Could the Subway Shutdown have been politically motivated?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I'm just curious as to where in the hell people were supposed to going anyway with a travel ban in effect? What exactly would be the gain in having the subways run when the only people that were supposed to be out were emergency personnel and the like? Having them run just because??

[mfs NJT459]

so compare this to Gov Christie closing the George Washington Bridge politically motivated?

[MHV9218]

This was dumb panic-button decision-making, not politics. Everybody knew the system would be fine with a Plan 5+ in effect, but Cuomo clearly freaked and pulled the plug. It was a dumb decision that left thousands of employees stranded and ensured that this morning *nobody* would be going back to work.

[RailRunRob]

I'm just curious as to where in the hell people were supposed to going anyway with a travel ban in effect? What exactly would be the gain in having the subways run when the only people that were supposed to be out were emergency personnel and the like? Having them run just because??

There were travel bans in 2006 as well. Makes total sense for the roads. Wasn't one the biggest pushes for the subway or placing transportation underground in Boston and later NYC bc of blizzards? Namely 1888? There's always going to be people needing to get somewhere may it be someone maintaining infrastructure. Nurses, Building Maintenance, Security.. some people still have to make it happened keep it all running. The subway is the one of the things that makes New York unique. A city this size isn't just going to shut completely down. They kept it running in 47,77,96,03,06 and for the most part 2010 what's different now?. Having them run just because? They wound up running ghost trains all night just because anyways.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

There were travel bans in 2006 as well. Makes total sense for the roads. Wasn't one the biggest pushes for the subway or placing transportation underground in Boston and later NYC bc of blizzards? Namely 1888? There's always going to be people needing to get somewhere may it be someone maintaining infrastructure. Nurses, Building Maintenance, Security.. some people still have to make it happened keep it all running. The subway is the one of the things that makes New York unique. A city this size isn't just going to shut completely down. They kept it running in 47,77,96,03,06 and for the most part 2010 what's different now?. Having them run just because? They wound up running ghost trains all night just because anyways.

I think it's quite arrogant to think that somehow we as humans are invincible to what Mother Nature can do.  We saw that we are at her mercy during Hurricane Sandy and during some of the most latest snow storms as well.  I think it's wise to err on the side of caution.  I saw people walking around during Hurricane Sandy when they clearly should've been inside.  A large tree in front of my balcony literally snapped in half and luckily in landed away from my balcony window, otherwise I may not have been so lucky.  If someone was killed yesterday, perhaps people would be singing a different tune, but since the storm was a dud, automatically the thought process is why was everything shut down. 

 

You ask what's different? Well for starters the intensity of storms aren't what they used to be. I for one believe in global warming due to man's destruction, and believe that we will continue to see more intense storms in the future, and therefore it's wise to use precaution when necessary.

 

This was dumb panic-button decision-making, not politics. Everybody knew the system would be fine with a Plan 5+ in effect, but Cuomo clearly freaked and pulled the plug. It was a dumb decision that left thousands of employees stranded and ensured that this morning *nobody* would be going back to work.

I'm sure you were singing the same tune when people were stranded on buses and subway years ago and sued the for not taking enough precautions.  Damned if you do and damned if you don't... One day of missing work isn't the end of the world, esp. if the actions saved lives that could've been lost.  I've been home all day doing the same work that I would be doing in my office. I really don't see the big deal.  People had to adjust and make other arrangements and were inconvenienced for one day. Big f-ing deal.

All I have to say is that there is a huge difference between NYC and Buffalo. Location being the first. Being closer to the ocean makes this city slightly warmer than inland areas during the winter and therefore, we usually get less snow. 

 

(And before anyone even THINKS of contesting that, may I remind you that heat travels through the water, and it spent all summer absorbing it. In the summer, coastal areas are cooler than inland).

 

We've had way more severe storms in the past and the subway has not shut down. This time was no different.

The key is what was PREDICTED, not what we had.  Let's try to keep that in mind before yelling about keeping the subway running.

[FamousNYLover]

I agreed that Governor Cuomo did excellent job that suspending service because if trains are running, people will try to take train.

 

I don't think anybody will travel until full service recovers on subway-buses since there are some employees might be coming from Westchester County or Suffolk County which their buses aren't running until Thursday.

[RailRunRob]

I think it's quite arrogant to think that somehow we as humans are invincible to what Mother Nature can do.  We saw that we are at her mercy during Hurricane Sandy and during some of the most latest snow storms as well.  I think it's wise to err on the side of caution.  I saw people walking around during Hurricane Sandy when they clearly should've been inside.  A large tree in front of my balcony literally snapped in half and luckily in landed away from my balcony window, otherwise I may not have been so lucky.  If someone was killed yesterday, perhaps people would be singing a different tune, but since the storm was a dud, automatically the thought process is why was everything shut down. 

 

Tell me about it we build major cities on fault lines and in the way of tornados and hurricanes we truly believe we are masters of our own domain human nature I guess. Sandy was a different story all together. I guess the question again there have been many major Snow storms in the past a few worst. Im not understanding how this affects the underground portions of the subway? And after knowing that we may get over 2 feet of snow why did they still run train's darn near on schedule if they weren't able to do so.. seems to me the MTA was planing too but Gov the made the call? I can't recall anyone getting hurt in 2006 or 2010 besides the stranded trains. If I live on 110th and I have to get to work because I have too. why shouldnt I have the option to? If the subway is fully operational? and a block from my home?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

 

I think it's quite arrogant to think that somehow we as humans are invincible to what Mother Nature can do.  We saw that we are at her mercy during Hurricane Sandy and during some of the most latest snow storms as well.  I think it's wise to err on the side of caution.  I saw people walking around during Hurricane Sandy when they clearly should've been inside.  A large tree in front of my balcony literally snapped in half and luckily in landed away from my balcony window, otherwise I may not have been so lucky.  If someone was killed yesterday, perhaps people would be singing a different tune, but since the storm was a dud, automatically the thought process is why was everything shut down. 

 

Tell me about it we build major cities on fault lines and in the way of tornados and hurricanes we truly believe we are masters of our own domain human nature I guess. Sandy was a different story all together. I guess the question again there have been many major Snow storms in the past a few worst. Im not understanding how this affects the underground portions of the subway? And after knowing that we may get over 2 feet of snow what did they still run train darn near on schedule if they weren't able to do say.. seems to me the MTA was planing too but the made the call? I can't recall anyone getting hurt in 2006 or 2010 besides the stranded trains. If I live on 110th and I have to get to work because I have too. why shouldnt I have the option to? If the subway is fully operational? I block from my home?

 

If you have to get to work, then your employer should make arrangements for you, as some people have emergency positions that require them to be in, which I mentioned earlier. Nevertheless, why should the risk more lawsuits (they were sued by plenty of people who were stranded on the buses and subways)? You have the option to do what's in your best interests, and the should be allowed to do what's in its best interests, which is protect itself from lawsuits and putting people in dangerous situations unnecessarily, which would be viewed as completely reckless.  It's one thing if you have to go to work to be out there, but you have plenty of people that believe that they are above anything and everything, and therefore because of that, everything should continue to run, even if that means that peoples' lives could be in danger. You had people b*tching when everything was shut down after Sandy too and that was clearly a dangerous situation... Especially spoiled brats in Manhattan... Why isn't the store open?? Well let's see... We just had a hurricane and some stores sustained severe damage or are completely ruined.  The problem is we've become too accustomed to having everything our way, and when we have to be inconvenienced it's the end of the world.

 

Man does NOT control Mother Nature....

[MHV9218]

I'm sure you were singing the same tune when people were stranded on buses and subway years ago and sued the for not taking enough precautions.  Damned if you do and damned if you don't... One day of missing work isn't the end of the world, esp. if the actions saved lives that could've been lost.  I've been home all day doing the same work that I would be doing in my office. I really don't see the big deal.  People had to adjust and make other arrangements and were inconvenienced for one day. Big f-ing deal.

 

It's not like there's only an On and Off switch. You know how you avoid people getting stranded? You chain buses and limit service on certain routes, and you shut down elevated subways. That's all detailed in Plan 5. Which didn't exist back in 2010, and that's part of why that happened. You can run reduced service and still avoid everything you said.

[RailRunRob]

If you have to get to work, then your employer should make arrangements for you, as some people have emergency positions that require them to be in, which I mentioned earlier. Nevertheless, why should the risk more lawsuits (they were sued by plenty of stranded people who were stranded on the buses and subways)? You have the option to do what's in your best interest, and the should be allowed to do what's in its best interest, which is protect itself from lawsuits and putting people in dangerous situations unnecessarily.  It's one thing if you have to go to work to be out there, but you have plenty of people that believe that they are above anything and everything, and therefore because of that, everything should continue to run, even if that means that people's lives could be in danger. You had people b*tching when everything was shut down after Sandy too and that was clearly a dangerous situation... Especially spoiled brats in Manhattan... Why isn't the store open?? Well let's see... We just had a hurricane and some stores sustained severe damage or are completely ruined.  The problem is we've become too accustomed to having everything our way, and when we have to be inconvenienced it's the end of the world.

 

Okay I'm just going to ask this and ill leave it alone. Let me just make sure I'm understanding it all correctly.

 

The Subway that is 60% underground and was placed along with other Utilities underground over 100 years to keep the city moving in cases such as this was shut to the public when in fact its run though multiple storms and blizzards with no issues and in fact probably infrastructure wise In some it not all case the system was worst shape systemwide before?

 

Sued? You run trains in 4-5ft Snow drifts yes they get stuck. What does this have to do with the 60% once again? Buses obvious there shouldn't be service tell us something we don't know. 

 

Spoiled? businesses plant firm roots here knowing that Rain,Sleet and Snow transportation works we've had that reputation for over 100 years. yes times have changed Sandy was a wake up that's a different beast we know the risk of the system flooding people understood that. 100% shutdown the system in that case.

 

Your telling me we can't the have to Utica and turn back or the to 59th  or the to Church is there no flexibility in running a railroad now? If I live on 77th street and I need to get to wall street and I can brave the two block walk I shouldn't be able to get to work and keep stuff running.  What are we talking about? Once again the MTA knew the forecast and still ran trains that stopped at stations. Hours after the system shut in fact it never fully shut down So your telling me that if I got off a work at midnight last night from Lenox Hill that I shouldn't have the option to board a train to 96th street if I could manage the walk two- three blocks?

 

What am I missing?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Okay I'm just going to ask this and ill leave it alone. Let me just make sure I'm understanding it all correctly.

 

The Subway that is 60% underground and was placed along with other Utilities underground over 100 years to keep the city moving in cases such as this was shut to the public when in fact its run though multiple storms and blizzards with no issues and in fact probably infrastructure wise In some it not all case the system was worst shape systemwide before?

 

Sued? You run trains in 4-5ft Snow drifts yes they get stuck. What does this have to do with the 60% once again? Buses obvious there shouldn't be service tell us something we don't know. 

 

Spoiled? businesses plant firm roots here knowing that Rain,Sleet and Snow transportation works we've had that reputation for over 100 years. yes times have changed Sandy was a wake up that's a different beast we know the risk of the system flooding people understood that. 100% shutdown the system in that case.

 

Your telling me we can't the have to Utica and turn back or the to 59th  or the to Church is there no flexibility in running a railroad now? If I live on 77th street and I need to get to wall street and I can brave the two block walk I shouldn't be able to get to work and keep stuff running.  What are we talking about? Once again the MTA knew the forecast and still ran trains that stopped at stations. Hours after the system shut in fact it never fully shut down So your telling me that if I got off a work at midnight last night from Lenox Hill that I shouldn't have the option to board a train to 96th street if I could manage the walk two- three blocks?

 

What am I missing?

You seem to be missing the fact that the Governor called for a travel ban, which means people should stay INDOORS unless they have to be at work for an emergency.  What part of that isn't clear?  If you continue to run that service underground, people will b*tch about why other services aren't running, and before you say they won't, they will, because people are stupid like that.  Unless they see the storm with their own eyes, they will question why isn't such and such service running. The issue isn't about running the system underground, but about getting people to understand that they may be risking dangerous situations when they could be indoors safe from the elements.

 

A forecast is just that.. A prediction.. It isn't a guarantee about what will happen with the weather.

 

It's not like there's only an On and Off switch. You know how you avoid people getting stranded? You chain buses and limit service on certain routes, and you shut down elevated subways. That's all detailed in Plan 5. Which didn't exist back in 2010, and that's part of why that happened. You can run reduced service and still avoid everything you said.

If I didn't know any better, I would think that there was off and on switch as if the can control what Mother Nature can do.  The governor wanted people INSIDE because of the risk involved with the storm that was forecasted and if service was running (even curtailed service), people would continue to walk around as if nothing was going on.  We were LUCKY that the storm drifted further east.  People associate the fact that we were spared as a way to completely disregard future warnings about potential dangerous storms and that's the real problem.... People's belief that they are invincible, and that regardless of the circumstances, that everything should run as normal because they know better than everyone else, as if they can predict how dangerous or harmless a storm will be.  Very arrogant stance...

[MHV9218]

If I didn't know any better, I would think that there was off and on switch as if the can control what Mother Nature can do.  The governor wanted people INSIDE because of the risk involved with the storm that was forecasted and if service was running (even curtailed service), people would continue to walk around as if nothing was going on.  We were LUCKY that the storm drifted further east.  People associate the fact that we were spared as a way to completely disregard future warnings about potential dangerous storms and that's the real problem.... People's belief that they are invincible, and that regardless of the circumstances, that everything should run as normal because they know better than everyone else, as if they can predict how dangerous or harmless a storm will be.  Very arrogant stance...

 

No they wouldn't. Did you even go outside yesterday? The streets were getting empty by 4, 5pm. Well before the shutdown it was a no man's land.

[RailRunRob]

You seem to be missing the fact that the Governor called for a travel ban, which means people should stay INDOORS unless they have to be at work for an emergency.  What part of that isn't clear?  If you continue to run that service underground, people will b*tch about why other services aren't running, and before you say they won't, they will, because people are stupid like that.  Unless they see the storm with their own eyes, they will question why isn't such and such service running. The issue isn't about running the system underground, but about getting people to understand that they may be risking dangerous situations when they could be indoors safe from the elements.

 

A forecast is just that.. A prediction.. It isn't a guarantee about what will happen with the weather.

 

If I didn't know any better, I would think that there was off and on switch as if the can control what Mother Nature can do.  The governor wanted people INSIDE because of the risk involved with the storm that was forecasted and if service was running (even curtailed service), people would continue to walk around as if nothing was going on.  We were LUCKY that the storm drifted further east.  People associate the fact that we were spared as a way to completely disregard future warnings about potential dangerous storms and that's the real problem.... People's belief that they are invincible, and that regardless of the circumstances, that everything should run as normal because they know better than everyone else, as if they can predict how dangerous or harmless a storm will be.  Very arrogant stance...

Man pls.. First off the travel ban was on all roads after 11pm okay that makes sense allows the crews to clear the streets. Dont want anyone to get stranded and make it hard for cleanup Cuomo himself made a joke about the Chinese delivery people out in the storm this morning . Had nothing to do with the thousand pedestrians still out and coming off of late shifts etc. There were bands on the road in 2006 as well. Your side stepping the question.Pendergast himself said there was no reason to close the system on Monday. Cuomo made that call. The question was what changed over the years? There was almost 30 inches in 2006 the point of the system is to run in snow. You keep repeating information we all know. As someone said here before the MTA has a plan for blizzards. Question what changed now as in 2015?

[RailRunRob]

No they wouldn't. Did you even go outside yesterday? The streets were getting empty by 4, 5pm. Well before the shutdown it was a no man's land.

Exactly who wants to be out in a blizzard most people heeded the message but the subway should serve for those that absolutely need to travel including emergency and essential workers. instead of braving the roads.

[BreeddekalbL]

http://www.wnyc.org/story/mayor-de-blasio-found-out-about-subway-shutdown-right-about-when-you-did/

 

http://www.wnyc.org/story/anatomy-mta-shutdown/?utm_source=/story/mayor-de-blasio-found-out-about-subway-shutdown-right-about-when-you-did/&utm_medium=treatment&utm_campaign=morelikethis

 

read and debate

[Gotham Bus Co.]

This has nothing to do with politics. Coumo wanted his city to be safe, not because he wanted to run for election. We already Have Hurricane Andy as an example, they used precautions to make sure the city stayed safe, when someone hears "This Blizzard is Gonna be big!" on the news, it automatically gets sent to the Mayor and Cuomo, who then make a decison to do a Travel Ban to make sure the city is safe. I repeat, this has nothing  to do with politics.

 

NYC is not "his city" at all.  

 

Cuomo has a suburban mindset and caters almost exclusively to his suburban base, so he had to play the suburbs against the city.  He knew that suburbanites would never forgive him for shutting down Metro-North and LIRR while still allowing city residents to have any amount of subway service.  

[Gotham Bus Co.]

A forecast is just that.. A prediction.. It isn't a guarantee about what will happen with the weather.

 

Tell that to the six Italian seismologists who were each convicted of 300-plus counts of manslaughter because they didn't predict the exact location and magnitude of an earthquake in 2009.

[Wallyhorse]

Exactly who wants to be out in a blizzard most people heeded the message but the subway should serve for those that absolutely need to travel including emergency and essential workers. instead of braving the roads.

Right!  Plus, there are some companies who are going to hear about putting workers up in hotels from shareholders who "don't care about how the sausage is made" and only care about the bottom line.

 

There are also those in Asia who I'm sure are HEAVILY critical of Cuomo doing what he did and hurting business here.  People in Japan worked through the earthquake/tsunami in 2011 and a Super Typhoon (equal of a Cat. 5 Hurricane I believe) last year and everything as I understood it ran normally.  I'm sure companies based there were not thrilled, especially since Japan worked through situations that were WORSE than SANDY.

 

I'm pretty sure Wall Street Firms who have teams of lawyers look at EVERYTHING right now have their lawyers looking for any LEGAL way possible to take Cuomo to court over this and sue to prevent him from ever doing this again outside of a Sandy/Irene situation, even with a travel ban.   The Dow finished down over 290 points on Wednesday and a good portion of that was (at least earlier on Wednesday) considered to be directly attributed to what Cuomo did because many people could not get to work.  There are many companies where the bottom line comes before all else and I'm sure Cuomo if nothing else is going to face massive pressure from Wall Street to never do this again (at least with the underground portions) or look to even go as far to appeal to Federal Officals to pressure Cuomo to not do that again unless it's a Sandy/Irene situation.

 

And yes, I do think Cuomo was more worried about his Presidential bid in 2020 or 2024 being torpedoed by an screwup) if he had not interveined like he did.

[YankeesPwnMets]

There are also those in Asia who I'm sure are HEAVILY critical of Cuomo doing what he did and hurting business here.  People in Japan worked through the earthquake/tsunami in 2011 and a Super Typhoon (equal of a Cat. 5 Hurricane I believe) last year and everything as I understood it ran normally.  I'm sure companies based there were not thrilled, especially since Japan worked through situations that were WORSE than SANDY.

 

Deep down, do you truly think he gives a shit about what someone in Asia thinks of him? *rolls eyes*

[Trainmaster5]

I'm just curious as to where in the hell people were supposed to going anyway with a travel ban in effect? What exactly would be the gain in having the subways run when the only people that were supposed to be out were emergency personnel and the like? Having them run just because??

I've already stated my feelings on this matter in another post but let me take it a little bit further if I may. If I was still working at the as a M/M I would applaud the Governor's stance. My thinking would be along the lines of why should I risk my life and limb driving to/from work during a potentially dangerous storm when Mr and Mrs John Q. Public are sitting at home safe and warm ? If I was already at work I think I would stay where I was rather than try to commute home. As VG8 points out suppose the subways were running in NYC during the storm? When you arrived at your stop at Broadway-East New York, Jamaica Center, or Main Street, for example, then what? Unless you live close to the subway stop you're still SOL aren't you? Unless you qualify for first responder status you weren't supposed to drive. Perhaps someone was going to make the walk from Jamaica Center to Rochdale or down to Rosedale? Yeah, right. Before anyone brings up that subway, bus, and railroad personnel had to travel around forget that argument. Neither nor Postal employees are considered emergency personnel.9/11 and the NY State Police said otherwise and the concurred. Since we were forewarned about the bans on driving and the shutdown just whom were these employees supposed to be providing service for? Railfans? Feel free to respond. I'm waiting for the rational counter arguments. Carry on.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

No they wouldn't. Did you even go outside yesterday? The streets were getting empty by 4, 5pm. Well before the shutdown it was a no man's land.

What a load of BS.  I was waiting for the express bus at 16:00 and there hoards of people walking up and down 6th Avenue.  It took an hour just to get out of the city because there were so many people out.  Spare me with that lie.

Exactly who wants to be out in a blizzard most people heeded the message but the subway should serve for those that absolutely need to travel including emergency and essential workers. instead of braving the roads.

Oh please.  The people that needed to be somewhere made it to their destination just the same OR they stayed overnight, just like they always have WITHOUT the subway. Lame excuse. You're acting like they were stuck for days.  Overnight is not a big deal.  I'm sure you've stayed in the city overnight on occasion as I have. 

[RailRunRob]

I've already stated my feelings on this matter in another post but let me take it a little bit further if I may. If I was still working at the as a M/M I would applaud the Governor's stance. My thinking would be along the lines of why should I risk my life and limb driving to/from work during a potentially dangerous storm when Mr and Mrs John Q. Public are sitting at home safe and warm ? If I was already at work I think I would stay where I was rather than try to commute home. As VG8 points out suppose the subways were running in NYC during the storm? When you arrived at your stop at Broadway-East New York, Jamaica Center, or Main Street, for example, then what? Unless you live close to the subway stop you're still SOL aren't you? Unless you qualify for first responder status you weren't supposed to drive. Perhaps someone was going to make the walk from Jamaica Center to Rochdale or down to Rosedale? Yeah, right. Before anyone brings up that subway, bus, and railroad personnel had to travel around forget that argument. Neither nor Postal employees are considered emergency personnel.9/11 and the NY State Police said otherwise and the concurred. Since we were forewarned about the bans on driving and the shutdown just whom were these employees supposed to be providing service for? Railfans? Feel free to respond. I'm waiting for the rational counter arguments. Carry on.

 

Rational indeed. I 100% respect your statement and could understand your POV. Places in the outer boroughs the last mile is a rough one Co-Op city, Rochdale,Rosedale 100% correct you get off the train then what. No where fast. We have 8.5 Million people in NYC alone tho this last mile issue may plague quite a few. There's still quite a few that don't have this issue. 10% of the population alone is 850k more then the population of San Fransico even if we added the current daily ridership on the subway what 5.4 Million even 10% of that is 540k easy so if only 5-10% of riders had jobs they really needed to during the storm that doesn't warrant service? There are thousands that work security, wall street, healthcare ,hospitality and on and on. On TV and on paper the ban sounds good but in a city of this size nothing is that cut and dry. As for working for the MTA. I have a few friends that work for MTA some high up on Madison and Jay some supervision. you put your 20 plus in. You've worked storms before. your called in before a snowstorm A,B or C division you know the task at hand. Just like sanitation ,City hospitals and so forth it may be a long tour. But show has to go on.. My mom is a RN last year retiring works at Montefiore in the Bronx lives in Westchester she knew she wasn't making it home. The job is the job. Once again 110 years were talking storms in the 1970's and 1980's when the system was in great state disrepair never was there talk of a full system shut down even then. Just coming from someone with a background in urban planning and Civil engineering everything I've learned of the Greenline tunnels in Boston and the IRT in NYC a lot if not all of the necessity of building came from the Blizzard 1888 I'm seeing that more and more in articles popping up so I feel as if I'm not crazy.  So what's changed since you once rode the rails?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Tell that to the six Italian seismologists who were each convicted of 300-plus counts of manslaughter because they didn't predict the exact location and magnitude of an earthquake in 2009.

This is the U.S. not Italy.  If I were you, I wouldn't be quoting anything from a country that has a LONG and ONGOING history of corruption, and a justice system that is as backwards as can be.  I'm of Italian heritage and have lived in Italy and can attest that Italy is one of the most chaotic countries of the West.  You can't even mail a letter there and expect it to reach its destination without a huge hassle.

[Wallyhorse]

I've already stated my feelings on this matter in another post but let me take it a little bit further if I may. If I was still working at the as a M/M I would applaud the Governor's stance. My thinking would be along the lines of why should I risk my life and limb driving to/from work during a potentially dangerous storm when Mr and Mrs John Q. Public are sitting at home safe and warm ? If I was already at work I think I would stay where I was rather than try to commute home. As VG8 points out suppose the subways were running in NYC during the storm? When you arrived at your stop at Broadway-East New York, Jamaica Center, or Main Street, for example, then what? Unless you live close to the subway stop you're still SOL aren't you? Unless you qualify for first responder status you weren't supposed to drive. Perhaps someone was going to make the walk from Jamaica Center to Rochdale or down to Rosedale? Yeah, right. Before anyone brings up that subway, bus, and railroad personnel had to travel around forget that argument. Neither nor Postal employees are considered emergency personnel.9/11 and the NY State Police said otherwise and the concurred. Since we were forewarned about the bans on driving and the shutdown just whom were these employees supposed to be providing service for? Railfans? Feel free to respond. I'm waiting for the rational counter arguments. Carry on.

I understand where you're coming from, but that doesn't change the fact there were no problems with the underground portions of the subways in any particular storm.  You may not have wanted to and I can fully understand that, but this goes WAY beyond you:

 

It was one thing to do it for Irene and Sandy when there were LEGITIMATE flood threats (and let us not forget Irene did directly hit NYC, albeit as a Tropical storm and not the Category 2 Hurricane that was predicted when the system was shut down then).  Cuomo was RIGHT to do it those times.  

 

A snowstorm is MUCH DIFFERENT.  Cuomo might very well have been worried about someone at the who wanted him out of office going rogue, ignoring orders on Plan V, order lines that should be shut down stay open in the hope something REAL bad would happen that would make Cuomo look real bad and turn the national media against him.  While NO ONE in the would be stupid enough to actually do that, given what politics are and how some people hate Cuomo, I would not put that fear past him, especially in the politically charged climate we are now in.

 

I do know if I were in the Democratic National Committee, I would make it clear to Cuomo he is NEVER to do this type of a shutdown outside of a Sandy/Irene situation again and leave it to the , making it clear to Cuomo if he doesn't, he will get no help if he does decide to run for President in 2020 or '24, taking away the fears of attack ads against him for motivation.  Wall Street is EXTREMELY PISSED OFF at Cuomo right now and the Dems know something like this could be taken out on other Democratic candidates if Cuomo does this again, especially in 2016.

[Trainmaster5]

Rational indeed. I 100% respect your statement and could understand your POV. Places in the outer boroughs the last mile is a rough one Co-Op city, Rochdale,Rosedale 100% correct you get off the train then what. No where fast. We have 8.5 Million people in NYC alone tho this last mile issue may plague quite a few. There's still quite a few that don't have this issue. 10% of the population alone is 850k more then the population of San Fransico even if we added the current daily ridership on the subway what 5.4 Million even 10% of that is 540k easy so if only 5-10% of riders had jobs they really needed to during the storm that doesn't warrant service? There are thousands that work security, wall street, healthcare ,hospitality and on and on. On TV and on paper the ban sounds good but in a city of this size nothing is that cut and dry. As for working for the MTA. I have a few friends that work for MTA some high up on Madison and Jay some supervision. you put your 20 plus in. You've worked storms before. your called in before a snowstorm A,B or C division you know the task at hand. Just like sanitation ,City hospitals and so forth it may be a long tour. But show has to go on.. My mom is a RN last year retiring works at Montefiore in the Bronx lives in Westchester she knew she wasn't making it home. The job is the job. Once again 110 years were talking storms in the 1970's and 1980's when the system was in great state disrepair never was there talk of a full system shut down even then. Just coming from someone with a background in urban planning and Civil engineering everything I've learned of the Greenline tunnels in Boston and the IRT in NYC a lot if not all of the necessity of building came from the Blizzard 1888 I'm seeing that more and more in articles popping up so I feel as if I'm not crazy.  So what's changed since you once rode the rails?

Thanks for the reply RailRunRob. I also know the history of the BRT/BMT and the IRT and the contributions they made to the City of New York and the City of Brooklyn. I've been around for over 65 years and seen many changes in that time. You mentioned the" thousands that work security, wall street, healthcare, hospitality" needing transit service that was shut down. Being old school that's the way I thought, too. The problem is that of all the occupations we've listed ....since 9/11/01 only one, healthcare, is considered essential by any government. City, State, Federal. That's what I was trying to point out.initially. Emergency Services and healthcare. That's it. Law enforcement workers (but not private security) and utility workers make the grade too. workers, Postal workers, grocery workers, fish, fruit and vegetable folk, meat market people, hotel workers, (most) airport workers, people who you or I think have to be out there, are deemed non-essential therefore no service is provided. Is this blanket policy right? You don't think so and I don't either. Simply put only those specifically excluded from the highway ban were deemed essential. IIRC during past outages(transit strikes) if that essential person could drive to a terminal or someplace like GCT or Times Square in the IRT or the like possibly a provision would be made to transport that person. This means NYPD, FDNY or EMS generally. Of course that person could usually drive directly to his/her workplace without Transit help. I can also remember a storm where stranded train riders sued the and NYC after service wasn't shut down. That was under Mayor Bloomberg's watch. This time the Governor pre-empted the Mayor and the head of the and made the decision.Political or safety or both ? For better or worse it's over for now. We can debate it, lament it, or ignore the precedent, but if it was legal there's nothing to stop this from becoming the norm. Carry on.

Quick question for Downstate NY residents. Did anyone get their regular US Postal Service residential delivery today ( Tuesday) ? My cousin, a retired letter carrier, said that his people were MIA.