Riverdale politicians renew calls on MTA improved local bus service

[qjtransitmaster]

I know... providing a whole entire region of a borough with bus service for which the demand clearly exists, is a hassle.....

 

The M100 doesn't do enough for those folks (hence the usage the Bx7 gets north of Inwood), and if it's anything that's a hassle, it's having to ascend to & descend from the subway, when those same people's needs are met easier by simply boarding a bus & disembarking a bus at street level....

 

What you're really implicating with that ridiculous remark is that Washington Hgts. doesn't need bus service to the Bronx, due to the existence of the subway..... That (lack of) logic is same type of short-sightedness that have people pissed off with the MTA as it is....

 Way to try to f*ck over riders there....

useless if the service is rarely on time. If on time performance suffers that defeats the purpose of the one seat ride.

[MysteriousBtrain]

If anything, I'd bet on the Bx7A proposal, but in reverse.

 

Remember that, prior to March 1989, the Bx7 was rush hours only, so the "Riverdale Avenue bypass" (between 231st and 239th) had no non-peak service.  I could easily see a return to that with the Bx7 "main line" rerouted via Kappock Street and Bx7A trips using the "bypass" (maybe during daylight hours only).

If the Riverdale Avenue bypass has that low of a ridership, why not reroute the Bx7 to match the Bx20 at all times?

[B35 via Church]

useless if the service is rarely on time. If on time performance suffers that defeats the purpose of the one seat ride.

Enough with the rhetoric; all it's exposing is that you don't have a clue as to what you're talking about with the route.... The Bx7 in Washington Heights & Inwood isn't getting shunned due to OTP issues on any large enough scale, and it's ridiculous that you're using that as a talking point for all the riders that use that route in upper Manhattan... You're on here with this as if Bx7's have low utilization in Manhattan due to the proximity (by way of parallelization) of the subway - Which, they quite frankly, don't..... Sorry to burst your bubble of stupidity with reality.

 

The fact of the matter is, the service on that end sees high usage (and has been for the longest), so there is no defeating of any purpose.... Which debunks this *buses are so late that they should be cut from Manhattan* notion you're implicating with this suggestion.....

 

* Even if the route was suffering in terms of OTP, it isn't a reason to outright cut the route on that end.....

 

It's one thing if you're talking about a split (reliability was the main factor as to why the MTA went ahead & broke up the old Red Hook - Queens Plaza B61), but to cut a significant chunk of a route for that reason, downright illogical.....

 

Nothing you've said thus far justifies such a drastic alteration to the route... Nothing.

 

We could use more inter-borough bus routes in our system, not less.... Way to try to bastardize a route that sees well over 10k riders weekday btw.... Which segues back to Riverdale's needs - What you're suggesting won't help them either - since there is no way in hell the MTA would keep current levels of service on the Bx7 if it ran from 263rd to 231st in its totality.....

 

Cut the bus in Manhattan because the train is there.... Everything with you is SPEED SPEED SPEED....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I mean, it was reduced to a rush hour only route. Unless the gets a load of money soon, The Bx20 is pretty much useless at this point, likely to become another Bx55.

  

That means those Spuyten Dyvil residents will just have the Bx10. Don't they prefer the over the ?

It is not useless. It is used and the reason it was kept is because without it people in Spuyten Duyvil would face a two fare commute before they reached the train, in addition to a longer schlepp to the . There is no other solution due to the very hilly geography in that area, and as a compromise the Bx20 runs weekdays only during the rush.

[Quill Depot]

*eyeroll*

 

Way more important things to deal with first.

 

 

Elected officials in the northwest Bronx are calling on the MTA to improve Bx7 and Bx10 bus service in the neighborhood.

 

In the Northwest Bronx there are not. Please read it all before making assumptions.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Thanks for the history lesson. That's a formula for unreliability. From East Harlem to Riverdale. What can you do with the Bx20? There's no desire to restore weekend service I think...

As Gotham said people in Riverdale are looking to get to the . Nothing more nothing less. There is no reason for them to travel to Harlem as the demographics of Riverdale are primarily White (mainly Irish and Jewish, with other ethnicities thrown in). That's the primarily reason that ALL BxM express buses stop at 125th street but the Riverdale express buses don't and why there is a West Side and East Side express bus. Both the Upper East Side and Upper West Side have large Jewish populations as does Riverdale. Additionally there are a lot of Manhattanites that move to Riverdale from the Upper East Side and Upper West Side, hence the connection.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

As Gotham said people in Riverdale are looking to get to the . Nothing more nothing less. There is no reason for them to travel to Harlem as the demographics of Riverdale are primarily White (mainly Irish and Jewish, with other ethnicities thrown in). That's the primarily reason that ALL BxM express buses stop at 125th street but the Riverdale express buses don't and why there is a West Side and East Side express bus. Both the Upper East Side and Upper West Side have large Jewish populations as does Riverdale. Additionally there are a lot of Manhattanites that move to Riverdale from the Upper East Side and Upper West Side, hence the connection.

Well, what about the BxM3? I mean, I think that's pretty much the exception to this rule. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Well, what about the BxM3? I mean, I think that's pretty much the exception to this rule. 

The BxM3 ends in Yonkers not Riverdale.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

The BxM3 ends in Yonkers not Riverdale.

The BxM3 serves part of Riverdale, and while that's not what I was trying to imply, I was referring to demographics. I thought the BxM3 passes through several areas (in which demographic are of mainly whites), which led to me asking such question.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The BxM3 serves part of Riverdale, and while that's not what I was trying to imply, I was referring to demographics. I thought the BxM3 passes through several areas (in which demographic are of mainly whites), which led to me asking such question.

The area along Broadway does have mainly whites, but it's more mixed overall. It's also not the splashy part of Riverdale so it's a completely different set up. That is why when someone says they live in Riverdale we always ask where. Along Broadway is "downstairs" Riverdale not only geographically but economically as well. Not poor down there per se, but overall the money is uphill or "upstairs" Riverdale. The prices are cheaper along Broadway because the views are up the hill and along the Hudson. All of those big mansions are up the hill in Fieldston near to me.

 

The Jews are mainly in the Southern and Central part of Riverdale, including Fieldston since that's where the synagogues are and the bigger houses since they usually have large families. A lot of the newer apartments here are large (3 - 5 bedrooms) precisely for that reason as they are marketed to Jewish families with Jewish kitchens as well.

[paulrivera]

Where were these people 20 years ago when they had the Bx24 from Riverdale to Fordham?

 

Sure no one rode from end to end, but it was a line that riders could have used to get to at least the train... Man, that line was actually ahead of its time now that I think about it.

 

Edit: Blast from the past from Google, they lost the Bx1 up there too?

[MysteriousBtrain]

Where were these people 20 years ago when they had the Bx24 from Riverdale to Fordham?

 

Sure no one rode from end to end, but it was a line that riders could have used to get to at least the train... Man, that line was actually ahead of its time now that I think about it.

 

Edit: Blast from the past from Google, they lost the Bx1 up there too?

1. Which map is this because it looks very interesting?

2. The Bx1 in Riverdale and Bx24 route were discontinued because no one really rode them anymore, especially when the Bx10 was introduced during this time. Nowadays, Riverdale and Spuyten Dyvil residents want service to the and maybe even the and lines.

3. Is that a hidden X51, X61, or X81 on the lower right side of the map?

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

1. Which map is this because it looks very interesting?

2. The Bx1 in Riverdale and Bx24 route were discontinued because no one really rode them anymore, especially when the Bx10 was introduced during this time. Nowadays, Riverdale and Spuyten Dyvil residents want service to the and maybe even the and lines.

3. Is that a hidden X51, X61, or X81 on the lower right side of the map?

Its an X61. The X61 was essentially a downtown variant of the BxM3, before the BxM3 was created IIRC. Took the exact same route from the city line to Manhattan.

With the creation of the BxM18, it was deemed that it was not needed.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Where were these people 20 years ago when they had the Bx24 from Riverdale to Fordham?

 

Sure no one rode from end to end, but it was a line that riders could have used to get to at least the train... Man, that line was actually ahead of its time now that I think about it.

 

Edit: Blast from the past from Google, they lost the Bx1 up there too?

Understand that the demographics of Riverdale have changed quite a bit in the last 20 or so years. Riverdale back in the day was a very WASPY neighborhood. JFK lived in Riverdale not too far from me for a few years, and in fact you can still see some English (WASPS) folks up here. I hear a few British accents on the BxM1 from time to time. As they started building the massive apartment buildings and coverting them to co-ops and condos, the demographics started to shift. More Jews started to move in as they were fleeing neighborhoods in the Bronx such as Co-Op City and areas along the Concourse. Then you had the Russian Jews and the Israeli Jews that started to move in, along with more Irish folks from Inwood and Kingsbridge. All of those demographic changes had an impact on bus service. The WASPS that lived in Fieldston and other parts of Riverdale originally would not allow Jewish families into those areas, but that changed as time went on. You also had Dominicans and other Latinos moving en masse to Kingsbridge from Washington Heights mainly to escape the higher rents, so all of these changes had an impact on Riverdale and how the neighborhood is today. Today the Irish Americans mainly dominate North Riverdale, though the Jews have been increasing in number there. The Jews dominate a lot of Riverdale west of the Parkway and Fieldston, and then you have your whites from Manhattan that move here, some Jewish or other ethnic whites. Some WASPS still remain in the most exclusive parts, and the Irish Americans, Italian Americans, Greek Americans, etc. also live here, though the Greeks and Italians are in small numbers. The young folks here tend to be either college students or families that moved from Manhattan for more space.

 

There is also a small Asian group, compromised mainly of Japanese and Koreans. Japanese were brought to Riverdale for years and settled and there are still quite a few of them here, hence the number of Japanese restaurants here. Latinos also have been moving here. Argentines, Dominicans, Puerto Ricans (mainly lighter skinned Latinos or at least "white looking" in appearance), as well as Spanish folks from Spain, though not in large numbers (The Spanish that is).

 

The blacks here are very small in number as has been the case historically, as these areas have been heavily white west of Broadway, with Latinos east of Broadway.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

Its an X61. The X61 was essentially a downtown variant of the BxM3, before the BxM3 was created IIRC. Took the exact same route from the city line to Manhattan.

With the creation of the BxM18, it was deemed that it was not needed.

 

No, the BxM3 and BxM18 already existed by the time the X61 started up. 

 

From 262nd Street, the X61 followed the BxM3 path onto the Deegan, then over the Third Avenue Bridge, down the FDR Drive, and through a counterclockwise loop using lower Broadway and Water Street. PM trips started at City Hall and did the same loop before heading up the FDR Drive.  What killed the X61 was a later ban on buses along parts of the FDR Drive; using local streets added at least 30 minutes to the one-way trip and turned off riders.

 

After the X61 died, NYDCOT ordered Liberty Lines to add a stop on the BxM18 at 26th Street for transfers from the BxM3. That privilege has since been extended to other Bronx express routes and, more recently under MTA Bus, to Queens express routes.

[Q43 Floral Park]

Understand that the demographics of Riverdale have changed quite a bit in the last 20 or so years. Riverdale back in the day was a very WASPY neighborhood. JFK lived in Riverdale not too far from me for a few years, and in fact you can still see some English (WASPS) folks up here. I hear a few British accents on the BxM1 from time to time. As they started building the massive apartment buildings and coverting them to co-ops and condos, the demographics started to shift. More Jews started to move in as they were fleeing neighborhoods in the Bronx such as Co-Op City and areas along the Concourse. Then you had the Russian Jews and the Israeli Jews that started to move in, along with more Irish folks from Inwood and Kingsbridge. All of those demographic changes had an impact on bus service. The WASPS that lived in Fieldston and other parts of Riverdale originally would not allow Jewish families into those areas, but that changed as time went on. You also had Dominicans and other Latinos moving en masse to Kingsbridge from Washington Heights mainly to escape the higher rents, so all of these changes had an impact on Riverdale and how the neighborhood is today. Today the Irish Americans mainly dominate North Riverdale, though the Jews have been increasing in number there. The Jews dominate a lot of Riverdale west of the Parkway and Fieldston, and then you have your whites from Manhattan that move here, some Jewish or other ethnic whites. Some WASPS still remain in the most exclusive parts, and the Irish Americans, Italian Americans, Greek Americans, etc. also live here, though the Greeks and Italians are in small numbers. The young folks here tend to be either college students or families that moved from Manhattan for more space.

 

There is also a small Asian group, compromised mainly of Japanese and Koreans. Japanese were brought to Riverdale for years and settled and there are still quite a few of them here, hence the number of Japanese restaurants here. Latinos also have been moving here. Argentines, Dominicans, Puerto Ricans (mainly lighter skinned Latinos or at least "white looking" in appearance), as well as Spanish folks from Spain, though not in large numbers (The Spanish that is).

 

The blacks here are very small in number as has been the case historically, as these areas have been heavily white west of Broadway, with Latinos east of Broadway.

We've had this discussion before.

 

I can think of a multitude of reasons for why no one said anything about the Bx24 being cut in 95 and none of them have to do with race. the poor head ways, service hours, the fact that it was completely overlapped on most sections of its route, Bailey av the only standalone portion had nothing along it to truly generate ridership etc. I ask you, can you prove that there's a statistically significant correlation between the racial composition of Riverdale and the existence of the Bx24? If yes, back it up with data. Otherwise you didn't answer Paul's question and these are just your observations of the changes in racial composition of a neighborhood you've been a transplant in for less than a decade, nearly 2 decades after the route was cut and frankly they are irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

 

In a hypothetical scenario, if the old Bx24 existed now with adequate headways it would actually have a better market now. another route connecting 231 and Fordham would alleviate crowding on the Bx9. you could also run it to 207 via Bailey and Fordham replacing the Bx20. It wouldn't get caught in Broadway traffic or cut Spuyten Duyvil and Riverdale from the A.

 

The Bx3 could be extended west to Irwin Av.

[paulrivera]

1. Which map is this because it looks very interesting?

2. The Bx1 in Riverdale and Bx24 route were discontinued because no one really rode them anymore, especially when the Bx10 was introduced during this time. Nowadays, Riverdale and Spuyten Dyvil residents want service to the and maybe even the and lines.

3. Is that a hidden X51, X61, or X81 on the lower right side of the map?

1. Looks to be mid-late 80's

2. IMO the Bx20 and Bx24 could have been merged to accomplish linking Riverdale to the and the , via the existing Bx20 route between Riverdale and Inwood and via the Bx12 route between Inwood and Fordham. They probably won't do it now, but hindsight is always 20/20...

3. That is indeed the X61.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

We've had this discussion before.

 

I can think of a multitude of reasons for why no one said anything about the Bx24 being cut in 95 and none of them have to do with race. the poor head ways, service hours, the fact that it was completely overlapped on most sections of its route, Bailey av the only standalone portion had nothing along it to truly generate ridership etc. I ask you, can you prove that there's a statistically significant correlation between the racial composition of Riverdale and the existence of the Bx24? If yes, back it up with data. Otherwise you didn't answer Paul's question and these are just your observations of the changes in racial composition of a neighborhood you've been a transplant in for less than a decade, nearly 2 decades after the route was cut and frankly they are irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

 

In a hypothetical scenario, if the old Bx24 existed now with adequate headways it would actually have a better market now. another route connecting 231 and Fordham would alleviate crowding on the Bx9. you could also run it to 207 via Bailey and Fordham replacing the Bx20. It wouldn't get caught in Broadway traffic or cut Spuyten Duyvil and Riverdale from the A.

 

The Bx3 could be extended west to Irwin Av.

I honestly don't see how you can argue that the demographics of a neighborhood don't influence the places that people travel to.  The demographics of EVERY neighborhood have an impact on where people travel.

 

As for this extension of the Bx3, we've also had that conversation before, and if you're talking about extending it along 238th west to Irwin, there is no need for that, as that area is completely residential and mainly made of home owners who drive or take the express bus.

 

We don't need to use the Bx24 for the example.  We can use the Bx10 for the example.  Show me how many Riverdale residents use the Bx10 past 231st street for the train?  The people using the Bx10 past there are mainly nursing home workers who don't live in Riverdale and live in places like Norwood in the Bronx.  It doesn't take rocket science to see the travel patterns of different neighborhoods.  I can point to a number of other routes in the city that are declining or increasing as well and explain why.  Regardless of how long I've been here, I've been here long enough to know what I'm talking about.  I use public transit here practically every day and see who is riding what and where.

 

I'd like to know how you've arrived at the conclusion that the Bx3 can be extended west to Irwin Avenue?  Based on what evidence?

[Q43 Floral Park]

the fact that you think im arguing that racial demographics don't influence transportation needs tells me you don't throughly read my posts. I said prove from a sociological standpoint that the racial demographics of Riverdale at the time were significantly correlated with regards to the specific elimination of the Bx24. Otherwise there are more prevalent factors and race doesn't need to be brought to the table here.

 

How can we use the bx10 as an example in a discussion on the bx24 when they were 2 separate entities and clearly served different markets east of 231 St (Fordham v. Norwood) ?

 

Even better you want me to show you how many Riverdalians use the bx10 east of 231 but you can't prove to me with stats that it's mainly nursing home employees using the route east of 231.

 

The politician in the original article suggested extending the bx3 west along 238 St and someone else asked where to. prior to MC putting in a new building on Irwin you could have running it 238-Irwin- MC Pkwy- HH Pkwy to 246 but that would have made reliability awful on the route. Given that Irwin is the last street before the steps that would clearly be the only place the bx3 could be extended to. I'm not saying that it's a needed extension simply that It's possible.

 

you're too focused on segregating Riverdale with boundaries you hear from others/make up (like when you tried to say the area around Irwin/238 might as well be Riverdale when it's clearly Kingsbridge). the NW Bronx as a whole needs improved service. to remain on topic I'll suggest that the Bx24 be reinstated as the Bx37 (with similar headways to the Bx20). Same terminals, this time run it on Riverdale Av as opposed to HH Pkw. Bailey Av gets a route, the Bx9 gets some coverage between Fordham and the shopping plazas on 225/230, Riverdale Av and HHP get 2 routes each during rush hours so everyone wins.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

the fact that you think im arguing that racial demographics don't influence transportation needs tells me you don't throughly read my posts. I said prove from a sociological standpoint that the racial demographics of Riverdale at the time were significantly correlated with regards to the specific elimination of the Bx24. Otherwise there are more prevalent factors and race doesn't need to be brought to the table here.

 

How can we use the bx10 as an example in a discussion on the bx24 when they were 2 separate entities and clearly served different markets east of 231 St (Fordham v. Norwood) ?

 

Even better you want me to show you how many Riverdalians use the bx10 east of 231 but you can't prove to me with stats that it's mainly nursing home employees using the route east of 231.

 

The politician in the original article suggested extending the bx3 west along 238 St and someone else asked where to. prior to MC putting in a new building on Irwin you could have running it 238-Irwin- MC Pkwy- HH Pkwy to 246 but that would have made reliability awful on the route. Given that Irwin is the last street before the steps that would clearly be the only place the bx3 could be extended to. I'm not saying that it's a needed extension simply that It's possible.

 

you're too focused on segregating Riverdale with boundaries you hear from others/make up (like when you tried to say the area around Irwin/238 might as well be Riverdale when it's clearly Kingsbridge). the NW Bronx as a whole needs improved service. to remain on topic I'll suggest that the Bx24 be reinstated as the Bx37 (with similar headways to the Bx20). Same terminals, this time run it on Riverdale Av as opposed to HH Pkw. Bailey Av gets a route, the Bx9 gets some coverage between Fordham and the shopping plazas on 225/230, Riverdale Av and HHP get 2 routes each during rush hours so everyone wins.

That's pretty easy to do because #1 if the the nursing home workers don't board the short turned Bx10's to 231st then that means they're going east of that.   They ALWAYS board the buses going to Norwood.  #2 there have been articles which have stated that a large majority of Riverdalians only go down to Kingsbridge to take the train and otherwise they don't head down there, so if they're not going down to Kingsbridge outside of for the train, then they why would they be going to points further east?  There are a mirage of doctors within Riverdale, so one does not need to leave the area for medical attention, and aside from that New York Presbyterian is probably the closest hospital which is down by Inwood.  I know what I'm talking about because I'm in touch with our local leaders about our transportation needs regularly, and the first thing that is brought up about local bus service here is providing more shuttle service to 231st street because that's what is needed... More local bus service to the train.  While there are some Riverdalians that do use the Bx10 to points east such as the train, but they are a small minority to say the least.

 

 

Hilltoppers appear cool to new shopping centers

 

By Shant Shahrigain

Posted 8/28/14

With the start of the school year just around the corner, Riverdalian Nina Velazquez will be heading to the West 225th Street Target and other Kingsbridge stores to do her children’s shopping. She is among the few Riverdalians who regularly shop in Kingsbridge — a situation unlikely to change with the opening of two large malls on Broadway later this year.

“It’s really good for that neighborhood,” Ms. Velazquez, 53, said of the new malls. “It’s murder to drive, and we’re going to have stuff at our fingertips.”

Still, many Riverdalians prefer the drive to Westchester — or a walk down Johnson Avenue — to the short trip to Kingsbridge’s shopping options.

 

http://www.riverdalepress.com/stories/Hilltoppers-appear-cool-to-new-shopping-centers,55035

 

My point about demographics having an impact on where buses go is true regardless of how many years ago we're talking or what route or neighborhood is mentioned.  It seems as if you on the one hand argue that you aren't saying that demographics play a part in where bus routes go, but on the other, you argue that they don't play a significant role.  Make up your mind...

 

And since you claim that there were other factors that affected the Bx24, let's hear them.  This is from someone that has probably never even lived here nor anywhere near the area for that matter such as Upper Manhattan.  

 

As for me stating that the area around Irwin/238 might as well be Riverdale when it's clearly Kingsbridge, that's because it's true.  Even the calls the area "Riverdale".  Look at the Bx3 routing.  It says "Riverdale - 238th street".  Yes the area is Kingsbridge, but west of Broadway in that area has always aligned itself more with Riverdale, even though it is Kingsbridge.  Walk along Broadway and you will see signage with Riverdale in it.  There's even "Riverdale Crossings" for the shopping area, none of which is Riverdale.

[Q43 Floral Park]

That's pretty easy to do because #1 if the the nursing home workers don't board the short turned Bx10's to 231st then that means they're going east of that.   They ALWAYS board the buses going to Norwood.  #2 there have been articles which have stated that a large majority of Riverdalians only go down to Kingsbridge to take the train and otherwise they don't head down there, so if they're not going down to Kingsbridge outside of for the train, then they why would they be going to points further east?  There are a mirage of doctors within Riverdale, so one does not need to leave the area for medical attention, and aside from that New York Presbyterian is probably the closest hospital which is down by Inwood.  I know what I'm talking about because I'm in touch with our local leaders about our transportation needs regularly, and the first thing that is brought up about local bus service here is providing more shuttle service to 231st street because that's what is needed... More local bus service to the train.  While there are some Riverdalians that do use the Bx10 to points east such as the train, but they are a small minority to say the least.

 

 

 

http://www.riverdalepress.com/stories/Hilltoppers-appear-cool-to-new-shopping-centers,55035

 

My point about demographics having an impact on where buses go is true regardless of how many years ago we're talking or what route or neighborhood is mentioned.  It seems as if you on the one hand argue that you aren't saying that demographics play a part in where bus routes go, but on the other, you argue that they don't play a significant role.  Make up your mind...

 

And since you claim that there were other factors that affected the Bx24, let's hear them.  This is from someone that has probably never even lived here nor anywhere near the area for that matter such as Upper Manhattan.  

As for me stating that the area around Irwin/238 might as well be Riverdale when it's clearly Kingsbridge, that's because it's true.  Even the calls the area "Riverdale".  Look at the Bx3 routing.  It says "Riverdale - 238th street".  Yes the area is Kingsbridge, but west of Broadway in that area has always aligned itself more with Riverdale, even though it is Kingsbridge.  Walk along Broadway and you will see signage with Riverdale in it.  There's even "Riverdale Crossings" for the shopping area, none of which is Riverdale.

My mind is quite clear regarding this matter but I'll clarify:

 

I've been a Northwest Bronxite for a majority of my life and I rode the route when it existed. I've given you a multitude of explanations for why the Bx24 didn't work in previous discussions we've had: the hours of service were useless (The Q79 had better service) , it ran on 40 min headways, the only standalone portion was along Bailey Avenue which at the time had nothing that could generate decent ridership. when the UH Bridge was out the Bx12 overlapped it to 225 so it only really served Fieldston and Bailey bet 225 and Albany Cr alone. So I'm asking you is race really the most relevant factor in the elimination of the Bx24?

 

I don't see any statistics supporting your argument about the Bx10 ridership nor do I see any showing the percentage of Riverdalians shopping in adjacent communities vs. shopping in Manhattan/Westchester in that article. The author also made an error, Target and 225 St are in Marble Hill not Kingsbridge, which leads me to my next point: most of the people have the boundaries of Bronx neighborhoods misconstrued. For example: MTA says the Bx32 ends in Kingsbridge but it's actually Kingsbridge Heights.

 

Regarding the Bx3: "Might as well be" and actually being are two different things and you are well aware of that but for the sake of an argument I'll allow you to annex the area west of Broadway into Riverdale and still prove you wrong about the Bx3 sign. Both the N/B terminal and S/B first stop are east of Broadway so it would still be Kingsbridge by that logic. The signs along Bway display Kingsbridge BID up to 238 St so you're wrong there and weve both agreed in the past it shouldn't be called Riverdale Crossing (it's a marketing ploy clearly). you might want to make up your mind.. One minute you're raving about the exclusivity of Riverdale (Upstairs v. Downstairs, fieldston v. Central) and the next you're attempting to annex what you deem to be the acceptable portions of other Bronx neighborhoods.

 

Any comments on the Bx37?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

My mind is quite clear regarding this matter but I'll clarify:

 

I've been a Northwest Bronxite for a majority of my life and I rode the route when it existed. I've given you a multitude of explanations for why the Bx24 didn't work in previous discussions we've had: the hours of service were useless (The Q79 had better service) , it ran on 40 min headways, the only standalone portion was along Bailey Avenue which at the time had nothing that could generate decent ridership. when the UH Bridge was out the Bx12 overlapped it to 225 so it only really served Fieldston and Bailey bet 225 and Albany Cr alone. So I'm asking you is race really the most relevant factor in the elimination of the Bx24?

 

I don't see any statistics supporting your argument about the Bx10 ridership nor do I see any showing the percentage of Riverdalians shopping in adjacent communities vs. shopping in Manhattan/Westchester in that article. The author also made an error, Target and 225 St are in Marble Hill not Kingsbridge, which leads me to my next point: most of the people have the boundaries of Bronx neighborhoods misconstrued. For example: MTA says the Bx32 ends in Kingsbridge but it's actually Kingsbridge Heights.

 

Regarding the Bx3: "Might as well be" and actually being are two different things and you are well aware of that but for the sake of an argument I'll allow you to annex the area west of Broadway into Riverdale and still prove you wrong about the Bx3 sign. Both the N/B terminal and S/B first stop are east of Broadway so it would still be Kingsbridge by that logic. The signs along Bway display Kingsbridge BID up to 238 St so you're wrong there and weve both agreed in the past it shouldn't be called Riverdale Crossing (it's a marketing ploy clearly). you might want to make up your mind.. One minute you're raving about the exclusivity of Riverdale (Upstairs v. Downstairs, fieldston v. Central) and the next you're attempting to annex what you deem to be the acceptable portions of other Bronx neighborhoods.

 

Any comments on the Bx37?

Uh, I have never attempted to annex "acceptable" portions of the Bronx to Riverdale because as far as I'm concerned, Kingsbridge or any other Bronx neighborhood cannot ever compare to Riverdale.  What I said was that communities near to Riverdale portray themselves as being part of the neighborhood.  That is two different things.

 

As for the demographics, okay so the hours sucked, but that still doesn't mean that demographics don't have an impact on ridership on routes because they do.  Are you seriously going to tell me that affluent whites in Fieldston would've used the Bx24 even if it had better headways? I would argue that that's the reason for the poor headways to begin with.  That's like arguing that the current Bx24's routing that serves Country Club has nothing to do with demographics, nor does the amount of service it gets.  Please.   Country Club is a majority white, solid middle class to upper middle class area that is fairly suburban in feel, so most people there drive and have no need for a bus.  If the demographics were similar to that of the South Bronx for example, poor and mainly minority, ridership would be MUCH higher. Just look at the Bx1 and Bx2 or any bus that serves minority neighborhoods and study the ridership.

 

What statistics does one need about who rides a bus where?  It's pretty simple... You can use the route and see for yourself.  I do have two eyes you know.  The article that I linked clearly states that Riverdalians don't frequent Kingsbridge in large numbers outside of going to the train.  Let's stop sitting here and pretending like you don't know this and that you need statistics for a very simple concept.    You can look at the Bx10 schedule and see how many short turned buses there are to West 231st street.

 

I see NO NEED for a Bx37.  Complete waste of resources.  Just improve Bx10 and Bx7 service and add a few short turned on the Bx7.

[Q43 Floral Park]

These posts come across as classist and racially biased on a multitude of levels. why you would move to a borough that you find no pride in being a part of?

 

When have any of those communities attempted to claim status as a portion of riverdale? The developers possibly but the residents themselves?

 

No one Bronx Neighborhood is better than any other. They all have pros, cons and things that make them unique.

 

Just answer the question: do you believe that race and socioecomic status are more relevant factors than poor service levels when it comes to ridership?

 

I'm not going to tell you residents in Fieldston would have used it more often with better service because I don't have data on how many Fieldston residents use public transportation. What I will tell you is that people along other portions of the route would have utilized it with better service. No one will wait for a bus on 40 min headways unless they have no choice

 

You love to change the subject... CC is on the other side of the borough they have different needs and the Bx24 is a poor example: they allowed the Bx14 to be cut in the first place and then realized the 8 was a horrible replacement. Obviously they needed their own route or the bx24 wouldn't exist now (it also has roughly the same service levels as the old 14). You're also wrong because the Bx46 runs through the South Bronx, with similar headways, and has less ridership than the bx24. We'll see if that changes with the 2014 ridership data.

 

The article clearly stated information that it didn't support with a survey, poll or any data so it's useless for research purposes. You can ride it and see for yourself but that makes the assumption that your observation is the norm which can't be proven without multiple observations and data. Also you need statistics on ridership to make alterations to service levels in operations planning.

 

You see no need because you only see a need for things that benefit your own community knowing that's not how transportation planning works. To me it sounds like a complete waste of resources to overtax a bus depot that's already bursting at the seams with more buses just to give a small portion of the area a little bit more service when we could provide it to new markets as well.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

These posts come across as classist and racially biased on a multitude of levels. why you would move to a borough that you find no pride in being a part of?

When have any of those communities attempted to claim status as a portion of riverdale? The developers possibly but the residents themselves?

No one Bronx Neighborhood is better than any other. They all have pros, cons and things that make them unique.

Just answer the question: do you believe that race and socioecomic status are more relevant factors than poor service levels when it comes to ridership?

I'm not going to tell you residents in Fieldston would have used it more often with better service because I don't have data on how many Fieldston residents use public transportation. What I will tell you is that people along other portions of the route would have utilized it with better service. No one will wait for a bus on 40 min headways unless they have no choice

You love to change the subject... CC is on the other side of the borough they have different needs and the Bx24 is a poor example: they allowed the Bx14 to be cut in the first place and then realized the 8 was a horrible replacement. Obviously they needed their own route or the bx24 wouldn't exist now (it also has roughly the same service levels as the old 14). You're also wrong because the Bx46 runs through the South Bronx, with similar headways, and has less ridership than the bx24. We'll see if that changes with the 2014 ridership data.

The article clearly stated information that it didn't support with a survey, poll or any data so it's useless for research purposes. You can ride it and see for yourself but that makes the assumption that your observation is the norm which can't be proven without multiple observations and data. Also you need statistics on ridership to make alterations to service levels in operations planning.

You see no need because you only see a need for things that benefit your own community knowing that's not how transportation planning works. To me it sounds like a complete waste of resources to overtax a bus depot that's already bursting at the seams with more buses just to give a small portion of the area a little bit more service when we could provide it to new markets as well.

Sorry but Riverdale is not like the Bronx, most of which is poor, and even the good neighborhoods save a few like Woodlawn appear to be in decline. The family median income here is well over $100,000 in several tracts, which is uncommon in the Bronx. A fair amount of people live in Riverdale that would not DARE live in the Bronx, as this isn't considered "the Bronx". I learned that quickly when doing my research on this area and deciding whether or not to move here. This neighborhood has more in common with Westchester, as it is the only true upper class area in this part of NYC.

 

As for me sounding classist and racist, I'm speaking the truth and you know it. Demographics and economics play a big role in how people commute, and for what it's worth, many here drive, especially those in Fieldston. I'm a short 10 minute walk to Fieldston, as I live in Downtown Riverdale, and know who uses what. The folks around here and in Fieldston are busy using the express bus and Metro-North, with the rest schlepping on the local bus or subway.

 

Your Country Club and South Bronx comparison is a joke. The Bx24 runs through a solid middle to upper middle class area where people generally drive. The Bx46 meanwhile serves some of the poorest areas of the Bronx and for what it's worth, I'd argue that ridership would be higher on that line if the fare was enforced. The poor areas of the Bronx ESPECIALLY the South Bronx are known to have VERY high rates of farebeating.

 

Oh and excuse me for being against waste, which is exactly what the Bx37 would be.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Sorry but Riverdale is not like the Bronx, most of which is poor, and even the good neighborhoods save a few like Woodlawn appear to be in decline. The family median income here is well over $100,000 in several tracts, which is uncommon in the Bronx. A fair amount of people live in Riverdale that would not DARE live in the Bronx, as this isn't considered "the Bronx". I learned that quickly when doing my research on this area and deciding whether or not to move here. This neighborhood has more in common with Westchester, as it is the only true upper class area in this part of NYC.

 

As for me sounding classist and racist, I'm speaking the truth and you know it. Demographics and economics play a big role in how people commute, and for what it's worth, many here drive, especially those in Fieldston. I'm a short 10 minute walk to Fieldston, as I live in Downtown Riverdale, and know who uses what. The folks around here and in Fieldston are busy using the express bus and Metro-North, with the rest schlepping on the local bus or subway.

 

Your Country Club and South Bronx comparison is a joke. The Bx24 runs through a solid middle to upper middle class area where people generally drive. The Bx46 meanwhile serves some of the poorest areas of the Bronx and for what it's worth, I'd argue that ridership would be higher on that line if the fare was enforced. The poor areas of the Bronx ESPECIALLY the South Bronx are known to have VERY high rates of farebeating.

 

Oh and excuse me for being against waste, which is exactly what the Bx37 would be.

Those buses don't carry many riders to begin with, you can't compare the Bx46 to a route like the Bx41. Given it's low ridership (and that the bus is not packed or SRO), you won't see much of people farebeating through the front. That bus also serves the subway, and I'd argue that the bus doesn't have as many amount of people farebeating is higher. Even if every farebeating passenger paid, you wouldn't have a drastic increase in ridership.