The Schoolcar Experience

[dp142]

Hello to all, 

 

Though this a School car / Train Operator (RTO)  thread I wanted to touch on something relevant from a M.O.W. ( Maintenance of Way) point of view.

 

I do not know what you learn regarding Flagging on the road other then what the colors of the flags (lights in the hole) may mean and what the arrangement such as 2 Yellows compared to 3 yellows mean.

 

In school and on paper it's pretty much simple and easy to understand eg: If you see 2 yellows expect to see 2 more yellows 300' feet away then a Flagman with a red Flag and portable train stop (Tripper)  no less then 150' away from a work gang along with a Green flag 700' away from the work area when leaving.

 

On the tracks, especially straight track, it is pretty simple and by the book along with adjacent flagging (3 Yellows and a green) on the next track. Even in special work like switches or yards or hard curves you can see fairly well if anyone is on the track during the day.

 

This is more about working nights and Flagging in the hole (tunnels). Many a  time it is impossible to set the lights up the way the rule book prescribes due to the contour of the track, green point tube "G" for example,  the amount of lights available and the amount of men available to flag in the event spotters or auxiliary flagmen are needed. Make no mistake- the way RTO wants those trains moving at all times M.O.W. wants work done regardless of the situation. Do not go counting on the union to help you in all situations.

 

"Near miss" is the new favorite term of the T.A. and they like to apply it to anything that there is no rule or policy for or when employees allow them too. What it really means is that you and the other person or parties involved, regardless of who calls it in, now gets write a G2nas well as have one written against you, go down to give a urine sample and open themselves up to scrutiny and possible charges of rule violations. There are a set rules that regardless of what you have done you violated. Supt's are issued a card with them listed in M.O.W.

They have to do with general knowledge and familiarity of the rules and operating policies. Nothing specific.  I'm sure other dept's get them.

 

If you come across flagging that does not seem proper to you or you feel is not correct stop near the work site after obeying the flagman's signal and speak to the Supervisor. They do not want any problems with a TSS  and will take care of your concerns. It works both ways. Should you stop to close to the flagman, even run his red which has happened, the supervisor along with the track gang is not looking to bang you in, call command, then have his flagging evaluated, have the work gang write G2's and everyone go for a urine sample if it was a honest mistake. Unless you came full speed without blowing your horn thru them. Speak to them first!

Especially if this is your normal route. You will see the same work gangs and they will see you nightly.

 

Should you encounter persons on the track without any flagging performing work  then by all means call it in! That's bad for everyone! However, a crew (supposed to be 2 usually 1 in reality) walking along the track, feel free to stop and ask for ID and what they are up too if your unsure. They may get offended but hey "If you see something say something."

I say this because I am not required to have flagging, even a flasher, if I'm walking to a Circuit Breaker House in the hole to remove or restore a G.O. (general Order)

 

I have been a Trackman, a Shop Steward, now a Power Distribution Maintainer (3rd rail) and Power Supervisor until I gave it back in my 22 years here. The T.A. likes to keep the different departments fighting against each other. Even in M.O.W. all it does it keep everyone paranoid which is unsafe.

 

Feel free to ask me anything you may like.

Edited June 10, 2013 by dp142

[mediccjh]

Excellent post, dp. One of the things I noticed is that I get weird looks when I blast every 75-120' for adjacent tracking, or when I blast when I see a lamp bank dangling, and there's no one around. 

[dagenius69]

Excellent post, dp. One of the things I noticed is that I get weird looks when I blast every 75-120' for adjacent tracking, or when I blast when I see a lamp bank dangling, and there's no one around. 

i get the same looks but i could care less.

 

Sent from my LG-MS770 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

 

[dp142]

As for the lone dangling bank- if there is work about to be performed the supervisor may go out and set it up so the workers know where the job site is in order to request a drop off. It could also be for the Flagman so he knows the location where the supervisor wants him.

 

Also, we may set one up as a back feed indicator for the 3rd rail, power on indicator after a G.O. or waiting to see it go off as an indication of power being removed.

 

Sometimes, they are just left out there, lol.

[Snowblock]

I've been running into a lot of school car classes the last couple days! There was a T/O class at 168's crew room Sunday night, and then a R-46 racing me up 6th Ave on Monday night, and I also ran into the A-B transfer C/R class at Coney Island!

[25andout]

Does anyone know if there is an update route guide out there (b division). The one that school car gives you is 5 years old, is missing punch boxes on routes, still has the M going to bay parkway etc... I will take good notes while posting but it would be nice to have something that is done already.

[beneka]

So ive been out of schoolcar for almost 3 months now and two different dispatchers have offered me students!! I told them both i was only a few months out of schoolcar and one told me if i feel confident enough in my operation that he would give me the student. I feel very confident in my operation, but i dont feel im at the level where i should be taking students when im just 2 months out! Curious, would anyone here thats still on probation have taken the student???

[LexAveExp5]

not on probation

[dagenius69]

So ive been out of schoolcar for almost 3 months now and two different dispatchers have offered me students!! I told them both i was only a few months out of schoolcar and one told me if i feel confident enough in my operation that he would give me the student. I feel very confident in my operation, but i dont feel im at the level where i should be taking students when im just 2 months out! Curious, would anyone here thats still on probation have taken the student???

i would have taken them. I was offered a student 2 weeks out. At that point i was like umm i don't think so. But now, hey why not.

 

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[beneka]

i would have taken them. I was offered a student 2 weeks out. At that point i was like umm i don't think so. But now, hey why not.Sent from my LG-MS770 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

I was thinking the same thing, like ive been on that line quite a few times already so why not....but then i thought what if something goes wrong. I didnt wanna take that chance!

[RTOMan]

Does anyone know if there is an update route guide out there (b division). The one that school car gives you is 5 years old, is missing punch boxes on routes, still has the M going to bay parkway etc... I will take good notes while posting but it would be nice to have something that is done already.

 

In your travels in Schoolcar get the Route Guides they have in the Various Terminals for Each Line... Just *Ask*

 

I do know that Met has *Updated M line cards seen them myself*

Edited June 14, 2013 by RTOMan

[Anonymous operator]

I was thinking the same thing, like ive been on that line quite a few times already so why not....but then i thought what if something goes wrong. I didnt wanna take that chance!

I to have been out of Schoolcar almost 3 months now. No incidents and I've been told by all the TSS and conductors that I've worked with that my operation is outstanding.

 

That being said no way I would take a student while on probation. Now the first say I'm off probation ill take all students that come my way. I hated when I was road posting and saw some of these guys act as if we just called their mother something when they were asked if they wanted a student.

 

And the most idiotic statement of all "you're from the streets". Yeah and so are you. Nobody was born in TA. At some point in time we all came from the streets. The only difference is that some of us were lucky enough to come off the streets and straight to T/O.

 

Ill never forget we're I came from and will take all students. As soon as I'm off probation.

[RTOPRO]

The problem with taking students is the myth of who takes the charge when something goes wrong.

 

If something goes wrong and you're concern is you the T/O probation or not will take the hit to your record then you're turning down students for the wrong reason because it doesn't work that way.

 

- Student accidentally dumps - Charged to school car

- Student overruns station - Charged to school car

- Student hits signal - Charged to school car

 

Here's where it really matters because it's something a T/O can control

 

- Student takes wrong line up - Charged to T/O

 

I agree because there's no excuse for it. You're taking a student to help break someone in, not take a break. You should be watching what a student is punching and what line ups are given at home signals as well as reading the iron.

 

If you don't want to take a student because you don't want to be bothered writing a G2 if something goes wrong. OK I give you that. Being able to go home after clearing is important to a lot of people. But if you don't have the time to commit afterwards then it's probably best to avoid taking a student anyway.

[4P3607]

Who did schoolcar with an R68 on QBL today out of CI? Just wondering since I saw it at 36 St on QBL.

[dagenius69]

i would have taken them. I was offered a student 2 weeks out. At that point i was like umm i don't think so. But now, hey why not.Sent from my LG-MS770 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

I was thinking the same thing, like ive been on that line quite a few times already so why not....but then i thought what if something goes wrong. I didnt wanna take that chance!

if something goes wrong, the dispatcher knew you were on probation and gave you the student anyway. Its not like you lied to get the student. Besides like rtopro said, its charged to school car.

 

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[mediccjh]

So ive been out of schoolcar for almost 3 months now and two different dispatchers have offered me students!! I told them both i was only a few months out of schoolcar and one told me if i feel confident enough in my operation that he would give me the student. I feel very confident in my operation, but i dont feel im at the level where i should be taking students when im just 2 months out! Curious, would anyone here thats still on probation have taken the student???

 

Hell no. Wait until you're off probation, for sure. As for me, I'm probably going to wait until I hit my 2 year mark. 

 

I start OPTO training on Monday. Crew Office just called me.

[Anonymous operator]

The problem with taking students is the myth of who takes the charge when something goes wrong.

 

If something goes wrong and you're concern is you the T/O probation or not will take the hit to your record then you're turning down students for the wrong reason because it doesn't work that way.

 

- Student accidentally dumps - Charged to school car

- Student overruns station - Charged to school car

- Student hits signal - Charged to school car

 

Here's where it really matters because it's something a T/O can control

 

- Student takes wrong line up - Charged to T/O

 

I agree because there's no excuse for it. You're taking a student to help break someone in, not take a break. You should be watching what a student is punching and what line ups are given at home signals as well as reading the iron.

 

If you don't want to take a student because you don't want to be bothered writing a G2 if something goes wrong. OK I give you that. Being able to go home after clearing is important to a lot of people. But if you don't have the time to commit afterwards then it's probably best to avoid taking a student anyway.

Agree completely with your post. The "myth" as you say is the sticking point. No where in writing does it say that the trainer will not be held accountable. There were 2 reasons that the T/O's didn't want to take students 5% of the times they just didn't want to deal with it. The other 95% of the times was because there were a bunch of times were something happened and they wanted to hold the trainer accountable.

 

Many times trainers even apologized and told me don't take it personal but the 2 hours that they get paid weren't worth the risk of what could happen if something happened during the training. If there's something in writing stating that we won't be held accountable then ill take students as soon as the opportunity arises again. But if not ill wait to be off probation. Nothing personal. Just looking to make probation right now.

[beneka]

Hell no. Wait until you're off probation, for sure. As for me, I'm probably going to wait until I hit my 2 year mark.

 

I start OPTO training on Monday. Crew Office just called me.

Nice!!! Funny, i was just thinking about opto. How do you get to do OPTO training?? I would like to be opto qualified...gives me a little more flexibility!

[RTOMan]

Nice!!! Funny, i was just thinking about opto. How do you get to do OPTO training?? I would like to be opto qualified...gives me a little more flexibility!

 

Call the Crew Office and *ask*!

[Anonymous operator]

Call the Crew Office and *ask*!

Very helpful and informative as usual

[RTOMan]

Very helpful and informative as usual

 

Anytime! 

[kevinetics]

The R-62 is now my concubine...

[dp142]

With all the rain we've had lately it came to mind that although I don't know how training goes in RTO, wether you spend much time in the yards or on the road, we can all learn from each other.

 

In time you'll all be stepping on the 3 rd rail protection boards while climbing on or off your trains. Some boards are fiber glass some are wood.

 

The fiber glass ones are like ice when wet from rain our any source of water. The woods ones in the summer secrete creosote which is also very slippery. Make sure your footing is secure when stepping onto one. Also, try not to step to close to the metal bracket holding the boards up. In the yards and in all wet areas those brackets are grounded out meaning you could get a good shock off one if your physically touching one for some reason and brush the contact (3rd) rail. Eg: you drop something before climbing up onto your train and place your hand on one while picking something up.

[LexAveExp5]

In time you'll all be stepping on the 3 rd rail protection boards while climbing on or off your trains. 

LOL i hope not! I sure won't!

[RTOMan]

In time you'll all be stepping on the 3 rd rail protection boards while climbing on or off your trains. Some boards are fiber glass some are wood.

 

 

 

Just like 7-Up never have never will! 6'4 frame and long legs helps....