Bx9 SBS

[qjtransitmaster]

M101 would never get SBS why simple 2 words Lexington line. Those wanting fast service won't even bother with M101/102/103.

[Fresh Pond]

M101 would never get SBS why simple 2 words Lexington line. Those wanting fast service won't even bother with M101/102/103.

Going by your logic, once the SAS opens (whenever it opens), the M15 SBS would be useless

[lupojohn]

M101 would never get SBS why simple 2 words Lexington line. Those wanting fast service won't even bother with M101/102/103.

Going by the criteria that's been said on here(LTD, no connections to subways, can't turn), what routes can be deemed worthy of SBS? 

[Q43LTD]

Going by your logic, once the SAS opens (whenever it opens), the M15 SBS would be useless

 

 

Going by the criteria that's been said on here(LTD, no connections to subways, can't turn), what routes can be deemed worthy of SBS? 

Everything is speed with this guy...(QJT)

[qjtransitmaster]

Going by your logic, once the SAS opens (whenever it opens), the M15 SBS would be useless

the riders will choose but that will be a long time before SAS is completed till then you would wind up with a B44 SBS vs senario where SBS serves the whole corridor but subway turns off and serves a small part.

[qjtransitmaster]

Going by the criteria that's been said on here(LTD, no connections to subways, can't turn), what routes can be deemed worthy of SBS?

Q44 & Q25(maybe) plus M96(maybe). B6&82 but not sure on the B6 as it ain't that slow. Q43 can benefit then again it is already on the MTA's radar not sure how eastern service would be effected. Bx40 can become SBS with bx42 getting additional service. I am spread out so not enough time to care about NYC Transit.

[lupojohn]

Q44 & Q25(maybe) plus M96(maybe). B6&82 but not sure on the B6 as it ain't that slow. Q43 can benefit then again it is already on the MTA's radar not sure how eastern service would be effected. Bx40 can become SBS with bx42 getting additional service. I am spread out so not enough time to care about NYC Transit.

Yet here you are talking about it . Bx40 and Bx42, I could see. I would assume artics already being on the line would help. The Q44 would come to mind.

[BxM4Woodlawn]

It's probably for accessibility reasons and the frequent stops, but the MTA probably has other reasons too...

 

The Bx1 LTD can get away with weaving in and out of the service road at a couple of points (like Fordham to Burnside, there is no 183rd stop for the Bx1 LTD) but even then they stay on the service road.

when I take the Bx1 LTD it switches to the main road north of Bedford Park Blvd.

[lupojohn]

Why does the Bx1 seem to get priority over the Bx2 when they run the same route, with the exception of segments of the 1 from 231st to Fort Independence and the 2 from East 149th to East 138th/3rd Avenue?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Why does the Bx1 seem to get priority over the Bx2 when they run the same route, with the exception of segments of the 1 from 231st to Fort Independence and the 2 from East 149th to East 138th/3rd Avenue?

Priority as far as what?

[lupojohn]

Priority as far as what?

SBS service.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

SBS service.

Why would the Bx2 be considered for SBS service when it is the local variant of the Bx1???

[lupojohn]

Why would the Bx2 be considered for SBS service when it is the local variant of the Bx1???

This is my point. They are the same route, save for a portion in the beginning for the 1 and a portion at the end for the 2.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

This is my point. They are the same route, save for a portion in the beginning for the 1 and a portion at the end for the 2.

You have a hard time understanding... The Bx2 provides local service.     The Bx1 provides limited stop service, so it would receive SBS service since it already has limited stop service and runs further than the Bx2.

[lupojohn]

You have a hard time understanding... The Bx2 provides local service.     The Bx1 provides limited stop service, so it would receive SBS service since it already has limited stop service and runs further than the Bx2.

Please keep the tone respectful and I get everything you're saying. Here's my point: the 1 and 2 share at least 1 terminal. To compare:

 

The M15 SBS/M15 Local share the same northern and southern terminal, so it makes sense to have an SBS route and a local route. Ditto the Bx41 SBS/Bx41 Local. The difference with the 1 and 2 is they don't run the EXACT same route.

 

The Bx12 SBS/Bx12 Local have 0 shared terminals despite a large portion of the route being the same.

 

The M34/M34A are like the Bx12 SBS/Bx12 Local in that they have 4 different terminals(2 for each route) and they don't even really share a large portion of the route. The only difference is that the renumbered the 34A from the M16, so they decided to stick SBS on there.

 

So, you see, unless the 1 and 2 have totally different terminals or run the exact same route, it makes no sense for one to have SBS without the other since they do serve different areas, no matter how small those segments may be.

[bobtehpanda]

Please keep the tone respectful and I get everything you're saying. Here's my point: the 1 and 2 share at least 1 terminal. To compare:

 

The M15 SBS/M15 Local share the same northern and southern terminal, so it makes sense to have an SBS route and a local route. Ditto the Bx41 SBS/Bx41 Local. The difference with the 1 and 2 is they don't run the EXACT same route.

 

The Bx12 SBS/Bx12 Local have 0 shared terminals despite a large portion of the route being the same.

 

The M34/M34A are like the Bx12 SBS/Bx12 Local in that they have 4 different terminals(2 for each route) and they don't even really share a large portion of the route. The only difference is that the renumbered the 34A from the M16, so they decided to stick SBS on there.

 

So, you see, unless the 1 and 2 have totally different terminals or run the exact same route, it makes no sense for one to have SBS without the other since they do serve different areas, no matter how small those segments may be.

 

It's to make things simpler. It would be really confusing if half the Bx1s were SBS and half the Bx2s were SBS, and it's not as if the difference in route is so significant that both groups of riders should have SBS service since one can easily walk from the different parts of the Bx2 route to the Bx1.

 

The Bx12 local and Bx12 SBS do not run the exact same route, in any case. The Bx12 local only runs between PBP and University Heights MNR except during late nights.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Logic would dictate the 1 would get SBS, since its already the limited bus service, the fact that the Bx1 is longer sorta plays a role. Making the 2 the SBS would make it confusing, since the 1 would then have to be turned local, and you would have to redistribute the amount of buses on both routes.

 

Keeping it simple, the 1 over the 2 for SBS would make it simpler than vice versa.

[lupojohn]

Logic would dictate the 1 would get SBS, since its already the limited bus service, the fact that the Bx1 is longer sorta plays a role. Making the 2 the SBS would make it confusing, since the 1 would then have to be turned local, and you would have to redistribute the amount of buses on both routes.

 

Keeping it simple, the 1 over the 2 for SBS would make it simpler than vice versa.

Or you can not have SBS on either since the difference in routing is not that much according to bob, similar to the Bx4/A(not citing either route for SBS service. Using them as an example).

[bobtehpanda]

Or you can not have SBS on either since the difference in routing is not that much according to bob, similar to the Bx4/A(not citing either route for SBS service. Using them as an example).

 

Except that's not what I said at all...

[lupojohn]

It's to make things simpler. It would be really confusing if half the Bx1s were SBS and half the Bx2s were SBS, and it's not as if the difference in route is so significant that both groups of riders should have SBS service since one can easily walk from the different parts of the Bx2 route to the Bx1.

 

 

 

Except that's not what I said at all...

That's what I meant. You mentioned how the routing difference is not that great.

[engineerboy6561]

Some sort of limited-stop service on the Bx9 (combined with marginally decreased headways) would probably be a pretty good idea; SBS would be a bit much as far as I'm concerned, though. That said, Bx9 LTD/SBS service would only really add much value south of 225 St; Broadway between 218 St and 242 St is only two lanes, and north of 242 St the Bx9 is fairly lightly used; you get a decent-sized load of people at 242 St coming off the heading home, but it's not to the point where l'd see LTD service as very useful. From 238/231 St down to 180 St the Bx9 will run full (or pretty close to full) during rush hours and pretty damn crowded on middays and weekends; additional buses would be useful, and LTD service could be useful.

 

The options for improving Bx9 service are as follows, the way I see it:

 

1) Leave the route local-only and add more buses along the full route (262 St to West Farms); that's the cheapest and simplest option. South of 225 St, you might see a small gain in speed from reduced loading times at stops (same number of passengers arriving per hour with more buses per hour results in fewer passengers per bus) and you'd definitely see somewhat reduced crowding. North of 225 St you'd still get reduced crowding, but you'd wind up overserving the stretch of Broadway north of 242 St and you'd wind up breaking even or losing time because shorter loading times could easily be canceled out by worsened traffic on Broadway south of 242 St.

 

2) Leave the route local-only and add more buses along a portion of the route (either 242 St or 225 St to West Farms). Doing this from 242 St to West Farms would have similar pros and cons to the first option, with the only differences being no more overserving northern Broadway, but I'm not sure where you'd find the layover space for them unless you start laying them over along Manhattan College Parkway or Post Rd. It might very well be doable, and it might be the best idea out of the bunch. Extra buses from 225 St would improve travel time a bit, but might wind up running significantly emptier than full-route or 242 St-bound buses (no transfer to the Bx10 or the Bee-Line buses, no second transfers to Bx3 or Bx10).

 

3) Run additional limited-stop service on the Bx9 south of 242 St, and then short-turn some of the locals at 242 St. Under this plan, Bx9 LTD buses would make all local stops until 242 St, then:
 

Broadway/242 St

Broadway/238 St

Broadway/231 St

Broadway/225 St

Kingsbridge Rd/VA Hospital

Kingsbridge Rd/Jerome Av

Kingsbridge Rd/Grand Concourse

Fordham Rd/Fordham Center

Fordham Rd/Southern Blvd

Southern Blvd/183 St

Southern Blvd/180 St

180 St/ Boston Rd

All stops to/from West Farms Sq

 

You'd have minimal time savings on the limited-stop bus along Broadway, but you'd have reduced crowding without losing any transfers, and then south of 225 St you'd definitely be able to go somewhat faster with less crowding by shedding some of the local stops. You'd lose the transfer to the Bx34 at Fordham Center (currently you can change from the northbound Bx9 by getting off at the stop on Fordham between Webster and Bainbridge, then walking about half a block; changing from the southbound Bx9 requires getting off at the Fordham library and then walking half a block to a block) but I'm not sure how many people actually use it.

 

If this were going to happen, I'd definitely recommend trying Option 3 first, and then if the limited-stop service turns out to be a complete flop return the limited trips to local service.

[qjtransitmaster]

SBS service.

limited service is good enough use the subway if you want speed. SBS is called just boost bx1.

[bobtehpanda]

Please keep the tone respectful and I get everything you're saying. Here's my point: the 1 and 2 share at least 1 terminal. To compare:

 

The M15 SBS/M15 Local share the same northern and southern terminal, so it makes sense to have an SBS route and a local route. Ditto the Bx41 SBS/Bx41 Local. The difference with the 1 and 2 is they don't run the EXACT same route.

 

The Bx12 SBS/Bx12 Local have 0 shared terminals despite a large portion of the route being the same.

 

The M34/M34A are like the Bx12 SBS/Bx12 Local in that they have 4 different terminals(2 for each route) and they don't even really share a large portion of the route. The only difference is that the renumbered the 34A from the M16, so they decided to stick SBS on there.

 

So, you see, unless the 1 and 2 have totally different terminals or run the exact same route, it makes no sense for one to have SBS without the other since they do serve different areas, no matter how small those segments may be.

 

 

It's to make things simpler. It would be really confusing if half the Bx1s were SBS and half the Bx2s were SBS, and it's not as if the difference in route is so significant that both groups of riders should have SBS service since one can easily walk from the different parts of the Bx2 route to the Bx1.

 

The Bx12 local and Bx12 SBS do not run the exact same route, in any case. The Bx12 local only runs between PBP and University Heights MNR except during late nights.

 

I was arguing that it's silly to say that if one can't get SBS service, none can get SBS service. SBS is just upgraded limited service, so the difference in routing does not matter. Nowhere did I say "neither should get SBS service", so stop putting words in my mouth.

 

If anything, that's not the reason the Bx1/2 aren't getting SBS service. For once, QJT is actually right in saying that because Grand Concourse already has subway service, it has not been, and will not be considered for SBS service by DOT. In fact, the DOT published a study listing future routes being considered.

 

[Daniel The Cool]

I'm still trying to figure out Why would the M10 or the M101 be good for SBS when it's actually not

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Please keep the tone respectful and I get everything you're saying. Here's my point: the 1 and 2 share at least 1 terminal. To compare:

 

The M15 SBS/M15 Local share the same northern and southern terminal, so it makes sense to have an SBS route and a local route. Ditto the Bx41 SBS/Bx41 Local. The difference with the 1 and 2 is they don't run the EXACT same route.

 

The Bx12 SBS/Bx12 Local have 0 shared terminals despite a large portion of the route being the same.

 

The M34/M34A are like the Bx12 SBS/Bx12 Local in that they have 4 different terminals(2 for each route) and they don't even really share a large portion of the route. The only difference is that the renumbered the 34A from the M16, so they decided to stick SBS on there.

 

So, you see, unless the 1 and 2 have totally different terminals or run the exact same route, it makes no sense for one to have SBS without the other since they do serve different areas, no matter how small those segments may be.

It still would make no sense because the portions where they don't run together, the Bx1 is LOCAL.  The thinking is that if someone was going from the South Bronx to Riverdale, they would use the Bx1 since it runs limited most of the way.  The point with the Bx1 and Bx2 is that they both serve almost the entire length of the Concourse (the core of it).  South of 149th street the Bx1 has to be local.  North of where the Bx2 terminates, the Bx1 has to be local.  Someone that needs the Bx1 limited can get it from 149th street on.