Express Bus Advocacy Group

[Via Garibaldi 8]

9 minutes ago, 7-express said:

My friend is usually on the 530 or 545 bus since we're both early starters.  SRO going into the city for at least a few days in April.

Pretty sure subway safety and early starts are driving most of the growth.  It's definitely my motivator instead of saving money on the subway.  The MTA has a prime opportunity to attract and retain express bus riders after seeing a somewhat steady decline over the last decade.  But all I see is them shooting themselves in the foot time and time again with reliability and crowding issues...nevermind them trying to slash service frequency with the redesign plans.

If it's the 5:30am bus, that's the first bus of the morning. There is no bus before that so the only thing that could be done is to see if another bus could be started earlier or right after that one. The 5:45am bus is the next bus after the 5:30am, so as I said, it's not due to missing trips, as those trips are rarely canceled. I can reach out to my contacts to see what can be done (assuming that the SRO is an ongoing thing), but it is not normal to have a bus put in without a new pick, so first a driver would have to be located that would be willing to do an earlier trip (if anyone) or a new trip could be looked at for the next pick, again assuming that the SRO is an ongoing thing. Having an SRO bus on occasion is not enough to get another trip put in, so it needs to be something that has continued in order for me to make the case for an earlier bus.

I was able to do that for the BM2 to get earlier service in the middle of this pick because that first bus was regularly seeing 50-60+ people for a while and I had asked for an earlier bus some months ago for that reason.

Edited May 5, 2022 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Via Garibaldi 8]

BxM10 situation is not a regular thing. First bus had 24. The bus after has 22.

[7-express]

Folks on the NE Queens Queens Redesign town hall didn't have a ton of time to ask questions last night but they did make their displeasure of the midday cuts of the QM2/20 known.  Mainly due to the unpredictable and early schedules people have adjusted to post-pandemic and how the cuts would make the lines no longer appealing.  Specifically pointed out was how stupid it was to have the EB QM20 trips start at 4 PM only.  Also pointed out was how the EB trip alignment on the LIE would just add a ton of run time due to how congested that stretch is.

Someone did mention how the peak hour riders that the express buses get should be sufficient to cover off-peak/midday runs so it doesn't make sense to cut them despite lower ridership.  I'm not sure how much truth there is to that statement but it seems plausible.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

3 hours ago, 7-express said:

Folks on the NE Queens Queens Redesign town hall didn't have a ton of time to ask questions last night but they did make their displeasure of the midday cuts of the QM2/20 known.  Mainly due to the unpredictable and early schedules people have adjusted to post-pandemic and how the cuts would make the lines no longer appealing.  Specifically pointed out was how stupid it was to have the EB QM20 trips start at 4 PM only.  Also pointed out was how the EB trip alignment on the LIE would just add a ton of run time due to how congested that stretch is.

Someone did mention how the peak hour riders that the express buses get should be sufficient to cover off-peak/midday runs so it doesn't make sense to cut them despite lower ridership.  I'm not sure how much truth there is to that statement but it seems plausible.

That's good because we're getting more and more Queens express bus riders joining that are pissed about that draft they came up with. It's a joke and I've continued to spread the word for people to call their elected officials.

[checkmatechamp13]

8 hours ago, 7-express said:

Folks on the NE Queens Queens Redesign town hall didn't have a ton of time to ask questions last night but they did make their displeasure of the midday cuts of the QM2/20 known.  Mainly due to the unpredictable and early schedules people have adjusted to post-pandemic and how the cuts would make the lines no longer appealing.  Specifically pointed out was how stupid it was to have the EB QM20 trips start at 4 PM only.  Also pointed out was how the EB trip alignment on the LIE would just add a ton of run time due to how congested that stretch is.

Someone did mention how the peak hour riders that the express buses get should be sufficient to cover off-peak/midday runs so it doesn't make sense to cut them despite lower ridership.  I'm not sure how much truth there is to that statement but it seems plausible.

They're still losing money on those rush hour trips due to how much deadheading there is. When you refer to the LIE, are you talking about the QM2/20/32 or the Union Turnpike routes going out as far 188th Street (technically Utopia Parkway exit)?

[7-express]

48 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

They're still losing money on those rush hour trips due to how much deadheading there is. When you refer to the LIE, are you talking about the QM2/20/32 or the Union Turnpike routes going out as far 188th Street (technically Utopia Parkway exit)?

I was referring to the plan moving the EB routing of the QM2/20/32 from Northern Blvd to the Queensboro Bridge upper level/LIE.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

22 hours ago, 7-express said:

Folks on the NE Queens Queens Redesign town hall didn't have a ton of time to ask questions last night but they did make their displeasure of the midday cuts of the QM2/20 known.  Mainly due to the unpredictable and early schedules people have adjusted to post-pandemic and how the cuts would make the lines no longer appealing.  Specifically pointed out was how stupid it was to have the EB QM20 trips start at 4 PM only.  Also pointed out was how the EB trip alignment on the LIE would just add a ton of run time due to how congested that stretch is.

Someone did mention how the peak hour riders that the express buses get should be sufficient to cover off-peak/midday runs so it doesn't make sense to cut them despite lower ridership.  I'm not sure how much truth there is to that statement but it seems plausible.

Something I forgot to mention earlier... Peak, off-peak... Doesn't matter.  Bus is reimbursed for any loses they incur by the City, so this BS about them losing money. That was part of the agreement when the City consolidated the private lines into  Bus. People still need to use public transportation in areas that don't have subways and need bus service, be it local or express. I encourage people in the community to keep speaking up about the need to keep their service because they are the ones that will be negatively impacted and depend on it.

[7-express]

39 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Something I forgot to mention earlier... Peak, off-peak... Doesn't matter.  Bus is reimbursed for any loses they incur by the City, so this BS about them losing money. That was part of the agreement when the City consolidated the private lines into  Bus. People still need to use public transportation in areas that don't have subways and need bus service, be it local or express. I encourage people in the community to keep speaking up about the need to keep their service because they are the ones that will be negatively impacted and depend on it.

I'm wondering how much of that agreement will remain intact with the new bus redesign plan.  I'm not sure how they're going to manage which lines MTA Bus and NYCT bus has among the local routes at least.  An example is how the Q34 has strong peak frequency at 10 mins and a long service span from 5 AM to 12 AM under MTA Bus, likely due to the agreement you described to continue providing strong service.  However, the redesign changing this corridor into the Q61 guts it to a peak hour bus running every 20 mins and no off-hours service.  Makes me wonder if the old arrangement with the former private line routes under the MTA Bus umbrella is going out the window in favor of the stricter NYCT Bus guidelines for all of Queens.  Which also influences how the MTA bus express routes will survive this possible transition in thinking.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

20 minutes ago, 7-express said:

I'm wondering how much of that agreement will remain intact with the new bus redesign plan.  I'm not sure how they're going to manage which lines MTA Bus and NYCT bus has among the local routes at least.  An example is how the Q34 has strong peak frequency at 10 mins and a long service span from 5 AM to 12 AM under MTA Bus, likely due to the agreement you described to continue providing strong service.  However, the redesign changing this corridor into the Q61 guts it to a peak hour bus running every 20 mins and no off-hours service.  Makes me wonder if the old arrangement with the former private line routes under the MTA Bus umbrella is going out the window in favor of the stricter NYCT Bus guidelines for all of Queens.  Which also influences how the MTA bus express routes will survive this possible transition in thinking.

That is something that we've been speaking to the City Comptroller's Office about, because there are contractual agreements that may be breached by this Queens Redesign, particularly in terms of how the  is reimbursed. NYCT lines have different loading guidelines and are not reimbursed by the City.  Bus lines are, and so the question is what happens if the  tries to have this merger with NYCT and  Bus? The information is public information and an attorney we spoke with recently that is well versed in the transportation field has questions about whether there would indeed be a breach of contract. The agreement is publicly available, but you have to do some digging to find it. I am going to see if I can contact him again soon to get it and read it, as I deal with legalese often and have no problem understanding the jargon.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Something I forgot to mention earlier... Peak, off-peak... Doesn't matter.  Bus is reimbursed for any loses they incur by the City, so this BS about them losing money. That was part of the agreement when the City consolidated the private lines into  Bus. People still need to use public transportation in areas that don't have subways and need bus service, be it local or express. I encourage people in the community to keep speaking up about the need to keep their service because they are the ones that will be negatively impacted and depend on it.

 

That "blank check" won't last forever.

 

 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

40 minutes ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

That "blank check" won't last forever.

 

 

Completely irrelevant to the discussion in the here and now.  All public transportation operates at a loss, so I'm sure what your point is, other than to spew the same nonsense over and over. 

Edited May 12, 2022 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Gotham Bus Co.]

1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Completely irrelevant to the discussion in the here and now.  All public transportation operates at a loss, so I'm sure what your point is, other than to spew the same nonsense over and over. 

My (rather obvious) point is that...

 

The City reimbursements will not continue indefinitely, and assuming otherwise is foolish at best.

 

 The City reimbursements are still taxpayer dollars, so the taxpaying public should still be concerned about how they're spent.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

28 minutes ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

My (rather obvious) point is that...

 

The City reimbursements will not continue indefinitely, and assuming otherwise is foolish at best.

 

 The City reimbursements are still taxpayer dollars, so the taxpaying public should still be concerned about how they're spent.

And my (rather obvious) points are that....

 The City's economy cannot recover without a viable transportation system.  If the  has to enact service cuts across the bus system (that includes the local buses), it could mean economic losses in many other jobs that the  feeds. It would be foolish for the City to consider cuts to that subsidy, as they may save money in that area, but lose much more in other areas, tax dollars that it can ill afford to lose at this time.  

 Public transportation operates at a loss, that includes the subways, local buses, railroads & the ferries.  There is no such things as a profitable public transportation system & I'm sure you're competent enough to realize that, despite you insisting on regurgitating the same rhetoric over and over, hence why it is called "public transportation".

While we're on the topic of public transportation, it's funny how the is stupid when you want more service in your neighborhood on the LIRR, which is quite expensive to run and no one should challenge you on that extra service that surely would be running at a loss, as it is a fact that the stations you mentioned don't see enough ridership to justify more service, but you complain endlessly about other subsidized public transit operations.  

 

Edited May 12, 2022 by Via Garibaldi 8

[paulrivera]

2 hours ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

That "blank check" won't last forever.

 

 

I've heard that line every time a new administration comes in and every time they keep more or less the status quo...

[Via Garibaldi 8]

13 minutes ago, paulrivera said:

I've heard that line every time a new administration comes in and every time they keep more or less the status quo...

Yeah and the reason is because the City knows the deal.  A lot of people complain about how much money the City spends on the new ferry service too, but the fact of the matter is these ferries have generated lots of economic activity that wouldn't exist that benefits the City with more tax revenues in its coffers , so for what they spend, they get much much more in return.  Some people like @Gotham Bus Co. have a myopic viewpoint of things, except for when it comes to him and what he needs, then it's another story.

It was the Bloomberg administration that decided to consolidate the private lines into  Bus with the thought being that neighborhoods that have historically been at a disadvantage with no subway service would see better bus service (local and express) and the City would save money, as it could reduce the subsidy that it gave to the private lines.  What has also been left out of this discussion is the sweetheart deals with certain housing developments that have resulted around the City, with the agreement that said neighborhoods would have adequate public transportation. The Parkchester and Co-Op City neighborhoods for example would not exist without having adequate bus service, and that is why Co-Op City today has remained adamant about demanding that they have the service that they have, knowing that their neighborhood would A. be far less attractive and isolated as a result & B. remembering the sort of the agreements that came about with the creation of such neighborhoods.  

Imagine Co-Op City with limited bus service... A community with a high senior population, with no subway access. 

There are many such neighborhoods like this too in Queens and elsewhere.  

Edited May 12, 2022 by Via Garibaldi 8

[checkmatechamp13]

18 hours ago, 7-express said:

I was referring to the plan moving the EB routing of the QM2/20/32 from Northern Blvd to the Queensboro Bridge upper level/LIE.

I personally think all of the outbound express routes should take the Queens-Midtown Tunnel to I-495. You might hit some traffic once you get past the I-278 interchange, but the part of I-495 through LIC is usually smooth sailing heading eastbound (the approach to the tunnel on the Manhattan end is a different story of course, but the same could be said for the Queensboro Bridge). But yes, I agree going up Van Dam Street to the LIE is the worst of both worlds.

25 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

It was the Bloomberg administration that decided to consolidate the private lines into  Bus with the thought being that neighborhoods that have historically been at a disadvantage with no subway service would see better bus service (local and express) and the City would save money, as it could reduce the subsidy that it gave to the private lines.  What has also been left out of this discussion is the sweetheart deals with certain housing developments that have resulted around the City, with the agreement that said neighborhoods would have adequate public transportation. The Parkchester and Co-Op City neighborhoods for example would not exist without having adequate bus service, and that is why Co-Op City today has remained adamant about demanding that they have the service that they have, knowing that their neighborhood would A. be far less attractive and isolated as a result & B. remembering the sort of the agreements that came about with the creation of such neighborhoods.  

This is completely inaccurate. Parkchester was built in 1942. The BxM6 wasn't created until 1970. The BxM7 was created a few years after Co-Op City was built, and in both cases, the routes were operated by a private company, not by the City.

Edited May 12, 2022 by checkmatechamp13

[checkmatechamp13]

Delete

Edited May 12, 2022 by checkmatechamp13

[Gotham Bus Co.]

1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

While we're on the topic of public transportation, it's funny how the is stupid when you want more service in your neighborhood on the LIRR, which is quite expensive to run and no one should challenge you on that extra service that surely would be running at a loss, as it is a fact that the stations you mentioned don't see enough ridership to justify more service, but you complain endlessly about other subsidized public transit operations.  

 

 

I wasn't asking for additional trains (hugely expensive); I asked only for a handful of existing trains to make two additional stops. That would have added 2-3 minutes to a schedule that can easily absorb 2-3 minutes (and probably will anyway after ESA opens).

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 minute ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

I wasn't asking for additional trains (hugely expensive); I asked only for a handful of existing trains to make two additional stops. That would have added 2-3 minutes to a schedule that can easily absorb 2-3 minutes (and probably will anyway after ESA opens).

Interesting.  If we were going off of ridership numbers for those stations, the argument still could be made that the extra service may not be worth it.

---

On a side note, someone brought up express bus service to Co-op City & Parkchester and I clearly did not say anything about express bus service with the creation of those neighborhoods. I said adequate bus service, so there is nothing inaccurate about what I said. What's inaccurate is inserting information that wasn't stated.  Reading is fundamental...

[7-express]

34 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

I personally think all of the outbound express routes should take the Queens-Midtown Tunnel to I-495. You might hit some traffic once you get past the I-278 interchange, but the part of I-495 through LIC is usually smooth sailing heading eastbound (the approach to the tunnel on the Manhattan end is a different story of course, but the same could be said for the Queensboro Bridge). But yes, I agree going up Van Dam Street to the LIE is the worst of both worlds.

More SX trips would be nice but that'd likely come at the expense of service frequency along the Midtown section.  So I'm not sure what the best way would be have more SX trips without tanking frequency along the rest of the pickup route.

I have noticed some drivers going on a psuedo SX route where they go on Northern to Woodside and then flip onto the BQE/GCP or head up to travel via Astoria.  So that may be the future if the DOT fully redesigns Northern between Woodside and Corona to limit lane capacity.

[checkmatechamp13]

2 minutes ago, 7-express said:

More SX trips would be nice but that'd likely come at the expense of service frequency along the Midtown section.  So I'm not sure what the best way would be have more SX trips without tanking frequency along the rest of the pickup route.

I have noticed some drivers going on a psuedo SX route where they go on Northern to Woodside and then flip onto the BQE/GCP or head up to travel via Astoria.  So that may be the future if the DOT fully redesigns Northern between Woodside and Corona to limit lane capacity.

I was thinking to just reverse the route for outbound buses. Do something like what the BM5 does (start at 57th & 1st, run across 57th, down 5th, across 34th, and up to the tunnel). 3rd Avenue routes would run via Lexington in the PM.

For the routes that have a 3rd/Lexington variant, the rush hour buses could start further west (somewhere around 57th & 5th). That way, you don't have tons of buses all starting at the same spot.

[7-express]

38 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

I was thinking to just reverse the route for outbound buses. Do something like what the BM5 does (start at 57th & 1st, run across 57th, down 5th, across 34th, and up to the tunnel). 3rd Avenue routes would run via Lexington in the PM.

For the routes that have a 3rd/Lexington variant, the rush hour buses could start further west (somewhere around 57th & 5th). That way, you don't have tons of buses all starting at the same spot.

That can certainly work too since the QM2/20/32 all terminate at 57th Street anyways and have to run back to 34th to restart the run.  Unless there's an issue with bus layovers around 57th or the DOT has a limit on amount of buses using the QMT.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I have agreed to partake in at least one in-person meeting in Queens for the Queens Redesign. This will not be structured like the other meetings thus far, as this will not be run by the . Advocates will structure this one, which will mean more opportunities to discuss your bus routes (express and local). So far we have plans for one meeting in Northeast Queens on June 6th. There should be officials, elected officials, etc. More details to come... 

[QM1to6Ave]

I had the idea today that the downtown express buses could do with a new stop on 34th and 1st (or 2nd), before they head onto/get off of the FDR, to serve all of the hospitals in that area. It would by far be the most direct stop and attract hospital employees, without taking the bus anywhere out of it's current route. The buses usually get stuck at the light on first ave anyway, so it would have a minimal impact on running time

[Via Garibaldi 8]

4 minutes ago, QM1to6Ave said:

I had the idea today that the downtown express buses could do with a new stop on 34th and 1st (or 2nd), before they head onto/get off of the FDR, to serve all of the hospitals in that area. It would by far be the most direct stop and attract hospital employees, without taking the bus anywhere out of it's current route. The buses usually get stuck at the light on first ave anyway, so it would have a minimal impact on running time

That is pretty much the plan for the Downtown express buses in the latest draft.