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pelhamlocal

Question about 6th. Ave. (A) bullet on 110b's

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Anyone know the purpose or meaning to this, was it maybe a early proposal/precursor for the (V) ?

thnx :huh::)

 

 

I do not think so. They might have been proposing running the a along the (D) from 59 St to 34 St, and the (F) from 34 St to Jay St, then along the (A). I know the R110B had plenty bullets and programs, but no, I don't think it has anything to do with the (V).

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If i remember , the Orange A was placed in in case of the A running to Coney Island. It's yellow since it would run via 6 ave from 59 st to Brooklyn then down to CI. I forgot which line it was supposed to run down to CI by.

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There was an incident that required Penn Station (A)(C)(E) to be shut at that time. One of the suggested alternatives was merging the 20px-Q_Train_%281988-2001%29.svg.png and the (A), resulting in an orange A.

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Guest Lance

The full story (some of it courtesy of Eric B's Line by Line History) is that asbestos was found on the 8th Avenue line in the fall of '89, forcing the shutdown of the A and a reroute of the orange Q up to 207 St from 57 St/6 Av. Since folks weren't feeling the love for the orange Q rolling up the Central Park West line, similar to how the M/V debate went in early 2010, when there were calls for budgetary reductions, the orange A was created to quell the cries of the loss of the legendary A. The line would've run from 207 St to either Brighton Beach or Coney Island via Central Park West local and 6th Avenue express. The rollsign was on the 110Bs in anticipation of such a service. Of course, since none of that ever came to pass, it doesn't matter. Oddly enough, the bullet for a line that will never run is only on a train that will never run.

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The full story (some of it courtesy of Eric B's Line by Line History) is that asbestos was found on the 8th Avenue line in the fall of '89, forcing the shutdown of the A and a reroute of the orange Q up to 207 St from 57 St/6 Av. Since folks weren't feeling the love for the orange Q rolling up the Central Park West line, similar to how the M/V debate went in early 2010, when there were calls for budgetary reductions, the orange A was created to quell the cries of the loss of the legendary A. The line would've run from 207 St to either Brighton Beach or Coney Island via Central Park West local and 6th Avenue express. The rollsign was on the 110Bs in anticipation of such a service. Of course, since none of that ever came to pass, it doesn't matter. Oddly enough, the bullet for a line that will never run is only on a train that will never run.

 

 

Good story. How about that. So my (A) to Brighton Beach did exist after all. It just never got a chance to see the light.

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The full story (some of it courtesy of Eric B's Line by Line History) is that asbestos was found on the 8th Avenue line in the fall of '89, forcing the shutdown of the A and a reroute of the orange Q up to 207 St from 57 St/6 Av. Since folks weren't feeling the love for the orange Q rolling up the Central Park West line, similar to how the M/V debate went in early 2010, when there were calls for budgetary reductions, the orange A was created to quell the cries of the loss of the legendary A. The line would've run from 207 St to either Brighton Beach or Coney Island via Central Park West local and 6th Avenue express. The rollsign was on the 110Bs in anticipation of such a service. Of course, since none of that ever came to pass, it doesn't matter. Oddly enough, the bullet for a line that will never run is only on a train that will never run.

 

 

I didn't know he had a website. It's very informative, with even dates included.

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They tried 11 R160s along the (F) , and concluded that the resignalling and platform extensions (and switch relocation at certain places) needed would be too much of a bother.

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They tried 11 R160s along the (F) , and concluded that the resignalling and platform extensions (and switch relocation at certain places) needed would be too much of a bother.

 

 

Did they?

 

I was actually referring to some trials they did in the 1950s:

 

10-30-54, cut back to Broadway-Lafayette rush hours, 34th St other times when D is extended via Culver. (May have been done due to use of 11 car trains which are too long for Culver stations).

 

http://www.erictb.in...inehistory.html

 

Also, he has this article about some East River Crossing Studies. Look at all the possibilities that might have been done if the Manhattan Bridge was entirely closed, half-opened (North or South side) or if an extra connection from DeKalb was made to the Rutgers tunnel:

 

http://www.erictb.info/erc.html

 

There are some things that seem strange or bizarre:

- (QS) from Franklin Avenue to Brighton Beach

- (Q) from Coney Island to 179th Street

- (T) from Coney Island to 57th Street

- (D) and (B) from Coney Island to Ditmars Blvd

- (N) from Coney Island to 168th Street via 6th Avenue

- (M) from 95th Street to Metropolitan Avenue

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I think that's a typo and Eric meant 10-car trains, as the BMT originally had 8-car platforms and maybe they weren't extended along the Culver yet.

 

And yes, there was a trial of an 11-car (F) (OOS of course) a few years ago. There's info on this forum.

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The full story (some of it courtesy of Eric B's Line by Line History) is that asbestos was found on the 8th Avenue line in the fall of '89, forcing the shutdown of the A and a reroute of the orange Q up to 207 St from 57 St/6 Av. Since folks weren't feeling the love for the orange Q rolling up the Central Park West line, similar to how the M/V debate went in early 2010, when there were calls for budgetary reductions, the orange A was created to quell the cries of the loss of the legendary A. The line would've run from 207 St to either Brighton Beach or Coney Island via Central Park West local and 6th Avenue express. The rollsign was on the 110Bs in anticipation of such a service. Of course, since none of that ever came to pass, it doesn't matter. Oddly enough, the bullet for a line that will never run is only on a train that will never run.

 

It should be added here, that that asbestos reroute became the model for the proposed 1991 service cuts, which proposed the (Q) back to 207th. Then, they decided to make it an orange A (And this was also programmed onto the R44/46 side signs, but not the rollsign).

The bullet wasn't made for the asbestos reroute, it's just that that emergency route gave them the idea for a simplified scaleback of service. Also apart of that, there would be no more (C), no Concourse express, the (B) would go to 21st all times it ran, and the (A) would be the local to 168.

When they decided to keep the (A) as the express, but move it to 6th Ave. the (H) would have replaced it on 8th Ave. (But I think I remember the (H) being express to 34th which would be its north terminal instead, so I forget what was supposed to be the CPW local at this point).

 

As for the 11 cars, I know they couldn't run on the Culver, so that's why it said that this was probably why the (D) was extended at that point instead.

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Here's a photo I found that's from nycsubway.org of the the Q train using A train equipment during the time of the asbestos problem http://www.nycsubway...erl/show?127666

 

Nice find. Funny thing is, living in IRT country (the northeast Bronx), I never knew they ran the ( Q ) to 207th Street in 1989 (well, I was 11 years old at the time and my parents hated taking the subway in general, so I rarely rode the subway back then).

It should be added here, that that asbestos reroute became the model for the proposed 1991 service cuts, which proposed the (Q) back to 207th. Then, they decided to make it an orange A (And this was also programmed onto the R44/46 side signs, but not the rollsign).

The bullet wasn't made for the asbestos reroute, it's just that that emergency route gave them the idea for a simplified scaleback of service. Also apart of that, there would be no more (C), no Concourse express, the (B) would go to 21st all times it ran, and the (A) would be the local to 168.

When they decided to keep the (A) as the express, but move it to 6th Ave. the (H) would have replaced it on 8th Ave. (But I think I remember the (H) being express to 34th which would be its north terminal instead, so I forget what was supposed to be the CPW local at this point).

 

As for the 11 cars, I know they couldn't run on the Culver, so that's why it said that this was probably why the (D) was extended at that point instead.

 

Excellent account of proposed service changes from 22 years ago that fortunately didn't have to be implemented. Perhaps the (H) might have been the local to/from 168 if the ( A ) had been implemented. I doubt they would have made the (D) the CPW local, especially because it would not have been able to serve 163rd St-Amsterdam Ave or 155th-St Nicholas Ave. And I'm guessing the (H) would have been the sole Fulton Street local service with no express. The MTA would never have been able to implement these routings today. And who knows what they would have done with the ( A ) once the south side Manhattan Bridge tracks reopened?

Edited by T to Dyre Avenue

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Here's a photo I found that's from nycsubway.org of the the Q train using A train equipment during the time of the asbestos problem

img_127666.jpg

 

 

 

 

That (Q) looks nice. So it looks like it really ran to Inwood.

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Nice find. Funny thing is, living in IRT country (the northeast Bronx), I never knew they ran the ( Q ) to 207th Street in 1989 (well, I was 11 years old at the time and my parents hated taking the subway in general, so I rarely rode the subway back then).

 

Excellent account of proposed service changes from 22 years ago that fortunately didn't have to be implemented. Perhaps the (H) might have been the local to/from 168 if the ( A ) had been implemented. I doubt they would have made the (D) the CPW local, especially because it would not have been able to serve 163rd St-Amsterdam Ave or 155th-St Nicholas Ave. And I'm guessing the (H) would have been the sole Fulton Street local service with no express. The MTA would never have been able to implement these routings today. And who knows what they would have done with the ( A ) once the south side Manhattan Bridge tracks reopened?

I remember the (H) as the express terminating at 34th. They may have put the (C) back as the local in that plan.

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This is truly fascinating (I also didn't know about Eric B's site until now; added the link on my blog).

As this (Q) to 207 deal occurred before my 4th birthday, I don't remember it (though my first memories of the subway were from around '89 or '90 - a ride on the redbirds on the (6) comes to mind)...

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There weren't any maps, as it did not last long enough. (It's not like 9-11, which lasted for months, and the service was changed a bit a few time, so they kept updating the map with temporary ones).

Edited by Eric B
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Lance, was the whole "A to Brighton Beach" proposal the reason for the infamous "D to Far Rockaway" program on the 46s and 160s?

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Lance, was the whole "A to Brighton Beach" proposal the reason for the infamous "D to Far Rockaway" program on the 46s and 160s?

 

 

I know I am not Lance, but I think that those are two separate things. The (D) to Far Rockaway is just in case the crazy happens. I believe there is a program for the (B) to Lefferts.

 

I know this is pretty normal, but did you know the <5> has a program for Flatbush Av, Utica Av, and New Lots Av? And the (2) to New Lots Av? I think that it is pretty cool.

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I know I am not Lance, but I think that those are two separate things. The (D) to Far Rockaway is just in case the crazy happens. I believe there is a program for the (B) to Lefferts.

 

I know this is pretty normal, but did you know the <5> has a program for Flatbush Av, Utica Av, and New Lots Av? And the (2) to New Lots Av? I think that it is pretty cool.

 

 

They use that program every day... :/

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I know I am not Lance, but I think that those are two separate things. The (D) to Far Rockaway is just in case the crazy happens. I believe there is a program for the (B) to Lefferts.

 

I know this is pretty normal, but did you know the <5> has a program for Flatbush Av, Utica Av, and New Lots Av? And the (2) to New Lots Av? I think that it is pretty cool.

 

 

When I was younger and lived in Far Rockaway there was an instance where a (D) was sent to the rockaways due to mechanical issues with the (A)... it was an R68 signed as an (A)

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