Express Bus Advocacy Group

[IAlam]

7 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Just saw this ad on the BM3 bus I was waiting for. Obviously this makes things confusing, given what we've been hearing and I will try to get clarification ASAP. 12 rides adds up to $33, but this ad is clearly fitted for the express bus...

I already asked about express ride and was told it's completely excluded but, there still isn't any information about transferring between express buses and local buses/subways. It'd be much nicer if there was more information on the edge cases so people understand how it works.  

[QM1to6Ave]

56 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Yes, I discussed this whole OMNY fare capping fiasco with the other express bus advocate I work with and will have a conference call about this next week. Someone clearly dropped the ball. They try to have a one size fits all approach that just doesn't work.

As for the runtimes, when I discussed some of the differences in the QM runtimes with one of the Senior Planners at a meeting, it seemed that there were other reasons why they couldn't change the schedules. In fact they made the routing change I asked for with the QM2, QM3 and QM20 (partially anyway), but the runtimes, he never committed to being able to do anything about. He didn't say exactly why, but his answer led me to believe that there was some contractual agreement with the former private lines carried over to Bus or it's a union issue. When I asked the  to change some runtimes for a few of the SIM lines, the  had to sit down with the union and they had to agree to the reduced runtimes, so the same thing would apply here. Now, I will definitely ask and see what they say, but even for the smallest of changes, it can be a process. 

Sometimes the drivers will start to complain if they are finishing trips late and can't make their next trip. When that happens, the union may ask for more runtime. This is something they negotiate and sometimes the  pushes back, which happened recently with some other express bus lines where runtimes were an issue.

But yeah, thinking about it further, it is likely the union issue. Different QM lines out of different depots and different unions. If they don't do anything soon, then I would imagine they'll try to fix it with the union if and when they implement the Queens Redesign for sure. This was definitely an issue out on Staten Island. 

Thank you as usual for the behind the scenes explanation and the advocacy work!!

[QM1to6Ave]

22 minutes ago, IAlam said:

I already asked about express ride and was told it's completely excluded but, there still isn't any information about transferring between express buses and local buses/subways. It'd be much nicer if there was more information on the edge cases so people understand how it works.  

Dealing with those "edge cases" has never been the MTAs strength lol. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 hour ago, IAlam said:

I already asked about express ride and was told it's completely excluded but, there still isn't any information about transferring between express buses and local buses/subways. It'd be much nicer if there was more information on the edge cases so people understand how it works.  

What do you mean about information about transferring between express buses and local buses/subways? It works the same way with OMNY that it works with the Metrocard. Today I used OMNY and transferred between express buses going and coming. First tap is $6.75. Next tap is the free transfer (you have to use the same payment form you originally tapped with to get it (OMNY card, debit or credit card or cell phone) otherwise you'll be charged again). 

When I take the express bus and tap with OMNY and transfer to the local bus or subway, it's a free transfer from the express bus, just like with the Metrocard. The duration of the transfer appears to be the same as the Metrocard as well at a minimum. If you tap using the local bus or subway, you pay $2.75 and then you pay $4.00 for the express bus (the step up fare, just like with the Metrocard).

38 minutes ago, QM1to6Ave said:

Thank you as usual for the behind the scenes explanation and the advocacy work!!

Not a problem. Hopefully I get some info soon.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

It appears that the fare capping ads on the express buses were put up in error by a contractor. They are supposedly in the process of removing them. The automated announcements... If those are still going, I will ask them to remove those as well.

Edited February 27, 2022 by Via Garibaldi 8

[QM1to6Ave]

4 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

It appears that the fare capping ads on the express buses were put up in error by a contractor. They are supposedly in the process of removing them. The automated announcements... If those are still going, I will ask them to remove those as well.

Thanks! The ads were playing as of last night, I'll see if I get a Prevost tomorrow to see if it is playing

[Via Garibaldi 8]

19 minutes ago, QM1to6Ave said:

Thanks! The ads were playing as of last night, I'll see if I get a Prevost tomorrow to see if it is playing

Right. They're aware now. How long it will take for them to address the issue is anyone's guess, but the ads are supposed to be removed by the contractor ASAP. What a mess. lol

[IAlam]

21 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

What do you mean about information about transferring between express buses and local buses/subways? It works the same way with OMNY that it works with the Metrocard. Today I used OMNY and transferred between express buses going and coming. First tap is $6.75. Next tap is the free transfer (you have to use the same payment form you originally tapped with to get it (OMNY card, debit or credit card or cell phone) otherwise you'll be charged again). 

When I take the express bus and tap with OMNY and transfer to the local bus or subway, it's a free transfer from the express bus, just like with the Metrocard. The duration of the transfer appears to be the same as the Metrocard as well at a minimum. If you tap using the local bus or subway, you pay $2.75 and then you pay $4.00 for the express bus (the step up fare, just like with the Metrocard).

To clarify I'm speaking about how the combined trip with a local bus/subway and express bus works with fare capping. Your express fare doesn't count but you local fare does. So what happens if you transfer and ride both on the same trip what portion of the paid fare if any counts towards your cap? 

Edited February 28, 2022 by IAlam

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 hour ago, IAlam said:

To clarify I'm speaking about how the combined trip with a local bus/subway and express bus works with fare capping. Your express fare doesn't count but you local fare does. So what happens if you transfer and ride both on the same trip what portion of the paid fare if any counts towards your cap? 

Since fare capping doesn't include the express bus, any trips towards the $33 would be either via the local bus or subway. 

[checkmatechamp13]

3 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Since fare capping doesn't include the express bus, any trips towards the $33 would be either via the local bus or subway. 

Is that confirmed by the MTA or is that an assumption? The way the current unlimited local passes work, you need to take the subway or local bus first to get the deduction on the express bus.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

10 hours ago, IAlam said:

To clarify I'm speaking about how the combined trip with a local bus/subway and express bus works with fare capping. Your express fare doesn't count but you local fare does. So what happens if you transfer and ride both on the same trip what portion of the paid fare if any counts towards your cap? 

Let me clarify just in case it isn't clear. I believe I explained earlier that if you take the local bus or subway first with OMNY, you obviously pay $2.75, THEN if you transfer to the express bus, you pay only $4.00 because you already paid $2.75 on the local bus or subway. Here is an example from a trip I took recently.

Got the  train at 242nd, took that to the City. Next trip was with the BxM2. As you can see, I transferred within the allotted timeframe, and paid only $4.00. It actually was a round trip, so I came from Riverdale to Manhattan by subway, took the express bus back and paid $6.75 total. I have also noticed round trips by express bus where I took the BxM2 into Manhattan and took the BxM1 back and was only charged $6.75, as I got a free transfer within the allotted timeframe, so as I said it's just like the Metrocard. Now I know that with the Metrocard, you can't make certain round trips on one fare, be it local bus or express bus, and I have not tested some of those trips out yet with OMNY, but everything that I did previously with the Metrocard, I've been able to do with OMNY. I have never done this  train trip into Manhattan and taken the BxM2 back, but since I don't use a pass now, I am testing out OMNY to see just how it coincides with how the Metrocard would work, and so far it's been just fine.

HOWEVER, if we are talking about the fare capping program, as shown on the express bus photo I posted below,

which says you get free rides after taking "12 rides on this bus", they are referring to the local bus and not the express bus (12 local bus or subway rides x $2.75= $33), hence why the ads are being pulled on the express buses, so if you take 12 local bus rides or 12 subway rides, all rides on the local bus or subway after that are free within the period of Monday to Sunday. The ad makes it sound like it applies to the express bus when it says "take this bus".

Any trips you take on the express bus do not count towards fare capping as in free rides, so as I said, the ads you may have seen on the express bus are being removed for that reason, as the  confirmed that they were put up in error by a contractor, and I will confirm again with my contacts this week to be super sure, but they pretty much clarified it already. It was a blunder on their part and they acknowledged it.

Now, with that said, I will put this theory to the test this week. I believe that I need to go to Manhattan enough this week with the express bus starting today to see if that is the case and we'll see. There are definitely express bus trips where I was charged the wrong fare, as in $2.75 instead of $6.75, so maybe there will be another bug...

In the example below, I only took the express bus. BxM1 in. The "Other Route" is actually an express bus (I believe I took the BxM2 back) as well and it wasn't a free transfer or anything, but in some cases, they can't pull up the correct info or perhaps the OMNY reader isn't programmed correctly, so you are charged $2.75, even though you took the express bus. This has happened several times in fact.

Edited February 28, 2022 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Via Garibaldi 8]

So that it is super clear... Someone posted this in my group from elsewhere...

[IAlam]

6 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Let me clarify just in case it isn't clear. I believe I explained earlier that if you take the local bus or subway first with OMNY, you obviously pay $2.75, THEN if you transfer to the express bus, you pay only $4.00 because you already paid $2.75 on the local bus or subway. Here is an example from a trip I took recently.

Any trips you take on the express bus do not count towards fare capping as in free rides, so as I said, the ads you may have seen on the express bus are being removed for that reason, as the  confirmed that they were put up in error by a contractor, and I will confirm again with my contacts this week to be super sure, but they pretty much clarified it already. It was a blunder on their part and they acknowledged it.

Ok so I'm guessing based on that first case from subway/bus to express only 2.75 would count towards the cap but if it's the other way around where I ride the express bus first and then transfer to the subway would the system still apply 2.75 towards the cap or would it be ignored solely for being a transfer?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

17 minutes ago, IAlam said:

Ok so I'm guessing based on that first case from subway/bus to express only 2.75 would count towards the cap but if it's the other way around where I ride the express bus first and then transfer to the subway would the system still apply 2.75 towards the cap or would it be ignored solely for being a transfer?

If you ride the express bus first, you pay the full $6.75, and nothing goes towards the fare capping, since the transfer to the local bus or subway would be free. Now just today, the  claims that you can see which trips actually go towards fare capping.

By Wednesday, I should have paid enough via OMNY to see what happens with my account.  What I will do this week is experiment where I tap at some random subway station and see if there is anything noted in my OMNY account.  I don't plan on using the subway this week, but just for sh*** and giggles I can tap and then check my account.

[IAlam]

12 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

If you ride the express bus first, you pay the full $6.75, and nothing goes towards the fare capping, since the transfer to the local bus or subway would be free. Now just today, the  claims that you can see which trips actually go towards fare capping.

By Wednesday, I should have paid enough via OMNY to see what happens with my account.  What I will do this week is experiment where I tap at some random subway station and see if there is anything noted in my OMNY account.  I don't plan on using the subway this week, but just for sh*** and giggles I can tap and then check my account.

*sigh* That's what I was worried about just like the current unlimited you need to swipe on the subway or bus before hopping on the express. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

11 minutes ago, IAlam said:

*sigh* That's what I was worried about just like the current unlimited you need to swipe on the subway or bus before hopping on the express. 

Yeah, so in this case, if you want some of your fare to count towards the actual fare capping, hop on a local bus or subway first and pay that $2.75 and then you'd pay $4.00 for the express bus. Of course you have to use that transfer for the express bus, so hopefully you don't need to transfer again afterwards, or you'd be paying another $2.75 or whatever.

It's worth noting that they claim that if the program is a success that it may be expanded. They've kept it vague, so it could mean anything.

Edited February 28, 2022 by Via Garibaldi 8

[QM1to6Ave]

@Via Garibaldi 8 the two CP MCIs I took today did indeed have all chains removed, as promised! I didn't get a Prevost so I don't know about the OMNY videos. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

3 hours ago, QM1to6Ave said:

@Via Garibaldi 8 the two CP MCIs I took today did indeed have all chains removed, as promised! I didn't get a Prevost so I don't know about the OMNY videos. 

Yeah they are definitely playing the OMNY fare capping on the express bus. I got a Prevost last night. Weird thing is they had in Spanish only. What a mess.

[Lawrence St]

On 2/28/2022 at 7:01 AM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

So that it is super clear... Someone posted this in my group from elsewhere...

I wouldn't take what the social media agents say seriously. Most of them are just college students who have no idea what they're doing half the time. Can't tell how many times they've given me incorrect info.

[Lawrence St]

20 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Yeah, so in this case, if you want some of your fare to count towards the actual fare capping, hop on a local bus or subway first and pay that $2.75 and then you'd pay $4.00 for the express bus. Of course you have to use that transfer for the express bus, so hopefully you don't need to transfer again afterwards, or you'd be paying another $2.75 or whatever.

It's worth noting that they claim that if the program is a success that it may be expanded. They've kept it vague, so it could mean anything.

You can also use your regular unlimited MetroCard on the express bus and only pay $4, BUT you have to swipe into the subway first. I think that's stupid as it should give you the $4 fare regardless.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

9 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

I wouldn't take what the social media agents say seriously. Most of them are just college students who have no idea what they're doing half the time. Can't tell how many times they've given me incorrect info.

I have met some of them personally, so depending on who responds, I know whether the info is accurate or not. I have a few in my group in fact that assist from time to time. Some are indeed new and some aren't.

5 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

You can also use your regular unlimited MetroCard on the express bus and only pay $4, BUT you have to swipe into the subway first. I think that's stupid as it should give you the $4 fare regardless.

Right...  His question was about OMNY though. There are some limitations with the Metrocard because it is dated technology, and I do wonder about the scenario you mentioned... If for example, it was a programming issue before they allowed you to add money to Metrocard passes. I definitely recall when you could not use any unlimited card on the express bus save the regular Express Bus Plus Metrocard. My guess is somebody complained, or they saw all of the people trying to use their Metrocard in that way, but since you can add money to a Metrocard now, maybe that was the trick or they could reprogram it so that the pass is seen with the money and they just deduct that $4.00. 

They actually fixed another issue a while ago that I brought up to them about not getting a transfer if there is zero balance on your card. For example, if you had the exact amount on your card (say $6.75), dipped and then needed to transfer to the subway, local bus or another express bus, the transfer previously would not be seen because of the $0.00 balance on your card. The trick used to be to keep an extra $0.05 cents on the card so the transfer was seen, but after mentioning it to them, they fixed it. I found it wild that they were not aware of this problem, but when they explained it to me, it made sense.

The above situation is not an issue on OMNY either I notice, so I can reload my card with just the amount I need for the day if I wish and my transfer is seen.

[Lawrence St]

2 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I have met some of them personally, so depending on who responds, I know whether the info is accurate or not. I have a few in my group in fact that assist from time to time. Some are indeed new and some aren't.

Right...  His question was about OMNY though. There are some limitations with the Metrocard because it is dated technology, and I do wonder about the scenario you mentioned... If for example, it was a programming issue before they allowed you to add money to Metrocard passes. I definitely recall when you could not use any unlimited card on the express bus save the regular Express Bus Plus Metrocard. My guess is somebody complained, or they saw all of the people trying to use their Metrocard in that way, but since you can add money to a Metrocard now, maybe that was the trick or they could reprogram it so that the pass is seen with the money and they just deduct that $4.00. 

They actually fixed another issue a while ago that I brought up to them about not getting a transfer if there is zero balance on your card. For example, if you had the exact amount on your card (say $6.75), dipped and then needed to transfer to the subway, local bus or another express bus, the transfer previously would not be seen because of the $0.00 balance on your card. The trick used to be to keep an extra $0.05 cents on the card so the transfer was seen, but after mentioning it to them, they fixed it. I found it wild that they were not aware of this problem, but when they explained it to me, it made sense.

The above situation is not an issue on OMNY either I notice, so I can reload my card with just the amount I need for the day if I wish and my transfer is seen.

I agree. But it still sucks as we can't use unlimited OMNY cards yet.  That should have been done from the start, if you have a regular unlimited metrocard, it should always deduct $4 instead of the full fare, regardless if you swiped in the subway or not.

Perhaps you can bring this up at your next meeting to have this feature added to OMNY?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 hour ago, Lawrence St said:

I agree. But it still sucks as we can't use unlimited OMNY cards yet.  That should have been done from the start, if you have a regular unlimited metrocard, it should always deduct $4 instead of the full fare, regardless if you swiped in the subway or not.

Perhaps you can bring this up at your next meeting to have this feature added to OMNY?

As far as OMNY goes, there is nothing myself or anyone else can do to expedite the process in part for two reasons:

1. The plan was always to implement OMNY in stages in part because I was told they weren't sure what they wanted to do in terms of if they were introducing fare capping, passes, etc. and more importantly, they wanted to make sure that OMNY was reliable and secure first and foremost, and the only way to ensure reliability and security is by working on things in stages.

2. With the ongoing bugs they are encountering, that has delayed things like the reduced fare OMNY pass and the other passes. There is too much money invested in this payment system to go back now, so we'll have to be patient while they work out the kinks.

Edited March 1, 2022 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Lawrence St]

16 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

As far as OMNY goes, there is nothing myself or anyone else can do to expedite the process in part for two reasons:

1. The plan was always to implement OMNY in stages in part because I was told they weren't sure what they wanted to do in terms of if they were introducing fare capping, passes, etc. and more importantly, they wanted to make sure that OMNY was reliable and secure first and foremost, and the only way to ensure reliability and security is by working on things in stages.

2. With the ongoing bugs they are encountering, that has delayed things like the reduced fare OMNY pass and the other passes. There is too much money invested in this payment system to go back now, so we'll have to be patient while they work out the kinks.

That I understand, I mean talk to them about adding the feature at the end.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

3 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

That I understand, I mean talk to them about adding the feature at the end.

Adding what feature? Unlimited OMNY cards? That's an  Board decision. Anything fare related like passes, fare capping, etc., has to be voted on by the board and passed. The issue I mentioned earlier with the Metrocard problem was an error, so that I was able to get fixed.