Bronx Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[qjtransitmaster]

"Calm my shit" Who in Woodlawn in trying to get to the ?

it is for the sake of killing duplication. And making it easier to reach W1,2 & NJT at GWB via . and link that area to the central park ave corridor via W21/20 & parts of Westchester via metro-north & W42 as bx16 crosses those lines. Also the gets to upper west side quicker than the from the Bronx depending on your origin. Those looking for & can continue taking bx34 service.

[Q43LTD]

proof?

He lives in the area, that should be enough proof for you

Edited January 14, 2015 by Q43LTD

[B35 via Church]

He lives in the area, that should be enough proof for you

Normally I would agree with this logic, but this is the same person (BxM4) that's suggesting routes for his own personal benefit....

 

it is for the sake of killing duplication. And making it easier to reach W1,2 & NJT at GWB via . and link that area to the central park ave corridor via W21/20 & parts of Westchester via metro-north & W42 as bx16 crosses those lines.....

For what? The Woodlawn patrons that need any part of Westchester take Metro North, Period.

You're not gonna get them to take Bee-Line to get them to wherever they have to go.

 

I read somewhere that the MTA conducted a study on both buses in 2000 and saw that passengers going to Fordham Ctr used the Bx28 and not the Bx26. I wonder if that's the reason why the TA chose to run some Bx28 buses to Fordham Ctr because Fordham service wasn't reliable back then, they didn't go there on Sundays, and there were short turns to Moshulu Pkwy.

Thanks for the info (didn't know they actually did on a study on that).

 

My guess as to why it was, is because the Bx28 overall simply had more service than the Bx26 (that whole deal w/ the part time Bx25 didn't help matters either)... So those that utilized those respective routes (26/28) b/w Co-op & White Plains rd. (the bulk of the ridership on each of those routes) flocked to the Bx28.... and FWIW, the Bx28 served/serves more "popular" areas along that same stretch....

 

Odd enough, you would think that the 26 would get you to WPR from co-op quicker than the 28, but I find that it simply does not.... I think what it is, is that the 26 sees more riders at the "intermediate" stops (or w/e you want to call it), and the 28 b/w co-op & WPR for the most part, gets more/most of its passenger activity (from co-op) to/from the , boston rd, and WPR itself..... Saying it another way, the ridership is more spread out on the 26....

 

All of which is why I don't agree with sending Bx26's to some Fordham center again.... Hell, even if they were to increase service on the 26, it wouldn't justify such an extension either, because that's just going to result in overserving Allerton av.... More of the service should continue to be dedicated to Gun Hill rd over Allerton av, for reason(s) previously stated.....

 

I wonder how ridership would be on the 26, if an Allerton av station existed on the Dyre av line....

[Q43LTD]

Normally I would agree with this logic, but this is the same person (BxM4) that's suggesting routes for his own personal benefit....

 

For what? The Woodlawn patrons that need any part of Westchester take Metro North, Period.

You're not gonna get them to take Bee-Line to get them to wherever they have to go.

 

Thanks for the info (didn't know they actually did on a study on that).

 

My guess as to why it was, is because the Bx28 overall simply had more service than the Bx26 (that whole deal w/ the part time Bx25 didn't help matters either)... So those that utilized those respective routes (26/28) b/w Co-op & White Plains rd. (the bulk of the ridership on each of those routes) flocked to the Bx28.... and FWIW, the Bx28 served/serves more "popular" areas along that same stretch....

 

Odd enough, you would think that the 26 would get you to WPR from co-op quicker than the 28, but I find that it simply does not.... I think what it is, is that the 26 sees more riders at the "intermediate" stops (or w/e you want to call it), and the 28 b/w co-op & WPR for the most part, gets more/most of its passenger activity (from co-op) to/from the , boston rd, and WPR itself..... Saying it another way, the ridership is more spread out on the 26....

 

All of which is why I don't agree with sending Bx26's to some Fordham center again.... Hell, even if they were to increase service on the 26, it wouldn't justify such an extension either, because that's just going to result in overserving Allerton av.... More of the service should continue to be dedicated to Gun Hill rd over Allerton av, for reason(s) previously stated.....

 

I wonder how ridership would be on the 26, if an Allerton av station existed on the Dyre av line....

As far as that last statement goes, I think the 26 stays at Fordham and the 25 would still be eliminated somehow had there been an Allerton station on the Dyre line...when the Bx28 ended at Moshulu, was it the station by Tracey Towers?

[qjtransitmaster]

Normally I would agree with this logic, but this is the same person (BxM4) that's suggesting routes for his own personal benefit....

 

For what? The Woodlawn patrons that need any part of Westchester take Metro North, Period.

You're not gonna get them to take Bee-Line to get them to wherever they have to go.

 

Thanks for the info (didn't know they actually did on a study on that).

 

My guess as to why it was, is because the Bx28 overall simply had more service than the Bx26 (that whole deal w/ the part time Bx25 didn't help matters either)... So those that utilized those respective routes (26/28) b/w Co-op & White Plains rd. (the bulk of the ridership on each of those routes) flocked to the Bx28.... and FWIW, the Bx28 served/serves more "popular" areas along that same stretch....

 

Odd enough, you would think that the 26 would get you to WPR from co-op quicker than the 28, but I find that it simply does not.... I think what it is, is that the 26 sees more riders at the "intermediate" stops (or w/e you want to call it), and the 28 b/w co-op & WPR for the most part, gets more/most of its passenger activity (from co-op) to/from the , boston rd, and WPR itself..... Saying it another way, the ridership is more spread out on the 26....

 

All of which is why I don't agree with sending Bx26's to some Fordham center again.... Hell, even if they were to increase service on the 26, it wouldn't justify such an extension either, because that's just going to result in overserving Allerton av.... More of the service should continue to be dedicated to Gun Hill rd over Allerton av, for reason(s) previously stated.....

 

I wonder how ridership would be on the 26, if an Allerton av station existed on the Dyre av line....

I was referring to GWB/inwood & Riverdale/broadway corridor. ( via transfer from other buses or to this bx16)

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Then why create a zig-zag route that looks more like an EKG than a viable bus service?

Don't ask me.  I'm not the one proposing the route...

[Gotham Bus Co.]

He lives in the area, that should be enough proof for you

 

One person living in a neighborhood doesn't prove that everybody in that neighborhood wants to travel to another neighborhood.

[Q43LTD]

One person living in a neighborhood doesn't prove that everybody in that neighborhood wants to travel to another neighborhood.

I was talking about Woodlawn residents and their train selection

[BxM4Woodlawn]

yes I know I live in Woodlawn so I see where people go and what they are taking. Most people the Bx34 or 16 to the . Then a few take it down to Norwood to catch the . Also several Woodlawn residents take the Bx31 to get to the . Several others are also catching the metro-north, going in both directions.

as far as the Bee-Line goes.

why would I or any other Woodlawn resident need to get to the 1 or 2 on Broadway. We have the 25 and 26 on McLean Ave, or if we needed to we can walk over to Central Ave & McLean to get the 4, 20, or 21.

[qjtransitmaster]

yes I know I live in Woodlawn so I see where people go and what they are taking. Most people the Bx34 or 16 to the . Then a few take it down to Norwood to catch the . Also several Woodlawn residents take the Bx31 to get to the . Several others are also catching the metro-north, going in both directions.

as far as the Bee-Line goes.

why would I or any other Woodlawn resident need to get to the 1 or 2 on Broadway. We have the 25 and 26 on McLean Ave, or if we needed to we can walk over to Central Ave & McLean to get the 4, 20, or 21.

here's a word of advice people cannot use a service that does not exist

[B35 via Church]

As far as that last statement goes, I think the 26 stays at Fordham and the 25 would still be eliminated somehow had there been an Allerton station on the Dyre line...when the Bx28 ended at Moshulu, was it the station by Tracey Towers?

I don't think there would have been a routing change... I was rhetorically asking how much more ridership would end up on the 26, and really, how much less ridership (less crowded) the 28 would end up being.... As is, one reason you have those that have to use the 28 b/c you got the @ Gun Hill there.....

 

And yes, the Bx28 used to end at Jerome av.

[Q43 Floral Park]

I don't think there would have been a routing change... I was rhetorically asking how much more ridership would end up on the 26, and really, how much less ridership (less crowded) the 28 would end up being.... As is, one reason you have those that have to use the 28 b/c you got the @ Gun Hill there.....

 

And yes, the Bx28 used to end at Jerome av.

I've always wondered why they never added a stop at Allerton (possibly the proximity to Gun Hill) but I do think it would have shifted ridership to the 26.

 

yes I know I live in Woodlawn so I see where people go and what they are taking. Most people the Bx34 or 16 to the . Then a few take it down to Norwood to catch the . Also several Woodlawn residents take the Bx31 to get to the . Several others are also catching the metro-north, going in both directions.

as far as the Bee-Line goes.

why would I or any other Woodlawn resident need to get to the 1 or 2 on Broadway. We have the 25 and 26 on McLean Ave, or if we needed to we can walk over to Central Ave & McLean to get the 4, 20, or 21.

This is the same logic VG8 uses for Riverdale and its faulty because you can't observe every pattern of ridership. There are outliers, in a hypothetical scenario: Someone lives in Woodlawn and works at Columbia Pres. It would be faster to take two buses to the 1 train than to the options you gave.

[BxM4Woodlawn]

I've always wondered why they never added a stop at Allerton (possibly the proximity to Gun Hill) but I do think it would have shifted ridership to the 26.

 

 

This is the same logic VG8 uses for Riverdale and its faulty because you can't observe every pattern of ridership. There are outliers, in a hypothetical scenario: Someone lives in Woodlawn and works at Columbia Pres. It would be faster to take two buses to the 1 train than to the options you gave.

to columbia pres you can take the to 145th then transfer to the

[Q43 Floral Park]

It's not faster than 2 buses and the 1, map it

[Via Garibaldi 8]

This is the same logic VG8 uses for Riverdale and its faulty because you can't observe every pattern of ridership. There are outliers, in a hypothetical scenario: Someone lives in Woodlawn and works at Columbia Pres. It would be faster to take two buses to the 1 train than to the options you gave.

Excuse me but that is simply false because there are many people in Riverdale that drive, so of course every pattern can't be known, but there are certainly common ridership patterns in Riverdale.

[Q43 Floral Park]

Excuse me but that is simply false because there are many people in Riverdale that drive, so of course every pattern can't be known, but there are certainly common ridership patterns in Riverdale.

What was false about my statement?

 

You just reiterated my point that observations based simply off living in an area arent enough to say you know how people commute. As for what's common, you may see one thing happening in Riverdale like overcrowding and a lack of Bx7 service and I observe another such a supersaturation of service with empty artics resulting in 40 footers on other KB routes (especially now that 126 isn't covering the extra runs anymore). We can't say which is the common case without stats but I'm less inclined to believe the opinion of someone who doesn't utilize the service.

 

Do we really need to account for those who drive primarily in a discussion about bus proposals? We aren't suggesting establishing a park & ride or anything conducive to getting them to reduce their carbon footprint. We haven't even really said anything that would result in a loss of parking spaces. If you want to include them nonetheless, I'm in agreement with qjt. people can't use a service that doesn't exist so they will be naturally inclined to drive if that present itself to be less troublesome. On the other hand, I don't agree with the proposal of sending a bus from Woodlawn to Broadway but to say no one wants/needs to get that way is implausible.

 

I'm going to propose some short turns on the Bx3 to the VA Hospital during rush hours. Recently, some of the operators have said that they've had to short turn at KB anyway to make up for lost runs so making it official would probably improve reliability and bus bunching.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

What was false about my statement?

You just reiterated my point that observations based simply off living in an area arent enough to say you know how people commute. As for what's common, you may see one thing happening in Riverdale like overcrowding and a lack of Bx7 service and I observe another such a supersaturation of service with empty artics resulting in 40 footers on other KB routes (especially now that 126 isn't covering the extra runs anymore). We can't say which is the common case without stats but I'm less inclined to believe the opinion of someone who doesn't utilize the service.

Do we really need to account for those who drive primarily in a discussion about bus proposals? We aren't suggesting establishing a park & ride or anything conducive to getting them to reduce their carbon footprint. We haven't even really said anything that would result in a loss of parking spaces. If you want to include them nonetheless, I'm in agreement with qjt. people can't use a service that doesn't exist so they will be naturally inclined to drive if that present itself to be less troublesome. On the other hand, I don't agree with the proposal of sending a bus from Woodlawn to Broadway but to say no one wants/needs to get that way is implausible.

I'm going to propose some short turns on the Bx3 to the VA Hospital during rush hours. Recently, some of the operators have said that they've had to short turn at KB anyway to make up for lost runs so making it official would probably improve reliability and bus bunching.

It's ridiculous and pointless to claim that one doesn't understand travel patterns. Bus routes are established not just from thin air, but also from COMMUNITY input, so don't sit here and tell me that I don't know the needs of my community. Have you been to any transit community board hearings here in Riverdale recently to make such statements? I have. When you do get back to me about what my community needs.

[qjtransitmaster]

Good lord what did I just start?

It's ridiculous and pointless to claim that one doesn't understand travel patterns. Bus routes are established not just from thin air, but also from COMMUNITY input, so don't sit here and tell me that I don't know the needs of my community. Have you been to any transit community board hearings here in Riverdale recently to make such statements? I have. When you do get back to me about what my community needs.

err community meetings can only do so much in order to truly perfect transit is must be data driven like IOT GPS data driven. Plus people can lie especially loud minorities.

Excuse me but that is simply false because there are many people in Riverdale that drive, so of course every pattern can't be known, but there are certainly common ridership patterns in Riverdale.

I think you just strengthened his point. They won't need to drive if a direct transit option existed. Edited January 16, 2015 by qjtransitmaster

[qjtransitmaster]

What was false about my statement?

You just reiterated my point that observations based simply off living in an area arent enough to say you know how people commute. As for what's common, you may see one thing happening in Riverdale like overcrowding and a lack of Bx7 service and I observe another such a supersaturation of service with empty artics resulting in 40 footers on other KB routes (especially now that 126 isn't covering the extra runs anymore). We can't say which is the common case without stats but I'm less inclined to believe the opinion of someone who doesn't utilize the service.

Do we really need to account for those who drive primarily in a discussion about bus proposals? We aren't suggesting establishing a park & ride or anything conducive to getting them to reduce their carbon footprint. We haven't even really said anything that would result in a loss of parking spaces. If you want to include them nonetheless, I'm in agreement with qjt. people can't use a service that doesn't exist so they will be naturally inclined to drive if that present itself to be less troublesome. On the other hand, I don't agree with the proposal of sending a bus from Woodlawn to Broadway but to say no one wants/needs to get that way is implausible.

I'm going to propose some short turns on the Bx3 to the VA Hospital during rush hours. Recently, some of the operators have said that they've had to short turn at KB anyway to make up for lost runs so making it official would probably improve reliability and bus bunching.

true bx7 service is lacking sadly to satisfy lazy people with all the time in the world. Curious how reliable is the bx9 between west farms and marble hill how much faster would it become if it were making LTD stops between those points? I am conflicted about a LTD on that bus so I may need confirmation.

[B35 via Church]

Good lord what did I just start? err community meetings can only do so much in order to truly perfect transit is must be data driven like IOT GPS data driven. Plus people can lie especially loud minorities. I think you just strengthened his point. They won't need to drive if a direct transit option existed.

You do realize the MTA makes their solidified decisions well before any hearings are made......

 

It simply doesn't matter if you have liars in some community falsifying the need for bus service so that they have extra service in their backyard, or those that actually use the things, pour their poor hearts out (to some suit that doesn't wanna be there anyway) b/c service on whatever route(s) in said community flat out suck....

 

I'll end this with 2 words....

Political pull.

[qjtransitmaster]

You do realize the MTA makes their solidified decisions well before any hearings are made......

 

It simply doesn't matter if you have liars in some community falsifying the need for bus service so that they have extra service in their backyard, or those that actually use the things, pour their poor hearts out (to some suit that doesn't wanna be there anyway) b/c service on whatever route(s) in said community flat out suck....

 

I'll end this with 2 words....

Political pull.

plus the high ridership allows New York City MTA to be quite arrogant.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

You do realize the MTA makes their solidified decisions well before any hearings are made......

 

That's why it's called a hearing and not a "listening"!  

[Q43 Floral Park]

true bx7 service is lacking sadly to satisfy lazy people with all the time in the world. Curious how reliable is the bx9 between west farms and marble hill how much faster would it become if it were making LTD stops between those points? I am conflicted about a LTD on that bus so I may need confirmation.

It's something that I've been conflicted about for a while. I use the 9 primarily between Fordham-262 so I can't speak about the route southeast of crotona. I would have to say LTD service would help the rampant bunching but only provide a faster ride west of Sedgwick and east of the concourse. It would have to make every stop between Sedgwick and GC and that's the area where it ends up taking forever.

[qjtransitmaster]

It's something that I've been conflicted about for a while. I use the 9 primarily between Fordham-262 so I can't speak about the route southeast of crotona. I would have to say LTD service would help the rampant bunching but only provide a faster ride west of Sedgwick and east of the concourse. It would have to make every stop between Sedgwick and GC and that's the area where it ends up taking forever.

one way to do it is eliminate bx22 service to Lehman college and reroute service to marble hill MNRR via the station. Or at the medical center then boost service past Fordham. Now bx22& 19 act as bx9's local branches and bx9 becomes full time LTD.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

true bx7 service is lacking sadly to satisfy lazy people with all the time in the world. Curious how reliable is the bx9 between west farms and marble hill how much faster would it become if it were making LTD stops between those points? I am conflicted about a LTD on that bus so I may need confirmation.

Lazy people?? Let's see you walk up and down those massive hills every day...