Why New York Subway Lines Are Missing Countdown Clock

[CenSin]

1. This assumes that every train has one person on it with the App installed,

2. and is willing to report the location of their phone constantly, which as you could imagine hogs your battery.

Make that one person the conductor.

[bobtehpanda]

That's nice and all, but the problem is that said for years this couldn't happen until signals were upgraded, then magically someone googled and we have improvement.

 

In all honesty, CBTC should've been combined with the reverse signaling project, but it wasn't (for various reasons that defy all logic). There shouldn't be a train car shortage, but there is because some people at didn't think about surplus, only cuts.

 

Were this Bluetooth tracking likely to be utilized in the most effective way possible, we'd have a CBTC-lite initiative now with more dispatchers guiding trains and handing off like Air Traffic Controllers do planes. But nah.

 

's problem is they need visionaries in key management and staff positions instead of career linear thinkers furthering groupthink culture. Maybe Bluetooth will start the shake up, or maybe status quo continues. But until the former happens, we won't have nice things until we're in our 70s and 80s.

 

CBTC is nowhere near a mature enough technology for us to have been deploying it that early. That's why there aren't any CBTC installations concurrent with Queens Blvd CBTC; Queens Blvd CBTC will essentially be the first iteration that is:

 

1. Usable on four track lines with lots of service changes and possible reroutes

2. Allows trains to seamlessly pass between CBTC and non-CBTC track

 

Anyone who says it can be sped up significantly is unaware of the technical challenges that arise with CBTC. Only one other transport organization globally wants to use CBTC the way we use it, and London Underground's project is five years late and forecast for completion in 2023.

 

Make that one person the conductor.

 

Unless the MTA is about to hand out phones to conductors and provide free USB charging inside the trains, it's not going to be particularly great.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

CBTC is nowhere near a mature enough technology for us to have been deploying it that early. That's why there aren't any CBTC installations concurrent with Queens Blvd CBTC; Queens Blvd CBTC will essentially be the first iteration that is:

 

1. Usable on four track lines with lots of service changes and possible reroutes

2. Allows trains to seamlessly pass between CBTC and non-CBTC track

 

Anyone who says it can be sped up significantly is unaware of the technical challenges that arise with CBTC. Only one other transport organization globally wants to use CBTC the way we use it, and London Underground's project is five years late and forecast for completion in 2023.

 

 

If the subway system wasn't such a rat maze, CBTC would be easier to install, but this subway system we have is a mess. Just look at how the connections are configured. Want to transfer to the to the shuttle at Times Square? Be prepared to walk upstairs, then walk, go up some more stairs, walk some more. Ridiculous.

[Caelestor]

CBTC is most effective on a fixed service line. The and the are the best candidates since they don't merge with other routes at all. The next best candidate is the rest of the IRT system, especially since the local tracks of both trunk lines carry only one service each. 

 

Despite that, the QBL has been prioritized because the entire line desperately needs the capacity. I have my concerns on whether or not it'll lead to any significant improvements, since the QB trains are just going to get delayed on the Manhattan B Division trunk lines. That said, implementing CBTC is an order of magnitude cheaper than building the Bypass, and given the outdated signaling, prioritizing the upgrade first is the most prudent idea.

[Lawrence St]

CBTC will not do anything on QBL except get more people trapped between stations when a delay happens. What QBL needs is a bypass line, I mean the bellmouths are RIGHT THERE! It would greatly fix the current issues of QBL, and they should also rebuild the RBB and connect it to QBL as well, like they intended to.

[bobtehpanda]

If the subway system wasn't such a rat maze, CBTC would be easier to install, but this subway system we have is a mess. Just look at how the connections are configured. Want to transfer to the to the shuttle at Times Square? Be prepared to walk upstairs, then walk, go up some more stairs, walk some more. Ridiculous.

 

This is kind of what happens when you merge three operators into one. If the subway that had become the MTA had always been operated by one entity, this would be way easier; the IRT is much easier to upgrade and plan service changes around than the lettered lines.

[N6 Limited]

Well let's get 'em on then... When are they supposed to be online??

 

 

I haven't heard an estimate for just the and clocks, which go online first, but the entire system should have them all working by the end of the year.

 

Is the close behind the and ?

CBTC will not do anything on QBL except get more people trapped between stations when a delay happens. What QBL needs is a bypass line, I mean the bellmouths are RIGHT THERE! It would greatly fix the current issues of QBL, and they should also rebuild the RBB and connect it to QBL as well, like they intended to.

LOL. The bypass would help with QBL maintenance as the line could be shut down and the bypass used.

[Italianstallion]

I haven't heard an estimate for just the and clocks, which go online first, but the entire system should have them all working by the end of the year.

 

That's great news, thanks.  Regarding other people's posts in this thread, maybe people ought to do some basic research before going off half-cocked that the MTA isn't doing stuff they want, when it is in fact doing it. People on this site are supposed to be transit-savvy, but I wonder.

If the subway system wasn't such a rat maze, CBTC would be easier to install, but this subway system we have is a mess. Just look at how the connections are configured. Want to transfer to the to the shuttle at Times Square? Be prepared to walk upstairs, then walk, go up some more stairs, walk some more. Ridiculous.

 

Why would anyone want to transfer between the 7 and the shuttle at Times Square?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Why would anyone want to transfer between the 7 and the shuttle at Times Square?

You're missing the bigger point, which was that transfers are complicated.  If for some reason the is a mess (which happens more often than not) then yes a person may transfer to the as an alternative. In fact at times it is recommended that passengers use one or the other.  A few weeks ago I got off of the at Times Square and went to transfer to the .  Apparently they're doing work on one of the terminals of the at Times Square, and they recommend that passengers transfer to the instead to alleviate congestion/overcrowding. I considered doing just that, but then thought what a PITA it would be to then walk over to the from the . For someone who claims to use the subway so much, you clearly don't use it as much as you say you do, and then you try to come at me as if I'm an idiot. I've been using the subway for quite a while, and I'm willing to bet that I know the system much better than you do.

 

 

That's great news, thanks.  Regarding other people's posts in this thread, maybe people ought to do some basic research before going off half-cocked that the MTA isn't doing stuff they want, when it is in fact doing it. People on this site are supposed to be transit-savvy, but I wonder.

 

Why would anyone want to transfer between the 7 and the shuttle at Times Square?

No, it's not up to us to do "basic research".  How about the let passengers know about these things? It is no secret that commuters have been clamoring for countdown clocks on the other lines, so this is something they could simply post at subway stations. Just another example of how they fail to communicate.

[Italianstallion]

You're missing the bigger point, which was that transfers are complicated.  If for some reason the is a mess (which happens more often than not) then yes a person may transfer to the as an alternative. In fact at times it is recommended that passengers use one or the other.  A few weeks ago I got off of the at Times Square and went to transfer to the .  Apparently they're doing work on one of the terminals of the at Times Square, and they recommend that passengers transfer to the instead to alleviate congestion/overcrowding. I considered doing just that, but then thought what a PITA it would be to then walk over to the from the . For someone who claims to use the subway so much, you clearly don't use it as much as you say you do, and then you try to come at me as if I'm an idiot. I've been using the subway for quite a while, and I'm willing to bet that I know the system much better than you do.

 

 

No, it's not up to us to do "basic research".  How about the let passengers know about these things? It is no secret that commuters have been clamoring for countdown clocks on the other lines, so this is something they could simply post at subway stations. Just another example of how they fail to communicate.

 

I've been around longer than you. I've been using the subways since the 1950s. I do not use the subway every day now, but often enough. And I'm a participant in several subway websites. If you used the subway as often as you claim, you would have noticed the new countdown clocks going up in the B division. If you followed subway news, you would have seen the pictures someone else posted here in this thread.

 

As for transfers, yes some are complicated. But the example you used was piss-poor. The 7 and the S were not designed to be transferred between. They are parallel east-west lines. The each have transfers to north-south lines. The transfer is needed only when, as you say, service is jacked up. It is not intended as a commonly-used transfer.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I've been around longer than you. I've been using the subways since the 1950s. I do not use the subway every day now, but often enough. And I'm a participant in several subway websites. If you used the subway as often as you claim, you would have noticed the new countdown clocks going up in the B division. If you followed subway news, you would have seen the pictures someone else posted here in this thread.

 

As for transfers, yes some are complicated. But the example you used was piss-poor. The 7 and the S were not designed to be transferred between. They are parallel east-west lines. The each have transfers to north-south lines. The transfer is needed only when, as you say, service is jacked up. It is not intended as a commonly-used transfer.

We both live in Riverdale, so let's not act like getting to the train is such a joy since it involves either a long walk or a bus to get to the subway.  I much prefer using the express buses and Metro-North, as they are much more convenient for me, given my location in Central Riverdale (I can walk to either Metro-North station, as I live in between both of them), not to mention faster, as they often times put me closer to my final destination.  

 

As for the transfer that's irrelevant.  We have a system that needs to evolve with the times and peoples' travel patterns and not be stuck in a time warp.  Given the mess that is the , and the work that is needed for the , along with the other subway lines that run into that station, the amount of meandering needed to transfer is just ridiculous.  You would be better off just getting out of the station and walking outside to make such connections.  Another station that drives me nuts is 14th street with the and trains. Another rat maze.

[QM1to6Ave]

Oh please, the new B division countdown clocks have been very poorly advertised by the . The beats to death the new USB and WiFi on buses, but there is mostly radio silence on when the new Bluetooth system or CBTC will be installed and activated. Just because they install new screens that have yet to be turned on is meaningless when it comes to having an exact schedule of when the system will go live.  I keep a close eye on these things and I haven't heard much of anything about them since the pilot started a while ago. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Oh please, the new B division countdown clocks have been very poorly advertised by the . The beats to death the new USB and WiFi on buses, but there is mostly radio silence on when the new Bluetooth system or CBTC will be installed and activated. Just because they install new screens that have yet to be turned on is meaningless when it comes to having an exact schedule of when the system will go live.  I keep a close eye on these things and I haven't heard much of anything about them since the pilot started a while ago. 

Exactly! Even if you don't ride every day, people do look around.  If they were really interested in informing the public, they would have ads out letting us know. My take is they're afraid that they're going to finish the project late as usual.

[Italianstallion]

We both live in Riverdale, so let's not act like getting to the train is such a joy since it involves either a long walk or a bus to get to the subway.  I much prefer using the express buses and Metro-North, as they are much more convenient for me, given my location in Central Riverdale (I can walk to either Metro-North station, as I live in between both of them), not to mention faster, as they often times put me closer to my final destination.  

 

As for the transfer that's irrelevant.  We have a system that needs to evolve with the times and peoples' travel patterns and not be stuck in a time warp.  Given the mess that is the and the work that is needed for the along with the other subway lines that run into that station, the amount of meandering needed to transfer is just ridiculous.  You would be better off just getting out of the station and walking outside to make such connections.  Another station that drives me nuts is 14th street with the and trains. Another rat maze.

 

Not sure what the reliance of the 1 train is to the discussion.  But I tend to use MNRR when i need to get to any location south of, say, 59th St. on the east side -- though I can get to the 1 more easily than some as my home location is such that I can drive and park near the 242 St. station at various times. So I have been using the 1 more lately, especially for the UWS. I avoid the express buses because of the inevitable backups on the Deegan or the HRD.

 

As someone else pointed out, the transfers can be a mess because the 3 divisions  were built independently and the older station transfers had to be jerry-rigged after the stations were built. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Not sure what the reliance of the 1 train is to the discussion.  But I tend to use MNRR when i need to get to any location south of, say, 59th St. on the east side -- though I can get to the 1 more easily than some as my home location is such that I can drive and park near the 242 St. station at various times. So I have been using the 1 more lately, especially for the UWS. I avoid the express buses because of the inevitable backups on the Deegan or the HRD.

 

As someone else pointed out, the transfers can be a mess because the 3 divisions  were built independently and the older station transfers had to be jerry-rigged after the stations were built. 

The point is I'm not an every day subway rider, and I don't care to be quite frankly.  Even with my casual trips, I'm usually able to be kept abreast of the new things coming out.  If this was advertised properly, the public would've known about it.  

[Italianstallion]

The point is I'm not an every day subway rider, and I don't care to be quite frankly.  Even with my casual trips, I'm usually able to be kept abreast of the new things coming out.  If this was advertised properly, the public would've known about it.  

 

So neither one of us is an everyday subway user. So don't hold yourself up to me as the world's expert on the system.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

So neither one of us is an everyday subway user. So don't hold yourself up to me as the world's expert on the system.

There's a difference.  I can ride the subway every day if I wanted to, but I find it too unreliable and dirty to do so, so I avoid the subway as much as possible since I know what I'm store for having used it for so many years when I had to. Given the above, I'm fairly confident that I've rode it more extensively than you have. Riding the train to the Upper West Side... If I had such a short commute with just one line, I wouldn't complain either.  To take the subway, I would have to make a gazillion transfers, and I'm not up for that.

[Around the Horn]

You're missing the bigger point, which was that transfers are complicated.  If for some reason the is a mess (which happens more often than not) then yes a person may transfer to the as an alternative. In fact at times it is recommended that passengers use one or the other.  A few weeks ago I got off of the at Times Square and went to transfer to the .  Apparently they're doing work on one of the terminals of the at Times Square, and they recommend that passengers transfer to the instead to alleviate congestion/overcrowding. I considered doing just that, but then thought what a PITA it would be to then walk over to the from the . For someone who claims to use the subway so much, you clearly don't use it as much as you say you do, and then you try to come at me as if I'm an idiot. I've been using the subway for quite a while, and I'm willing to bet that I know the system much better than you do.

 

 

No, it's not up to us to do "basic research".  How about the let passengers know about these things? It is no secret that commuters have been clamoring for countdown clocks on the other lines, so this is something they could simply post at subway stations. Just another example of how they fail to communicate.

The clocks themselves have big posters over the LCD screen to the effect of "Real time subway countdowns coming soon".

 

I'd imagine the MTA will really push it when the majority of them are fully up and running.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The clocks themselves have big posters over the LCD screen to the effect of "Real time subway countdowns coming soon".

 

I'd imagine the MTA will really push it when the majority of them are fully up and running.

They must be at limited stations then. I have yet to see them at any of the stations I frequent without them.

[Around the Horn]

They must be at limited stations then. I have yet to see them at any of the stations I frequent without them.

Hmmm, in that case you may have seen one that's screen has been turned on and showing PSAs in addition to a digital version of that sign.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Hmmm, in that case you may have seen one that's screen has been turned on and showing PSAs in addition to a digital version of that sign.

Do they just look like the other screens with the time showing and date?

[Around the Horn]

Do they just look like the other screens with the time showing and date?

It's the same housing as the other ones showing the time and date, but the screens themselves are LCD like a TV.

 

When they show times, they look like this:

[Via Garibaldi 8]

It's the same housing as the other ones showing the time and date, but the screens themselves are LCD like a TV.

 

When they show times, they look like this:

Ahh... Haven't seen those yet...

[Eric B]

I was hoping they would go with RGB LED, but it seems these are some new LCD panels that break out of the old TV-based dimensions. (previously, they would use several panels side by side, but these don;t look like multiple panels; you would see the lines between panels).