The Official SPEED Thread

[Concourse Express]

Recently the northbound seems to be going really slowly between Brooklyn Bridge and passing Canal St. I can't remember; was it always this slow or were new timers installed this summer? I thought I remembered going faster there a few months ago.

 

 

I noticed this on some rides myself; don't know about timers but methinks it wouldn't make much sense - the stretch in question is upgrade...

[TheSubwayStation]

I noticed this on some rides myself; don't know about timers but methinks it wouldn't make much sense - the stretch in question is upgrade...

 

There is a curve, though, and before the (supposed) timers were installed, I've been on a train that almost slammed me onto the wall through it...There should be maybe a GT 25 there IMO, but it feels like trains have been going significantly slower than that.

[Concourse Express]

There is a curve, though, and before the (supposed) timers were installed, I've been on a train that almost slammed me onto the wall through it...There should be maybe a GT 25 there IMO, but it feels like trains have been going significantly slower than that.

 

 

25 would be too slow, especially going uphill. I understand the curves, but trains usually go faster through the curves bypassing Astor Place N/B. Random question: does the Bleecker transfer/construction have anything to do with the slowdown (assuming no new timers)?

[TheSubwayStation]

25 would be too slow, especially going uphill. I understand the curves, but trains usually go faster through the curves bypassing Astor Place N/B. Random question: does the Bleecker transfer/construction have anything to do with the slowdown (assuming no new timers)?

 

Firstly, the maximum allowable speed for a curve isn't affected by uphill or downhill grades. I'm pretty sure that the tracks are tilted through the curves at Astor Place, which allows trains to go faster. Secondly, the area that I'm referring to is between Brooklyn Bridge and Canal St northbound, so it wouldn't have anything to do with Bleecker St.

[Concourse Express]

Hmm, I guess I'm thinking of a different area (the n/b trains I were on slowed down b/w Canal and just past Spring St and hauled b/w BB and Canal; this happened on weekends when the wasn't running to Manhattan and I waited at least 5 mins for a train).

 

In the area in question, my experience is usually this: a bit slow until after the train bypasses the abandoned Worth St station, then regular speed. Never saw any timers there...

[TwoTimer]

There are still no timers, just observed speed limits of 25 leaving Brooklyn Bridge and 26 around the S curve at Spring. Some T/O obey, others don't. If a radar gun was spotted in the area (most likely on Canal St plat as the train goes by), most everyone obeys the limit a few days until confidence is rebuilt again.

[Fresh Pond]

Man the can really pick up speed around Ralph n/b but along comes the timers...

 

its even better on the local track

[subway4832]

A motorman told me he got his 62's up to 68 mph!!!!! Which is insane, and his 142A's, before the MTA capped them, was about 74 mph, which is fast. Now as far as the current sysyem, I've asked a few motorman the same question, how fast have you gotten up to, R142 on the 2, 50 mph, R142A, I've heard 55 and 50 and 49, obviously on the 4 line, and the 62's up to 68 on the 4. Crazy, how fast is the R142A anyway?

[Fan Railer]

The speedometers on the 62s are unreliable at best. And the 142As never hit anything past 55 in their lifetimes.

Whatever you're hearing is completely false.

[subway4832]

Ohh ok, yeah he said when they got them hot off the press they tested them up to at least 70, even though their top speed is 67 m.p.h. According to Kawasaki, nycsubway.org, and videos

[Fan Railer]

yea.... no

[subway4832]

[RollOver]

Delete.

Edited March 17, 2013 by RollOverMyHead

[subway4832]

What the heck, just trying to post stuff

[SubwayGuy]

Wow, I've seen the tracks on Google Earth and I always thought it would be fast, but I had no idea that it would be THAT fast.

 

Nobody says much of the southbound Lexington Av Express from 125 to 86 St. I know that n/b can reach 49 MPH, but this s/b R142A reaches 47-48, I think: (go to 4:45 for the fast part)

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZBFhS_bcY4&feature=related[/media]

EDIT: I posted the wrong video before. I just fixed it. Thanks, Brightonkid7.

 

Besides the Upper White Plains Road, here are the rest of the fast ones in the IRT:

-Northbound 86-125 I've seen 50.

-Joralemon tube S/B I've seen 50.

-Hunts Point -> Parkchester 48-49 passing through Morrison-Sound View

-116 -> 125 on Broadway used to set all kinds of records before they slowed the trains down. A good train can still do 42. I've heard tales from back in the day of 52.

-42 -> 59 on Lex express 46-47.

-96 -> 72 on Broadway express gets you about 43-44.

-14 -> Chambers on Broadway express gets you about 46-47 (and I've seen 48) passing Houston before the timers by Canal.

-Entering 33rd S/B on the 7, 44 is possible with a good train but that's about it since you gotta stop to make the station...

Edited March 22, 2013 by SubwayGuy

[SubwayGuy]

see red

 

these are great speed that i remember .

train express from 125 street to grand central and vice versa. 125->86 no restrictions, but entering 86 is uphill so you'll lose the speed on the way in. the only thing is the 59 street on express track causes too many slow down because once it start speeding then you need to slow and stop 86->59 could be EXTREMELY fast, but there are timers in the area under 77 St. to limit "excessive" train speed until the track straightens. Then it's a downgrade again into 59, but you won't enter at full speed cuz of those timers earlier, so mid 40's is the best you'll do here.. everywhere is like you have to hang on real hard or you get knock down.we all can understand the slow down when they are approaching the 42 street grand terminal because of sharp curves. 15MPH entering Grand Central (enforced by timers). The other part that is great express speed is between 42 street grand central to 14 street. Of course we all understand they need to slow down near 14 street because of that sharp curves. 20MPH entering 14th, posted restriction only.

had a great express between 14 street and 34 street. 20MPH entering 34th, posted restriction only. Going into 14th Southbound or 72nd in either direction is faster however. with 3 stops in the middle is like you zap right thru that you can miss seeing that stop. Also the other street is 42 to 72 street with swaying that will knock you down no restriction entering, usually come in 43-45 northbound.
 

Can anyone tell me if there are timers all along the s/b from Union Sq-14 St to Brooklyn Bridge? It's hard to tell because of all of the usual Lexington line delays...

 

Yes. All the way from south of Bleecker through Canal to protect the curves in the area of Spring St.

Edited March 22, 2013 by SubwayGuy

[SubwayGuy]

 

Regular riders think the same thing as well.

 

I remember when I rode a R62 train a few years ago (The line was mostly NTT for a couple years now) and these two teenagers got on and said "These old shits are faster than the new shits" Implying that the 62 is faster than the 142/A, which isn't the case.

 

Its crazy though as the B cars on the IRT NTT only one truck has motors where's with the 62/A all the trucks have motors, and yet the 142/A take off faster, it would have dope if all the trucks on the IRT NTT had motors though, the R160s seem faster.

 

When the tech trains first came out they were significantly faster than they are now, but were basically governed down to their current configuration. They absolutely used to fly.

 

[SubwayGuy]

Most timers are there for a good reason, IMO. Some aren't. Feel free to ask about any specific timers and what they're for, and someone (possibly me or FanRailer, likely TwoTimer) can tell you.

 

Generally, timers are to:

 

a. Protect sharp curves

b. Protect switches (most timers can't tell if they're set for diverging routes)

c. Enforce speed limits on down-hill tracks, where a train going too fast might not be able to stop quickly enough if it ran a red signal and a train was ahead (potential rear-end collision). Example: almost all of the East River tubes have timers for this purpose.

 

A few timers are designed to keep trains from overrunning stations (e.g. Utica Av and Broadway Jct , and Jay St , some others too). I don't like these timers; if a train overruns the station, it's the T/O's fault and not a safety hazard.

 

I personally would like to know about the timers on the n/b passing Christopher St; I can't seem to figure out what safety hazard is there. And why do some rarely-used switches need to be protected by timers, while others don't seem to?

 

 

Because there is a slight curve there, and visibility into the station is restricted. That timer was put there because before the trains were slowed down, someone rounded that curve on the post at over 50 MPH, and three signal maintainers were working under point to point flagging just south of the station (and the yellow lamp was not visible due to the curve - all this was before the improvements to the flagging rules that happened in 2007). Needless to say, they never had a chance. Then the timer was added, forcing the train to slow down to (depending on how the T/O takes it) anywhere from 30-20 (personally I brake late since it lets me get on the circuit sooner to start the timer, and by the time the red clears when I'm at the yellow, I'm anywhere 24-26). But others may do different. Then once the timer clears and if all other signals are clear, you can wrap it up and bring it into the station, and have a reasonably safe range of vision to stop should you need to. If signals are not clear, there is safe stopping distance and time for you to react to make a controlled approach to your leader.

Edited March 22, 2013 by SubwayGuy

[SubwayGuy]

I neglected to mention on these (see red):

Besides the Upper White Plains Road, here are the rest of the fast ones in the IRT:

-Northbound 86-125 I've seen 50. R142/A

-Joralemon tube S/B I've seen 50. R142/A

-Hunts Point -> Parkchester 48-49 passing through Morrison-Sound View R142/A

-116 -> 125 on Broadway used to set all kinds of records before they slowed the trains down. A good train can still do 42. I've heard tales from back in the day of 52. R62/A

-42 -> 59 on Lex express 46-47. R142/A

-96 -> 72 on Broadway express gets you about 43-44. R62/A...add 2-3MPH for R142/A

-14 -> Chambers on Broadway express gets you about 46-47 (and I've seen 48) passing Houston before the timers by Canal. R142/A...minus 2-3MPH for R62/A

-Entering 33rd S/B on the 7, 44 is possible with a good train but that's about it since you gotta stop to make the station... seen it once...usually 40-42 R62/A

[RollOver]

Is the timer at Franklin and at near Utica S/B on the Fulton corridor gonna stay permanent? I do notice at least very few trains do blast into Nostrand and into Utica at 40-45 MPH but that's it...An Howard Beach that I was on 2 days ago wasn't the timer express when passing through Franklin and coming into Utica.

Edited March 22, 2013 by RollOverMyHead

[2 Train Master]

Is the timer at Franklin and at near Utica S/B on the Fulton corridor gonna stay permanent? I do notice at least very few trains do blast into Nostrand and into Utica at 40-45 MPH but that's it...An Howard Beach that I was on 2 days ago wasn't the timer express when passing through Franklin and coming into Utica.

It's been like that for sometime they clear on the post,who knows though. The one at Franklin clears nearly a car length or so and the ones between Kingston Throop and Utica clear I would say 40-50 feet. Theres another set of timers that clear just as the ones btwn Kingston and Utica they're btwn Chambers and Canal St N/B entering Canal St it can be as high as 35 or so.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

When the tech trains first came out they were significantly faster than they are now, but were basically governed down to their current configuration. They absolutely used to fly.

 

I remember riding the R142As on the express in the Bronx when they were new (summer 2000). They sure were fast on the Westchester Avenue el.

Edited March 25, 2013 by T to Dyre Avenue

[subway4832]

They still are they hit in the high 40's and possibly 50, I've clocked about 49 and 50 for a split second, from parckchester to hunts point.

[SubwayGuy]

A motorman told me he got his 62's up to 68 mph!!!!! Which is insane, and his 142A's, before the MTA capped them, was about 74 mph, which is fast. Now as far as the current sysyem, I've asked a few motorman the same question, how fast have you gotten up to, R142 on the 2, 50 mph, R142A, I've heard 55 and 50 and 49, obviously on the 4 line, and the 62's up to 68 on the 4. Crazy, how fast is the R142A anyway?

 

R142 and R142A are governed to a maximum speed of 55. It is REALLY, REALLY difficult to do more than 50.

 

Originally delivered, 55-60 is reasonable...they were fast before being slowed down.

 

68 on an R62/62A is likely nonsense since those speedometers are unreliable. Before they removed the field shunts those trains could really move (in the 50's), but the only RUMORED case of an R62/A going over 60 was wrong railing in the Joralemon tube and that's unconfirmed because from what I understand it was done once, and no telling if the speedometer was reliable.

 

Today, R62/A are slightly slower than the R142/A due to lower high end acceleration, but they can still reach 47-48. From 72nd to Times Square, south of 50th Street in particular on the Broadway Express, a 62 can reach those rare speeds.

[SubwayGuy]

Had an R62 on the 3 reach 50 south of 50th St. earlier this week. That was a GOOD train, good brakes on it as well (yes I said that about an R62).

 

And yes, the speedometer was reliable.