Upcoming (J) Train G.O. Question

[Mr Railfan]

On this upcoming Weekday G.O on August 29 and August 30,

 

 

http://travel.mtanyct.info/serviceadvisory/routeStatusResult.aspx?tag=ALL&date=08/29/2012&time=&method=getstatus4

 

It says that Jamaica Center bound Trains will skip Canal Street and Bowery, which leads to my question:

will the train be going via the abandoned side of Canal Street and Bowery? If so that would be a good video opportunity to see the current state of those sides. From what i remember those sides are completely covered in graffiti.

[Threxx]

On this upcoming Weekday G.O on August 29 and August 30,

 

 

Late Night, 11:45 PM Wed to 5 AM Thu, Aug 29 - 30

 

For service to these stations, take the to Essex St and transfer to a Broad St-bound .

 

For service from these stations, take the to Chambers St and transfer to a Jamaica Center-bound . "

 

 

http://travel.mtanyc...thod=getstatus4

 

It says that Jamaica Center bound Trains will skip Canal Street and Bowery, which leads to my question:

will the train be going via the abandoned side of Canal Street and Bowery? If so that would be a good video opportunity to see the current state of those sides. From what i remember those sides are completely covered in graffiti.

 

 

The open side of Bowery is completely covered in graffiti...

[Quill Depot]

That may not be so. (Maybe they are doing station repairs). Trains may not switch tracks. They may just run on the normal uptown track.

[Eric B]

IF they're skipping in that direction, they must be using the bypass track, and doing some work on the normal track. They do use it for reroutes when there's a delay at Canal or Bowery, so it figures they could have a G.O using it.

[FriedChikkin]

To the best of my memory, from what I can see of the closed off platform area while on the Bowery platform, the closed off section of Bowery Station has had its tracks removed. Am I smoking crack?

 

 

 

 

EDIT: Anyone know the G.O. number? I can't find anything online covering those dates and location. I'm pretty sure it has to be station rehabilitation as what they were doing with Broadway/Nassau (aka Fulton Street) for the platform and the running up the local track when they were working on Herald Square.

[Novabus 5000]

If You look at the track map from NYC Subway.org, if you look at this, how would the train switch onto the abandoned side?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mr Railfan]

If You look at the track map from NYC Subway.org, if you look at this, how would the train switch onto the abandoned side?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That track map is incorrect , there is a Switch south of Canal street that allows them to switch to the unused side and runs all the way up to Essex

[Mr Railfan]

I updated that section of the map a little :

 

 

This is how it looks now. There's also no track on one side of the abandoned platform

[Threxx]

See, this is why you should never trust those track maps. They still don't show the new switches at 74th Street...

[Queens Surface]

See, this is why you should never trust those track maps. They still don't show the new switches at 74th Street...

 

 

Well the maps have not been updated in quite a while, so yeah.

[Snowblock]

I updated that section of the map a little :

 

This is how it looks now. There's also no track on one side of the abandoned platform

 

 

Really? So the M still stops at Canal St?

 

The GO for August 29 is not gonna get posted for a couple more weeks. We'll find out then, but it sounds like the Jamaica bound J's will be running via J1. If not, why would they have to bypass Canal and Bowery?

[Mr Railfan]

Really? So the M still stops at Canal St?

 

 

 

Ha , i didn't notice the old M and W were still on the map. here i fixed it:

 

[Eric B]

To the best of my memory, from what I can see of the closed off platform area while on the Bowery platform, the closed off section of Bowery Station has had its tracks removed. Am I smoking crack?

Like Canal, that's just the track closest to the current tracks (J3) that was removed. The far track against the wall (J1) is still there.

[Mtatransit]

I remember the last time they used the trackage is the skip stop in 1999. Any reason for that to end?

[AndrewJC]

I remember the last time they used the trackage is the skip stop in 1999. Any reason for that to end?

 

 

All northbound trains used track J1 until the connection to J4 was completed. The Z didn't use J3 or J4 in 1999 - J3/J4 terminated at Canal.

[Threxx]

I had an idea for Nassau service that would have and trains skipping Canal and Bowery using the "express tracks" (a fence would be put up between the tracks and the platform) and having a new local line run Chambers Street-Rockaway Parkway or Crecent Street.

[TriboroughBridge]

They can't use the abandon side of Bowery, cause there are no tracks.

 

 

Now that I got that out of the way, I have a question. What kind of construction do they plan on doing?

It's not like a station that has side platforms, where they can close off one platform, it's an island and both sides use it, and we all know, that it's not track work.

[CenSin]

I've posted corrections to the map before. I don't know where, but a lot of track has been removed and the track configurations simplified. The former northbound local track now acts as a "third track" for the current northbound local; to get on it, the switch must be made south of Canal Street and the two tracks only merge east of Essex Street. The southbound local has no such luxury, however.

[Mtatransit]

All northbound trains used track J1 until the connection to J4 was completed. The Z didn't use J3 or J4 in 1999 - J3/J4 terminated at Canal.

 

Well the Z must have run express someway in manhattan Map of 1999 http://www.nycsubway...mer-sub-rus.gif Map of 2001 july http://www.nycsubway...-2001-07-22.gif and stop running in 2002 http://www.nycsubway...-2002-01-28.gif . I even have a map of 1998 myself and it show Z runs express. Look at Bowery Sta

[Daniel The Cool]

They can't use the abandon side of Bowery, cause there are no tracks.

 

 

Now that I got that out of the way, I have a question. What kind of construction do they plan on doing?

It's not like a station that has side platforms, where they can close off one platform, it's an island and both sides use it, and we all know, that it's not track work.

 

 

They can northbound actually. There's tracks there. And how do I know? I rode the R1 - R9 Vintage train through there back in 2010. so its not gone

[realizm]

I had an idea for Nassau service that would have and trains skipping Canal and Bowery using the "express tracks" (a fence would be put up between the tracks and the platform) and having a new local line run Chambers Street-Rockaway Parkway or Crecent Street.

 

 

An innovative idea in itself but that would displace needed service at Canal Street, a very busy station in a very busy location in Manhattan. Besides not as many people commute to downtown Manhattan to work as was the case say two decades ago.

[Threxx]

An innovative idea in itself but that would displace needed service at Canal Street, a very busy station in a very busy location in Manhattan. Besides not as many people commute to downtown Manhattan to work as was the case say two decades ago.

 

 

Here's the full plan:

and trains would serve Broad, Fulton, Chambers, and Essex Streets, running at 14 TPH, running peak express b/w Broadway Junction and Marcy Avenue.

 

A new (U) service would serve Chambers Street, Canal Street, Bowery and Essex Street. It would run between Broadway Junction, Rockaway Parkway or Crecent Street (off peak only) to Chambers Street, running local in Manhattan.

 

2 problems though:

Capacity problems: The (J)/(Z) is 14 TPH, the (U) is 8, and the is 8, reaching a total of 30. One stalled train could screw up the bridge.

Lack of service to Canal Street and Bowery, as you mentioned.

[NX Express]

The Williamsburg Bridge can't handle 30tph because of its signalling, and a bigger problem would be Myrtle Junction.

 

Additionally: why would you so drastically increase B'way-Brooklyn service just to skip two stops (one of which is very important)?

 

It seems like a solution looking for a problem.

[Mr Railfan]

Here's the full plan:

and trains would serve Broad, Fulton, Chambers, and Essex Streets, running at 14 TPH, running peak express b/w Broadway Junction and Marcy Avenue.

 

A new (U) service would serve Chambers Street, Canal Street, Bowery and Essex Street. It would run between Broadway Junction, Rockaway Parkway or Crecent Street (off peak only) to Chambers Street, running local in Manhattan.

 

2 problems though:

Capacity problems: The (J)/(Z) is 14 TPH, the (U) is 8, and the is 8, reaching a total of 30. One stalled train could screw up the bridge.

Lack of service to Canal Street and Bowery, as you mentioned.

 

 

Ha! i would love to see this. The amount of bottle necking at Essex during rush hour is already unbearable. There's always a or waiting for an to cross ahead into the bridge. This leads to another train directly behind the or that's already in the stop. With your plan , there would be so much service that not only the signaling on the bridge wont handle but there would be delays on the leading up to Bway - Lafayette and thus delaying train service and the rest of the 6 ave lines. Plus there's not enough cars for this.

[AndrewJC]

Well the Z must have run express someway in manhattan Map of 1999 http://www.nycsubway...mer-sub-rus.gif Map of 2001 july http://www.nycsubway...-2001-07-22.gif and stop running in 2002 http://www.nycsubway...-2002-01-28.gif . I even have a map of 1998 myself and it show Z runs express. Look at Bowery Sta

 

 

The Z simply bypassed the station on the regular local track, as did the J during the times that the M ran into Manhattan. I think that was discontinued when the Williamsburg Bridge was shut down in 1999 and never reestablished after it opened.

 

They can northbound actually. There's tracks there. And how do I know? I rode the R1 - R9 Vintage train through there back in 2010. so its not gone

 

 

One track, to be precise - J3 was removed but J1 is still there.