NICE Summer Beach Service: N88 and Return of the N87

[PinePower]

Where in Carle Place did the B/O usually end his trip? Technically, the only part of the route within Carle Place is the portion along Glen Cove Road. I don't think there would realistically be anybody on that small stretch of Glen Cove Road heading to the mall. (Of course, anything's possible)

 

I'd see them do it on Jericho Turnpike by Jay Court. They drop off the last pax usually on Jericho and then they'd go OOS.

[checkmatechamp13]

I have nothing else to say other than service shouldn't be based on assumption.

 

For example you wouldn't have liked it had the operators on the S89 just jumped route 440 under the assumption that there wouldn't be many passengers on the stretch of Morningstar Road.

 

That's a bad comparison.

 

For starters, there's a difference between "not many" and "nobody at all". "Not many" still means that somebody's guaranteed to be inconvenienced. "Nobody at all" means that there's a good chance that nobody's being inconvenienced.

 

Second of all, the stops at Walker Street & Forest Avenue are both fairly big stops. You can easily get a good 5-10 people or more if you're going in the height of rush hour (in either direction, sometimes more, especially at Forest going southbound). So some B/O bypassing those stops isn't operating off some assumption. They just plain don't give a damn about the passengers.

 

A better example would probably be those S46 short-turns that are supposed to go all the way to Grandview & Forest, but instead, they go out of service at Brabant Street & Grandview Avenue and go right back to the depot? Why? Because nobody's going to be going from those bypassed stops over to Forest Avenue, so they might as well go back t the depot quicker. Of course, if somebody's going to Forest Avenue who's already on the bus, then they'll go the full route. 

 

Somebody told me about B44s that end early by Avenue Z, instead of going all the way to Knapp Street. Why? Because if everybody's gotten off (and nobody's transferring from the B36 at that stop), then there's no point in continuing further. 

 

Of course, there's cases where they shouldn't take chances. For instance, all S66s should stop at SCCC, and all N20s should stop at CW Post. Why? Because the inconvenience to the people waiting there is too great. With the N22A, if there's the off-chance that somebody wanted to go to the mall (which is still unlikely), they could either wait for the N27, or make their way down to the N22, 24, etc. With somebody going from CW Post, you're forcing them to wait another hour for the next bus.

 

I'd see them do it on Jericho Turnpike by Jay Court. They drop off the last pax usually on Jericho and then they'd go OOS.

 

And in your times on the N22A (or N27 for that matter), how often have you seen anybody get on during that portion on Glen Cove Road, and get off at the mall?

[Turbo19]

That's a bad comparison.

 

For starters, there's a difference between "not many" and "nobody at all". "Not many" still means that somebody's guaranteed to be inconvenienced. "Nobody at all" means that there's a good chance that nobody's being inconvenienced.

 

Second of all, the stops at Walker Street & Forest Avenue are both fairly big stops. You can easily get a good 5-10 people or more if you're going in the height of rush hour (in either direction, sometimes more, especially at Forest going southbound). So some B/O bypassing those stops isn't operating off some assumption. They just plain don't give a damn about the passengers.

 

A better example would probably be those S46 short-turns that are supposed to go all the way to Grandview & Forest, but instead, they go out of service at Brabant Street & Grandview Avenue and go right back to the depot? Why? Because nobody's going to be going from those bypassed stops over to Forest Avenue, so they might as well go back t the depot quicker. Of course, if somebody's going to Forest Avenue who's already on the bus, then they'll go the full route. 

 

Somebody told me about B44s that end early by Avenue Z, instead of going all the way to Knapp Street. Why? Because if everybody's gotten off (and nobody's transferring from the B36 at that stop), then there's no point in continuing further. 

 

Of course, there's cases where they shouldn't take chances. For instance, all S66s should stop at SCCC, and all N20s should stop at CW Post. Why? Because the inconvenience to the people waiting there is too great. With the N22A, if there's the off-chance that somebody wanted to go to the mall (which is still unlikely), they could either wait for the N27, or make their way down to the N22, 24, etc. With somebody going from CW Post, you're forcing them to wait another hour for the next bus.

 

 

And in your times on the N22A (or N27 for that matter), how often have you seen anybody get on during that portion on Glen Cove Road, and get off at the mall?

 

That's a bad comparison.

 

For starters, there's a difference between "not many" and "nobody at all". "Not many" still means that somebody's guaranteed to be inconvenienced. "Nobody at all" means that there's a good chance that nobody's being inconvenienced.

 

Second of all, the stops at Walker Street & Forest Avenue are both fairly big stops. You can easily get a good 5-10 people or more if you're going in the height of rush hour (in either direction, sometimes more, especially at Forest going southbound). So some B/O bypassing those stops isn't operating off some assumption. They just plain don't give a damn about the passengers.

 

A better example would probably be those S46 short-turns that are supposed to go all the way to Grandview & Forest, but instead, they go out of service at Brabant Street & Grandview Avenue and go right back to the depot? Why? Because nobody's going to be going from those bypassed stops over to Forest Avenue, so they might as well go back t the depot quicker. Of course, if somebody's going to Forest Avenue who's already on the bus, then they'll go the full route. 

 

Somebody told me about B44s that end early by Avenue Z, instead of going all the way to Knapp Street. Why? Because if everybody's gotten off (and nobody's transferring from the B36 at that stop), then there's no point in continuing further. 

 

Of course, there's cases where they shouldn't take chances. For instance, all S66s should stop at SCCC, and all N20s should stop at CW Post. Why? Because the inconvenience to the people waiting there is too great. With the N22A, if there's the off-chance that somebody wanted to go to the mall (which is still unlikely), they could either wait for the N27, or make their way down to the N22, 24, etc. With somebody going from CW Post, you're forcing them to wait another hour for the next bus.

 

 

And in your times on the N22A (or N27 for that matter), how often have you seen anybody get on during that portion on Glen Cove Road, and get off at the mall?

Just used that example to show it's f**ked up when you're on the receiving end of things.

[checkmatechamp13]

Just used that example to show it's f**ked up when you're on the receiving end of things.

 

As if I don't have examples of my own.  For instance, those S44 trippers that bypassed me and a bunch of other students, and then that S92 that bypassed the CSI loop and then on top of that didn't wait when I shouted from across the street. (That's what really got to me. I wouldn't have minded running across the street if he had waited). And the S46 B/O that slammed the door in my face (actually, on my hand) when he saw I was running from an S89, even though the light was red. (Though I squeezed my way onto that bus.  ) And that's off the top of my head.

 

The difference is that those drivers took the easy way out when it was 100% obvious that they shouldn't have. (Because they were inconveniencing or potentially inconveniencing a passenger right in front of them). 

[Turbo19]

As if I don't have examples of my own.  For instance, those S44 trippers that bypassed me and a bunch of other students, and then that S92 that bypassed the CSI loop and then on top of that didn't wait when I shouted from across the street. (That's what really got to me. I wouldn't have minded running across the street if he had waited). And the S46 B/O that slammed the door in my face (actually, on my hand) when he saw I was running from an S89, even though the light was red. (Though I squeezed my way onto that bus.  ) And that's off the top of my head.

 

The difference is that those drivers took the easy way out when it was 100% obvious that they shouldn't have. (Because they were inconveniencing or potentially inconveniencing a passenger right in front of them). 

LOL, that's extremely worse. Sigh, I guess you can't always strive for perfection.

[Vistausss]

Those drivers need to be taught a lesson then. They serve people so unless their SRO they shouldn't skip any stops.

[checkmatechamp13]

Those drivers need to be taught a lesson then. They serve people so unless their SRO they shouldn't skip any stops.

 

Please don't tell me that you're one of those people who equates SRO with being "packed". 

[User]

Those drivers need to be taught a lesson then. They serve people so unless their SRO they shouldn't skip any stops.

 

Please don't tell me that you're one of those people who equates SRO with being "packed". 

How I use the terms:

 

SRO - Standing room only (but there is space left for people to board), so bus driver will stop to pick up.

Packed/Full - No space left, bus is only dropping off, not stopping to only pick up (meaning only if a stop is requested).

[Vistausss]

Please don't tell me that you're one of those people who equates SRO with being "packed". 

 

No, but there are certain guidelines for loading.

 

I've been on enough packed buses to know that it's not a pleasure at all if you want to leave the bus at your bus stop. In many cases I wasn't even able to make it to the doors on time because no one had space left to step aside for me (and I've seen that with other people too). I'm not saying no one should stand on the bus but there are limits. If one can still step aside for others to leave the bus then that's fine. But if there's no room for that than it's too crowded to make it not worth it to load the bus with even more people IMHO unless it's a through route (but IIRC NICE doesn't have any through routes except partly in Queens) or a limited (like the n22l for example).

[FamousNYLover]

I forgot who was asking the keychain? At meeting, they give me one more keychain.

[RtrainBlues]

It's bizarre that they are running empty N87 buses to Wantagh/Hicksville when only a handful of people are on each bus on a busy summer weekend, whereas the N88 buses to Freeport are so crowded I often fear being left behind since they are packed to the gills.  If they insist on having N87 buses, they should first be detoured to Freeport to handle the massive crowds going there.

[FamousNYLover]

No one knows yet. My friend at LIRR ticket office at Hicksville Station, train riders don't know n87 bus has return.

[User]

It's bizarre that they are running empty N87 buses to Wantagh/Hicksville when only a handful of people are on each bus on a busy summer weekend, whereas the N88 buses to Freeport are so crowded I often fear being left behind since they are packed to the gills. If they insist on having N87 buses, they should first be detoured to Freeport to handle the massive crowds going there.

Or they could have just extended the n73/74 to Jones Beach without adding extra buses and have more ridership on those routes.

[PinePower]

It would help if the LIRR Jones Beach ticket could be honored on the n87, the stations are in the same zones. It's a perfect example of how hard it is to get back ridership on a route that was eliminated. The n88 has always been hell, which is why I stopped going to Jones Beach when the n87 was discontinued. But the n87 used to be crowded as well. It will take time to get those riders back. NICE has put up posters in alot of the libraries about the n87. I think in times of overcrowding on the n88 the n87 should honor those LIRR Jones Beach passes. I'd rather not have to go to Freeport. OMG it is such a ghetto bus, you've seen Brett's video...

[Burrstone]

It's bizarre that they are running empty N87 buses to Wantagh/Hicksville when only a handful of people are on each bus on a busy summer weekend, whereas the N88 buses to Freeport are so crowded I often fear being left behind since they are packed to the gills.  If they insist on having N87 buses, they should first be detoured to Freeport to handle the massive crowds going there.

 

IMO it would be a horrible idea to detour the n87 to Freeport, you'd be taking the n87 WAY out of the way.  The n88 is so crowded because of the LIRR deal, if the LIRR deal was extended to the n87 via Wantgh RR or Hicksville RR the situation would even itself out.

 

I've also seen passengers on the n19 get on a westbound bus before obviously going to the beach.  The clever device doesn't announce a transfer to n87  anywhere in going through Wantagh.  The clever deivce should announce "transfer n87, jones beach bus."  If the clever device cannot be programmed for that the driver should pull over and announce "transfer here for n87, jones beach" so people know.  A sign on the bus wouldn't hurt either notifying people they can transfer to the n87 to jones beach at (whatever stop).

[Orion VII 4 Life]

They've put posters up? Any cool designs? Could you take a pic?

 

 

It's probably a hassle for NICE to reprogram the Clever Devices for just the summer and transfer the program to each of the buses only to have to change it back two months later. A lot of the buses have those beach ads though.

I'm pretty sure NJT's Clever Devices announce seasonal routes at transfer points and they change on time throughout the year, it seems automatically.

[Vistausss]

Dunno about Clever Devices but here in Europe it's not really a big deal to reprogram a route or add an announcement to a route. Don't see why that would be different with Clever Devices.

[Burrstone]

A lot of the buses have those beach ads though.

 

It doesn't mean people will read them. lol

 

 

It's probably a hassle for NICE to reprogram the Clever Devices for just the summer and transfer the program to each of the buses only to have to change it back two months later. A lot of the buses have those beach ads though.

 

I'm pretty sure NJT's Clever Devices announce seasonal routes at transfer points and they change on time throughout the year, it seems automatically.

 

Dunno about Clever Devices but here in Europe it's not really a big deal to reprogram a route or add an announcement to a route. Don't see why that would be different with Clever Devices.

 

I was thinking last week why it was so complicated to change "thank you for riding Long Island Bus" to "thank you for riding nice bus.  It seems like you should just be able to connect a laptop and change Long Island to NICE in a file, doesn't it?  Then I had to rap my head around the technology of yesterday, this was probably a sound clip that needed to be added, then I thought some more and if NICE didn't add "NICE" and deleted "Thank You for riding Long Island bus I decided it was way more complicated than and had no idea (still curious).

 

But my point is that I don't understand why any transit system still messes around with Clever Devices because simple technology these days easily replaces clever devices and is a lot easier to edit.  The same goes with the signs, why aren't manufacturers just installing led boards with a program that allows administration to easily re program destinations and messages?   

[Orion VII 4 Life]

It doesn't mean people will read them. lol

 

 

 

 

 

I was thinking last week why it was so complicated to change "thank you for riding Long Island Bus" to "thank you for riding nice bus.  It seems like you should just be able to connect a laptop and change Long Island to NICE in a file, doesn't it?  Then I had to rap my head around the technology of yesterday, this was probably a sound clip that needed to be added, then I thought some more and if NICE didn't add "NICE" and deleted "Thank You for riding Long Island bus I decided it was way more complicated than and had no idea (still curious).

 

But my point is that I don't understand why any transit system still messes around with Clever Devices because simple technology these days easily replaces clever devices and is a lot easier to edit.  The same goes with the signs, why aren't manufacturers just installing led boards with a program that allows administration to easily re program destinations and messages?   

There isn't a system not like the Clever Devices when it comes to auto announcements. Open source programs like Nextbus, MTA BusTime and whatnot are all exclusively for tracking buses. All systems are proprietary and the only one I knew was easy to reprogram was Digital Recorders, who got bought out by Clever Devices last year. They used a computerized (usually unclear) voice that could be reprogrammed with their software on any PC. Clever Devices is doing damn good across the country, they're winning contracts left and right especially now that they offer CAD/AVL and BusTime. I got no complaints about any of their systems on the customer side of things, the AVA here at NJT works great for the most part and BusTime is also a great system.

[PinePower]

They've put posters up? Any cool designs? Could you take a pic?

 

 

It's probably a hassle for NICE to reprogram the Clever Devices for just the summer and transfer the program to each of the buses only to have to change it back two months later. A lot of the buses have those beach ads though.

 

Its the same posters they have up at the Hicksville LIRR I believe.

[RtrainBlues]

All the people I've seen on this summer's N88 have been preppy types who are transferring to the LIRR back to Brooklyn/Manhattan at Freeport.  Freeport isn't that bad - it's slightly run-down, but it's not a high-crime area where you hear frequent gunshots.

 

Why would LIRR riders coming from Brooklyn/Manhattan want to take a longer train ride to Wantagh to get a N87 bus from there?  Their train ride is long enough already to Freeport, without having to add an extra 10 minutes on the LIRR to Wantagh.

[Burrstone]

All the people I've seen on this summer's N88 have been preppy types who are transferring to the LIRR back to Brooklyn/Manhattan at Freeport.  Freeport isn't that bad - it's slightly run-down, but it's not a high-crime area where you hear frequent gunshots.

 

 

Freeport is high crime.  Freeport LIRR is not dangerous, anyone who thinks so is a fool there is more people wanting to use your phone or asking f you have change than trying to rob, although there have been many people mugged at Freeport LIRR, it's not gonna make newsday or news12 but then again that is probably late at night anyone at Freeport LIRR during normal hours has nothing to worry about!

 

There is a lot of trash at Freeport LIRR and that may unattractive to some, but before I get bashed you will find trash in any poor area whether it be a black area, spanish area, or white area.

 

All the people I've seen on this summer's N88 have been preppy types who are transferring to the LIRR back to Brooklyn/Manhattan at Freeport. 

 

I have seen a lot of hipsters using the jones beach service I credit NICE's Facebook grassroots advertising.  Whoever, I would not ALL,in fact I  would say a majority who uses the service is trash.

 

 

 

Why would LIRR riders coming from Brooklyn/Manhattan want to take a longer train ride to Wantagh to get a N87 bus from there?  Their train ride is long enough already to Freeport, without having to add an extra 10 minutes on the LIRR to Wantagh.

 

It depends, a longer train ride could mean a shorter bus ride, getting on a bus that is less crowded, or less waiting time.  I don't know if any of those are true, but certainly a reason to stay on the train 10 minutes longer...

[Vistausss]

Taking a long train ride and then transfer to a packed bus which may be so packed that I have to wait for the next one or spend an extra 10 minutes on the train and transfer to a bus which is guaranteed to have seating and at worst SRO...

 

Dunno about you, RTrainBlues, but I'd choose the latter. I'm not too comfortable with sticking my nose up someone's armpit for such a long ride, if I can even make it on that bus. So the n87 would definetly be my choice.

[Joel Up Front]

Freeport is high crime.  Freeport LIRR is not dangerous, anyone who thinks so is a fool there is more people wanting to use your phone or asking f you have change than trying to rob, although there have been many people mugged at Freeport LIRR, it's not gonna make newsday or news12 but then again that is probably late at night anyone at Freeport LIRR during normal hours has nothing to worry about!

 

There is a lot of trash at Freeport LIRR and that may unattractive to some, but before I get bashed you will find trash in any poor area whether it be a black area, spanish area, or white area.

 

 

I have seen a lot of hipsters using the jones beach service I credit NICE's Facebook grassroots advertising.  Whoever, I would not ALL,in fact I  would say a majority who uses the service is trash.

 

 

 

It depends, a longer train ride could mean a shorter bus ride, getting on a bus that is less crowded, or less waiting time.  I don't know if any of those are true, but certainly a reason to stay on the train 10 minutes longer...

 

I felt safer at Freeport than I did at Hicksville.  The station and area around Hicksville is dirtier than Freeport ever was.

[Burrstone]

I felt safer at Freeport than I did at Hicksville.  The station and area around Hicksville is dirtier than Freeport ever was.

 

Dirt has never made me feel unsafe lol and many areas at Freeport LIRR smell like piss.  

 

I feel the complete opposite way. Numerous times when I was at Freeport, there was always someone who asked me if I had a light. But I have no problem taking out my camera and fanning in Hicksville.

 

I have been asked multiple times at Freeport (more than anywhere else) by people if they can use my phone including when the iphone first came out (that's when people asked me the most lol) are you f ucking kidding me?  No.  Either you're going to try to steal it or I'm going to get involved in some bullshit where you're having a conversation and I'm waiting for my phone.  If this is legitimate remember to bring some quarters to call your ride because it's not my responsibility to help you with that or that your middle aged, can't afford a phone and still rely on your mama to come and bail you out of trouble when you get stuck in freeport with no money to get home. lol

 

It's the same thing with the people at Penn Station who ask for a few bucks "...i'm stuck...  Insert sob story, can you help me out with $x to get home to wherever...."  Nope, not my problem, got my own shit to deal with, be a big boy and tell the conductor you're a few bucks short they'll either let it slide or give you the ticket to pay the next time you're in Penn Station.  Either you're on their list bc you do it all the time or you're just trying to gain sympathy to get the money and use it for something else.