Queens residents petition QM2 and QM20 changes

[Via Garibaldi 8]

http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/end-having-bxm9-buses-based-out-of-queens-and-qm2qm20-buses-based-out-of-the-bronx.html

[BreeddekalbL]

smh its too bad these people don't understand its for operational purposes,

it's like if its for their benefit they sit and yell rabble rabble rabble against it

[Via Garibaldi 8]

smh its too bad these people don't understand its for operational purposes,

it's like if its for their benefit they sit and yell rabble rabble rabble against it

What are you shaking your head about?  Tell me what is "operational" about having a bus depot in Queens do trips in the Bronx? 

[BreeddekalbL]

What are you shaking your head about?  Tell me what is "operational" about having a bus depot in Queens do trips in the Bronx? 

 

idk if you were around when it was revealed that  the bxm9 was coming to cp and that some the qm2/20 was going to EC  it was for the reason of a shortage of express buses

[QM1to6Ave]

Is this a well known thing? I've only read about this on here. I didn't think this was publicized in any way

[Via Garibaldi 8]

idk if you were around when it was revealed that  the bxm9 was coming to cp and that some the qm2/20 was going to EC  it was for the reason of a shortage of express buses

That's a lame excuse.  If they're so short on buses then pull some express buses out of storage.  The fact of the matter is these sorts of changes usually means delays and longer commutes for those who have to deal with them.  I expect lots of chaos from this change and folks out in Bay Terrace and Bayside deserve better, as well as those in Schulyverville and parts of Throggs Neck.  The four aforementioned neighborhoods have limited transportation and rely heavily on their express buses, so this change is a big deal.

 

 

Is this a well known thing? I've only read about this on here. I didn't think this was publicized in any way

It isn't and that's the problem.  Residents in Bay Terrace and Bayside argue that they were left in the dark on this switch and I support them 110% in their anger. 

[Cait Sith]

Is this a well known thing? I've only read about this on here. I didn't think this was publicized in any way

To a certain degree, most route swaps aren't supposed to be known to the public like that. Though lets be honest, half of the time, the riding public doesn't really care. The only noticiable change was when QM10 and QM11 passengers were saying they were going old school with the express Orion V CNGs.

 

The part where they talk about adding "additional mileage" is bullshit really. Deadhead trips to and from both terminals on all 3 lines top out at 13 minutes with very little mileage added to the buses. It's nothing different from the current Q50 setup to begin with, with trips deadheading from Flushing to The Bronx. And after looking at the run sheets, there's nothing really additional in pay for the operators. That whole statement is ass-backwards in its finest.

 

What are you shaking your head about?  Tell me what is "operational" about having a bus depot in Queens do trips in the Bronx? 

Answer this question, what's so "operational" about having the Q50 be completely ran in Eastchester when Queens can handle it on its own? 

 

The whole point of this is comes right down to the fleet. It's to increase the spare factor of buses in both depots. Eastchester has a relatively low spare factor and they, at times, have an insufficient amount of buses to make for full service.

 

Once upon a time, the QBx1 was strictly College Point, but had trips from Eastchester. This is not the first time this has happened. When the QBx1/Q50 went straight to Eastchester, College Point had a higher spare factor in buses and at the same time, junked a bunch of their older ones. But spare factor is the key term with this scenario.

 

After all, its not like many buses will be swapped. It's reduced trips from both depots for the routes mentioned. Higher spare factor+reduced trips=savings.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

To a certain degree, most route swaps aren't supposed to be known to the public like that. Though lets be honest, half of the time, the riding public doesn't really care. The only noticiable change was when QM10 and QM11 passengers were saying they were going old school with the express Orion V CNGs.

 

The part where they talk about adding "additional mileage" is bullshit really. Deadhead trips to and from both terminals on all 3 lines top out at 13 minutes with very little mileage added to the buses. It's nothing different from the current Q50 setup to begin with, with trips deadheading from Flushing to The Bronx. And after looking at the run sheets, there's nothing really additional in pay for the operators. That whole statement is ass-backwards in its finest.

 

Answer this question, what's so "operational" about having the Q50 be completely ran in Eastchester when Queens can handle it on its own? 

 

The whole point of this is comes right down to the fleet. It's to increase the spare factor of buses in both depots. Eastchester has a relatively low spare factor and they, at times, have an insufficient amount of buses to make for full service.

 

Once upon a time, the QBx1 was strictly College Point, but had trips from Eastchester. This is not the first time this has happened. When the QBx1/Q50 went straight to Eastchester, College Point had a higher spare factor in buses and at the same time, junked a bunch of their older ones. But spare factor is the key term with this scenario.

All I know is from previous experience these sorts of switches have been disasters for express bus riders.  We complained like hell when the X30 was moved to Meredith because we knew that buses would be severely delayed and we were right.  Service was worse under Meredith (in the mornings in particular) than it was out of Castleton which is quite a feat and on quite a few occasions, Castleton had to come to the rescue.  They do have a legitimate argument about buses being delayed and while you argue that very little mileage is added, I can understand them being bewildered at the idea of having another depot in another borough serving their neighborhood when there's is another depot nearby, regardless of the arguments set forth.  These people have limited transportation options and don't want their service screwed with, so I can understand their complaints.  

[Cait Sith]

All I know is from previous experience these sorts of switches have been disasters for express bus riders.  We complained like hell when the X30 was moved to Meredith because we knew that buses would be severely delayed and we were right.  Service was worse under Meredith (in the mornings in particular) than it was out of Castleton which is quite a feat and on quite a few occasions, Castleton had to come to the rescue.  They do have a legitimate argument about buses being delayed and while you argue that very little mileage is added, I can understand them being bewildered at the idea of having another depot in another borough serving their neighborhood when there's is another depot nearby, regardless of the arguments set forth.  These people have limited transportation options and don't want their service screwed with, so I can understand their complaints.  

 

I agree and disagree, I agree with that QM2/20 folks has very limited options, but the BxM9 folks? nawwwww. That area in particular around Throgs Neck has quite a lot of options in that immediate area and parts nearby.

 

If anything, the first week or two might be hectic because the operators who pick the runs on those lines gotta get used to the routing and whatnot. Buses being delayed is essentially inevitable. 

 

Although, you mentioning Staten Island is a completely different beast in itself, because we all know how shit at Staten Island goes down.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I agree and disagree, I agree with that QM2/20 folks has very limited options, but the BxM9 folks? nawwwww. That area in particular around Throgs Neck has quite a lot of options in that immediate area and parts nearby.

 

If anything, the first week or two might be hectic because the operators who pick the runs on those lines gotta get used to the routing and whatnot. Buses being delayed is essentially inevitable. 

 

Although, you mentioning Staten Island is a completely different beast in itself, because we all know how shit at Staten Island goes down.

What part of Throggs Neck are you referring to that has lots of options because Throggs Neck in general has very limited transportation to Manhattan. It's either the express bus or a bus to the subway which is a schlepp.

[Vistausss]

Exactly VG8. Everything that's not a comfy one-seat ride is a schlepp...........

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Exactly VG8. Everything that's not a comfy one-seat ride is a schlepp...........

The express bus isn't always a one seat ride either but it can eliminate some transfers.

[Vistausss]

If even the express bus isn't a one-seat ride then I'd really have to call it a schlepp. What kind of poor service is providing to those Throggs Neck people if it isn't a one-seat ride full-time??????

[Gotham Bus Co.]

I'm guessing that one depot is heavier during the AM peak (and thus has spare buses in the afternoon), while the other depot is heavier during the PM peak (and thus has spare buses in the morning). If that's the case, then it's more efficient to have each depot do some of the other's work.

 

Then again... Why should it matter to the passengers?? A typical rider waiting for a bus isn't going to reject the bus just because it came from a "wrong" depot.  (Or maybe they're afraid that the Bronx buses will bring Bronx crime with them!)

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I'm guessing that one depot is heavier during the AM peak (and thus has spare buses in the afternoon), while the other depot is heavier during the PM peak (and thus has spare buses in the morning). If that's the case, then it's more efficient to have each depot do some of the other's work.

 

Then again... Why should it matter to the passengers?? A typical rider waiting for a bus isn't going to reject the bus just because it came from a "wrong" depot.  (Or maybe they're afraid that the Bronx buses will bring Bronx crime with them!)

They're afraid of having long delays which seems like a reasonable concern.  More variables come into play with these sorts of setups.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

Is this a well known thing? I've only read about this on here. I didn't think this was publicized in any way

 

Does it really need to be publicized?  Should passengers care whether their bus comes from this depot or that depot?

[Cait Sith]

What part of Throggs Neck are you referring to that has lots of options because Throggs Neck in general has very limited transportation to Manhattan. It's either the express bus or a bus to the subway which is a schlepp.

 

The areas in general that the BxM9 travels along has the Bx8, Bx24, Bx40 and BX42 in the immediate area. Not that much of a schlepp at all. I've taken the BxM9 from Throggs Neck before, there are connecting routes all over that area and its not much of a walk either.

 

The Bx24 and Bx8 connects to the 6, the Bx40 and Bx42 connects to a huge number of routes. While its not really the quickest choices, there's more than enough ways to get around in the Throggs Neck area.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

They're afraid of having long delays which seems like a reasonable concern.  More variables come into play with these sorts of setups.

 

The L.I.E. will move just as quickly or slowly for an Eastchester bus as for a College Point bus. Ditto for the Bruckner. Delays won't suddenly appear or disappear based on depot. 

 

Besides, based on the pick sheets that were posted in another thread, Eastchester runs will get 50 minutes to pull out to Bayside in the morning, which allows plenty of cushion for the vagaries of the Throgs Neck Bridge. Similarly, College Point runs will get 55 minutes to pull out to 23rd Street in the afternoon.

[MTA Bus]

Why do they care anyway ? It's still going to use MCIs, so what's the big deal ?

[Cait Sith]

Why do they care anyway ? It's still going to use MCIs, so what's the big deal ?

 

It's not about that, their reason is for reliability of service.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

It's not about that, their reason is for reliability of service.

 

In the morning, Eastchester runs will get 50 minutes to pull out to Bayside. Google Maps calls that a 17-minute trip, so there's plenty of allowance for bridge congestion.

 

In the afternoon, College Point runs will get 55 minutes to pull out to 23rd & Madison, which is consistent with the 60 minutes that QV runs get to pull out to 23rd & First.

 

Long story short, I strongly suspect that the "person" who started this petition isn't so much a "Queens resident" (i.e. bus passenger) but somebody else whose initials are T, W, U.

[Cait Sith]

In the morning, Eastchester runs will get 50 minutes to pull out to Bayside. Google Maps calls that a 17-minute trip, so there's plenty of allowance for bridge congestion.

 

In the afternoon, College Point runs will get 55 minutes to pull out to 23rd & Madison, which is consistent with the 60 minutes that QV runs get to pull out to 23rd & First.

 

Long story short, I strongly suspect that the "person" who started this petition isn't so much a "Queens resident" (i.e. bus passenger) but somebody else whose initials are T, W, U.

 

You do bring up a pretty good point on that part...

[Vistausss]

What can I say, some people just love to complaint when given the opportunity...

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The L.I.E. will move just as quickly or slowly for an Eastchester bus as for a College Point bus. Ditto for the Bruckner. Delays won't suddenly appear or disappear based on depot. 

 

Besides, based on the pick sheets that were posted in another thread, Eastchester runs will get 50 minutes to pull out to Bayside in the morning, which allows plenty of cushion for the vagaries of the Throgs Neck Bridge. Similarly, College Point runs will get 55 minutes to pull out to 23rd Street in the afternoon.

Well I'm glad you're so positive about the change.  What's on paper and what actually happens are two different things.  Typical ... I've dealt with depot swaps in the past and they were a huge disaster.  

 

 

The areas in general that the BxM9 travels along has the Bx8, Bx24, Bx40 and BX42 in the immediate area. Not that much of a schlepp at all. I've taken the BxM9 from Throggs Neck before, there are connecting routes all over that area and its not much of a walk either.

 

The Bx24 and Bx8 connects to the 6, the Bx40 and Bx42 connects to a huge number of routes. While its not really the quickest choices, there's more than enough ways to get around in the Throggs Neck area.

Well I think that depends on where in Throggs Neck.  The is all the way in Pelham Bay.

[R32 3838]

So wait the QM2/20 is going to ECH?