Department of Subways - Proposals/Ideas

[LTA1992]

The Manhattan portion of the line would fill out the extra capacity that would exist on the 1st Avenue Trunk Line as well as providing an extension of the via 10th Avenue to Washington Heights. The 10th Avenue Line would be two tracks, with the 8th Avenue station on the being rebuilt to three tracks to terminate half of its trains. Doing that would provide room for the trains coming from the Northern Boulevard Local tracks. Above 57th Street, the line would be 4-Tracks with 1st Avenue Super Expresses serving as 10th Avenue Express via 57th Street. I've decided to only show Manhattan in this post.

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To save space, I just did an overview of the Manhattan, Bronx, and Queens sections.

 

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The Red Line is Phase II. This it in relation to the other lines. The East Broadway station would provide a transfer with the and routes.

 

 

The southern limit of the 10th Avenue Line. The 8th Avenue station would be rebuilt to three tracks to terminate half the inbound trains. The 10th Avenue trains terminate on their own platform. The line from 57 Street to this point would be two tracks wide.

 

 

I've spaced stations further out on this line, even the local stations on the upper half. 

 

 

The connection with the 57th Street-Crosstown Line. I almost placed a station on the 57th Street Line at 9th Avenue to provide a transfer, but I chose not to. The logic here is that if any riders want to get off at 57th Street in the 10th Avenue area, they could take the . 57 Street trains would not stop until Broadway. From the south are 10th Avenue trains that will cross 57th Street to run as Northern Boulevard Locals to Douglaston. From the north, are 10th Avenue Express trains that would cross 57th Street, then head south via 1st Avenue Super Express to Brooklyn and SI.

 

 

The junction at 1st Avenue is more complex. From the East, you have trains coming from Northern Boulevard. Northern Boulevard Expresses from Little Neck would run south as regular expresses to Brooklyn and SI while NBL Locals would head crosstown to 10th Avenue.

 

 

Now, I could have had express trains stop at 63 Street for transfers with the , but then I thought that people could transfer at Broadway for the . This allowed me to make a proper express transfer at 72 Street.

 

 

Not much explanation here. I wanted the 10th Avenue Locals to make less stops than the Broadway Locals since they are very close.

 

 

Again, not much explanation needed. I didn't give City College an express station because of its smaller size compared to Columbia.

 

 

This was actually hard to come up with. From the get go, I did not want trains running into The Bronx. I did , however, want to provide a secondary route to the GWB. I also originally did not want to provide an express station at 175 Street. Then I thought from the eyes of a passenger who is looking to get from the GWB to The Bronx. That was when that changed.

 

 

This is the Manhattan Portion. The Bronx will be next, then finally Queens. But that's it for today. This is really repetitive and repetitive actions bore me...I've gotten bored lol.

Edited April 7, 2015 by LTA1992

[Union Tpke]

What exactly is the benefit of getting rid of one of the easiest transfer stations in Queens, and replacing it with a transfer that 1. already exists at Jackson Heights, and 2. is going to be a pain in the ass to use?

How is it going to be inconvenient. There will still be a transfer between the 7 and the N and a new one with the E M R.

Also, this will cut some time on the line.

A similar proposal was proposed in the '80s to have the 7 run via Sunnyside Yards. This is a better proposal than that.

[RollOver]

Alright, so according to my math and calculations, the running time between 207 St and Lefferts Blvd is an hour and 12 minutes, whereas the running time between 207 St and Far Rock is an hour and a half. This is when the is running express. Midday, evening and weekend headways are 10 minutes (west of Rockaway Blvd) and 20 minutes (east of Rockaway Blvd). 18 trainsets are running - half of which are R32s and the other half being R46s. 8 trains run to and from Lefferts, all of which are R46s, whereas 10 trains run to and from Far Rock (one set being R46s and the rest being R32s). The rest of the standby R32s and R46s on the fleet are out of service (stored at both 207 and Pitkin yards as spares, while 5 trainsets of R32s are stored at Rock Park yard until the AM rush).

 

Now for the 207 St terminal:

 

Let's say an R32 from Far Rock is scheduled to come by 1:04 p.m. and is scheduled to leave 6 minutes later (heading back to Far Rock). And let's say an R46 from Lefferts is scheduled to come by 1:14 p.m. and is scheduled to leave 6 minutes later (heading back to Lefferts). If there was a delay (east of Rockaway Blvd), then that results in a 40 minute gap. And for riders west of Rockaway Blvd, then's a 20 minute gap. An R32 from Far Rock comes first, then an R46 from Lefferts which is two minutes behind. The R32 from Far Rock comes to 207 St by 1:14 p.m. instead of its regular schedule at 1:04 p.m. Then, the R46 from Lefferts comes to 207 St by 1:16 p.m. The R46 gets to leave 4 minutes after, since a Lefferts train is scheduled to leave at 1:20 p.m., followed by a Far Rock train at 1:30 p.m. The R32 sits in the station until its scheduled departure time. Another R32 would come into the station at 1:24 p.m. (if running on time) and could either sit in the station until 1:50 p.m. (its scheduled departure time) or just simply be removed from service and sent to the 207 yard or Dyckman layup. An R46 would come into the station at 1:34 p.m. (if running on time) or 1:39 p.m. (if running an additional 5 minutes late). Despite that, it would still be able to pull out at its scheduled departure time (1:40 p.m.).

 

Now if there is any impassable problems on the Lefferts branch, an R46 should be rerouted to Howard Beach. The running time to Howard Beach is roughly the same as the running time to Lefferts anyway. The only problem is the relay south of Howard Beach. The R46 drops out at Howard Beach, then 5 minutes later (give or take), it proceeds to the relay. The next train behind, which is an R32 to Far Rockaway, should be running on time. In the meantime, the rerouted R46 would probably have to wait for a Manhattan-bound R32 already arriving in the station. After that R32 leaves, then the R46 can come from the relay, dwell in the station until it's set to go (the departure time would be the same as Lefferts, so it's not much of a difference). Now if there is any impassable problems on one of the drawbridges across Jamaica Bay, then have the R32s turn at Howard Beach instead and re-direct riders to a shuttle bus to Broad Channel and/or the Rockaways. And if there is any impassable problems at Aqueduct, North Conduit, Howard Beach or Broad Channel instead, then obviously, yes, have the R32s be rerouted to Lefferts. In these scenarios, headways would still remain relatively the same regardless. No trains would get turn at Euclid annoyingly under these scenarios, especially when headways are 40% (west of Rockaway Blvd) and 20% (east of Rockaway Blvd). Of course, I know this may not be easy or agreeable.

 

Lastly, according to my math and calculations, the runs about 10 trainsets (5 trains of R32s and 5 trains of R46s) at night when it's making all local stops, where the running time between 207 St and Far Rock is an hour and 41 minutes, as well as headways being 20 minutes apart between trains.

Edited April 7, 2015 by RollOver

[bobtehpanda]

How is it going to be inconvenient. There will still be a transfer between the 7 and the N and a new one with the E M R.

Also, this will cut some time on the line.

A similar proposal was proposed in the '80s to have the 7 run via Sunnyside Yards. This is a better proposal than that.

 

Well, the and is literally cross-platform.

 

I propose a large undertaking on the IRT Flushing Line. I would convert the Flushing Line to B Division standards. In the process, a new tunnel would be built under the East River replacing the Steinway Tubes. Platforms would be lengthened to 660 feet. The R188s would be displaced to the Main Line IRT to replace the R62/R62As. New B Division subway cars would be ordered for the . 

I would reroute the via the Crosstown Line after the new tunnel going to 21 Street on the Crosstown coming out after Court Square emerging to an elevated structure over Jackson Avenue merging with the current IRT Flushing Line. Queensboro Plaza would be demolished. A new station would be built above the current IND Queens Plaza station is. A transfer would be established between the two. A new station on the Astoria Line would be built at 21st Street.

 

There is no - connection mentioned here, since the (G)'s 21st St station is very far from 21st on the Astoria. Even the existing 7EFMR connection is kind of inconvenient, and they're in the same building. A at Queens Plaza would run into the exact same problems.

[Wallyhorse]

That's not really "crosstown", though. The and aren't that far apart from each other, and there's no evidence of demand from Western Queens to the Bronx like that. In fact, there used to be a bus that ran that route, but it was discontinued.

 

 

Why not just use the North Shore?

That's possible, but I was also doing it quickly and was looking at Google Maps.  Other than the transfers to/from the and I was looking in an extension to The Bronx for areas that didn't have service and while I have it going underground after Food Service Drive could also be elevated as well.   Jacobi Medical Center to me would be a very important station whether the terminal or not in such a extension of the .

 

For now, it would be the easiest way to have a train go from Queens to the Bronx without going through Manhattan.

[LTA1992]

Today, I will be showing off the Bronx and Queens sections of Phase II, and how they connect with the existing system and Phase I. Queens will be in the succeeding post.

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This is an overview of the Bronx lines. The Red and line is Phase II. The Green line is also phase II. As part of the Northern Boulevard line, the Crosstown would be extended over that line then north to The Bronx. This will provide direct Queens-Bronx service. More improvements will come in the supplementary Light Rail lines of Phase III. But there will be more details on that at the end of the Queens post as it's still in the preliminary stages of thought.

 

 

The western end of the Tremont Avenue Crosstown Line. Fun fact, The Bronx has actually asked for a Tremont Avenue line before.It wa also in Daniel Turners plans for subway expansion in the 1920s, some of which came into existence one way or another as part of the IND. Anywho, I was thinking that due to the elevation of the cliffs on both sides of the Harlem River, the line would cross as an elevated bridge and just did into both sides to run as subway. Had there been an IND station at 176 Street, I could have placed a station at Walton Avenue. Then have transfer passages to the at both ends. But I settled for Jerome for transfers with the . 

 

 

Just imagining the development this area would undergo with the addition of this line intrigues me. At this location, transfers can be made to the along with the Boston Road Line.

 

 

Here shows the northern extreme of the Bronx-Queens connection. The serves it. Residents of Parkchester can get to any point of the city with ease. Trains to Washington Heights and the West side, South Bronx and East Side of Manhattan to SI and Brooklyn, and direct service to Northeastern Queens and Flushing specifically and via LIC to Brooklyn. The options from this location are almost endless. That is the level of connectivity that I am trying to bring here. 

 

 

Not much need for explanation here. I thought that Castle Hill Avenue provided the most convenient route to Queens.

 

 

Transfers with the South Bronx Line are provided at Lafayette Avenue.

 

 

From the get-go, I had planned for the South Bronx Line to have a physical connection to the Tremont Avenue-Crosstown line.

 

This is the Bronx portion. Queens is next, stand clear.

[LTA1992]

This is the final part of the Phase II expansion. The Northern Boulevard Line and it's Bronx and Whitestone branches. This line exists to relieve the of its crowding and open up new areas for higher density development. More jobs, more homes.

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Coming from 57th Street, 21st Street is the first stop. The would be extended from it's current terminus via a new connection to a new Queens Plaza station as the one of two locals on this line. The other being the 57th Street-10th Avenue line. A connection can easily be built into the walls of the current tunnel, just like what was done at 149th Street-G.C. The line would run either over the Queens Blvd express tunnels. Though that depends on how deep the tunnels actually are. If they are shallow, then the Local trains can run on the same level as the QB Express, with the NBL Expresses running below. There would be transfers with the at B'way and Northern Boulevard. Not at 36 St. Queens Plaza would be the next available transfer.

 

 

I almost didn't put a station at 126 Street. But then Citi Field came into the picture and I just added it. At Main Street, there would be a transfer tunnel between the NBL and the Flushing Lines Main Street station. This is actually to provide options and reduce the number of people on the actual street. This tunnel would have fare arrays at each street crossed and bus lines would be reconfigured, if possible, to be more spread out and terminate at one of the entrances. This should reduce sidewalk congestion.

 

After Main Street, the would turn north and run to The Bronx, providing College Point with service. This would reduce the Q44 of it's crowding and actually may end up reducing its route length to just Queens. The Bronx section could be replaced by a new Bx55. The passengers travelling between The Bronx and Queens could take the and transfer elsewhere. Phase III would essentially wipe out the Q44 all together.

 

 

The easternmost sections of the line. Service that had first been asked for since 1911 could now be achieved.

 

 

 

 

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This is it for Phase II. Phase III would be all light rail to supplement the system and replace the busiest bus routes in the outer boroughs and fill out more empty spots where Heavy Rail would not be as useful. Triboro RX will be a part of it, but it would only run as far as Broadway Junction. That's how I'm currently seeing it.

[MTA Dude]

Please, just leave the alone.

[LTA1992]

I did leave the alone aside from the new transfer passage at Main Street. I'm helping the . Isn't that what people wanted? With this new line, all the could have to really worry about is passengers coming from points south. The NBL would handle passengers from the north. Then, the two would share the riders in between the two. 

[RollOver]

I did leave the alone aside from the new transfer passage at Main Street. I'm helping the . Isn't that what people wanted? With this new line, all the could have to really worry about is passengers coming from points south. The NBL would handle passengers from the north. Then, the two would share the riders in between the two. 

 

Exactly. Similar to the IRT B'way-7 Av Line and IND CPW/8 Av Line at the west side, as well as the Lex and SAS at the east side. Piece of cake.

Edited April 8, 2015 by RollOver

[LTA1992]

I've thought it out a lot with these proposals. And to think, it all came from the thought that the current SAS will never meet this city's needs even with extensions.

 

I'll begin work on Phase III in the morning. I already have a few corridors thought of though none will be in Manhattan as it currently has all it needs.

[Wallyhorse]

I did leave the alone aside from the new transfer passage at Main Street. I'm helping the . Isn't that what people wanted? With this new line, all the could have to really worry about is passengers coming from points south. The NBL would handle passengers from the north. Then, the two would share the riders in between the two. 

Exactly.  This new line looks like it will do a lot if it can ever be done.

[LTA1992]

The only big issue with the additions of these lines is the naming system. There are only so many letters in the alphabet. These lines, naturally, would be all B Division specs. Which means that the addition of 6 routes from the Phase I, plus the 4 routes of Phase II, that brings the total number of B division routes to 23 with my revisions included. All Shuttles are included as one since they share . If the were to ever get over their issues with certain letters, then more can be used. If not, then that would mean that the entire naming system would need to be flipped with A division getting letters A-G. B division would get numbers 1-21. All shuttles would remain . Phase III would facilitate that change and thus, a new service guide will be posted when completed.

[Brooklyn]

I did leave the alone aside from the new transfer passage at Main Street. I'm helping the . Isn't that what people wanted? With this new line, all the could have to really worry about is passengers coming from points south. The NBL would handle passengers from the north. Then, the two would share the riders in between the two. 

 

A Northern Blvd line would be a winner---stress would be taken off both the Flushing and Queens Blvd lines. It would be a nice short and sweet route.

 

I've had ideas about that and where it would terminate in Manhattan. I was thinking it go into Manhattan as a 42nd st crosstown with the ...of course, the 42nd street stretch would have to be rebuilt with additional tracks, though.

 

In another universe, I would rebuild the 42nd street stretch with 6 tracks--room for the , the new Northern Blvd line AND a full time QB local terminating at 179th street. Maybe the Northern Blvd line would go to Penn Station.

[Javier]

Can someone please explain why the and share the same terminals, and why the is extended to Crown Heights Utica and Neird Ave during Rush Hours.

[MysteriousBtrain]

Can someone please explain why the and share the same terminals, and why the is extended to Crown Heights Utica and Neird Ave during Rush Hours.

They share the same terminal because they share the same rolling stock. As for the rush hour specials, capacity issues (Brooklyn) and for extra service (Bronx) on the Lex and WPR.

[Javier]

Hmm, so i guess its not possible to run limited rush hour service to Burnside Ave via Bronx Exp?

[S78 via Hylan]

Hmm, so i guess its not possible to run limited rush hour service to Burnside Ave via Bronx Exp?

Why would that be needed? The already has limited express service to Burnside Av.

[Javier]

Since WHEN!?

[MysteriousBtrain]

Since WHEN!?

Ever since the Burnside Avenue short turn was a thing.

[MysteriousBtrain]

Here's something I have been working on in my wiki. Any thoughts on it?http://mtanyctransitfanon.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Subway_routes_in_New_York_City_(mtamaster_edition)

Note: I am not 100% done with my ideas. For instance, IDK about what to with the 2nd Avenue express and how to do the Queens Blvd bypass on the Y. Also, I made some brief history notes on the IRT routes and plan to add some history on the IND/BMT this evening or so.

Edit: I realized I may have shared some of these ideas with you guys already, so if you see one you saw already, don't announce you saw it already. Just remind me of what I forgot when I did the proposal.

Edited April 9, 2015 by MysteriousBtrain

[RollOver]

For my proposals, they are all about how the subway should have been instead of what is now. Here's the following:

 

-Rogers Junction

-Homeball Alley

-The IND Grand Concourse Line (except Norwood-205 Street) being four tracks instead of three, so that the extends to/from Bedford Park Blvd while the runs express except when the doesn't run

-60 Street Tube

-Car assignment changes to the and

-Almost all future R179s being ten-car sets with a few being eight-car sets to replacing the remaining aging 240 R32s and 48 R42s

-Weekend headways decreasing from 8 minutes to 10 minutes on the and

-Midday and weekend headways decreasing from 8 minutes to 10 minutes on the

-Weekend headways increasing from 12 minutes to 10 minutes on the and

-Midday and Saturday headways decreasing from 5-10 minutes to 10 minutes on the

-Weekend headways increasing from 10-15 minutes to 10 minutes on the .

-The entire route existing

-Flatbush set up as a four-track terminal with three island platforms, plus more tail tracks south of Flatbush to store and trains there instead of Livonia yard

-Also, some more tail tracks east of Utica to store trains there

-Tail tracks south of Bay Ridge-95 Street to store trains there

-A diamond X switch located directly before/after every single terminal in the whole subway system, as in, the ones that end with bumper blocks (including the ones that have tail tracks or yard leads after/before the terminal at the other end of the station).

- trains extended to Flatbush during weekday evening hours

- and trains extended to run an extra hour later, so the can remain express in Manhattan and Brooklyn, as well as the in the Bronx.

-A few other minor changes in a few stations and signals

 

I know I already posted my off-peak headway proposal, as well as my R32 and R46 proposal. The rest will be on the way soon enough, including the track maps. I might also post timetables for each line too, but that's hard work. The rest of the subway system remains relatively the same, however.

Edited April 9, 2015 by RollOver

[S78 via Hylan]

Reduce the weekend headways on the and ? You MUST be joking. Those lines have seen increases in ridership over the years, especially the weekends.

Edited April 9, 2015 by S78 via Hylan

[RollOver]

Seriously and strictly speaking, as I stated time and time again, it doesn't really matter. Flagging with track/signal maintainers and weekend GOs affect virtually every line anyway. Everybody in this forum should all know this already. You can just forget about more service. I don't see how an extra 2 minute wait would hurt. The and 's weekend frequencies are better off being 10 minutes to match those on the , , , and . Both the West Side and East Side corridors would be maintaining 18 trains per hour every weekend, including every other four-track corridors too. I'm treating every non-isolated line equally, all of which have a 10 minute headway throughout the entire off-peak periods. The and can still remain at their 12 trains per hour frequencies during middays and evenings, but for weekends, it's 6 trains per hour on both lines. As for the and , they can still remain at their 9 trains per hour frequencies during middays and evenings for the reasons that I've already mention a couple of pages back in this thread. But for weekends, their headways are lowered to 10 minutes as well.

Edited April 9, 2015 by RollOver

[2 Train Master]

Since WHEN!?

Maybe you should get out more and experience things. The during rush hours and off peak hours sometimes terminates at Burnside or Bedford Park Blvd. It is on the schedule and has been for the past 5-6 years. In the morning between 9 and 11 am, several trains run exp from 167th to Burnside via exp track. They then deadhead uptown. In the evening anywhere between 5 and 8 or 9 pm the samething happens. The other alternative is two or 3 (4)'s that terminate at Bedford Pk Blvd that run via local then go to the yard.