Department of Subways - Proposals/Ideas

[Armandito]

Again, my other subway proposal is a subway under Stuyvesant Av and Utica Av connecting to the train at Montrose Av. Should it connect to the or should it be a line of its own?

Edited August 15, 2014 by lara8710

[T to Dyre Avenue]

The does not need extra service, no overcrowding (yet)

You should run the down 4th Avenue local and to 95th Street with the , to provide much needed extra service.

The doesn't need to duplicate the all the way to 95th St. As far as 36th St, yes. The should branch off at 36th and operate to/from Bay Pkwy via the line during rush hours and to/from Whitehall middays. It doesn't need to run after 7-8 pm weekdays or during late nights or weekends. Edited August 17, 2014 by T to Dyre Avenue

[T to Dyre Avenue]

My proposal: Orange

All Stops from Bay Parkway - 9th Avenue (ALL TIMES except Late Night)

Runs via 4th Avenue local from 36th to Atlantic to provide direct connection to , and of course extra service

Switches to the .

Runs from Canal to 57th Street via Broadway local, reverts back to express service.

Then, goes to 63rd Street - Lexington Ave to the .

Runs via QBL to Continental.

Late Nights service suspended.

Provides extra service on West End, Broadway, and Queens Boulevard.

What do you think?

If it's going to run via Broadway, then shouldn't this V service be shown in yellow? And does Queens Blvd really need a third local service that basically duplicates the R in Queens, then duplicates the F in the 63rd St tunnel (whose stations already get more service than they need)?

[Union Tpke]

If it's going to run via Broadway, then shouldn't this V service be shown in yellow? And does Queens Blvd really need a third local service that basically duplicates the R in Queens, then duplicates the F in the 63rd St tunnel (whose stations already get more service than they need)?

Totally agree, this is a horrendus idea.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

If this V service via Broadway ran to/from the Astoria Line via the 60th St Tunnel and then ran via the Montague Tunnel and did everything else he proposed, then it might not be so bad. But then, that's something I already posted:

The doesn't need to duplicate the all the way to 95th St. As far as 36th St, yes. The should branch off at 36th and operate to/from Bay Pkwy via the line during rush hours and to/from Whitehall middays. It doesn't need to run after 7-8 pm weekdays or during late nights or weekends.

[Wallyhorse]

If this V service via Broadway ran to/from the Astoria Line via the 60th St Tunnel and then ran via the Montague Tunnel and did everything else he proposed, then it might not be so bad. But then, that's something I already posted:

Or if you rebuilt the Myrtle Avenue El as I would with the line going underground after Navy Street and joining the Montauge Street line, that could be your Brooklyn portion of the that could run to Astoria on weekdays and to Whitehall Street or even (as the SAS would be open by the time this would happen if it ever did) be an supplement to the nights and weekends, running with the (which also shows the shortcommings of not building 72nd Street as originally planned with three tracks).

[TheNewYorkElevated]

Here's a service proposal for the Lexington Avenue Line. I've decided to do my first one for the numbered lines since my proposals for the   and   were a success.

 

 Service Plan

Rush hour serivce to Atlantic Avenue-Barclays Center. Middays extended to Bowling Green as of a solution to solve the problem riders get with the  line's service schedule, therefore that line will continuously run to Flatbush. All other times, the will run its normal current Brooklyn Bridge-Pelham Bay Park route. 

 

Do you like this one, or I need more improvement?

[RollOver]

No, because you'll just backup regular service....Atlantic Av isn't meant to be a terminal.... 

[Union Tpke]

No, because you'll just backup regular service....Atlantic Av isn't meant to be a terminal.... 

well it was used for one afternoon 6 train from 3 Av 138 St during the summer of 1985.

[bobtehpanda]

well it was used for one afternoon 6 train from 3 Av 138 St during the summer of 1985.

 

There's a difference between one train and all rush hour service...

 

If you look at the Hub-Bound traffic studies, the Brooklyn IRT is not actually super congested compared to other crossings.

[RollOver]

well it was used for one afternoon 6 train from 3 Av 138 St during the summer of 1985.

 

And what does that mean? Once again, Atlantic Av is a through service station, not a terminal station. And it makes no sense for the to extend three stops down to Bowling Green "just so the can go to Brooklyn" during weekends.

 

There's a difference between one train and all rush hour service...

 

If you look at the Hub-Bound traffic studies, the Brooklyn IRT is not actually super congested compared to other crossings.

 

Maybe, maybe not. Take a look at the Rogers Junction, Utica and Flatbush terminals, and then get back to me.

[bobtehpanda]

And what does that mean? Once again, Atlantic Av is a through service station, not a terminal station. And it makes no sense for the to extend three stops down to Bowling Green "just so the can go to Brooklyn" during weekends.

 

 

Maybe, maybe not. Take a look at the Rogers Junction, Utica and Flatbush terminals, and then get back to me.

 

By congested, I mean people passing through the tunnels. Rogers and the terminals will always be capacity constraints, but that doesn't necessarily mean we have to extend large amounts of off-peak trains into Brooklyn.

 

The MTA has identified reconfiguring Rogers/Nostrand Junction as a long-term project, although whether or not that'll make it into the next Capital Plan is anybody's guess. However, as it stands right now, the Hub Bound Study lists the 2/3 and 4/5 in Brooklyn as some of the trains with the most floor space per passenger available.

[RollOver]

My mistake.

 

I do agree that all four of those lines should be on a 10 minute headway, though I still don't see much of a difference however. Yes, I know how nearly empty those four lines end up leaving the CBDs during the off-peak.

Edited August 20, 2014 by RollOver

[TheNewYorkElevated]

No, because you'll just backup regular service....Atlantic Av isn't meant to be a terminal.... 

Well, observe this map, and look at Atlantic Avenue where the  , , ,and  are. There is a middle track from Atlantic and Nevins where, and that can serve room for the  . See why I suggested the rush hour extension?

[biGC323232]

trains are not needed in brooklyn especially during rush hour...In my opinion that will cause congestion in two area's...City Hall and Atlantic Ave...

 

Middays   Trains can handle Bowling Green...Have to agree with rollover on this one 

[Lance]

@NY Elevated: There's a serious problem with your 6 train proposal. Even if there was demand for a local service to Brooklyn from the Lex, that service cannot terminate at Atlantic Av. Unless those trains deadhead to Utica Av or somewhere else, they will create a conga line of delays along Lexington Ave because the express tracks at Atlantic Av are being used as a terminal for one service while still being a set of through-tracks for other services. You can't have that, especially at the height of the rush hours.

[N6 Limited]

Wait, why retire the older trains when they can use them to run short opto trains at night at 10 min headway?

[T to Dyre Avenue]

Or if you rebuilt the Myrtle Avenue El as I would with the line going underground after Navy Street and joining the Montauge Street line, that could be your Brooklyn portion of the that could run to Astoria on weekdays and to Whitehall Street or even (as the SAS would be open by the time this would happen if it ever did) be an supplement to the nights and weekends, running with the (which also shows the shortcommings of not building 72nd Street as originally planned with three tracks).

One word: No!

 

Reread your own posts about elevating the SAS above 125th St, in the SAS Construction thread. Then read all the responses from other posters, including myself, to see why that's a bad idea. Then apply them here. Because it would be the exact same scenario. You'd have to deal with residents, politicians and merchants all along Myrtle Ave who don't want an el casting an uninviting shadow over the street and don't want to have to deal with all the construction that will come with building said el. Not to mention, there's the just a few blocks away on Lafayette Ave. Even the section of Myrtle that doesn't have the running parallel to it is not far from the , and trains at Myrtle Ave/Broadway. And does the upper portion of Myrtle that still has the really need a second service? And would you really want the MTA, the State and the Feds to spend gigantic sums of money to rebuild an el that almost no one wants and that largely parallels an existing subway line? And for a  service that doesn't even need to run 24/7?

 

Well, observe this map, and look at Atlantic Avenue where the  , , ,and  are. There is a middle track from Atlantic and Nevins where, and that can serve room for the  . See why I suggested the rush hour extension?

 

Except the switches are in the wrong place to turn back a service coming from Manhattan. If those switches were closer to Nevins Street, then maybe your idea could be somewhat feasible, because then a terminating train could leave Nevins and pull into the middle track and wait for uptown trains to pass before going back into Nevins. But with the switches located just outside of Atlantic, any train that terminates there has to reverse out of the station on the same track it came in on, then cross to the middle track, then cross to the uptown track to go back into Atlantic. I don't think you can even imagine what kind of delays this would cause on trains continuing to Utica, Flatbush or New Lots Ave, or trains coming from those stops.

 

Even if the switches were closer to Nevins, it would still have to be a very limited service due to the high rush hour frequency of the and trains. And you'd still have to deal with congestion at Brooklyn Bridge station, because the would have to merge with the and just before Brooklyn Bridge and slow everything down.

[RollOver]

Well, observe this map, and look at Atlantic Avenue where the  , , ,and  are. There is a middle track from Atlantic and Nevins where, and that can serve room for the  . See why I suggested the rush hour extension?

 

I've observed the entire subway track map on every line already...there's no need for a in Brooklyn...we already have enough delays at Rogers Junction, Utica and Flatbush as is (primarily during rush hours)...

[TheNewYorkElevated]

 

 

Except the switches are in the wrong place to turn back a service coming from Manhattan. If those switches were closer to Nevins Street, then maybe your idea could be somewhat feasible, because then a terminating train could leave Nevins and pull into the middle track and wait for uptown trains to pass before going back into Nevins. But with the switches located just outside of Atlantic, any train that terminates there has to reverse out of the station on the same track it came in on, then cross to the middle track, then cross to the uptown track to go back into Atlantic. I don't think you can even imagine what kind of delays this would cause on trains continuing to Utica, Flatbush or New Lots Ave, or trains coming from those stops.

 

Even if the switches were closer to Nevins, it would still have to be a very limited service due to the high rush hour frequency of the and trains. And you'd still have to deal with congestion at Brooklyn Bridge station, because the would have to merge with the and just before Brooklyn Bridge and slow everything down.

 

trains are not needed in brooklyn especially during rush hour...In my opinion that will cause congestion in two area's...City Hall and Atlantic Ave...

 

Middays   Trains can handle Bowling Green...Have to agree with rollover on this one 

 

@NY Elevated: There's a serious problem with your 6 train proposal. Even if there was demand for a local service to Brooklyn from the Lex, that service cannot terminate at Atlantic Av. Unless those trains deadhead to Utica Av or somewhere else, they will create a conga line of delays along Lexington Ave because the express tracks at Atlantic Av are being used as a terminal for one service while still being a set of through-tracks for other services. You can't have that, especially at the height of the rush hours.

Okay, okay... You all guys (especially Lance and T to Dyre) win on this one. I'm a think about this, and do I revised plan that will be more organized and smarter.

[MTA Dude]

Is a weekend train extention to Queens Plaza for a transfer to QBL needed?

[DailyDose]

No, take the one stop and transfer.

[TheNewYorkElevated]

I thought of the mistake I did with my previous Lexington Avenue plan. So, here's the revised Lexington Avenue Service Plan with special additions.

 

The Revised Lexington Avenue Service

No changes for the   (as expected) . However for the other 2...

-Runs to Flatbush Avenue all weekday times except weekends. This also goes for its PM rush hour service to Nereid Avenue with the  . A rush hour service to Wakefield-241st is a suggestion, but that's up to you guys if that is okay.

-Rush hours to Bowling Green to help with current  and   overcrowding until construction on the Fulton Street Transit Center is 100% complete. 2 selected (yes I am going to say it again) selected trains will run to Atlantic Avenue-Barclays Center to solve the problem of what Lance said before this revise as a "conga line of delays along Lexington Avenue". All other times, including weekends, will run its usual City Hall-Pelham Bay Park route.

 

Any improvements I need to make, just let me know.

I hope you like this revised version. I can make a another one if you all think this isn't a good one.

[MTA Dude]

I thought of the mistake I did with my previous Lexington Avenue plan. So, here's the revised Lexington Avenue Service Plan with special additions.

 

The Revised Lexington Avenue Service

No changes for the (as expected) . However for the other 2...

-Runs to Flatbush Avenue all weekday times except weekends. This also goes for its PM rush hour service to Nereid Avenue with the . A rush hour service to Wakefield-241st is a suggestion, but that's up to you guys if that is okay.

-Rush hours to Bowling Green to help with current and overcrowding until construction on the Fulton Street Transit Center is 100% complete. 2 selected (yes I am going to say it again) selected trains will run to Atlantic Avenue-Barclays Center to solve the problem of what Lance said before this revise as a "conga line of delays along Lexington Avenue". All other times, including weekends, will run its usual City Hall-Pelham Bay Park route.

 

Any improvements I need to make, just let me know.

I hope you like this revised version. I can make a another one if you all think this isn't a good one.

Here's what I think of it.

 

The doesn't need service to Brooklyn. In 2005, I think, the ran between Bowling Green and Bronx (I'm not gonna try to spell it) except rush hours to Brooklyn. Then it was increased to run to Brooklyn in middays. This is pretty much proving that the extension isn't needed, and by the time evening hits, most people have gone home already.

 

About the , you will be causing congestion between Canal Street and Bowling Green to all , , and trains. and run at 2 minutes, and so does the . Put them together and you would have a conga line of delayed trains coming into Bowling Green every minute. And those 2 select trains still are gonna create delays, because as I said earlier, the and trains run at about 2 minute intervals, and squishing a in means you will have to get the to terminate, and leave immediately. It will also delay and trains because they run at about 3 minute intervals. Holding the is required for the action, and that hold will delay / trains.

Edited August 21, 2014 by MTA Dude

[T to Dyre Avenue]

Those two select trains will delay and trains in both directions at Atlantic for the reason I described upthread. Those extra trains won't do anything to relieve overcrowding. If anything, it might make it worse due to the complex switching move I described. And Lance said the "conga line" would result from turning trains at Atlantic. If there are no trains turning at Atlantic, there's no conga line. Your new idea still has two trains reversing at Atlantic, so problem not solved.

Edited August 21, 2014 by T to Dyre Avenue