Bronx Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

How would I know? I don't use the BxM6.

1000th Post in this thread right here^^^

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

compared to MN woodlawn patrons the Bxm4 patrons are very few. Metronorth is $4 weekends. And links to the   for other manhattan areas. Elderly is an argument used when you have no other argument left you know better than to use elderly to defend a barely used express bus cmon kid.

Funny how you always use the term kid to signify that they are wrong. 

Anyways, you might as well take the X27 and X28 Weekend With then, because it parallels the and trains and the B16 to the to the and the B1 to the to the will do the job more frequent. Besides, the subway is only $2.25, and the connect to other trains serving other areas of Manhattan. While we're at it, let's discontinue the BM3, totally useless, and one can take the bus to the train for expanded oppurtunities (but 1/6 of the time get ready to get screwed up royally). The Subway is only $2.25, and the BM3 has low ridership. Let's get rid of the BM4, since it can be easily done by B31 to the , and the BM1, since you lose money operating it and the B100 to the will do just fine. (Really do hope you arent taking what I just said above seriously, from the second sentence on)

[qjtransitmaster]

Funny how you always use the term kid to signify that they are wrong.

Anyways, you might as well take the X27 and X28 Weekend With then, because it parallels the and trains and the B16 to the to the and the B1 to the to the will do the job more frequent. Besides, the subway is only $2.25, and the connect to other trains serving other areas of Manhattan. While we're at it, let's discontinue the BM3, totally useless, and one can take the bus to the train for expanded oppurtunities (but 1/6 of the time get ready to get screwed up royally). The Subway is only $2.25, and the BM3 has low ridership. Let's get rid of the BM4, since it can be easily done by B31 to the , and the BM1, since you lose money operating it and the B100 to the will do just fine. (Really do hope you arent taking what I just said above seriously, from the second sentence on)

Moron unlike bxm4 X28/27 have HIGH ridership and serve mostly outlying parts of their boroughs without wasting time on a regular road making drop offs for people accross the river they are quick and direct and rank in the top 5 for express bus ridership bxm4 has the lowest ridership of any non peak only express bus weekdays. Do you see express buses on flatbush ave stopping at downtown brooklyn en rte to sheepshead NO!! Do you see express buses stopping all over queens blvd at LIC no you don't cause if those lines existedbthey would be just like bxm4 lightly used. You can't compare the weakest to the strongest lines fail on that strategy. Ohh FYI EVEN the BM4 has almost double the weekday riders the sad part it sees more riders a week excluding Saturday than the bxm4 sees a whole week. Bm3 has very high ridership compared to the bxm4 and parts of Bm3& 1 can't be easily done by local or LTD bus to subway as easily as the bxm4 so that logic won't work here there are no lines you can compare that bxm fail to cause it is the only one with it's characteristics. One does not simply compare bxm4 to the BM3 or 1 especially to high ridership lines like the X28. LOL at tryna compare a poorly performing line like bxm4 to a highly patronized line like X27 laughable.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

 

 

Moron unlike bxm4 X28/27 have HIGH ridership and serve mostly outlying parts of their boroughs without wasting time on a regular road making drop offs for people accross the river they are quick and direct and rank in the top 5 for express bus ridership bxm4 has the lowest ridership of any non peak only express bus weekdays. Do you see express buses on flatbush ave stopping at downtown brooklyn en rte to sheepshead NO!! Do you see express buses stopping all over queens blvd at LIC no you don't cause if those lines existedbthey would be just like bxm4 lightly used. You can't compare the weakest to the strongest lines fail on that strategy. Ohh FYI EVEN the BM4 has almost double the weekday riders the sad part it sees more riders a week excluding Saturday than the bxm4 sees a whole week. Bm3 has very high ridership compared to the bxm4 and parts of Bm3& 1 can't be easily done by local or LTD bus to subway as easily as the bxm4 so that logic won't work here there are no lines you can compare that bxm fail to cause it is the only one with it's characteristics. One does not simply compare bxm4 to the BM3 or 1 especially to high ridership lines like the X28. LOL at tryna compare a poorly performing line like bxm4 to a highly patronized line like X27 laughable.

Black:By this logic, I guess you're happy the QM22 is gone....

 

Red: I was talking about Saturdays Only

Edited June 19, 2013 by Q23 Central Terminal

[qjtransitmaster]

 

Black:By this logic, I guess you're happy the QM22 is gone....

 

Red: I was talking about Saturdays Only

QM22 was only 2 trips unlike bxm4 it had a full bus the 6th ave bus was not needed but the 3rd ave bus was however 1 trip can't hold 61 passengers so 2 buses were needed it actually had alot of riders for a bus with only 2 trips. Now if it was x25 empty yeah it deserved oblivion. The QM22 was the only similar route but those riders were old. It would be too much trouble to add LTD Q69 to absorb QM22 riders. Bxm4 is the least efficient express line that is not limited to peak service. Stop defending the weak. On another note do you know how the bxm6 is used in Manhattan? I do know that it is very efficient due to only having 3 outer Borough stops before going to Manhattan. I see many bxm6 buses with many seats taken.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

QM22 was only 2 trips unlike bxm4 it had a full bus the 6th ave bus was not needed but the 3rd ave bus was however 1 trip can't hold 61 passengers so 2 buses were needed it actually had alot of riders for a bus with only 2 trips. Now if it was x25 empty yeah it deserved oblivion. The QM22 was the only similar route but those riders were old. It would be too much trouble to add LTD Q69 to absorb QM22 riders. Bxm4 is the least efficient express line that is not limited to peak service. Stop defending the weak. On another note do you know how the bxm6 is used in Manhattan? I do know that it is very efficient due to only having 3 outer Borough stops before going to Manhattan. I see many bxm6 buses with many seats taken.

You're getting it wrong. Get your facts straight. An MCI cant take 61 passengers

 

It's ridership was 60 overall, divide it by 4, and you get 15. That's still enough money to cover it's costs and stuff.

 

So if most of those riders were elderly, than why take down the BxM4.

 

As for the BxM6, it has a nice load mainly throughout the enitre portion of Manhattan.

Edited June 19, 2013 by Q23 Central Terminal

[qjtransitmaster]

You're getting it wrong. Get your facts straight. An MCI cant take 61 passengers

 

It's ridership was 60 overall, divide it by 4, and you get 15. That's still enough money to cover it's costs and stuff.

 

So if most of those riders were elderly, than why take down the BxM4.

 

As for the BxM6, it has a nice load mainly throughout the enitre portion of Manhattan.

actually QM22 had 2 round trips 2 am and 2 pm for a very limited service route it did well. So most bxm4 riders are old ppl that explains the low ridership then. Anyway I mean which stops are the top 3 or 4 in terms of ridership for the bxm6 are many boarding at 51st or 57 and upper Manhattan or 23rd and 34th?

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

actually QM22 had 2 round trips 2 am and 2 pm for a very limited service route it did well. So most bxm4 riders are old ppl that explains the low ridership then. Anyway I mean which stops are the top 3 or 4 in terms of ridership for the bxm6 are many boarding at 51st or 57 and upper Manhattan or 23rd and 34th?

I dunno the BxM4, ask someone else about that.

 

As for the BxM6, most ridership tends to develops between 34th and 57th. 

Edited June 19, 2013 by Q23 Central Terminal

[qjtransitmaster]

I dunno the BxM4, ask someone else about that.

 

As for the BxM6, most ridership tends to develops between 34th and 57th. 

34th and 57th ehh I see even at off-peak hours? for the Bxm6

[Bounad Hanhic]

Well, a lot of people on these forums never rode the QM22. If anyone actually rode the QM22 you would know that the 6th Avenue QM22 carried more than the 3rd Avenue QM22 this was especially true during the AM trips. It did well for a route that barely anybody in the community knew about and has the potential to carry a lot of riders. A Q69 Limited that runs into Manhattan would be a disaster given that the Q69 is a good performing route ridership wise and operating cost wise and suffers from service reliability issues already. 

[qjtransitmaster]

Well, a lot of people on these forums never rode the QM22. If anyone actually rode the QM22 you would know that the 6th Avenue QM22 carried more than the 3rd Avenue QM22 this was especially true during the AM trips. It did well for a route that barely anybody in the community knew about and has the potential to carry a lot of riders. A Q69 Limited that runs into Manhattan would be a disaster given that the Q69 is a good performing route ridership wise and operating cost wise and suffers from service reliability issues already. 

For a route with only 2 trips it did well. To be honest Q69 is unreliable due to it being local. The LTD won't have the same reliability issues due to less stops but I see your point but QM22 was too close to manhattan to be even an express bus just look at the Q32 it's basically a frequent cheaper QM22. However running 2 QM22 trips would be cheaper to operate than Q69 LTD via 5th ave as that would require frequent service and duplicate parts of the Q100. I don't think QM22 can return as an express bus it won't make any sense nor would it attract more riders actually more trips would do nothing it would end up carrying only a few hundred riders. Since it's route covers Q69 mostly it would be best if QM22 is brought back as a LTD version of the Q69 but for rush hour peak direction only with 10 min headways for a route that ends in the same area as the Q32 in terms of distance a $6 fare just seems unfair and overpriced local fare would attract more riders I doubt an MCI is needed for such a route anyway.

Edited June 19, 2013 by qjtransitmaster

[checkmatechamp13]

They already are using our services as it is.  I'm sure they use the BxM18 up to the Riverdale border mainly due to Westchester cutting back the BxM4C, which I don't particularly care for but it is what it is.  The way I see it, we've fought hard to get/keep the service that we have and I don't think Westchester should be benefiting from our efforts.  If anything it seems as if they keep cutting their services and forcing their residents to use city resources that Riverdale receives.  They live in Yonkers yet they're mooching off of city services.  

 

You do realize that Riverdale Avenue is literally on the opposite side of the city (Yonkers) from Central Park Avenue, right?

 

LOL... That's something I didn't give much thought to because I just assumed those buses would go down Broadway, but quite frankly I would not want them traveling through my area of Riverdale.  There's enough buses running down Riverdale Av and Henry Hudson Parkway as it is.  

 

Why would they go down Broadway if the terminal is at the same place as the Bx7/10 on Riverdale Avenue? 

 

Bxm2 maybe Bxm1's first stop is in the E 90s 98th I think. Plus the riverdale lines are nowhere near central park ave. They'd be better off skipping on the Bxm lines altogether they mostly serve the bronx and serve the bronx much better than they can westchester. Bxm4C does not except transfers from any route.

Bold are you sure last I checked Bxm4C serves central park ave and Bxm18 makes a ton of stops in the bronx which is mostly bronx patrons it would simply be too slow for westchester riders. Reply in red to bxm comment. If you take the Bxm18 to transfer to the Bxm4C everyday for commuting YOU ARE A SUPER MORON!!! that is a whopping $420 not even metro-north with monthly metrocard would add up to that from white plains!!!! Even if you just did the subway for $2.5 to get the 4C that is an extra $50 so that is $350 total last I checked Metro-north is $222 add a monthly metrocard and it is still cheaper!! Sad but true However If they drive to riverdale for Bxm18 I am pretty sure only a few a small very few have the patience to sit through all those bronx stops anyway. However with only monthly metrocard one can just use the to the for the beeline that is faster than Bxm18 to Beeline as Beeline is closed door and is super express in manhattan for just $112 without using the BXM express. However if your going to yonkers the BXM3 is faster anyway but still pales to the train and very few Bxm3 riders start their trip in westchester county anyway the 3 does it to reduce DH time.

 

He's not talking about taking the BxM4C to the BxM18. He's talking about using the BxM18 as an alternative to the BxM4C. 

 

Funny how you always use the term kid to signify that they are wrong. 

Anyways, you might as well take the X27 and X28 Weekend With then, because it parallels the and trains and the B16 to the to the and the B1 to the to the will do the job more frequent. Besides, the subway is only $2.25, and the connect to other trains serving other areas of Manhattan. While we're at it, let's discontinue the BM3, totally useless, and one can take the bus to the train for expanded oppurtunities (but 1/6 of the time get ready to get screwed up royally). The Subway is only $2.25, and the BM3 has low ridership. Let's get rid of the BM4, since it can be easily done by B31 to the , and the BM1, since you lose money operating it and the B100 to the will do just fine. (Really do hope you arent taking what I just said above seriously, from the second sentence on)

 

The fare is $2.25? I thought it was $2.50. 

 

FWIW, I'd actually agree with getting rid of the BM4, at the very least on Saturdays.

 

QM22 was only 2 trips unlike bxm4 it had a full bus the 6th ave bus was not needed but the 3rd ave bus was however 1 trip can't hold 61 passengers so 2 buses were needed it actually had alot of riders for a bus with only 2 trips. Now if it was x25 empty yeah it deserved oblivion. The QM22 was the only similar route but those riders were old. It would be too much trouble to add LTD Q69 to absorb QM22 riders. Bxm4 is the least efficient express line that is not limited to peak service. Stop defending the weak. On another note do you know how the bxm6 is used in Manhattan? I do know that it is very efficient due to only having 3 outer Borough stops before going to Manhattan. I see many bxm6 buses with many seats taken.

 

I'm pretty sure it's 61 passengers divided over both directions. That's 30 passengers per bus if it was just one branch. 15 passengers if divided over 2 branches.

 

And it's not efficient because it only has 3 stops. It's efficient because those 3 stops are in a dense neighborhood, where some people prefer the express bus. If those 3 stops were in a neighborhood full of single-family homes, ridership would be very low.

 

So if most of those riders were elderly, than why take down the BxM4.

 

If most of those riders are elderly, but in sheer numbers, there weren't a lot of them.....

 

34th and 57th ehh I see even at off-peak hours? for the Bxm6

 

Between 34th & 57th is the heart of Midtown, so those stops are likely the heaviest for most BxM routes. 

Edited June 20, 2013 by checkmatechamp13

[Bounad Hanhic]

 

I'm pretty sure it's 61 passengers divided over both directions. That's 30 passengers per bus if it was just one branch. 15 passengers if divided over 2 branches.

 

 

 

Most QM22 ridership was in the morning. Pretty much the pattern for the former Triboro express buses is that they carry heavy in morning and carry light in the evening. That trend exists among all Queens express buses, but on the Triboro express buses it is even more skewed than the others. The exception to this could be the QM24 and perhaps the QM11. 

Edited June 20, 2013 by Bounad Hanhic

[B35 via Church]

Most QM22 ridership was in the morning. Pretty much the pattern for the former Triboro express buses is that they carry heavy in morning and carry light in the evening. That trend exists among all Queens express buses, but on the Triboro express buses it is even more skewed than the others. The exception to this could be the QM24 and perhaps the QM11. 

...which supports a small theory I have about AM commuting, compared to PM commuting.....

 

There's more of a descrepancy to how variable ppl's PM commutes are, compared to their AM commutes....

[qjtransitmaster]

You do realize that Riverdale Avenue is literally on the opposite side of the city (Yonkers) from Central Park Avenue, right?

 

 

Why would they go down Broadway if the terminal is at the same place as the Bx7/10 on Riverdale Avenue?

 

 

He's not talking about taking the BxM4C to the BxM18. He's talking about using the BxM18 as an alternative to the BxM4C.

 

 

The fare is $2.25? I thought it was $2.50.

 

FWIW, I'd actually agree with getting rid of the BM4, at the very least on Saturdays.

 

 

I'm pretty sure it's 61 passengers divided over both directions. That's 30 passengers per bus if it was just one branch. 15 passengers if divided over 2 branches.

 

And it's not efficient because it only has 3 stops. It's efficient because those 3 stops are in a dense neighborhood, where some people prefer the express bus. If those 3 stops were in a neighborhood full of single-family homes, ridership would be very low.

 

 

If most of those riders are elderly, but in sheer numbers, there weren't a lot of them.....

 

 

Between 34th & 57th is the heart of Midtown, so those stops are likely the heaviest for most BxM routes.

I don't think VG8 uses proper logic when express buses are involved. Any sane person would know that the bxm18 is not a proper alternative to the Bxm4c as it is even slower due to bronx riders. He is just to proud to admit that most of the sane ones who need wall street switched to the metro-north and subway or W20 to the for those who are real cheap and close to the bronx.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

You do realize that Riverdale Avenue is literally on the opposite side of the city (Yonkers) from Central Park Avenue, right?

 

 

Why would they go down Broadway if the terminal is at the same place as the Bx7/10 on Riverdale Avenue? 

 

Yeah and? There's something called a car.  Why do people backtrack on Staten Island for the X12? The point is with the BxM18, they maintain a one seat ride Downtown as opposed to multiple transfers.  There aren't that many of them anyway, so it's not like it's a common set up, but some do indeed drive to catch the Riverdale express buses that live in Yonkers or along Broadway.

 

What part of I never gave it much thought do you not understand? Obviously I didn't know where they terminated, nor do I care so long as they're not going through my immediate neighborhood.  I thought of Broadway because of the train.  No other reason.

Edited June 21, 2013 by Via Garibaldi 8

[qjtransitmaster]

Yeah and? There's something called a car. Why do people backtrack on Staten Island for the X12? The point is with the BxM18, they maintain a one seat ride Downtown as opposed to multiple transfers. There aren't that many of them anyway, so it's not like it's a common set up, but some do indeed drive to catch the Riverdale express buses that live in Yonkers or along Broadway.

 

What part of I never gave it much thought do you not understand? Obviously I didn't know where they terminated, nor do I care so long as they're not going through my immediate neighborhood. I thought of Broadway because of the train. No other reason.

ohh ok so a few are dumb enough to do it nevermind but with that car they can get the and pay less!!! And get a one seat ride to boot. Westchester County to Manhattan is best done by metro-north your complaining about a handful of idiots using your buses I see bxm18 loads very few come from Westchester County 5 or less. The rest use W20 to or mnrr to bxm18 doesn't have the frequency to be useful to Westchester County people what sent 4C people to other modes like MNRR to W commuter or crosstown like 8 &7 ect or W20 to was that asinine fare hike $7.50 per ride and no transfers accepted and the nerve to sit delayed by the deegan parking lot sounds like a big RIP-OFF!! If you need wall st and have to switch to the at 86 st that is a whopping $350 a month not even a mnrr monthly to Crestwood with unlimited metrocard is that expensive!!! Edited June 21, 2013 by qjtransitmaster

[Via Garibaldi 8]

ohh ok so a few are dumb enough to do it nevermind but with that car they can get the and pay less!!! And get a one seat ride to boot. Westchester County to Manhattan is best done by metro-north your complaining about a handful of idiots using your buses I see bxm18 loads very few come from Westchester County 5 or less. The rest use W20 to or mnrr to bxm18 doesn't have the frequency to be useful to Westchester County people what sent 4C people to other modes like MNRR to W commuter or crosstown like 8 &7 ect or W20 to was that asinine fare hike $7.50 per ride and no transfers accepted and the nerve to sit delayed by the deegan parking lot sounds like a big RIP-OFF!! If you need wall st and have to switch to the at 86 st that is a whopping $350 a month not even a mnrr monthly to Crestwood with unlimited metrocard is that expensive!!!

Well maybe some of them don't want to take the subway...

[qjtransitmaster]

Well maybe some of them don't want to take the subway...

yeah 5 to 4 people or the ones who don't want the subway would simply use Metro-north. I only took the bxm4C earlier because it was cheaper and I was able to use the express bus card. With the way it's fare is now it is simply a waste of money to even bother with it. If they work by grand central that is even better for em.

[B35 via Church]

Downtown the BxM18 makes the same stops that the BxM4C did, so it would make sense for them to use it to cut down on transfers if anything not to mention that it's cheaper than MetroNorth.

 

I don't think VG8 uses proper logic when express buses are involved. Any sane person would know that the bxm18 is not a proper alternative to the Bxm4c as it is even slower due to bronx riders. He is just to proud to admit that most of the sane ones who need wall street switched to the metro-north and subway or W20 to the for those who are real cheap and close to the bronx.

He didn't say the BxM18 was a proper alternative to the BxM4c.....

 

 

- The core of his argument is regarding folks in westchester utilizing NYC services....

Listen, Yonkers residents pay an additional tax to live there and if they're so concerned about their transportation, then let their local leaders find the funding to either provide a separate service OR supplement the to have some service extended there, but I don't support using city resources for Westchester.  The idea of extending Riverdale buses to Yonkers has never sat well with me when it has been proposed in the past.

 

They already are using our services as it is.  I'm sure they use the BxM18 up to the Riverdale border mainly due to Westchester cutting back the BxM4C, which I don't particularly care for but it is what it is.  The way I see it, we've fought hard to get/keep the service that we have and I don't think Westchester should be benefiting from our efforts.  If anything it seems as if they keep cutting their services and forcing their residents to use city resources that Riverdale receives. They live in Yonkers yet they're mooching off of city services. 

 

 

- The core of your argument however... Well hell, here it is verbatim:

....No Westchester County folks do not use bxm18 they use metro-north. With bxm4C cuts I am pretty sure that they use metro north now plus at $7.50 with restrictions on the transfers the metro-north is the better deal.....

You injected MNRR into the discussion to combat the notion of former BxM4c riders taking BxM18's....

 

The fact that the 2 express routes shared stops in lower manhattan wasn't him saying the BxM18 was an alternative to the BxM4c.... In this particular case, he's rather annoyed by w/e westchester folks that perhaps use the 18 instead of the 4c.... Personally, that issue (of westchester folks using NYC services) isn't a big a deal to me, but I do understand his gripe....

 

You however, are confusing it to suit your never-ending agenda of MNRR >> the express bus in the Bronx.....

[qjtransitmaster]

You injected MNRR into the discussion to combat the notion of former BxM4c riders taking BxM18's....

 

The fact that the 2 express routes shared stops in lower manhattan wasn't him saying the BxM18 was an alternative to the BxM4c.... In this particular case, he's rather annoyed by w/e westchester folks that perhaps use the 18 instead of the 4c.... Personally, that issue (of westchester folks using NYC services) isn't a big a deal to me, but I do understand his gripe....

 

You however, are confusing it to suit your never-ending agenda of MNRR >> the express bus in the Bronx.....

He overblown his gripe however. MNRR doesn't compete well against bxm1/2 unless your heading for Midtown directly or downtown. Other bxm lines do not directly compete with metro-north as most are nowhere near MNRR. Therefore it is not feasible to make a MNRR>> express bus agenda. When I say bxm lines that do not compete directly I mean lines that are heavily utilized and not empty half the time.

[B35 via Church]

He overblown his gripe however.

 

MNRR doesn't compete well against bxm1/2 unless your heading for Midtown directly or downtown. Other bxm lines do not directly compete with metro-north as most are nowhere near MNRR. Therefore it is not feasible to make a MNRR>> express bus agenda. When I say bxm lines that do not compete directly I mean lines that are heavily utilized and not empty half the time.

Nope..... you're trying to pose your point as if it's his gripe.....

 

Again, the gripe is westchester patrons using NYC services.... This doesn't mean just any patron of the county that uses the BxM18, but any of NYC's local buses & subways as well....

 

The only thing I think he's exaggerating is the amt. of westchester folks that are taking BxM18's instead of the BxM4c....

(that's where I partially agree with you.... there aren't many westchester folks taking 18's like that...

However, your whole thing is that those riders (BxM4c) done migrated to taking the MNRR; which I cannot agree with completely either....)

 

To sum it up, You're still making this about competition.....

Edited June 22, 2013 by B35 via Church

[qjtransitmaster]

Nope..... you're trying to pose your point as if it's his gripe.....

 

Again, the gripe is westchester patrons using NYC services.... This doesn't mean just any patron of the county that uses the BxM18, but any of NYC's local buses & subways as well....

 

The only thing I think he's exaggerating is the amt. of westchester folks that are taking BxM18's instead of the BxM4c....

(that's where I partially agree with you.... there aren't many westchester folks taking 18's like that...

However, your whole thing is that those riders (BxM4c) done migrated to taking the MNRR; which I cannot agree with completely either....)

 

To sum it up, You're still making this about competition.....

well that is because some migrated to the W20 to the train which is why you can't say all migrated to MNRR. But once people realize how much the 4C costs vs MNRR they would migrate even faster and the 4C would lose more riders even faster.

[B35 via Church]

But once people realize how much the 4C costs vs MNRR they would migrate even faster and the 4C would lose more riders even faster.

Exactly my point... You're making this about the MNRR.

[Turbo19]

well that is because some migrated to the W20 to the train which is why you can't say all migrated to MNRR. But once people realize how much the 4C costs vs MNRR they would migrate even faster and the 4C would lose more riders even faster.

I just have to ask , why the obsession with killing the 4C? It serving its purpose, I'd just leave it alone.