R46 SIR retrofit Discussion

[RollOver]

And to also add another thing is that while any equipment are prone to breaking down, who's to say that the additional growth (if ordered) R211s can't sub for a breakdown if they wanted higher frequency...?

[CDTA]

I don't think the frequency's going to be increased at all. With the way the express service works, there isn't room for any more trains.

[AndrewJC]

I don't think the frequency's going to be increased at all. With the way the express service works, there isn't room for any more trains.

 

 

There also isn't need for any more trains.

[East New York]

As of today, 12/09/2012, R46 cars are still scheduled to be retrofitted for SIR service. Plans still call for it to be somewhere around February.

[R32 3838]

As of today, 12/09/2012, R46 cars are still scheduled to be retrofitted for SIR service. Plans still call for it to be somewhere around February.

 

 

if its in February then i wonder how this would play out with the line, unless they decide to put R32's on it or steal R46's from Jamaica, if they start to convert em by then then NYCT is gonna have a car shortage of 8 sets of trains

[Dan05979]

As of today, 12/09/2012, R46 cars are still scheduled to be retrofitted for SIR service. Plans still call for it to be somewhere around February.

 

 

I don't think so.

[jgood6195]

I don't think so.

 

Well, for the time being, unless you count the test train of R188s, no new order of trains are here at this time, which will lead me to believe that there will be a shortage of cars unless the MTA decides to send those displaced R44s back to NYCT (which I doubt given the issues that caused the NYCT units to retire early). So, I would guess that changes on times tables for some BMT/IND lines might be made. It certainly does not help that the H train is back in operation either.

[Grand Concourse]

With the Rockaways cut off, it's technically less trains overall running. And if it takes till June till the can get back to full service again, then that maybe enough to send some R46s to SI to retire some of the R44s. Of course the R179s should be on property first till they can move out any of the R46s.

[jgood6195]

With the Rockaways cut off, it's technically less trains overall running. And if it takes till June till the can get back to full service again, then that maybe enough to send some R46s to SI to retire some of the R44s. Of course the R179s should be on property first till they can move out any of the R46s.

 

When exactly are the first R179s going to arrive exactly? 2014?

[RollOver]

When exactly are the first R179s going to arrive exactly? 2014?

 

 

They'll be in service by 2015. We have two to four more years left with those remaining 222 R32s and 48 R42s until then.

[AndrewJC]

As of today, 12/09/2012, R46 cars are still scheduled to be retrofitted for SIR service. Plans still call for it to be somewhere around February.

 

 

As of a staff summary dated December 3, 2012: "The current fleet is comprised of 63 cars now forty years old, which is considered to be the full useful life of these vehicles. It is currently estimated that the replacement of this fleet won’t occur until around 2020. In order to maintain this fleet in a state of good repair to be able to operate safely and reliably, it will be necessary for this fleet to undergo a full maintenance program to be performed mostly at MTA New York City Transit’s subway’s facilities. This program requires three years (2014-2016) of maintenance with an estimated cost of $12.900 million ($4.300 million and 21 cars per year)."

 

http://www.mta.info/...n_Materials.pdf

[Vistausss]

@Art: And you're so naive to not think will change their minds in short time? Or haven't you learned from the past?

 

 

All in all, all I got to say is: let's stop arguing and we'll see around February who's right and who's not.

[RollOver]

@Art: And you're so naive to not think will change their minds in short time? Or haven't you learned from the past?

 

 

Chill dude...Art Vandelay never even said anything in this thread after post #142.

[Far Rock Depot]

The SIR, if needed or planned, can indeed run two different fleets. Sure it may incur a slightly higher maintenance cost for two sets of parts. but agencies with small fleets have ran two different kinds before. and if the MTA chooses to, we can whine and moan all we want till we're MTA blue in the face. If the plan still calls for 46s for now untill the 211s come in, so be it.

 

And IIRC, someone mentioned the possibility of the 8 sets of 179s for SIR to run with those 46s, note one fact-a pilot set must be tested with the modifications on SIR.

[Grand Concourse]

Unless they will be spares, having 60' cars there would be a reduction of service unless you mean they'd be the 5 car sets (300' replacing 300')... Now if the R211 is indeed 75' cars, then I can see them there.

[Vistausss]

Chill dude...Art Vandelay never even said anything in this thread after post #142.

 

 

My bad. I meant to mention AndrewJC.

 

My sincere apologies to Art.

[jgood6195]

Unless they will be spares, having 60' cars there would be a reduction of service unless you mean they'd be the 5 car sets (300' replacing 300')... Now if the R211 is indeed 75' cars, then I can see them there.

 

Are they thinking of making 75ft?

[AndrewJC]

@Art: And you're so naive to not think will change their minds in short time? Or haven't you learned from the past?

 

 

If 64 R46's are transferred to Staten Island, then something else will have to replace those 64 R46's on the subway. What cars will those be? The R179 order includes only 40 cars in 5 car sets and also has to cover the opening of SAS.

 

When the current Capital Plan was being developed, a chunk of money was designated for R46 conversions to SIR. Whether that was the true plan back then or if it was merely a placeholder, I do not know, but with the R179 order configured as it is configured, it is obvious that it is now only a placeholder. It will remain a placeholder until something takes its place, since the capital dollars assigned to it have to be assigned to something.

 

All in all, all I got to say is: let's stop arguing and we'll see around February who's right and who's not.

 

 

If by the time March rolls along even one R46 has undergone any SIR conversion work whatsoever, I will eat my hat.

 

The SIR, if needed or planned, can indeed run two different fleets. Sure it may incur a slightly higher maintenance cost for two sets of parts. but agencies with small fleets have ran two different kinds before. and if the MTA chooses to, we can whine and moan all we want till we're MTA blue in the face. If the plan still calls for 46s for now untill the 211s come in, so be it.

 

 

But why would it be needed?

 

And IIRC, someone mentioned the possibility of the 8 sets of 179s for SIR to run with those 46s, note one fact-a pilot set must be tested with the modifications on SIR.

 

 

If the R179's were going to run on SIR from the outset, they would have been ordered with the SIR cab signaling system. They weren't.

 

Cars are going to be needed to open SAS. Where do you think those cars are going to come from?

[Art Vandelay]

I take no offense at being confused for the poster above.

[AndrewJC]

I take no offense at being confused for the poster above.

 

 

Nor do I take offense for being the subject of confusion.

[Far Rock Depot]

 

 

But why would it be needed?

 

 

 

If the R179's were going to run on SIR from the outset, they would have been ordered with the SIR cab signaling system. They weren't.

 

Cars are going to be needed to open SAS. Where do you think those cars are going to come from?

 

they werent, But they could always change their mind which is always the battle cry here. LOL

 

And the "where are the cars going to come from for SAS" argument has been pointed out many times. and always, the answer is:

Its only three stops opening, four total if you include the expansion of 63rd/Lex. And seeing how Qs run to astoria peak and midday-which is 5 stops more than the Q route running on SAS-i do believe that question is null and void. Why does that question always come up? Thats beating a dead horse.

[AndrewJC]

they werent, But they could always change their mind which is always the battle cry here. LOL

 

 

Actually, in this case, they can't change their mind. The R179 order has been placed.

 

And the "where are the cars going to come from for SAS" argument has been pointed out many times. and always, the answer is:

Its only three stops opening, four total if you include the expansion of 63rd/Lex. And seeing how Qs run to astoria peak and midday-which is 5 stops more than the Q route running on SAS-i do believe that question is null and void. Why does that question always come up? Thats beating a dead horse.

 

 

During rush hours, any Q train diverted from Astoria to SAS will need to be replaced by a new train going to Astoria. The Astoria line is currently quite crowded at 15 tph, and cutting service below 15 tph is not an option. There are several ways to replace those Astoria trains, but the cheapest and least car-intensive one is a restored W. That's ten additional trains right there.

[Far Rock Depot]

MTA logistics is well known for wanting crowded trains. A crowded train pays for that run. Where were those replacement trains when the W was eliminated for service south of Canal? Thats lower manhattan. The business district. They can and-dont be surprised if they do-eliminate those said ten trains. That is the cheapest and least car-insensive option. Saying cutting service isnt an option may show one is not learning from MTA history.

 

That may be two hats for dinner? Lol

[RollOver]

I like for the to return. Astoria already has trains running every three to five minutes at rush hour, midday and evening and ten minutes on weekends before those 2010 service cuts and now. Though I'm still wondering in my head if five to ten minutes is a pretty wide range for the entire services and that if the should continue as a 34-Canal local...

[RollOver]

@FRD

 

You're right because it saves money.

 

@AndrewJC

 

Remember, the is quite crowded in Manhattan and Brooklyn too like the is. What's wrong with just keeping those trains crowded (not full)? As long as they're crowded, that's not bad. You said that cutting the current rush hour/midday/evening three to five minute headway for the BMT Astoria Line isn't an option. But the question is weather the alone will be full or not if it runs every five or six to eight or ten minutes like I suggested. If the proves that its crowded and not packed, I can't suddenly see that as an issue. I definitely do not mind seeing the 's decision into restoring the anymore though.