happen in the beginning. Charleston is built for ARTICS, why not send the S79 to Charleston, and Yukon could take on a Charleston line. Just IMO.

 

Having been in Charleston, at least to me, it actually doesn't look as if it can handle articulated buses.

[B35 via Church]

Trust me. The S79 doesn't need artics.

 

This.

 

No route in SI is deserving of artics.... not even the S53.

[checkmatechamp13]

I'll make that assessment for myself. I haven't been in Staten Isl in years.

Looks like I need to make a quick trip. BUT if you say they don't need (artics), I'll take your word.

 

 

Well, during rush hours, they can get crowded in Brooklyn. They can actually get filled front-to-back in many cases during rush hour. But it did look like the buses were handling the crowds fairly well (this was when there were more O5s. I don't know how the O7s handle the crowds) Maybe slightly more frequent service could be warranted at times, but definitely not artics.

 

To an extent, I agree. But in the case of SBS, however.....

 

 

I don't really see how making a route +SBS+ automatically means it needs artics, though. I mean, (I hate to use this as an example), but if farebeaters can come in through the back on a 40-foot bus and fit in, then I don't see what the problem is with a POP system. Unless you're worried about the inspectors having enough room to inspect a crowded bus.

 

In any case, this isn't +SBS+ in the same way the current +SBS+ routes are. You still dip in a MetroCard just like a regular bus. The difference is that once on board, the trip will be faster because you have bus lanes and traffic signal priority (and they're making the S79 into a limited-only route, which will speed it up even more). I mean, this isn't even +SBS+, but just improved limited-stop service (I mean, you could argue that all +SBS+ routes are just improved limiteds, but whatever).

 

Of course, I'm very happy that it's being done this way, and I don't think POP will make much of a difference, but I'm just pointing out that it won't have POP.

[Cait Sith]

I don't really see how making a route +SBS+ automatically means it needs artics, though. I mean, (I hate to use this as an example), but if farebeaters can come in through the back on a 40-foot bus and fit in, then I don't see what the problem is with a POP system. Unless you're worried about the inspectors having enough room to inspect a crowded bus.

 

My thing is with the boarding, if you've seen how screwed up the M34/M34A boarding/exiting is, its gonna be just as bad on the S79 since there is only so much room for folks to stand, which is why in the coming months, the M34/34A will be running with artics. Inspectors along that line have a hell of a time inspecting fares along the M34 because of that small space when its crowded as hell. Now that its getting artics, they'll be more breathing room and folks wont have to fight their way out.

 

While the S79 doesn't get crowded, they'll be times, just like the M15 and M34 where its gonna bunch and become severely crowded, then what? What this will be is a longer demonstration of the M34+SBS+. I'm all for the NGs being SBS, don't get me wrong, it's the boarding and crowding issues that might occur since due to SBS, they'll be a reduction in local service, forcing folks over to SBS.

[checkmatechamp13]

My thing is with the boarding, if you've seen how screwed up the M34/M34A boarding/exiting is, its gonna be just as bad on the S79 since there is only so much room for folks to stand, which is why in the coming months, the M34/34A will be running with artics. Inspectors along that line have a hell of a time inspecting fares along the M34 because of that small space when its crowded as hell. Now that its getting artics, they'll be more breathing room and folks wont have to fight their way out.

 

While the S79 doesn't get crowded, they'll be times, just like the M15 and M34 where its gonna bunch and become severely crowded, then what? What this will be is a longer demonstration of the M34+SBS+. I'm all for the NGs being SBS, don't get me wrong, it's the boarding and crowding issues that might occur since due to SBS, they'll be a reduction in local service, forcing folks over to SBS.

 

 

But that's the thing: We don't have to worry about fare inspectors maneuvering through the crowds because it's still going to be the standard payment system.

 

And for the crowds, I don't see how it's going to be significantly different from today. There are times when the bus gets crowded and the passengers just deal with it. I mean, they are actually increasing the local service along the route (because if you look at the schedule, the headways are already every 15-20 minutes, and on a local/limited route, the service has to run more frequently than that). And since the running times are reduced, it'll mean they could get more productivity out of the same amount of equipment and labor, so it could lead to more frequent service on the S79 itself (plus there would be more revenue for them to work with)

 

The thing that I don't get is what they could really be doing with the S59 and S78 that would cost $300,000 (and wouldn't be at least partially balanced out by reduced running time leading to savings for the MTA). I mean, the headway changes I mentioned (probably 20 minutes to 15 minutes on the S59, and 15 minutes to 12 minutes on the S78) can't be that expensive, can they? Something just doesn't add up.

[Cait Sith]

But that's the thing: We don't have to worry about fare inspectors maneuvering through the crowds because it's still going to be the standard payment system.

 

And for the crowds, I don't see how it's going to be significantly different from today. There are times when the bus gets crowded and the passengers just deal with it. I mean, they are actually increasing the local service along the route (because if you look at the schedule, the headways are already every 15-20 minutes, and on a local/limited route, the service has to run more frequently than that). And since the running times are reduced, it'll mean they could get more productivity out of the same amount of equipment and labor, so it could lead to more frequent service on the S79 itself (plus there would be more revenue for them to work with)

fffffff

The thing that I don't get is what they could really be doing with the S59 and S78 that would cost $300,000 (and wouldn't be at least partially balanced out by reduced running time leading to savings for the MTA). I mean, the headway changes I mentioned (probably 20 minutes to 15 minutes on the S59, and 15 minutes to 12 minutes on the S78) can't be that expensive, can they? Something just doesn't add up.

 

 

Damn, I missed the part for the payment, that changes everything. I guess we'll have to wait and see what goes on since its to early too predict what will happen.

[Amtrak7]

To put that number in perspective, the S74/78 to Bricktown saved $300,000 in deadhead costs.

 

And if they label this "SBS" w/o the fare machines, this will be a PR nightmare! How do you get people to learn that not all SBS routes are prepaid (or postpaid for SI residents who've never ridden the M15/M34/Bx12)?

[TML]

For the Q48, I wonder how this reroute affects current stops at 39th & College Point, and Roosevelt & Janet - will they remain as is, or will they be moved?

[Threxx]

To put that number in perspective, the S74/78 to Bricktown saved $300,000 in deadhead costs.

 

And if they label this "SBS" w/o the fare machines, this will be a PR nightmare! How do you get people to learn that not all SBS routes are prepaid (or postpaid for SI residents who've never ridden the M15/M34/Bx12)?

 

 

People just have to deal with it. It's like the old rush-hour diamonds or the double letters. It's just a label.

[Guest Lance]

The thing is, all of the current and proposed SBS routes (M15, M34/34A, Bx12 and B44) are or will use off-board fare payment. The S79 will be the oddball of the SBS routes and only be an SBS route in name only. Off-board fare payment is one of the key features of the SBS program, so if they aren't going to use that, they should just call it a limited and be done with it.

[KeystoneRegional]

The thing is, all of the current and proposed SBS routes (M15, M34/34A, Bx12 and B44) are or will use off-board fare payment. The S79 will be the oddball of the SBS routes and only be an SBS route in name only. Off-board fare payment is one of the key features of the SBS program, so if they aren't going to use that, they should just call it a limited and be done with it.

 

 

Not to mention the amount of money spent on studying SBS on the S79 route. And I'd agree with the Limited designation, there is no point to name a route SBS when it is without off-board fare collection.

[Amtrak7]

The Q48 reroute apparently costs $200,000. That's shocking...

[GreatOne2k]

The thing is, all of the current and proposed SBS routes (M15, M34/34A, Bx12 and B44) are or will use off-board fare payment. The S79 will be the oddball of the SBS routes and only be an SBS route in name only. Off-board fare payment is one of the key features of the SBS program, so if they aren't going to use that, they should just call it a limited and be done with it.

 

 

This could be so Staten Island doesn't complain about not having any SBS routes at all. MTA initially proposed corridors in all boroughs.

[Q43LTD]

A little off topic, when are the Q41 and 52 changes go into effect?

[cotb16]

A little off topic, when are the Q41 and 52 changes go into effect?

 

 

For the Q21 and Q52, it starts July 1st. As for the Q41, I don't know.