R211 Discussion Thread

[FLX9304]

2 hours ago, LGA Link N Train said:

 

Wouldn’t a Job Pick amongst Train Operators and Conductors solve this issue for qualification? Just have a job pick when the time arises and call it a day. 
 

 

 

 

While (most) 160’s and 179’s are compatible with 8th Avenue CBTC, the 143’s aren’t compatible with other CBTC systems outside Canarsie. 
 

211’s are built for the sole purpose of getting 8th Avenue CBTC Online, so IDK where you’re going with this?

And in the future, the Jamaica Line. I’ve seen R143s operate on the , a line strictly to R160A1s and R179s, and on the Myrtle Ave  when it was OPTO. (Non CBTC). 
 

there are specific train cars built for the purpose of that line or lines that are getting these cars, not because one neighborhood says so. That is done trunk line after trunk line, inspected by DOS. 

[R32 3838]

8 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

That’s BS. They can add any CBTC equippment to any NTT stock. 8th Ave does not “need” the R211’s because of CBTC. It can get the R143, R160, or R179.

LMAO, The R143s can't run on any other CBTC line since their kits are restricted to the line along with R160A-1 8313-8376. There was one time that they ran one of those R160s on the last year but it was only that one time and i never saw that group appear again on the .  You CAN run non CBTC equipment in CBTC territory. I was on one of the trains last week where the CBTC wasn't working so it ran in bypass mode and we had to go at a certain speed since the wayside signals are far apart.

[subwaycommuter1983]

1 hour ago, R32 3838 said:

LMAO, The R143s can't run on any other CBTC line since their kits are restricted to the line along with R160A-1 8313-8376. There was one time that they ran one of those R160s on the last year but it was only that one time and i never saw that group appear again on the .  You CAN run non CBTC equipment in CBTC territory. I was on one of the trains last week where the CBTC wasn't working so it ran in bypass mode and we had to go at a certain speed since the wayside signals are far apart.

Garbage trains (r32's-r42's) run on CBTC territory.

The problem is the service delays and longer wait times that it would cause when SMEEs run on CBTC territory.

[U-BahnNYC]

6 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

The  is full of politics, I wouldn’t be surprised if by 2024 people want the “new shiny subway cars” on the  and relocate the R143’s elsewhere.

Trust me, politics does not care about rolling stock as much as rail fans do. Neither does 99% of the ridership on the subway... 

[U-BahnNYC]

9 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

Some of you guys are really showing your true colors when it come to the R211s going to the and . It's like you guys can't handle the fact that 2 lines that have been screwed for 3 decades by getting leftovers is getting hundreds of fresh new subway cars on top of getting it's signals upgraded. 

Y'all sound over entitled and salty that now the and will get leftovers now. BMT south isn't getting CBTC anytime soon. The majority of the IND is which means lines like the   need to be 100% tech trains. The and is better off getting new cars because besides the R179s which is a small amount due to the fact that it had the oldest subway cars (R32s for 2 decades) and the fact that the R46s are the majority of the line fleet. CIY has the R46s,R68 and R68As. When Concourse gets tech trains, Those R68s will go to coney. Coney will get tech trains for the .

 

So regardless of how y'all feel, The and will still be dominated by R68s during the peak hours. Also the Spare factor for R68s would grow due to the additional option order II R211s.

Yes, it's now the IND's time to shine! The IND is a superior system anyway so I can't wait for its full potential to be unleashed with CBTC and brand new rolling stock. If the drastic service improvement on Queens Blvd is any indication of what is to come the IND system will definitely be a pleasure to ride on in the future. 

Broadway and the South BMT can wait for their turn period. 

Edited February 10, 2023 by U-BahnNYC

[T to Dyre Avenue]

11 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

That’s BS. They can add any CBTC equippment to any NTT stock. 8th Ave does not “need” the R211’s because of CBTC. It can get the R143, R160, or R179.

Not all CBTC equipment is the same. The CBTC equipment on the  cars is older and not compatible with the kind used on QBL. And the R143s and R160s currently assigned to the  are in 4-car sets. So no, 8th Ave can’t just get the R143. It already has 5-car R179 sets on the  and 5-car R160 sets on the . Why not R211s?

[Jemorie]

2 hours ago, U-BahnNYC said:

Yes, it's now the IND's time to shine! The IND is a superior system anyway

Ya’ll say anything. 🙄 This has nothing to do with it being “superior”. This is all about aging signals that are gonna need replacing anyway. The signals on the mainline BMT and mainline IRT will eventually age out and need replacing once signal replacement work on the IND is finish.

Are you gonna say that Canarsie and Flushing are “superior” too? Like… 😑

1 hour ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

Not all CBTC equipment is the same. The CBTC equipment on the  cars is older and not compatible with the kind used on QBL. And the R143s and R160s currently assigned to the  are in 4-car sets. So no, 8th Ave can’t just get the R143. It already has 5-car R179 sets on the  and 5-car R160 sets on the . Why not R211s?

Lawrence St often makes a whole lot of dumb posts in my personal opinion which is why me and him fell out a long time ago. I wish more people would realize that, but whatever floats his and their boats. But anyways, the R211s should only be for the . The  do not need them. The leftover 4-car R179s from the should head back to the BMT East to increase service. 

(Mainly the  since right now, it currently runs up to 9 trains between 8 am and 9 am entering Essex St uptown-bound according to its timetable. It should be 12 trains scheduled on that line in that specific location during the AM Rush, not 9 trains. Also maybe add 4 more trains on that line between 7 am and 8 am entering Essex St uptown-bound. Currently, it’s 6 trains scheduled to pass through that station on that line in said direction during said hour according to the timetable. Also maybe add 2 more trains between 9 am and 10 am. Yeah, I know it costs $$$, but I’m just saying when they have enough funds in the future. The  during the AM Rush always gets packed before Myrtle-Broadway and stays that way all the way up to Herald Sq/Bryant Park/Rockefeller Center and the two 53 St stations.)

The  are better off with 5-car R160s.

[Lawrence St]

5 hours ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

Not all CBTC equipment is the same. The CBTC equipment on the  cars is older and not compatible with the kind used on QBL. And the R143s and R160s currently assigned to the  are in 4-car sets. So no, 8th Ave can’t just get the R143. It already has 5-car R179 sets on the  and 5-car R160 sets on the . Why not R211s?

Ignoring the blatant disrespect in the previous post, why are only 2 people understanding what I’m saying?

I know how CBTC works. I know each line is different except the TA is trying to merge/update the systems so they all work universally. And I was using the R143 as an example, they can very well decide to take them off the , convert them into 5 car sets and put them elsewhere, but that was not the point of the post.

The point of the post was this constant whining “that  and  riders always get old stuff, they deserve new stuff” nonsense. The R211’s, from what I’ve read, we’re not ordered for the sole purpose of 8th Ave, they were ordered to provide fleet expansion, retire the R46’s, and then automation of the system.

But it seems in this thread specifically whenever someone even mentions something about fleet assignments it turns into this gigantic childish argument and no one is willing to listen to the other.

[Lawrence St]

What in that previous post was confusing?

Seriously, am I not explaining something the right way??

[subwaycommuter1983]

1 hour ago, Lawrence St said:

Ignoring the blatant disrespect in the previous post, why are only 2 people understanding what I’m saying?

I know how CBTC works. I know each line is different except the TA is trying to merge/update the systems so they all work universally. And I was using the R143 as an example, they can very well decide to take them off the , convert them into 5 car sets and put them elsewhere, but that was not the point of the post.

The point of the post was this constant whining “that  and  riders always get old stuff, they deserve new stuff” nonsense. The R211’s, from what I’ve read, we’re not ordered for the sole purpose of 8th Ave, they were ordered to provide fleet expansion, retire the R46’s, and then automation of the system.

But it seems in this thread specifically whenever someone even mentions something about fleet assignments it turns into this gigantic childish argument and no one is willing to listen to the other.

So it's not Ok for AC riders to complain, but it's ok for NQW to complain about the old stuff.

I guess not everyone is happy about the 2 most neglected subway lines will be getting some TLC

Edited February 10, 2023 by subwaycommuter1983

[Lawrence St]

28 minutes ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

So it's not Ok for AC riders to complain, but it's ok for NQW to complain about the old stuff.

I guess not everyone is happy about the 2 most neglected subway lines will be getting some TLC

Where in the entirety of this conversation did I say that it’s ok for Broadway riders to complain about the old stuff. 🤦‍♂️

[LTA1992]

Oh. My. Genm.

Can we PLEASE drop this insipid ass discussion?

I lost three years of my life going through the last couple pages and it's a fine example of why I'm barely here anymore. I get there ain't much to talk about for the next few months but please, just PLEASE drop this.

Yall have been rehashing the SAME things for months. MONTHS.

are the only logical places to expect these cars to go first because CBTC. and of course and in case of reroutes. And, you know, Sixth Avenue CBTC will naturally happen after. Why do we keep debating this.

I would NOT be surprised if some of y'all drove @Kamen Rider to drink because....just.....oh my Genm.

...........

Breathe Dex. Just breath. Just be happy this ain't the GTAVI subreddit....

Edited February 10, 2023 by LTA1992

[Bill from Maspeth]

I just want to say a lot of you guys who have posted on the last several pages of this thread have completely lost their minds.

[RTOMan]

Looking at some of these past comments im glad that NONE of you who posted that Babble will have Jobs down here...

Stick to BVE please..

Leave the other stuff to the professionals the ones who get paid to figure these things out or operate the equipment...

[RTOMan]

On 2/9/2023 at 10:58 AM, Kamen Rider said:

Okay.. first off… the R211s are to expand the CBTC capable fleet for the 8th avenue CBTC installation…

 

why the $&@€£¥ would we put them on the N, a line not getting CBTC any time soon?

 

secondly. Crews need to be qualified on new equipment. There are new features and details on the 211s that even we are not aware of yet, let alone you guys.

 

testing them on every line requires every line to have qualified crews that can take the train at a moments notice or have a dedicated crew that follows the train from line to line.

the chaos comes in because this idea would interfere with the crew assignments because, again, you’re tossing in a train not everyone knows how to handle.

Karen after you posted that more comments that are irrelevant..

 

[FLX9304]

10 hours ago, Jemorie said:

Ya’ll say anything. 🙄 This has nothing to do with it being “superior”. This is all about aging signals that are gonna need replacing anyway. The signals on the mainline BMT and mainline IRT will eventually age out and need replacing once signal replacement work on the IND is finish.

Are you gonna say that Canarsie and Flushing are “superior” too? Like… 😑

Lawrence St often makes a whole lot of dumb posts in my personal opinion which is why me and him fell out a long time ago. I wish more people would realize that, but whatever floats his and their boats. But anyways, the R211s should only be for the . The  do not need them. The leftover 4-car R179s from the should head back to the BMT East to increase service. 

(Mainly the  since right now, it currently runs up to 9 trains between 8 am and 9 am entering Essex St uptown-bound according to its timetable. It should be 12 trains scheduled on that line in that specific location during the AM Rush, not 9 trains. Also maybe add 4 more trains on that line between 7 am and 8 am entering Essex St uptown-bound. Currently, it’s 6 trains scheduled to pass through that station on that line in said direction during said hour according to the timetable. Also maybe add 2 more trains between 9 am and 10 am. Yeah, I know it costs $$$, but I’m just saying when they have enough funds in the future. The  during the AM Rush always gets packed before Myrtle-Broadway and stays that way all the way up to Herald Sq/Bryant Park/Rockefeller Center and the two 53 St stations.)

The  are better off with 5-car R160s.

What part of “the cars are going to the  and “ don’t u understand? 

[Jemorie]

9 minutes ago, FLX9304 said:

What part of “the cars are going to the  and “ don’t u understand? 

Sit down kid. Lol.

You pointlessly felt the need to reply to my comment after one person said let’s chill out and wait. Lol.

I said what I said. Get over it.

[FLX9304]

15 minutes ago, Jemorie said:

Sit down kid. Lol.

You pointlessly felt the need to reply to my comment after one person said let’s chill out and wait. Lol.

I said what I said. Get over it.

Who said I was loling? 
1. I’m no kid. 
2. you’re gonna learn that you can’t have things your way 

3. pick on someone in your league because you’re not on my level bc YDKMTW

Edited February 10, 2023 by FLX9304

[Jemorie]

3 minutes ago, FLX9304 said:

Who said I was loling? 
1. I’m no kid. 
2. you’re gonna learn that you can’t have things your way 

3. pick on someone in your league because you’re not on my level. 

Okay tough guy/keyboard warrior. Lmao.

Learn how to handle different opinions.

[U-BahnNYC]

7 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Ignoring the blatant disrespect in the previous post, why are only 2 people understanding what I’m saying?

I know how CBTC works. I know each line is different except the TA is trying to merge/update the systems so they all work universally. And I was using the R143 as an example, they can very well decide to take them off the , convert them into 5 car sets and put them elsewhere, but that was not the point of the post.

The point of the post was this constant whining “that  and  riders always get old stuff, they deserve new stuff” nonsense. The R211’s, from what I’ve read, we’re not ordered for the sole purpose of 8th Ave, they were ordered to provide fleet expansion, retire the R46’s, and then automation of the system.

But it seems in this thread specifically whenever someone even mentions something about fleet assignments it turns into this gigantic childish argument and no one is willing to listen to the other.

Do you hear yourself? - why in the world would the (supposedly) cash and resource strapped TA spend time doing a pointless overhaul of the R143 fleet which was meant for the and only the  to do some really, really strange idea you pulled out of your you-know-where. 

If you've read any official MTA memo the past, uhhh 5 years, it says in no uncertain terms the R211 are going to the  and lines. Periodt. No amount of hypothetical scenarios you keep making up (for what reason?) are going to change that fact. Nobody is turning 8-car R143s into 10 car systems (the headache of doing this aside - would that even be possible?!)

I'm done. 

[Lawrence St]

1 minute ago, U-BahnNYC said:

Do you hear yourself? - why in the world would the (supposedly) cash and resource strapped TA spend time doing a pointless overhaul of the R143 fleet which was meant for the and only the  to do some really, really strange idea you pulled out of your you-know-where. 

If you've read any official MTA memo the past, uhhh 5 years, it says in no uncertain terms the R211 are going to the  and lines. Periodt. No amount of hypothetical scenarios you keep making up (for what reason?) are going to change that fact. Nobody is turning 8-car R143s into 10 car systems (the headache of doing this aside - would that even be possible?!)

I'm done. 

They said the same thing about the R160’s on the .

Im done.

[U-BahnNYC]

6 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

They said the same thing about the R160’s on the .

Im done.

Okay. If you want to live out an alternate universe in your mind, feel free to. Let's check back by year's end and see how your "theories" pan out. 

[Lawrence St]

1 hour ago, U-BahnNYC said:

Okay. If you want to live out an alternate universe in your mind, feel free to. Let's check back by year's end and see how your "theories" pan out. 

Your the only one here making it seem like I WANT this to happen when I said, time and time again, that the point of that post was an EXAMPLE.

[subwaycommuter1983]

13 hours ago, Jemorie said:

Ya’ll say anything. 🙄 This has nothing to do with it being “superior”. This is all about aging signals that are gonna need replacing anyway. The signals on the mainline BMT and mainline IRT will eventually age out and need replacing once signal replacement work on the IND is finish.

Are you gonna say that Canarsie and Flushing are “superior” too? Like… 😑

Lawrence St often makes a whole lot of dumb posts in my personal opinion which is why me and him fell out a long time ago. I wish more people would realize that, but whatever floats his and their boats. But anyways, the R211s should only be for the . The  do not need them. The leftover 4-car R179s from the should head back to the BMT East to increase service. 

(Mainly the  since right now, it currently runs up to 9 trains between 8 am and 9 am entering Essex St uptown-bound according to its timetable. It should be 12 trains scheduled on that line in that specific location during the AM Rush, not 9 trains. Also maybe add 4 more trains on that line between 7 am and 8 am entering Essex St uptown-bound. Currently, it’s 6 trains scheduled to pass through that station on that line in said direction during said hour according to the timetable. Also maybe add 2 more trains between 9 am and 10 am. Yeah, I know it costs $$$, but I’m just saying when they have enough funds in the future. The  during the AM Rush always gets packed before Myrtle-Broadway and stays that way all the way up to Herald Sq/Bryant Park/Rockefeller Center and the two 53 St stations.)

The  are better off with 5-car R160s.

In terms of ridership, it does make more sense for the C to get all 10 car r179's plus r160's from Jamaica. However, the MTA confirmed that the A and C will get the base order of r211's.

Let's not forget that 8th Avenue CBTC will include 59th Street/Columbus Circle, which means that the B and D will need NTTs. Concourse will most likely get a piece of the first option order of r211's.

The open gang way trains have been testing well, so I wouldn't be surprised if the 2nd option will be 100% r211T's. If that is the case, then the E and F trains can keep all the open gangway trains, while the A, B, C, D trains can keep the r211A's, although it's possible for the B to get the r160's instead of r211A's.

[ABCDEFGJLMNQRSSSWZ]

This is a weird question, but are there any sharp curves in the system the open gangway R211Ts won't be able to handle and hence eliminates said line(s) from ever getting them?

I tend to agree the  and  would be best served by the open gangways just cause of high ridership and crowding.

Seems like the MTA is upgrading the whole IND first and then will focus more on the BMT. Given the IND lines tend to have higher ridership, I think this is probably a good idea. The BMT has a lot of awkward junctions and merges where CBTC would be useful, but BMT trains can generally afford to be spaced further apart cause there's basically no high high ridership lines (outside the which is Independent at this point anyways).

I agree with what others have been saying though. No individual line or riders "deserve" the new cars any more than others. Consider too NYC is a very transient place and that there's probably little crossover between say regular  train riders of even just 10 years ago and  train riders now.

Also, there are probably a lot of folks who actually prefer the R46