TheSubwayStation Posted July 14, 2012 Author Share #201 Posted July 14, 2012 (edited) Wow, the R160s seem to be really fast trains...How come the MTA considers them safe to be used with the signal system? After all, acceleration was found to be an issue in the Williamsburg bridge accident (NOT INTENDED TO BE A RETURN TO THE FIELD SHUNTING DISCUSSION!). EDIT: maybe they have good emergency brakes to allow them to stop quickly after red signals...I don't know. Edited July 14, 2012 by TheSubwayStation 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTimer Posted July 14, 2012 Share #202 Posted July 14, 2012 They have governors that slow the trains after 50mph that shut off at 48. Generally anything over 55 the MTA considers unsafe. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSubwayStation Posted July 14, 2012 Author Share #203 Posted July 14, 2012 They have governors that slow the trains after 50mph that shut off at 48. Generally anything over 55 the MTA considers unsafe. That makes sense, although the crash happened at 35 or so MPH. The signals on the bridge were designed for 28 or so MPH. Apparently, that's why they slowed down the SMEEs (because a lot of signals were designed for slower trains). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Railfan Posted July 14, 2012 Share #204 Posted July 14, 2012 That makes sense, although the crash happened at 35 or so MPH. The signals on the bridge were designed for 28 or so MPH. Apparently, that's why they slowed down the SMEEs (because a lot of signals were designed for slower trains). That makes absolutely no sense. All trains have brakes to slow down to the required speed regardless of their acceleration and max speed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSubwayStation Posted July 14, 2012 Author Share #205 Posted July 14, 2012 That makes absolutely no sense. All trains have brakes to slow down to the required speed regardless of their acceleration and max speed. But, there have been cases of T/O's not following speed limits. Human error can always happen. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTimer Posted July 14, 2012 Share #206 Posted July 14, 2012 (edited) But, there have been cases of T/O's not following speed limits. Human error can always happen. Prime example. Railfans LOVE the express run from Roosevelt to QP or 21-Q. In fact it might be their favorite run in Queens (some might prefer Roosevelt-CTL northbound as you can actually see the stations going by and visually see the speed). Back to s/b, 50+ by time you enter the curve. The actual speed limit... 30mph leaving Roosevelt (not the blinding 40+ as the train whirrs by 65th) and 35 by the curve. No resume is ever reached, even after the timers go by, so really without timers, its 35 all the way into Queens Plaza (remember, when the track was signaled, there was no tunnel going down to go into Queensbridge). Edited July 14, 2012 by TwoTimer 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSubwayStation Posted July 14, 2012 Author Share #207 Posted July 14, 2012 Prime example. Railfans LOVE the express run from Roosevelt to QP or 21-Q. In fact it might be their favorite run in Queens (some might prefer Roosevelt-CTL northbound as you can actually see the stations going by and visually see the speed). Back to s/b, 50+ by time you enter the curve. The actual speed limit... 30mph leaving Roosevelt (not the blinding 40+ as the train whirrs by 65th) and 35 by the curve. No resume is ever reached, even after the timers go by, so really without timers, its 35 all the way into Queens Plaza (remember, when the track was signaled, there was no tunnel going down to go into Queensbridge). Are the speed limits stopping distance-related? Because if trains can't stop safely from over 35 MPH, then sadly, they shouldn't be going faster than 35 MPH... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTimer Posted July 15, 2012 Share #208 Posted July 15, 2012 No, that's just the speed limit. 35 is the speed of that curve, but of course 50 can be obtained. My personal best was 51 on a 160 on a . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSubwayStation Posted July 15, 2012 Author Share #209 Posted July 15, 2012 No, that's just the speed limit. 35 is the speed of that curve, but of course 50 can be obtained. My personal best was 51 on a 160 on a . Wait, so the speed limit's because of the curve? I thought it was one of those things about stopping distance because of the signal spacing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTimer Posted July 15, 2012 Share #210 Posted July 15, 2012 Speed limit is based on any or all of the following: stopping distance, visibility, curve speed (of which train can take it comfortably for passengers), switch 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamaica Line Posted July 15, 2012 Share #211 Posted July 15, 2012 Speed limit is based on any or all of the following: stopping distance, visibility, curve speed (of which train can take it comfortably for passengers), switch So that explains why some operators aren't hesitant to speed through some curves... Not necessarily because the train might derail but comfort to the passengers isn't much of a thought... Thou of course they know they're doing more damage to the inner rail... Thou I remember being in the last car of a racing through the curve at Queensboro s/b. It felt as if the right-sided wheels tilted off the rails a bit. Ntm I was pressed against one of the left sided doors so that only added to the effect. The strangest sounds could've been heard from the trucks... One of the best curves to rip through with Brighton Beach n/b coming in second... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTimer Posted July 15, 2012 Share #212 Posted July 15, 2012 (edited) So that explains why some operators aren't hesitant to speed through some curves... Not necessarily because the train might derail but comfort to the passengers isn't much of a thought... Thou of course they know they're doing more damage to the inner rail... Thou I remember being in the last car of a racing through the curve at Queensboro s/b. It felt as if the right-sided wheels tilted off the rails a bit. Ntm I was pressed against one of the left sided doors so that only added to the effect. The strangest sounds could've been heard from the trucks... One of the best curves to rip through with Brighton Beach n/b coming in second... It really is supposed to be 20mph all the way into Queensboro Plaza s/b, the timer there only enforces the most sensitive area of that stretch of track, which is the trailing point switch leaving Beebe. At the same time, there are archaic speed signs that are around the system at a time when there were particular track anamolies that were corrected or later enforced with timers. One main example that comes to mind is the 20mph into 34th-HSq on the . The little mini 'S' curve has been eliminated and its almost perfectly straight. But the speed sign is still there, and now is prime radar gun fodder (under the follow directions, even though they are technically pointless, law). While there is a switch at the other end of the station, it is far enough outside the station (almost 300 feet, 13mph switch) that the speed enforcement no longer should be there, or at least raised higher (30mph really is correct, I know they dont want 's on the post down the hill into 34th anyway). Another example is right on the track next to it. It used to be 25mph into Herald Sq against the wall on 2 track. As many of you know, there is a GT20 two shot in the station in that location now (since T/O's often ignored the speed restriction), but the 25mph still exists. Another one that sticks out in my mind is the curve onto QBL from Hillside on the . There are a couple of two shots at GT25 (they clear at 21). The original older speed sign of 28mph is still there. Going north, the same curve is 30mph. Edited July 15, 2012 by TwoTimer 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSubwayStation Posted July 15, 2012 Author Share #213 Posted July 15, 2012 @ TwoTimer, can you please tell me where the timers are on the Fulton express between Euclid Av and Hoyt-Schermerhorn, and how fast they clear? Oh, and you don't have to mention the slow ones coming into Broadway Jct; I already have heard about those. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTimer Posted July 16, 2012 Share #214 Posted July 16, 2012 (edited) Are you eventually going to ask me about all the entire IND/BMT express tracks? Just want to know. Edited July 16, 2012 by TwoTimer 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan Railer Posted July 16, 2012 Share #215 Posted July 16, 2012 (edited) Are you eventually going to ask me about all the entire IND/BMT express tracks? Just want to know. LOL you might as well just take an MTA template map, and edit in the timed sections and whatnot. OR you could take the track maps on nycsubway.org and use them instead haha. Edited July 16, 2012 by Fan Railer 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSubwayStation Posted July 16, 2012 Author Share #216 Posted July 16, 2012 Are you eventually going to ask me about all the entire IND/BMT express tracks? Just want to know. LOL you might as well just take an MTA template map, and edit in the timed sections and whatnot. OR you could take the track maps on nycsubway.org and use them instead haha. Nah, don't bother with any of this. If you don't want to answer any more questions about this kind of thing, I'm okay with that. If I REALLY want to figure out things like this, I can do so myself. I didn't mean to annoy you guys. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTimer Posted July 17, 2012 Share #217 Posted July 17, 2012 But really, there are plenty of R32 equipment out there on the , ride one in the RFW and see the timers clear for themselves. Just be sure the train is not going over 45 at any point no matter how loud the motors sound. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brighton Express Posted July 18, 2012 Share #218 Posted July 18, 2012 Had me the new R46 at 65 MPH comin from 125 St to 59 St on the . I entered 59 St at 45 MPH. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threxx Posted July 18, 2012 Share #219 Posted July 18, 2012 Had me the new R46 at 65 MPH comin from 125 St to 59 St on the . I entered 59 St at 45 MPH. This is in OpenBVE right? I can't get that thing to go faster than 45 MPH on that stretch... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSubwayStation Posted July 18, 2012 Author Share #220 Posted July 18, 2012 Had me the new R46 at 65 MPH comin from 125 St to 59 St on the . I entered 59 St at 45 MPH. Gee, OpenBVE seems pretty inaccurate... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Railfan Posted July 18, 2012 Share #221 Posted July 18, 2012 Gee, OpenBVE seems pretty inaccurate... well not to hijack this thread for openbve stuff, but im pretty sure that's how much speed you would get if you ignored all timers and limits and just blast into the stations. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSubwayStation Posted July 18, 2012 Author Share #222 Posted July 18, 2012 well not to hijack this thread for openbve stuff, but im pretty sure that's how much speed you would get if you ignored all timers and limits and just blast into the stations. Nope. Let me make this clear: 65 MPH is NOT possible anywhere in the system. Let alone the southbound CPW express, which really isn't THAT fast, even without timers. I'm guessing 40-45 max without the timers. 50-55 may be possible northbound with no timers, but not southbound. Maybe 60 MPH would be possible in the 60 St tube with no timers, but that area has a HUGE downhill, which the southbound CPW express lacks... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTimer Posted July 18, 2012 Share #223 Posted July 18, 2012 The only place in the system 60 can be clocked timer free is the 60th tube southbound (not even northbound, its a wrap tube + ignore timers as is and only 55 can be done). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brighton Express Posted July 18, 2012 Share #224 Posted July 18, 2012 This is in OpenBVE right? I can't get that thing to go faster than 45 MPH on that stretch... 45 MPH coming in the station. 65 MPH was the max for my stretch. I had the R44 BETA at 75 MPH coming into the Express on Carrol St. And I took the R42 and hit 80 MPH from 168 St to 145 St. TwoTimer have you ever had anything Express on the past Smith St on the Viaduct? This is not really to see the speed but I was just curious. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Railfan Posted July 18, 2012 Share #225 Posted July 18, 2012 Nope. Let me make this clear: 65 MPH is NOT possible anywhere in the system. Let alone the southbound CPW express, which really isn't THAT fast, even without timers. I'm guessing 40-45 max without the timers. 50-55 may be possible northbound with no timers, but not southbound. Maybe 60 MPH would be possible in the 60 St tube with no timers, but that area has a HUGE downhill, which the southbound CPW express lacks... woah , no need to yell at me. Im just stating that the current openbve routes aren't the most accurate as they don't contain any timers on the A line. since 168 to 145 doesn't have timers in the route, is mostly Downhill and if you get a un-tuned train in the simulator then yea you can hit 60+ in that section . Im not talking about real life. Of course you can't hit 70 in the subway, maybe like you stated, in the 60 street tube you can hit a high speed. Again this is about the simulator not real life . Now back to the speed thread . B) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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