R46 SIR retrofit Discussion

[Grand Concourse]

The 's don't lay up at JYD, at the Queens End they lay up between south of 169th to Parsons Blvd on the southbound track, if they lay up at JYD, they might accidently send an 8 car R160A to the or so thats why they lay em up where i just mentioned

 

Then what about the R160s in JYD that I see from the Van Wyck? Just trains randomly signed up as 's?

[RollOver]

By the way, you guys should discuss this / R179 thing at the R179 thread. This discussion has nothing to do with this thread.

[Grand Concourse]

It doesn't matter since this thread should've been merged or locked as there's an existing thread in the SI forum. And if there are more 5-car orders, then the could displace some of their R46s over to the . So there, now it's back on topic.

[Far Rock Depot]

By the way, you guys should discuss this / R179 thing at the R179 thread. This discussion has nothing to do with this thread.

 

Overall you're right.

But if you think about it, the two will always become intertwined. The R46 retrofit wouldn't have been planned if some 179s were still slated for SIR. And time lines for both seem to be planned for simultaneously. When they'll send 46s depends on when 179s start arriving.

[R32 3838]

The R143's are staying on the , its not offical if the is getting the R179's ( has said that they are for the , but of course they change their minds, to Me they will go to the , the needs them alot more than the , the R46's can go to the ) out of all of the BS, the r46's are still going to SI, that would leave us 80 cars short, @ GC most of the R160A-1's from the are layed up between 169 and Parsons, i don't see any of them at van wyck and i pass there everyday

[Grand Concourse]

Alright, so just trains randomly signed as 's then.

[RollOver]

Wait a minute, I thought all but 40 out of 300 R179s will be in 4-car sets according to AndrewJC and Art Vandelay. How are any lines that use full-length trains will use the R179s, despite the 40 of them in 5-car sets? I know it wouldn't be the nor the ...Is there anywhere else to put them other than balance it? How are full-length IND/BMT trains going to use 4-car sets of R179s aside from the train and the BMT Eastern Divsion?

[Grand Concourse]

I find it hard to blieve there would be that few 5-car sets in the order. You'd need at least 8 10-car trains to replace the eventual loss of R46s heading for SI to replace the R44 fleet. [Also assuming it's going to be a total of 64 cars]. I think there's been way too many back and forth speculation over how many will be 4 or 5 car trains. It's way too early to say what the final will be.

 

*IF you see R46s on the or 10-car R32s, then you'll get your answer. And if not, then it's the other answer.

[RollOver]

Yeah but would 220 R179s be enough to replace the 222 R32s? And would 48 R179s be enough to replace the 48 R42s?

[Grand Concourse]

Newer trains ideally don't need as many spare cars, so I don't see it as a problem that there would be fewer cars total replacing the entire R32/42 fleet. But as said before, the SAS is going to open and the SIRT will need some R46s, so I don't see all the R32s being replaced just yet, unless they intend on having a very small amount of spare trains around.

 

*just my speculation.

[Art Vandelay]

Even with the C staying 8 cars long there aren't enough cars for both SAS to open and for R46s to move to SI. As SAS will open, I'd have to say that the R46s will not go to SI.

[S79 Select bus servi]

How do you get those displays like A rockaway local??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

[via White Plains Road]

How do you get those displays like A rockaway local??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

 

http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/topic/18719-electronic-and-static-subway-related-signs-request-thread/

That should answer your question

[RollOver]

How do you get those displays like A rockaway local??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

 

:lol: No need to spam the question marks like that LOL!

 

JamaicaQnzFreak/via White Plains Road already answered you. Thanks.

[Vistausss]

@AndrewJC: Where do you base your information on? Because we have 2 credible sources here: East New York and a train operator Eric B. I'll believe them wholeheartedly instead of some 'member' like you throwing around information.

[Art Vandelay]

You can believe what you want to, but the basic numbers are pretty clear. There are only enough cars on order to do two of the following four things-

1. Replace all R32/R42(requires 270),

2. Displace R46s to Staten Island(requires 80),

3. Open Second Avenue Subway (requires 70-80 by my estimates),

4. extend the C to full length (requires 40)

 

1 and 3 are certainly happening. That is 340-350 new cars required. 300 are on order. Grand Concourse's point that new cars will need fewer spares is valid, but you can see those savings are ALREADY USED. There is no ability to do 2 or 4 without more cars, and the options to get more cars have been cancelled.

[R32 3838]

R46's are going to SI, those R44's have to be replaced

 

we will be short 80 cars

 

I already know whats gonna happen, its obvious

 

but the R46's 6170-6258 will infact go to Staten Island to replace the R44's overthere, its stupid but oh well

 

 

thats why its always good to keep extra cars you know

[Art Vandelay]

The R44s on Staten Island just got a heavy overhaul. They are not going to be replaced anytime soon. The option order of R179s intended to displace the R46s to Staten Island was cancelled.

[R32 3838]

dude those R44's are still rotting even after the overhaul, the TA even said that those cars are currently rotting, their Frames are rotting, they may look good outside but their inner frames are in bad shape and they are starting to show their age, they need to be replaced, and the MTA made it clear that the R46's will be retrofitted for SIRT service by 2014-15 they retrofit is set to be awarded in 2013

[Art Vandelay]

I've looked at them inside and out, under and over, and while they might not be perfect, they will be able to last the 4 years between when they would be replaced if they were to be replaced by R179s displacing R46s to SI, and when they will be replaced by R211 era cars.

[Art Vandelay]

But more importantly- There just aren't the cars to do so without cutting service.

[RollOver]

The current plan still calls for R46s but IMO that will change once the orders the R211s in 2015 when the R46s turn 40 years old. And I agree with Andrew and Art that those 64 R46s will be retired after a few years in SIR service. And other cars hopping over to SIR after retrofitment makes no sense. I recently have thought that the R211s should've been ordered first since the R46s have the lowest MDBF and were once lemons like the R68/68As but continuing to have problems due to the 's longest route and 24/7 service to/from Far Rockaway-Mott Avenue.

 

But I guess the R32s really need to go first since they're the oldest and break down way too frequently. Anyway, both trains should go starting in 2015 IMO. NYCS R44s should have been pulled with the R160 order and the should've also gotten them as well. The and and even the Rockaway Park Shuttle would have been 100% 60 footers had that happen.

[Brighton Express]

How do you get those displays like A rockaway local??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

 

 

Not to throw us off topic or anything, but there is a bus one as well, not sure what kind of person you are.

 

http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/topic/13822-animated-luminator-bus-signs/

 

 

The current plan still calls for R46s but IMO that will change once the orders the R211s in 2015 when the R46s turn 40 years old. And I agree with Andrew and Art that those 64 R46s will be retired after a few years in SIR service. And other cars hopping over to SIR after retrofitment makes no sense. I recently have thought that the R211s should've been ordered first since the R46s have the lowest MDBF and were once lemons like the R68/68As but continuing to have problems due to the 's longest route and 24/7 service to/from Far Rockaway-Mott Avenue.

 

But I guess the R32s really need to go first since they're the oldest and break down way too frequently. Anyway, both trains should go starting in 2015 IMO. NYCS R44s should have been pulled with the R160 order and the should've also gotten them as well. The and and even the Rockaway Park Shuttle would have been 100% 60 footers had that happen.

 

 

I honestly don't know why they threw the R44s out. The R38s got a minor overhaul, significantly less than the R32s, so that makes sense. I think the R44s could have lasted a couple more years.

[Art Vandelay]

The R38 overhaul was not any lighter than that of the R32.

[Far Rock Depot]

Your forgetting also that SAS expansion for the opening won't need THAT many sets. It's technically a 4 stop extention of the Q. And your numbers are based on all C trains becoming 179s.