OMNY Implementation/Metro-Card Retirement Discussion Thread

[rbrome]

19 hours ago, mikecintel said:

... for the regular Metro Card for 7 days if you start to use on Sunday isn't it suppose to end the following Saturday?  The rep told me if you that for example on Wednesday you reach to $33 and it will be automatic ungraded to Unlimited (I understand that part) but she tells me it will END the coming Sunday NOT next Tuesday.  How can that be 7 days unlimited?  It's only 5 days unlimited then.   Am I missing something here?   I see about the advantage you are right.

But if "on Wednesday you reach to $33" then you probably started using it a few days earlier, so it started then, not on Wednesday. "7 day unlimited" never started when you reached $33 worth of rides. It starts when you... start using it. 

When it's "automatically upgraded to unlimited", it's retro-active to include all the rides you've taken since Monday morning. That works out just like a 7-day unlimited MetroCard that you started using Monday morning. 

Where you are correct is that the fixed Monday-Sunday timeframe is a new limitation. It means someone who's only in town from Thursday to the following Wednesday probably won't be able to save any money with this, whereas they might with the old product. But at least they aren't going to buy a card and then get screwed; making it an automatic upgrade makes it something people just don't have to think about. 

If you're a local who rides every day, the Monday-Sunday thing won't make a difference. It seems to be designed for such people. 

The other thing is that I haven't heard any word yet on a monthly unlimited option with OMNY. If they eliminate that in favor of just this weekly cap, that will be an effective fare hike for some people. 

[mikecintel]

3 hours ago, rbrome said:

But if "on Wednesday you reach to $33" then you probably started using it a few days earlier, so it started then, not on Wednesday. "7 day unlimited" never started when you reached $33 worth of rides. It starts when you... start using it. 

When it's "automatically upgraded to unlimited", it's retro-active to include all the rides you've taken since Monday morning. That works out just like a 7-day unlimited MetroCard that you started using Monday morning. 

Where you are correct is that the fixed Monday-Sunday timeframe is a new limitation. It means someone who's only in town from Thursday to the following Wednesday probably won't be able to save any money with this, whereas they might with the old product. But at least they aren't going to buy a card and then get screwed; making it an automatic upgrade makes it something people just don't have to think about. 

If you're a local who rides every day, the Monday-Sunday thing won't make a difference. It seems to be designed for such people. 

The other thing is that I haven't heard any word yet on a monthly unlimited option with OMNY. If they eliminate that in favor of just this weekly cap, that will be an effective fare hike for some people. 

Yes what meant was the 7 day unlimited starts when you start to use it.  The new pilot structure should be like the 7 day unlimited after you got to $33 it should start that day when you get the $33 and ends the next week.  But like you said this is a new fare payment system and it is different so I am not going to argue over this.  I see by what you mean automatically upgraded to unlimited and it is retro-active to include all rides you taken since Monday morning when it gets to $33.  Yes that is true when someone is out of town from Thursday and when Monday day comes they will not be able to save at all.  Yes that comes in handy to use the "old product 7 days unlimited".  I see but to me it makes no difference because I do track my usage.  I don't ride the bus/subway everyday except when I go to work Mon-Fri but for me I can easily hit $33 because for one day I pay $11 a day.  I travel from Queens to Brooklyn to work and it does work out. For regular people not need to commute that long they will not keeping on using OMNY just to reach $33 just to get the unlimited because that is stupid.  I see yes you are correct it seems it is designed for such people.  I heard the press conference and some one ask about the 30 days unlimited and Sarah Myers says they are "Expanding" but they didn't go into details at all about the 30 day unlimited with OMNY.  I hope they DON"T ELIMINATE that in favor for this weekly cap because I will be VERY angry.  A lot of people will be angry not just me then if it comes to that.

Anyway I am looking forward for the June MTA meeting because they will talk about OMNY again. Let's see in 4 months will there be better news by then.  My fingers are crossed.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

3 hours ago, rbrome said:

But if "on Wednesday you reach to $33" then you probably started using it a few days earlier, so it started then, not on Wednesday. "7 day unlimited" never started when you reached $33 worth of rides. It starts when you... start using it. 

When it's "automatically upgraded to unlimited", it's retro-active to include all the rides you've taken since Monday morning. That works out just like a 7-day unlimited MetroCard that you started using Monday morning. 

Where you are correct is that the fixed Monday-Sunday timeframe is a new limitation. It means someone who's only in town from Thursday to the following Wednesday probably won't be able to save any money with this, whereas they might with the old product. But at least they aren't going to buy a card and then get screwed; making it an automatic upgrade makes it something people just don't have to think about. 

If you're a local who rides every day, the Monday-Sunday thing won't make a difference. It seems to be designed for such people. 

The other thing is that I haven't heard any word yet on a monthly unlimited option with OMNY. If they eliminate that in favor of just this weekly cap, that will be an effective fare hike for some people. 

You haven't heard of anything yet in part because they are figuring this thing out as they go along. Believe it or not when I met with them I wanna say around 2019, even back then they weren't sure if they would have fare capping, passes or what. They were more concerned about security and reliability, which makes sense, but at the same time, for a payment system that has been tested as long as OMNY has, it's surprising to still see so many software issues. I mean the passes at this point are the least of their problems if the payment system isn't secure and reliable. 

[rbrome]

2 hours ago, mikecintel said:

The new pilot structure should be like the 7 day unlimited after you got to $33 it should start that day when you get the $33 and ends the next week. 

I'm afraid I don't understand where you're getting this idea. It has never worked that way here, and I've never heard of such a scheme being implemented anywhere. 

[mikecintel]

14 minutes ago, rbrome said:

I'm afraid I don't understand where you're getting this idea. It has never worked that way here, and I've never heard of such a scheme being implemented anywhere. 

The idea was from the "old Metro card 7 day unlimited"  that is where I got it from.  I did not make up this idea.  Metro card 7 day unlimited for example I start Wednesday and next Tuesday it ends my unlimited.  It starts from when I first use the unlimited card for the 7 day. So like I said I though the new OMNY cap is like the 7 day unlimited metro card so now I know that I got the idea wrong.  You see what I was saying if it is like the 7 day unlimited metro card start from Wednesday reach up to $33 and it starts then and next Tuesday my unlimited ride ends. Then the day after Tuesday it starts all over where I have to reach another $33 in order to get the unlimited rides again.

[rbrome]

17 hours ago, mikecintel said:

Metro card 7 day unlimited for example I start Wednesday and next Tuesday it ends my unlimited.  It starts from when I first use the unlimited card for the 7 day. 

Yes! Correct! With MetroCard, the seven days started whenever you started using it, and with OMNY that is changing to only start on Monday. That is a bummer. 

17 hours ago, mikecintel said:

You see what I was saying if it is like the 7 day unlimited metro card start from Wednesday reach up to $33 and it starts then and next Tuesday my unlimited ride ends. 

This is where you lost me because you seem to be directly contradicting what you said above. Are you saying you spent all $33 in one day, on Wednesday? Not that it matters, because with MetroCard, the only "threshold" you "reached" was whether you were getting a good deal on what you had already purchased. With the OMNY fare cap, you're never getting a bad deal, you're just paying per ride, or getting a better deal thanks to the cap. 

18 hours ago, mikecintel said:

The idea was from the "old Metro card 7 day unlimited"  that is where I got it from.  I did not make up this idea.

You seemed to be suggesting that the fare cap meant you could spend $33 over five days and then get seven days of free rides after that, spending $33 for 12 days of rides. That would be crazy. Why would the MTA do that? 

[mikecintel]

On 2/12/2022 at 5:01 PM, rbrome said:

Yes! Correct! With MetroCard, the seven days started whenever you started using it, and with OMNY that is changing to only start on Monday. That is a bummer. 

This is where you lost me because you seem to be directly contradicting what you said above. Are you saying you spent all $33 in one day, on Wednesday? Not that it matters, because with MetroCard, the only "threshold" you "reached" was whether you were getting a good deal on what you had already purchased. With the OMNY fare cap, you're never getting a bad deal, you're just paying per ride, or getting a better deal thanks to the cap. 

You seemed to be suggesting that the fare cap meant you could spend $33 over five days and then get seven days of free rides after that, spending $33 for 12 days of rides. That would be crazy. Why would the MTA do that? 

What I was trying to say if for example Wednesday anyone spent $33 in one day (Who would do that?) and the unlimited kicks in automatically like it is suppose to do on OMNY and it should end on the following Tuesday because $33 is an equivalent of a 7 day Metro Card.  That is what I am trying to say here.  I am not suggestion I spending $33 over 5 days and then get 7 days of free rides at all. I am just saying it "should be like the 7 day Metro Card" after you get to the $33 it will start when even you reach to $33 and from the day you reach that amount it should end in 7 days just like a 7 day Metro Card that is all.  But anyway OMNY is OMNY and that is how they want to implement it and it is fine. I hope I explain this clearly.

I just read that Canada Toronto they want to switch to "cap fares" just like MTA.  At least in Toronto they have "Daily" cap but we don't have that.  They will have Daily, Weekly, and Monthly caps.  Have to see if in Canada Toronto when they do implement that I have to compare how there fare caps to the MTA here.

[mikecintel]

Sorry to be off topic but is anyone getting instant email when someone replies to the current forum.  I subscribe and when ever there is someone reply or post I always get instant email saying that someone post or reply so I can reply to them.  But these few days I have being emails that was replied being "delayed" and therefore I reply to email late.  Is anyone having that problem or is it only me.

Edited February 17, 2022 by mikecintel

[7-express]

Looks like retail availability for OMNY isn't going to improve too much over the next few months.  Sales have only been a few thousand cards and I bet half of them are probably railfans.  The MTA needs to do a better job at outreach and educating commuters besides a few ads and press releases.

https://gothamist.com/news/mta-struggles-get-omny-cards-stores

[Via Garibaldi 8]

4 hours ago, 7-express said:

Looks like retail availability for OMNY isn't going to improve too much over the next few months.  Sales have only been a few thousand cards and I bet half of them are probably railfans.  The MTA needs to do a better job at outreach and educating commuters besides a few ads and press releases.

https://gothamist.com/news/mta-struggles-get-omny-cards-stores

It's not the commuters that are the problem. It's the stores. They are NOT easy to get. Some places have them, but don't know how to activate them. The merchant has to activate them or they can't be used. Other places have them in back rooms, but not out to purchase. 

[mikecintel]

7 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

It's not the commuters that are the problem. It's the stores. They are NOT easy to get. Some places have them, but don't know how to activate them. The merchant has to activate them or they can't be used. Other places have them in back rooms, but not out to purchase. 

I called Walgreens and they tell me they don't have the scanner activated and there is trouble and so they called "Tech support" to solve it. Is that true?

[bobtehpanda]

3 hours ago, mikecintel said:

I called Walgreens and they tell me they don't have the scanner activated and there is trouble and so they called "Tech support" to solve it. Is that true?

Most of the national drugstores are run like shit across the country. All about driving costs down.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

6 hours ago, mikecintel said:

I called Walgreens and they tell me they don't have the scanner activated and there is trouble and so they called "Tech support" to solve it. Is that true?

lol I don't know if it's true or not, but it wouldn't surprise me. The people working at those places are barely trained and turnover is high for a number of reasons. I actually checked a number of check cashing places just because years ago when I used to get TransitChek, I would get "checks" to buy my Metrocards and those places usually carry what I needed. Well for OMNY, only one of the check cashing places knew about the cards. The others had no clue of what I was talking about. The only reason I was able to buy an OMNY card is because after I called the one check cashing place that had them and went there, only to find out that their scanner was broken (didn't mention that when I called earlier in the day), I decided to just check out a 7/11 nearby and lucked out. They literally had two left and the guy in the store (likely the owner) knew what they were and directed me to the rack where they had them, so it was clear that they were selling a lot of them.  Unlike the big chain stores, the 7/11s are a bunch of franchises, and the owners are more aware of what they sell, what their costs are and what they need to do to stay in the black, so it doesn't shock me that they were up on OMNY.

I would imagine that the  still pays the merchants a small commission for carrying/selling OMNY, just as they do for carrying/selling the Metrocards. It's something like 2%, but if you do a high volume then you can bring in more money into your business. Any smart franchise owner would have a POS system to assist them in seeing what items sell and what don't, as they have to use their store space wisely. Meanwhile, you have the large chains that are keeping the OMNY cards in the backroom. Why? Because the people working there don't care and it's likely a lot of the managers running the stores are in and out, so no consistency in how things are run.

Corporate can often times be in another State and in most cases, they have no idea about the local nuances from store to store.

Edited February 22, 2022 by Via Garibaldi 8

[mikecintel]

7 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

Most of the national drugstores are run like shit across the country. All about driving costs down.

I see

[mikecintel]

4 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

lol I don't know if it's true or not, but it wouldn't surprise me. The people working at those places are barely trained and turnover is high for a number of reasons. I actually checked a number of check cashing places just because years ago when I used to get TransitChek, I would get "checks" to buy my Metrocards and those places usually carry what I needed. Well for OMNY, only one of the check cashing places knew about the cards. The others had no clue of what I was talking about. The only reason I was able to buy an OMNY card is because after I called the one check cashing place that had them and went there, only to find out that their scanner was broken (didn't mention that when I called earlier in the day), I decided to just check out a 7/11 nearby and lucked out. They literally had two left and the guy in the store (likely the owner) knew what they were and directed me to the rack where they had them, so it was clear that they were selling a lot of them.  Unlike the big chain stores, the 7/11s are a bunch of franchises, and the owners are more aware of what they sell, what their costs are and what they need to do to stay in the black, so it doesn't shock me that they were up on OMNY.

I would imagine that the  still pays the merchants a small commission for carrying/selling OMNY, just as they do for carrying/selling the Metrocards. It's something like 2%, but if you do a high volume then you can bring in more money into your business. Any smart franchise owner would have a POS system to assist them in seeing what items sell and what don't, as they have to use their store space wisely. Meanwhile, you have the large chains that are keeping the OMNY cards in the backroom. Why? Because the people working there don't care and it's likely a lot of the managers running the stores are in and out, so no consistency in how things are run.

Corporate can often times be in another State and in most cases, they have no idea about the local nuances from store to store.

That is true.

[mikecintel]

I have to slap myself in the face LOL because what I said I will not use the OMNY (pilot phase) until when the make it like the 7 days unlimited card that you can use it "any time" instead of restricted like now only Mon- Sun because I just found out next week I have to go back into the office and I will have 1 or 2 days remote only and in that case I have to use the 7 day unlimited now instead of the 30 days.  Well now I will use it during the pilot.  I will have to buy a OMNY card though instead of using my credit card.  Does anyone know if i can pay it with my credit card when I buy like from Walgreens or 7 Eleven?  Also when adding the payment when purchasing the card and I know it is $5 and if I add let's say $11 will it become $16? and also does it have the "bonus" or not?  I want to make so I have no balance left.

[Deucey]

1 hour ago, mikecintel said:

I have to slap myself in the face LOL because what I said I will not use the OMNY (pilot phase) until when the make it like the 7 days unlimited card that you can use it "any time" instead of restricted like now only Mon- Sun because I just found out next week I have to go back into the office and I will have 1 or 2 days remote only and in that case I have to use the 7 day unlimited now instead of the 30 days.  Well now I will use it during the pilot.  I will have to buy a OMNY card though instead of using my credit card.  Does anyone know if i can pay it with my credit card when I buy like from Walgreens or 7 Eleven?  Also when adding the payment when purchasing the card and I know it is $5 and if I add let's say $11 will it become $16? and also does it have the "bonus" or not?  I want to make so I have no balance left.

Why don’t you just use your phone/smart watch?

[mikecintel]

3 hours ago, Deucey said:

Why don’t you just use your phone/smart watch?

My phone doesn't have a NFC function and it is a Motorola phone E6 and therefore I will use the OMNY Card.  I have to upgrade my phone anyway.  My Android 9 phone is not supported anymore so I will have to upgrade my phone this year.  I will have to see what NEW Android devices are good because next week is Mobile Congress (sorry to go off topic)  I don't have a smart watch.  I don't want to use my credit card because it has the numbers are the back of the card.

Edited February 26, 2022 by mikecintel

[Via Garibaldi 8]

13 minutes ago, mikecintel said:

My phone doesn't have a NFC function and it is a Motorola phone E6 and therefore I will use the OMNY Card.  I have to upgrade my phone anyway.  My Android 9 phone is not supported anymore so I will have to upgrade my phone this year.  I will have to see what NEW Android devices are good because next week is Mobile Congress (sorry to go off topic)  I don't have a smart watch.  I don't want to use my credit card because it has the numbers are the back of the card.

The numbers are on the back of the card because the assumption is that you'll be using the contactless feature to pay for things. I have a few cards like this as well.

[mikecintel]

5 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

The numbers are on the back of the card because the assumption is that you'll be using the contactless feature to pay for things. I have a few cards like this as well.

OK I see thanks.  Do you know if you buy the OMNY Card will there be a "bonus" like the Metro Card so when I do purchase it I can make sure it goes to no balance left on the OMNY card?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

4 hours ago, mikecintel said:

OK I see thanks.  Do you know if you buy the OMNY Card will there be a "bonus" like the Metro Card so when I do purchase it I can make sure it goes to no balance left on the OMNY card?

No bonus. Besides, there's no bonus for any Metrocard purchase either. That was done away with years ago.  You need $5.00 to buy an OMNY card and at least $1.00 to activate it with. Bring cash so that you aren't charged any other fees. Once you load it with a $1.00, you can re-load it on the OMNY website with whatever amount you want (I think the minimum re-load amount though is $1.00), which I'm sure is due to the credit/debit card processing fee that the  has to pay. Since they do a very large volume, the fees they have to pay out to the card issuers is low. You can re-load at the stores too if you want to pay in cash, but that seems like a hassle. The main benefit of the OMNY card is not having to go anywhere to refill. You can refill right at home before you head out to commute to wherever.

I like the idea that I can top off my card with the exact amount I need for my trips. I loaded my card online for like six express bus rides yesterday, but that usually is stretched even longer because it seems as if at least once a week, an OMNY reader is broken on the express bus. lol Yesterday my trip to the City was free. I think overall it's the buses (local and express) where you may find yourself not paying. With the subways, I encountered one frozen OMNY reader AFTER getting off of the express bus with the free ride, but found another reader that worked, so paid the $2.75.

Edited February 26, 2022 by Via Garibaldi 8

[mikecintel]

3 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

No bonus. Besides, there's no bonus for any Metrocard purchase either. That was done away with years ago.  You need $5.00 to buy an OMNY card and at least $1.00 to activate it with. Bring cash so that you aren't charged any other fees. Once you load it with a $1.00, you can re-load it on the OMNY website with whatever amount you want (I think the minimum re-load amount though is $1.00), which I'm sure is due to the credit/debit card processing fee that the  has to pay. Since they do a very large volume, the fees they have to pay out to the card issuers is low. You can re-load at the stores too if you want to pay in cash, but that seems like a hassle. The main benefit of the OMNY card is not having to go anywhere to refill. You can refill right at home before you head out to commute to wherever.

I like the idea that I can top off my card with the exact amount I need for my trips. I loaded my card online for like six express bus rides yesterday, but that usually is stretched even longer because it seems as if at least once a week, an OMNY reader is broken on the express bus. lol Yesterday my trip to the City was free. I think overall it's the buses (local and express) where you may find yourself not paying. With the subways, I encountered one frozen OMNY reader AFTER getting off of the express bus with the free ride, but found another reader that worked, so paid the $2.75.

Thanks I forgot about there are no bonuses since 2019. Yes the advantage of OMNY is you don't need to go to machines and refill it.  Yes if the OMNY you save money ( well kind of that if the return trip is broken too LOL).  Yes usually it's the buses that the OMNY reader breaks.  The subways rarely break.  Thanks for the info.

[N6 Limited]

On 2/11/2022 at 2:49 PM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Not clear yet, and with the software issues, everything is delayed now. I pretty much switched over to OMNY, but if I need Metro-North, what I do now is either walk to the station since it's a 15 minute walk or just go by car, as I can't pay for the shuttle bus since it does not take OMNY. It's so funny because the shuttle bus drivers see me and open the door for me, but I don't get on, as I wait for the express bus since it takes OMNY. I inquired about a timeline and they couldn't provide anything.

Has using OMNY (so far) made much of a difference other than your use of the shuttle? (For example, have you had re-swiping issues with Metrocard and now that's been a non-issue? Has it been a somewhat negligible shift?)

[Via Garibaldi 8]

45 minutes ago, N6 Limited said:

Has using OMNY (so far) made much of a difference other than your use of the shuttle? (For example, have you had re-swiping issues with Metrocard and now that's been a non-issue? Has it been a somewhat negligible shift?)

To be honest, it's been great. I absolutely love the convenience of just refilling online at home or wherever without having to go to a subway station and being on my way.  When I first started using it with my phone, it was terrible.  Some people have noted that it just doesn't work well with their phones, and in my case, either it worked on the first tap, or usually it didn't work at all. I tap everywhere else with my phone just fine, so I know it's OMNY and thus just switched to using contactless cards last year.  When the OMNY cards became available, I switched over to that just because I don't like having my debit or credit card info on display as I'm tapping and plus if you are being charged erroneously, you can just get another OMNY card versus having to have your card issuer send you a brand new one.  A PITA for obvious reasons...  Out of all of the taps I've done with my OMNY card, I think I've had to tap again a handful of times.  I recommend linking any payment method you use to your OMNY account so that you can see if you are being charged by accident.  That has happened to me three times and each time OMNY said they would fix it and never did. I got my money back, but the random charges did not stop until I outright cancelled the card and they had no explanation for the charges.  They were even charging me on days that I wasn't traveling. Random $2.75 charges or other odd amounts.

There are also some issues with the readers themselves, but those aren't my problem. I've found quite a few of them to be broken (frozen, completely off, or "NOT IN SERVICE"). I encounter at least one, two or more a week, and I'm only traveling a few days a week most weeks, so on average I'm getting one or two trips free a week at $6.75 a pop most of the time.  On that end, the  needs to get it together.

The one thing I have really been curious about is its ability to really do high volume taps.  If someone taps before you and then you have to tap, you may get an error message or a "TAP AGAIN" message because it doesn't appear to complete the transactions as quickly as the Metrocard does.  The other thing to be super careful about is keeping any contactless cards or your phone away from the reader that you aren't using to pay with. A number of people have been erroneously charged because of this.  I believe they tweaked the range of the readers already, but better to be safe than sorry.

Edited February 28, 2022 by Via Garibaldi 8

[mikecintel]

Hi Everyone,

Does anyone have this problem which I am not complain but I want to know if it happens to other people.  The thing is it "credits" me back sometimes when I pay the fare does anyone know why and there one time it took "$0.50 cent only" when I paid the fare.  Below is what happened:

Mar. 8, 2022   Personal funds   Trip Payment  -$2.75  $22.00

Mar. 8, 2022  Personal funds  Credit  $2.75   $24.75

Mar. 8, 2022  Personal funds  Credit  $2.75  $27.50

Mar. 8, 2022 Personal funds  Credit  $2.75  $30.25

Mar. 8, 2022  Personal funds Trip Payment   -$2.75   $27.50

Mar. 9, 2022   Personal funds   Trip Payment  -$2.75  $8.25

Mar. 9, 2022  Personal funds  Trip Payment  -$2.75  $5.50

Mar. 9, 2022  Personal funds  Trip Payment  -$0.50  $5.00

Mar. 9, 2022  Personal funds  Trip Payment  -$2.25  $2.75

Mar. 14, 2022  Personal funds  Trip Payment  -$2.75  $24.75

Mar. 14, 2022  Personal funds   Credit   $2.75   $27.50

Mar. 14, 2022  Personal funds  Trip Payment  -$2.75   $24.75

This is very interesting IF you are using the OMNY card tough because when I used my credit card before I purchase the OMNY card it never happen like this.