Riverdale politicians renew calls on MTA improved local bus service

[Q43 Floral Park]

You still didn't give an example of bronxites claiming to be a part of Riverdale like you stated. I'll even take an article with no statistical data, just prove natives are doing it.

 

Riverdale can be comparable to Westchester on a variety of levels but it's still but the Bronx. You're politicians represent the Bronx, you're zoned for Bronx schools, you ride bus routes designated Bx not R. It's not debatable. Saying the Bronx is declining when it's seeing more economic investment than it has in years is the real joke.

 

I didn't compare the communities I compared the routes with data based of schedules and ridership stats off the MTA website. You would argue that but can't provide any data on fare beating so at that point you're making a blatant stereotype about low income communities. You think this joke because you just can't concede to the fact that you're wrong.

 

downtown Riverdale?? Never been there. I'm familiar with North and central but that sounds like a new sub classification you use.

 

You say a new route would be a waste so support your argument with valid reasons. You just go back to the same socioeconomic babble without dissecting any of the remarks I've made, or providing any academic research denoting a strong correlation between race, class and service levels.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Those buses don't carry many riders to begin with, you can't compare the Bx46 to a route like the Bx41. Given it's low ridership (and that the bus is not packed or SRO), you won't see much of people farebeating through the front. That bus also serves the subway, and I'd argue that the bus doesn't have as many amount of people farebeating is higher. Even if every farebeating passenger paid, you wouldn't have a drastic increase in ridership.

The only one comparing the Bx46 to the Bx41 is you. Besides, the the Bx46 is a new route.

[MysteriousBtrain]

The only one comparing the Bx46 to the Bx41 is you. Besides, the the Bx46 is a new route.

I mean, why would you. The Bx46 was meant to get very few riders a day while the Bx41 gets hundreds riders a week

[Q43 Floral Park]

I mean, why would you. The Bx46 was meant to get very few riders a day while the Bx41 gets hundreds riders a week

Is it fair to compare the Bx24 to the Bx46?

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

The only one comparing the Bx46 to the Bx41 is you. Besides, the the Bx46 is a new route.

 

 

I mean, why would you. The Bx46 was meant to get very few riders a day while the Bx41 gets hundreds riders a week

 

In his (VG8) very own words:

 

" The Bx46 meanwhile serves some of the poorest areas of the Bronx and for what it's worth, I'd argue that ridership would be higher on that line if the fare was enforced. The poor areas of the Bronx ESPECIALLY the South Bronx are known to have VERY high rates of farebeating."

 

No it wouldn't.

 

You're insinuating that ridership on the Bx46 would be significantly higher if it didn't have "very high" rates of farebeating (which is where the BX41 comes into to play, because the bus, riders and OP's alike, know that the 41 has a good amount of farebeaters. That is just not the case, and the fact that you mention that the Bx46 is a new route correlates to what I'm trying to say.

 

You can't compare the Bx46 to a Bx41 type of route. It doesn't have the same amount of farebeating as another route. Being a new route doesn't always mean it's not susceptible to high levels of farebeating, but that's far from the case.

 

You can run one bus a day, or 300 a day, and you'll get the same ridership, why?

 

Because it is a route focused to get people to/from Factories in Hunts Point and the market to/from the subway, and in addition to serve the residents. However, most of the residential areas served are within the Bx6 or the subway, which further hurts the chance of the Bx46 gaining ridership. I'm not saying that everyone always pays, but it certainly does not happen the way you make it seem to be.

 

Want higher ridership on the route; extend it somewhere that it'll gain riders or supplement the Bx6.

[MysteriousBtrain]

Is it fair to compare the Bx24 to the Bx46?

Not really because the Bx24 actually gets more riders than you think.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Not really because the Bx24 actually gets more riders than you think.

He's talking about the OLD Bx24 (Riverdale-Fordham), not the Country Club Bus.

[MysteriousBtrain]

He's talking about the OLD Bx24 (Riverdale-Fordham), not the Country Club Bus.

Ok well in that case, I guess it's the same.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

No one Bronx Neighborhood is better than any other. They all have pros, cons and things that make them unique.

 

Quite the opposite...

 

Politicians will say that every neighborhood is better than all other neighborhoods.  Also, every neighborhood has more elderly residents than any other neighborhood, and more disabled residents than any other neighborhood, and more transit-dependent residents than any other neighborhood — and nobody is allowed to fact-check these claims with census data.

[Q43 Floral Park]

He's talking about the OLD Bx24 (Riverdale-Fordham), not the Country Club Bus.

Sorry for the confusion but in the comparison of the bx24 to the bx46, I meant the new one as VG8 brought Country Club into the debate. The new Bx24 has similar operation hours and headways to the bx46. They both connect complexes to train stations and serve residential areas along the way. Considering the fact that bx46 was instated in April 2013 ridership for the year was 154k v. 97k and they ranked overall 176 v. 179, Bx 24 and Bx 46 respectively. we would have to wait for the 2014 data but I would make the hypothesis that the annual ridership levels will be in the same range and that their overall ranks will also be similar. Bringing me back to my argument that socioeconomic status might not be the most relevant factor in ridership levels.

 

Regarding the OP: Do you think more service solely in Riverdale would be most beneficial? Or would the possibility of creating a new route to serve that market and a new market be more beneficial?

[MysteriousBtrain]

Sorry for the confusion but in the comparison of the bx24 to the bx46, I meant the new one as VG8 brought Country Club into the debate. The new Bx24 has similar operation hours and headways to the bx46. They both connect complexes to train stations and serve residential areas along the way. Considering the fact that bx46 was instated in April 2013 ridership for the year was 154k v. 97k and they ranked overall 176 v. 179, Bx 24 and Bx 46 respectively. we would have to wait for the 2014 data but I would make the hypothesis that the annual ridership levels will be in the same range and that their overall ranks will also be similar. Bringing me back to my argument that socioeconomic status might not be the most relevant factor in ridership levels.

 

Regarding the OP: Do you think more service solely in Riverdale would be most beneficial? Or would the possibility of creating a new route to serve that market and a new market be more beneficial?

I actually seen the Bx24 packed a few times, but the Bx46 never will be packed. Therefore, the Bx46 is basically $#!+ compared to the Bx24.

As for your Riverdale bus question, I believe that an existing route should be extended or altered to show more love to Riverdale, preferably the Bx20 or M100.

[qjtransitmaster]

Quite the opposite...

 

Politicians will say that every neighborhood is better than all other neighborhoods.  Also, every neighborhood has more elderly residents than any other neighborhood, and more disabled residents than any other neighborhood, and more transit-dependent residents than any other neighborhood — and nobody is allowed to fact-check these claims with census data.

 same pitiful claims used to defend unneeded bus routes sad ain't it. 

I actually seen the Bx24 packed a few times, but the Bx46 never will be packed. Therefore, the Bx46 is basically $#!+ compared to the Bx24.

As for your Riverdale bus question, I believe that an existing route should be extended or altered to show more love to Riverdale, preferably the Bx20 or M100.

M100 is long enough it needs no extension period.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

You still didn't give an example of bronxites claiming to be a part of Riverdale like you stated. I'll even take an article with no statistical data, just prove natives are doing it.

Riverdale can be comparable to Westchester on a variety of levels but it's still but the Bronx. You're politicians represent the Bronx, you're zoned for Bronx schools, you ride bus routes designated Bx not R. It's not debatable. Saying the Bronx is declining when it's seeing more economic investment than it has in years is the real joke.

I didn't compare the communities I compared the routes with data based of schedules and ridership stats off the MTA website. You would argue that but can't provide any data on fare beating so at that point you're making a blatant stereotype about low income communities. You think this joke because you just can't concede to the fact that you're wrong.

downtown Riverdale?? Never been there. I'm familiar with North and central but that sounds like a new sub classification you use.

You say a new route would be a waste so support your argument with valid reasons. You just go back to the same socioeconomic babble without dissecting any of the remarks I've made, or providing any academic research denoting a strong correlation between race, class and service levels.

Actually all of our representatives represent Riverdale AND large parts of Westchester, and our private schools are frequented by many affluent kids from Westchester, so we have plenty in common with Westchester.

 

Bronxites think everything is Riverdale. Just check what the realtors write about areas clearly NOT in Riverdale.

 

Central Riverdale is the Downtown of Riverdale and has been for years, as the main shopping and dining strips are here. As for local bus service, all that is needed is more buses to and from 231st. It's already been established that Riverdalians travel to and from Manhattan and Westchester, so if anything I would continue to improve Metro-North service at both the Riverdale and Spuyten Duyvil station. I would also expand express bus service to run a little later and add one more bus on the BxM2 and BxM1 at night so that service ran until 01:30 in the morning.

[qjtransitmaster]

Lol at what has become of this place. You 2 need a room.

[Q43 Floral Park]

Just because you've seen the Bx24 packed doesn't mean the Bx46 will never be packed. Unless there's a correlation between the 2 routes, this is a logical fallacy.

 

The M100 didn't work in the past. 263 St or 246 St to 125-1av is a long route, one that would only be feasible with LTD service (it doesn't appear to run frequently enough to meet the guidelines). More so, it would be caught in the same Broadway traffic that's tying up the Bx7 service now. Same goes for the Bx20 and adding more service on the route won't put anymore buses on Riverdale Av. You could extend it to 263 but then you still aren't increasing service on Riverdale av bet 231 & 239 which is imperative. The original article basically implies that the current budget issues won't allow them to add more service solely within Riverdale.

 

Please tell me in detail what's wrong with a new Bx37?

NB terminal: Mosholu av-Broadway

SB terminal: Fordham Plaza

Routing: Mosholu av-256 St-Riverdale Av-231 St-Bailey Av-Sedgwick Av-Fordham Rd

Rush hours only 15 min headways

Pros: It connects Upstairs and Downstairs in North Riverdale, doesn't run through Fieldston so they can't complain, it gives a majority of Riverdale Av 4 extra buses an hour, it doesn't run on Broadway or into Manhattan, alternate to the Bx9, Bailey south of 231 gets a direct connection to the 1,4 and D.

Con: the worst case scenario is that it gets stuck in Fordham traffic, extra coverage might not be necessary on W Fordham

[Cait Sith]

Sorry but Riverdale is not like the Bronx

 

But Riverdale is IN The Bronx!

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The original article basically implies that the current budget issues won't allow them to add more service solely within Riverdale.

Please tell me in detail what's wrong with a new Bx37?

NB terminal: Mosholu av-Broadway

SB terminal: Fordham Plaza

Routing: Mosholu av-256 St-Riverdale Av-231 St-Bailey Av-Sedgwick Av-Fordham Rd

Rush hours only 15 min headways

Pros: It connects Upstairs and Downstairs in North Riverdale, doesn't run through Fieldston so they can't complain, it gives a majority of Riverdale Av 4 extra buses an hour, it doesn't run on Broadway or into Manhattan, alternate to the Bx9, Bailey south of 231 gets a direct connection to the 1,4 and D.

Con: the worst case scenario is that it gets stuck in Fordham traffic, extra coverage might not be necessary on W Fordham

Well here's my question... If you think the route would be so successful, identify who would be using it?

 

I can use my residence as an example. Two or my neighbors drive. Several others don't have a car but carpool or are picked up. I take the express buses and Metro-North. I haven't seen anyone here on my block using the local bus, and this in Central Riverdale where folks can walk to just about everything, so who is supposed to be using the bus? For what it's worth, the Bx20 is practically empty until it reaches Independence Avenue and Henry Hudson Parkway West. Granted those above 232nd and Henry Hudson Parkway have the Bx7 nearby, but still. The bus serves the in Inwood.

 

The article implies that, but if necessary I could see funding allocated to the to address the problem. Other politicians have done this in the past, and there have certainly been more short turned buses added here in RiRiverdale precisely due to the politicians lobbying for them.

[qjtransitmaster]

Just because you've seen the Bx24 packed doesn't mean the Bx46 will never be packed. Unless there's a correlation between the 2 routes, this is a logical fallacy.

The M100 didn't work in the past. 263 St or 246 St to 125-1av is a long route, one that would only be feasible with LTD service (it doesn't appear to run frequently enough to meet the guidelines). More so, it would be caught in the same Broadway traffic that's tying up the Bx7 service now. Same goes for the Bx20 and adding more service on the route won't put anymore buses on Riverdale Av. You could extend it to 263 but then you still aren't increasing service on Riverdale av bet 231 & 239 which is imperative. The original article basically implies that the current budget issues won't allow them to add more service solely within Riverdale.

Please tell me in detail what's wrong with a new Bx37?

NB terminal: Mosholu av-Broadway

SB terminal: Fordham Plaza

Routing: Mosholu av-256 St-Riverdale Av-231 St-Bailey Av-Sedgwick Av-Fordham Rd

Rush hours only 15 min headways

Pros: It connects Upstairs and Downstairs in North Riverdale, doesn't run through Fieldston so they can't complain, it gives a majority of Riverdale Av 4 extra buses an hour, it doesn't run on Broadway or into Manhattan, alternate to the Bx9, Bailey south of 231 gets a direct connection to the 1,4 and D.

Con: the worst case scenario is that it gets stuck in Fordham traffic, extra coverage might not be necessary on W Fordham

Isn't that the same as a rerouted Bx9 off Broadway? Minus redundancy with ?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Isn't that the same as a rerouted Bx9 off Broadway? Minus redundancy with ?

Redundancy of the how?  The Bx9 only runs under the from 242nd and Broadway down to 225th and Broadway. 

[Q43 Floral Park]

VG8: "I haven't seen anyone here on my block using the local bus, and this in Central Riverdale where folks can walk to just about everything, so who is supposed to be using the bus?"

 

Well this contradicts what you previously stated...by this logic there's no need the extra bx7/10 service at all because they aren't using it now. The only way you can use your block alone as an example for Riverdale travel patterns is if you prove that your block is statistically the norm for the community which is why I said ridership stats are necessary.

 

I've already explained the market but seeing as you don't seem to throughly read these posts, I'll say it again:

1. you complained about Fieldston having a bus again in the past so I said it would run solely on Mosholu av (that hill is a nightmare)

2. Riverdale Av gets 4 more buses an hour (bet 256-231) that right here helps the bx7 riders on riverdale av get to the 1.

3. It gives riders along Bailey south of 231 a new route and direct connections to the 1,4 and D (those blocks are rather long)

4. it eases overcrowding on the bx9 and avoids the traffic on Broadway/doesn't go into Manhattan where the current bottleneck is messing up Bx7 service.

The only potential hiccup would be the traffic on Fordham but assuming the deegan isn't a parking lot it would make up the time on Bailey.

 

Pick apart each reason I gave if need be, but I want a logically sound argument for why this service would fail and not the classist argument you use time and time again but fail to adequately support.

 

You bringing the bx20 back into this when we've already determined altering its service won't help bx7 riders isn't worth a thing.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

VG8: "I haven't seen anyone here on my block using the local bus, and this in Central Riverdale where folks can walk to just about everything, so who is supposed to be using the bus?"

 

Well this contradicts what you previously stated...by this logic there's no need the extra bx7/10 service at all because they aren't using it now. The only way you can use your block alone as an example for Riverdale travel patterns is if you prove that your block is statistically the norm for the community which is why I said ridership stats are necessary.

 

I've already explained the market but seeing as you don't seem to throughly read these posts, I'll say it again:

1. you complained about Fieldston having a bus again in the past so I said it would run solely on Mosholu av (that hill is a nightmare)

2. Riverdale Av gets 4 more buses an hour (bet 256-231) that right here helps the bx7 riders on riverdale av get to the 1.

3. It gives riders along Bailey south of 231 a new route and direct connections to the 1,4 and D (those blocks are rather long)

4. it eases overcrowding on the bx9 and avoids the traffic on Broadway/doesn't go into Manhattan where the current bottleneck is messing up Bx7 service.

The only potential hiccup would be the traffic on Fordham but assuming the deegan isn't a parking lot it would make up the time on Bailey.

 

Pick apart each reason I gave if need be, but I want a logically sound argument for why this service would fail and not the classist argument you use time and time again but fail to adequately support.

 

You bringing the bx20 back into this when we've already determined altering its service won't help bx7 riders isn't worth a thing.

I said earlier that local bus usage is particularly high down in Spuyten Duyvil for the Bx10 and Bx20, and for the Bx7 I believe that east of Riverdale Avenue uses the Bx7 more than west of it.  One of the reasons being the amount of college students east of Riverdale Avenue, amongst other folks.

 

If you're calling for a supplementary route, why not just add that service where it WILL be used by adding more Bx7 and Bx10 shuttles?  This thread is about RIVERDALE and transportation service IN RIVERDALE.  For some reason you keep bringing up those proposals when the article I posted clearly states where the need is.

[Q43 Floral Park]

Simple, based off the information provided by the article I don't believe there's currently enough ridership to justify an additional service boost in Riverdale alone. How do these politicians define "good service"? Is it the same definition that MTA uses? At a bare minimum tell me what % service has been increased by since adding these 3 runs to the Bx7 before saying it's not good enough. I don't have any information on actual headways for the bx7/10/20 v. Realtime waits, %of buses at max capacity during peak, distribution of ridership along the routes in Riverdale to tell me where the issue lies exactly. You said there's heavy ridership in Spuyten Duyvil but no ones using buses in Central so that would imply Extra runs on the Bx7/10 would be "practically empty" (your words not mine) north of 239 which is a waste.The fact that these politicians even suggest making M100/Bx3 route extensions for Riverdales benefit tells me this will end up being a scenario of "robbing Peter to pay Paul" as it would destroy reliability on those 2 routes.

 

You want more people using mass transit, you have to open up a new market.

[paulrivera]

Yea, the Bx3's reliability is already spotty and there was a reason the M100 was split into two...

 

Why not make the Bx20 more useful? Or why not expand the Rail Link concept and have NYCT pay a contractor to feed riders to the train like how Metro-North pays a contractor to feed riders to the Hudson Line?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Simple, based off the information provided by the article I don't believe there's currently enough ridership to justify an additional service boost in Riverdale alone. How do these politicians define "good service"? Is it the same definition that MTA uses? At a bare minimum tell me what % service has been increased by since adding these 3 runs to the Bx7 before saying it's not good enough. I don't have any information on actual headways for the bx7/10/20 v. Realtime waits, %of buses at max capacity during peak, distribution of ridership along the routes in Riverdale to tell me where the issue lies exactly. You said there's heavy ridership in Spuyten Duyvil but no ones using buses in Central so that would imply Extra runs on the Bx7/10 would be "practically empty" (your words not mine) north of 239 which is a waste.The fact that these politicians even suggest making M100/Bx3 route extensions for Riverdales benefit tells me this will end up being a scenario of "robbing Peter to pay Paul" as it would destroy reliability on those 2 routes.

You want more people using mass transit, you have to open up a new market.

That's correct because past 239th you hit areas that are less density like Fieldston where folks are more likely to drive. However, you still have those who may need the service in North Riverdale and at the Yonkers border.

Yea, the Bx3's reliability is already spotty and there was a reason the M100 was split into two...

 

Why not make the Bx20 more useful? Or why not expand the Rail Link concept and have NYCT pay a contractor to feed riders to the train like how Metro-North pays a contractor to feed riders to the Hudson Line?

Don't be ridiculous. Why should some person paying $2.50 get that sort of service? When I use Metro-North during the week, if I use a pay-per-ride card for the Hudson Rail Link, it's $2.50 for that plus $8.25 for Metro-North, thus $10.75 one way, which is basically more than 4 times the base fare.

[MysteriousBtrain]

Don't be ridiculous. Why should some person paying $2.50 get that sort of service? When I use Metro-North during the week, if I use a pay-per-ride card for the Hudson Rail Link, it's $2.50 for that plus $8.25 for Metro-North, thus $10.75 one way, which is basically more than 4 times the base fare.

Eastern Queens got the same BS with the LIRR. If they could do it in Eastern Queens, they can do it in Riverdale. The Q42 is a route made to connect to the LIRR and it's doing fine.