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T to Dyre Avenue

Now it’s $2 Billion for Cuomo’s Air Gravy Train!

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Posted (edited)

It’s not every day, or even every year, I find myself agreeing with a New York Post editorial, but here it is...

https://nypost.com/2019/07/01/the-2b-lunacy-of-the-la-guardia-airtrain/

And it really is lunacy. I mean pretty much everything about this project just doesn’t make sense from the price to the politics, and of course, the route itself. And now, Prince Andrew apparently wants the MTA to contribute to building it. Just consider this more proof that this guy’s got to have everything his way or no way. And one more reason not to like him as Governor. 

http://www.subchat.com/read.asp?Id=1517305

Well at this point, you’ve got to wonder if it would be cheaper to just buy out the property owners on 31st Street. Or might today’s property owners be a bit more open to a concrete el as opposed to an old-fashioned steel el? Maybe not, but perhaps the PA and possibly the should actually try reaching out to the community to see if the attitude towards an (N)(W) (or de-interlined (R) or (W)) extension to LGA has changed over the past two decades. You never know...

 

Edited by T to Dyre Avenue
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32 minutes ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

It’s not every day, or even every year, I find myself agreeing with a New York Post editorial, but here it is...

https://nypost.com/2019/07/01/the-2b-lunacy-of-the-la-guardia-airtrain/

And it really is lunacy. I mean pretty much everything about this project just doesn’t make sense from the price to the politics, and of course, the route itself. And now, Prince Andrew apparently wants the MTA to contribute to building it. Just consider this more proof that this guy’s got to have everything his way or no way. Sick, just sick. 

http://www.subchat.com/read.asp?Id=1517305

Well at this point, you’ve got to wonder if it would be cheaper to just buy out the property owners on 31st Street. Or might today’s property owners be a bit more open to a concrete el as opposed to an old-fashioned steel el? Maybe not, but perhaps the PA and possibly the should actually try reaching out to the community to see if the attitude towards an (N)(W) (or de-interlined (W)) extension to LGA has changed over the past two decades. You never know...

 

Hell, you could even bring up the idea of stacking it around the bend at 20th Avenue...

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55 minutes ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

It’s not every day, or even every year, I find myself agreeing with a New York Post editorial, but here it is...

https://nypost.com/2019/07/01/the-2b-lunacy-of-the-la-guardia-airtrain/

And it really is lunacy. I mean pretty much everything about this project just doesn’t make sense from the price to the politics, and of course, the route itself. And now, Prince Andrew apparently wants the MTA to contribute to building it. Just consider this more proof that this guy’s got to have everything his way or no way. And one more reason not to like him as Governor. 

http://www.subchat.com/read.asp?Id=1517305

Well at this point, you’ve got to wonder if it would be cheaper to just buy out the property owners on 31st Street. Or might today’s property owners be a bit more open to a concrete el as opposed to an old-fashioned steel el? Maybe not, but perhaps the PA and possibly the should actually try reaching out to the community to see if the attitude towards an (N)(W) (or de-interlined (R) or (W)) extension to LGA has changed over the past two decades. You never know...

 

Showing all Cuomo seems to care about are:

Himself

His Donors.

As for the extension of the Astoria line, you probably still have some "old guard" types (or equally as important, their heirs) who likely are concerned even a modern El would result in property values declining, still thinking everyone is like them and that no one will buy (especially children who plan to sell such as soon as their parents die off, looking to reel in huge money for themselves).  

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I have mixed feelings on the LGA AirTrain in light of the NY Post editorial. On the one hand, I'm a proponent of the LGA AirTrain. I've even stated as much in some comments here:

 

I wouldn't mind having an easy ride between N/E Queens and LGA as I live in N/E Queens. I also think that it is a good idea to have some kind of rail service complement the existing ground transportation services (local and SBS buses, shuttle buses, car services, etc). I find it takes quite awhile to travel by ground transportation, alone. It is for this reason, and the existing constraints that exist circa 2020 (we can't extend the N train without disrupting people's lives), that on the surface, I support the LGA AirTrain construction.

What I an NOT in favor of are significant cost overruns without any say-so by those that should keep Cuomo in check (ie -State Assembly, State Senate, etc). Budget overruns happen. They're not ideal, but at least the control of such finances should be done in the light of day.

In short, LGA AirTrain  - mostly good; Significant cost overruns and budget trickery by the Gov - BAD.

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@Uncle Floyd Fan Agreed, the overruns continually displayed on all levels of government here only tend to sink this project further into the rabbit hole and, overall, work against it's completion. By NY standards, this has already gotten really bad...  

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1 hour ago, Uncle Floyd Fan said:

I have mixed feelings on the LGA AirTrain in light of the NY Post editorial. On the one hand, I'm a proponent of the LGA AirTrain. I've even stated as much in some comments here:

 

I wouldn't mind having an easy ride between N/E Queens and LGA as I live in N/E Queens. I also think that it is a good idea to have some kind of rail service complement the existing ground transportation services (local and SBS buses, shuttle buses, car services, etc). I find it takes quite awhile to travel by ground transportation, alone. It is for this reason, and the existing constraints that exist circa 2020 (we can't extend the N train without disrupting people's lives), that on the surface, I support the LGA AirTrain construction.

What I an NOT in favor of are significant cost overruns without any say-so by those that should keep Cuomo in check (ie -State Assembly, State Senate, etc). Budget overruns happen. They're not ideal, but at least the control of such finances should be done in the light of day.

In short, LGA AirTrain  - mostly good; Significant cost overruns and budget trickery by the Gov - BAD.

Gonna differ from you here. If the Q70 had real dedicated infrastructure, it'd be faster than this proposed AirTrain, and would provide eminently better connections -- but buses are second class transit in NYC, so no dice there.

I think the real story here (as many, many others have pointed out) is that the potential disruption of a (N) extension is seen as insurmountable. With NYC's NIMBY politics, I don't doubt that conclusion, but it's one that should disturb us. Most other cities in the world and even in the US (a country that systematically empowers NIMBY voices) are building elevated lines left and right; it's a relatively NYC-specific phenomenon that they're seen as a political non-starter. This is of course partially a consequence of our existing els, but given the difficulty seen in constructing subways in this city (there have been lawsuits and complaints about station exits for SAS, vibrations from trains 80' underground, etc), I would think that even the quietest of els would incite strong opposition -- opposition that would be catered to by everyone involved, the majority benefit provided nonwithstanding. This is essentially tyrrany by NIMBY, and is a antidemocratic system that needs to be thoroughly examined as we s l o w l y wake up to the consequences decades of poor land use, transit, and urban management decisions have wrought on this city. 

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Posted (edited)

Now I'm really hoping for Joe Biden to win the nomination and take Cuomo as his running mate.

If anything it'll put a pause on most of his lunacy in 2020.

Edited by paulrivera
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1 hour ago, RR503 said:

If the Q70 had real dedicated infrastructure, it'd be faster than this proposed AirTrain, and would provide eminently better connections

That's a big IF. East Elmhurst and Jackson Heights always seem to have wall-to wall traffic. NYC isn't like Pittsburgh or other cities where we can simply build a busway within a year or two and have the buses magically run faster. In the section of Queens where the Q70 operates, dedicated bus lanes and priority-synced traffic lights (technology to give the bus a green light sooner or hold a green light for an approaching bus) are a non-starter. Too many people in such a small space with bikes, cars, trucks and so on. All the drivers and passengers can have on the Q70 is patience (that's what I need to have when I return to LGA and head home - whether by taxi or Q70 to the Port Washington Branch).

1 hour ago, RR503 said:

This is essentially tyrrany by NIMBY, and is a antidemocratic system that needs to be thoroughly examined as we s l o w l y wake up to the consequences decades of poor land use, transit, and urban management decisions have wrought on this city. 

That depends on one's perspective. Some people might like the beaches and bridges that Robert Moses planned and built. But if you asked someone who was displaced in order to build the Cross Bronx Expressway, they'd tell a different tale. Is it really NIMBY, or is it a case of eminent domain? Eminent domain involves the seizing of land by the government for a 'market price'. Granted, the seizing of land is supposed to be done for the greater good. However, the greater good is sometimes in the eye of the beholder.

Would you consider the market price to be fair if you lived on 31 Street in Astoria (especially if you lived there for a long time, and/or you owned property in the area) --- would the price be high enough for you? Who is being tyrannical then, the govt actor(s) (whoever the officeholder(s) might be) who wish to seize your land for the purposes of building a train corridor to LGA, or the long-time resident or business owner who wishes to remain in their home or business which they've invested a lot of time and soul into building / maintaining?

I agree that we as a city (and a country) need to better manage the use of our land. Perhaps a politician at some point will have the will to hire competent planners to plan out a connection from Ditmars Blvd to LGA (it doesn't look too far on a google map), as well as have the financial capital to pay out funds to those that have been displaced. Until that day arrives, we need to make the best of the situation that we are currently in.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Uncle Floyd Fan said:

That's a big IF. East Elmhurst and Jackson Heights always seem to have wall-to wall traffic. NYC isn't like Pittsburgh or other cities where we can simply build a busway within a year or two and have the buses magically run faster. In the section of Queens where the Q70 operates, dedicated bus lanes and priority-synced traffic lights (technology to give the bus a green light sooner or hold a green light for an approaching bus) are a non-starter. Too many people in such a small space with bikes, cars, trucks and so on. All the drivers and passengers can have on the Q70 is patience (that's what I need to have when I return to LGA and head home - whether by taxi or Q70 to the Port Washington Branch).

Enacting bus priority policies in congested parts of town are exactly the sorts of interventions cities like NYC need to be making. The amount of direct and indirect productivity loss we incur on a daily basis because of this sort of nonsense is staggering; acquiescing to it is as much a non-starter as anything else. I'll leave what exact changes should be made to the traffic engineers, but I daresay the Q70 could be a hell of a lot more effective than it is today. 

1 hour ago, Uncle Floyd Fan said:

That depends on one's perspective. Some people might like the beaches and bridges that Robert Moses planned and built. But if you asked someone who was displaced in order to build the Cross Bronx Expressway, they'd tell a different tale. Is it really NIMBY, or is it a case of eminent domain? Eminent domain involves the seizing of land by the government for a 'market price'. Granted, the seizing of land is supposed to be done for the greater good. However, the greater good is sometimes in the eye of the beholder.

 Would you consider the market price to be fair if you lived on 31 Street in Astoria (especially if you lived there for a long time, and/or you owned property in the area) --- would the price be high enough for you? Who is being tyrannical then, the govt actor(s) (whoever the officeholder(s) might be) who wish to seize your land for the purposes of building a train corridor to LGA, or the long-time resident or business owner who wishes to remain in their home or business which they've invested a lot of time and soul into building / maintaining?

I agree that we as a city (and a country) need to better manage the use of our land. Perhaps a politician at some point will have the will to hire competent planners to plan out a connection from Ditmars Blvd to LGA (it doesn't look too far on a google map), as well as have the financial capital to pay out funds to those that have been displaced. Until that day arrives, we need to make the best of the situation that we are currently in.

Wowowowow. Slow down here. The issues of a) NIMBYism, b) eminent domain, and d) Robert Moses should not be conflated. At the risk of rearing a wall of text...

First of all, invocations of Robert Moses in conversations about urban community politics need to be limited to situations where they make sense: namely, discussions of anti-urban, discriminatory, value negative infrastructural interventions. Otherwise, his name merely serves to inflame discussions and empower those who see themselves as 'resistance' without due regard for real world context. Sort of like Godwin's law. A contemporary example of a Mosesian governmental action -- albeit in the world of land use planning -- would be the Bloomberg-era downzonings of many white, upper class neighborhoods and the concurrent upzoning of poorer, blacker/browner areas, or the persistent refusal of certain coalitions (looking at 14th Street right now) to surrender road space for bus improvements. The drivers of those actions? NIMBYs. Remember that 'community action' is largely the realm of the priveleged these days, an issue in its own right. 

On eminent domain: let's again go to the books before getting ahead of ourselves. The LGA AirTrain EIS (which, mind you, was written to find a predetermined conclusion, so put forth seemingly weak subway extensions) says the following on its chosen (N)(W) extension:

Quote

This alternative would require acquisition of portions of five privately owned commercial properties with a total area of about 20 acres; thus. However, only part of these properties would be needed for the right-of-way, so only partial property acquisition is needed.

The properties in question are I believe up by ConEd; there would be no destruction of businesses in the main parts of Astoria. 

But let's imagine for a second that there would be some property impact in Astoria itself: should that just stop a project? I think not. Governance is about tradeoffs. From traffic lights to income taxes, we accept imposed inconveniences in recognition that our submission to such things helps us achieve betterment. Eminent domain is another way in which imposition-for-the-greater-good manifests, albeit much more punitively than any tax or traffic light. It's for that latter reason that we have to be so careful when using eminent domain, and as you quite correctly note, it has been widely abused in the past. That said, we also cannot knee jerk away from an action when told that we may have to use eminent domain. We would have no subway, no water system, fewer roads, fewer parks, limited freight transport, no river bridges, etc, if it weren't for this particular power, and I daresay the assemblage of those networks is a greater good than the preservation of some home/business. So the question we should ask (with it, and really with every governmental power) is "how do we use it to achieve a given goal while causing the least harm?" 

To the issue of mechanics: the state paying fair market value for a property it wants seems...perfectly fair. For whatever it's worth, there's many a way to challenge assessed value in this state so if you feel you're being undercompensated you have recourse, and NYS also allows eminent domainers to make supplemental payments to owners/occupants of condemned properties to aid in relocation etc, so FMV isn't necessarily (likely would not be) all you would be paid. 

None of this is to say that any of this is likely to happen. Airlines have a mixed record when it comes to PFC use for rapid transit airport extensions, NYC law makes it exceedingly easy to NIMBY a project regardless of relative benefit, Cuomo has already made a choice, elevated lines have been legislated against, and no one likes anything but maintenance of the status quo in this city. But this is nevertheless a discussion worth having. 

Edited by RR503
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Granted, Robert Moses was viewed as a divisive figure for all of his classist pro-car, anti-mass transit, and anti-urban views and actions. What was interesting about the man is that he never learned to drive (he never owned a car). The Cross Bronx project affected people of many income strata, and was not a simple rich vs poor matter. Robert Moses even tried to seize land in the Carle Place / Westbury vicinity in order to build the Northern State Pkwy. However, the more affluent homeowners used their clout to get the highway re-routed away from their homes (this is why there is a curve on the NSP right before/after I.U. Willets Road).

Anyway, the point in bringing up Robert Moses is to show how we need to be mindful of any government entity that wishes to make any large scale changes which may have a significant impact on the lives of many people.

For a project like the AirTrain, we need to at least see, in part, one of the reasons for choosing the LGA to CitiField route (virtually zero eminent domain issues) as opposed to an N train - or AirTrain extension - from Ditmars Blvd which will pass through a residential area and at a minimum affect the lives of the people who live north of Ditmars Blvd on 31 St.

Granted, change needs to happen in order for a city to grow and/or be sustainable, but we need to pick the best way to do it. If a Ditmars to LGA link can work for less money and w/o a lot of community opposition, I'm all for it. All I'm saying is that we need to keep a proper perspective of NIMBYism, and be mindful of any changes the govt may wish to make for 'our own good'. Heck, I'll even include the current AirTrain plan in this line of thinking (not a bad plan in and of itself, but the cost overruns and lack of transparency are unacceptable).

As for the Q70 being able to do much better, then it would be best to make its entire route truck-free, car-free, and bike-free (and that won't happen any time soon - engineers can only do so much). 

 

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, Uncle Floyd Fan said:

That depends on one's perspective. Some people might like the beaches and bridges that Robert Moses planned and built. But if you asked someone who was displaced in order to build the Cross Bronx Expressway, they'd tell a different tale. Is it really NIMBY, or is it a case of eminent domain? Eminent domain involves the seizing of land by the government for a 'market price'. Granted, the seizing of land is supposed to be done for the greater good. However, the greater good is sometimes in the eye of the beholder.

Would you consider the market price to be fair if you lived on 31 Street in Astoria (especially if you lived there for a long time, and/or you owned property in the area) --- would the price be high enough for you? Who is being tyrannical then, the govt actor(s) (whoever the officeholder(s) might be) who wish to seize your land for the purposes of building a train corridor to LGA, or the long-time resident or business owner who wishes to remain in their home or business which they've invested a lot of time and soul into building / maintaining?

I agree that we as a city (and a country) need to better manage the use of our land. Perhaps a politician at some point will have the will to hire competent planners to plan out a connection from Ditmars Blvd to LGA (it doesn't look too far on a google map), as well as have the financial capital to pay out funds to those that have been displaced. Until that day arrives, we need to make the best of the situation that we are currently in.

Why can’t that day be today? Why keep putting it off? Competent urban planning that doesn’t knee-jerk acquiesce to NIMBYs and drivers was needed in this city at least 20 years ago.

The sad part about 31st Street, is that none of the residential or commercial properties between Ditmars and 20th Avenue have to be seized and demolished. This is in marked contrast to what happened in Chicago with the CTA’s project to rebuild Clark Junction, which is where the Brown Line ‘L’ joins the Red and Purple lines between the Belmont and Addison stations. The City of Chicago/CTA needed to demolish properties to build the flyover that will allow northbound Brown Line trains to cross over Red and Purple, instead of in front of them like the current flat junction requires. (Broadway-Myrtle Junction, anyone?)

At least residents don’t need to be relocated from 31st. And I’m pretty sure that the cars sitting in the parking lots lining 19th Avenue are not going to come to MTA or PA headquarters with picket signs and howls over how unfair the MTA is. And if even surface parking lots have friends in high places in this City, then that’s a pretty bad sign that the way we take care of our City and plan infrastructure really is broken. Why wouldn’t the state and PA at least talk to ConEd about running a elevated structure over their properties, some of which have literally nothing on them?  Government agencies can’t be functioning in their own silos. That’s extremely ineffective.

13 hours ago, RR503 said:

On eminent domain: let's again go to the books before getting ahead of ourselves. The LGA AirTrain EIS (which, mind you, was written to find a predetermined conclusion, so put forth seemingly weak subway extensions) says the following on its chosen (N)(W) extension:

The properties in question are I believe up by ConEd; there would be no destruction of businesses in the main parts of Astoria. 

But let's imagine for a second that there would be some property impact in Astoria itself: should that just stop a project? I think not. Governance is about tradeoffs. From traffic lights to income taxes, we accept imposed inconveniences in recognition that our submission to such things helps us achieve betterment. Eminent domain is another way in which imposition-for-the-greater-good manifests, albeit much more punitively than any tax or traffic light. It's for that latter reason that we have to be so careful when using eminent domain, and as you quite correctly note, it has been widely abused in the past. That said, we also cannot knee jerk away from an action when told that we may have to use eminent domain. We would have no subway, no water system, fewer roads, fewer parks, limited freight transport, no river bridges, etc, if it weren't for this particular power, and I daresay the assemblage of those networks is a greater good than the preservation of some home/business. So the question we should ask (with it, and really with every governmental power) is "how do we use it to achieve a given goal while causing the least harm?" 

To the issue of mechanics: the state paying fair market value for a property it wants seems...perfectly fair. For whatever it's worth, there's many a way to challenge assessed value in this state so if you feel you're being undercompensated you have recourse, and NYS also allows eminent domainers to make supplemental payments to owners/occupants of condemned properties to aid in relocation etc, so FMV isn't necessarily (likely would not be) all you would be paid. 

None of this is to say that any of this is likely to happen. Airlines have a mixed record when it comes to PFC use for rapid transit airport extensions, NYC law makes it exceedingly easy to NIMBY a project regardless of relative benefit, Cuomo has already made a choice, elevated lines have been legislated against, and no one likes anything but maintenance of the status quo in this city. But this is nevertheless a discussion worth having. 

Fully agreed. The fact that there hasn’t even been much communication between all the different agencies and stakeholders involved in rail to LGA is what’s really wrong with this project. Don’t choose the path of least resistance solely to get out of having to work with the City and other agencies. But that’s the Cuomo way. That’s “the way we’ve always done it.” And it’s not doing this City and its transit one damn bit of good.  

At least open up communication with Astoria residents between Ditmars and 20th and property owners on 19th. We can’t just act like nothing has changed in the 20+ years since they last studied the (N) extension and dismiss a subway extension outright. See what mitigation is there for said property owners before we dismiss the subway extension in favor of an Air Train that will be yet another feeder route to an already overfed (7)<7> line.

At least an (N)(W) extension (or (R) or (W) extension after Broadway is de-interlined) to LGA can be built in such a way that it could - perhaps at a later point - relieve the  (7)<7> in Flushing. An LGA Air Train can’t!

Edited by T to Dyre Avenue
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

Why can’t that day be today? Why keep putting it off? Competent urban planning that doesn’t knee-jerk acquiesce to NIMBYs and drivers was needed in this city at least 20 years ago.

The sad part about 31st Street, is that none of the residential or commercial properties between Ditmars and 20th Avenue have to be seized and demolished. This is in marked contrast to what happened in Chicago with the CTA’s project to rebuild Clark Junction, which is where the Brown Line ‘L’ joins the Red and Purple lines between the Belmont and Addison stations. The City of Chicago/CTA needed to demolish properties to build the flyover that will allow northbound Brown Line trains to cross over Red and Purple, instead of in front of them like the current flat junction requires. (Broadway-Myrtle Junction, anyone?)

It could be today. I'm not personally against the N train connecting to LGA, but how would the folks on 31 St feel? Their lives would be disrupted from all of the construction work going on around them. The work will not be without any consequence to them. I say if the MTA thinks it can get the job done, then they should put forth a plan, seek funding, and go from there.

The problem with cries of NIMBY is that we're ALL inclined to think that way at one point or another. Why not run the subway to Bayside via Northern Blvd via a modern concrete platform (ala the Babylon Branch along Sunrise Highway)? Why not an overhead light rail system above the Whitestone Expressway / Cross Island Parkway serving the nearby communities? Both North Flushing, Whitestone, College Point, and Bayside have grown over the years. In 20 years or so, one won't even recognize how quaint these areas used to be. Should we build for future in these areas, too, or would homeowners say 'nay' to these ideas? Are they saying 'NIMBY', or are they simply trying to preserve a quality of life they have built for themselves over time. It's all a matter of perspective.

Edited by Uncle Floyd Fan
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18 hours ago, RR503 said:

Most other cities in the world and even in the US (a country that systematically empowers NIMBY voices) are building elevated lines left and right; it's a relatively NYC-specific phenomenon that they're seen as a political non-starter.

I don't really agree with this assertion. Where large elevated rail lines are being built in developed countries, they are largely in large rights-of-way already impacted by transportation infrastructure.

I don't recall what the preferred alternative was (if one was picked in the older studies) but any extension north or west of Astoria-Ditmars would be on a much narrower right of way than any modern elevated railway.

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I agree with the (N) and (W) extension. This AirTrain is just a waste of money, plain and simple.

Astoria could use the extra TPH.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Uncle Floyd Fan said:

It could be today. I'm not personally against the N train connecting to LGA, but how would the folks on 31 St feel? Their lives would be disrupted from all of the construction work going on around them. The work will not be without any consequence to them. I say if the MTA thinks it can get the job done, then they should put forth a plan, seek funding, and go from there.

The problem with cries of NIMBY is that we're ALL inclined to think that way at one point or another. Why not run the subway to Bayside via Northern Blvd via a modern concrete platform (ala the Babylon Branch along Sunrise Highway)? Why not an overhead light rail system above the Whitestone Expressway / Cross Island Parkway serving the nearby communities? Both North Flushing, Whitestone, College Point, and Bayside have grown over the years. In 20 years or so, one won't even recognize how quaint these areas used to be. Should we build for future in these areas, too, or would homeowners say 'nay' to these ideas? Are they saying 'NIMBY', or are they simply trying to preserve a quality of life they have built for themselves over time. It's all a matter of perspective.

How would they feel? I don’t really know. But that’s why we really need to take another look at a (W) extension. With community outreach, like they did with the 2nd Avenue subway. And believe me, there was plenty of disruption there too - far more businesses and residents there than on 31st Street. There certainly were people who were opposed to building SAS and they threatened lawsuits against the MTA, City and State. Should we have gave in and canceled SAS entirely? Of course not, and now we’re all griping about how it doesn’t have enough service and how the (N) should join the (Q) on 2nd Avenue.

I too live in Northeast Queens, specifically Whitestone. I’m not within walking distance of the LIRR. I like how you mention extending the subway to Bayside or doing light rail via the Whitestone Expressway and Cross Island Parkway. I would gladly welcome both with open arms! In fact, given how wide Northern Blvd is, I think a concrete el structure like the rebuilt Market-Frankford El in Philadelphia would be the perfect model for Northern. Have a median that holds the concrete pillars. Maybe it would calm the heavy car traffic down somewhat. Much of Northern is commercial, though the section between Utopia Parkway and the LIRR Broadway Station is predominantly residential, and there’s also midrise apartment houses west of Crocheron Avenue. But I still think it’s possible. Getting a bit closer to home, I’d certainly be happy with a light rail or subway line that replicates most of the path of the long-gone LIRR Whitestone Branch.

Edited by T to Dyre Avenue
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On 7/2/2019 at 8:31 PM, NoHacksJustKhaks said:

@Uncle Floyd Fan Agreed, the overruns continually displayed on all levels of government here only tend to sink this project further into the rabbit hole and, overall, work against it's completion. By NY standards, this has already gotten really bad...  

 

Plus, those costs don't include finding a property to replace Casey Stengel Depot, or adding LIRR service.

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This is insanity. It will take longer than the Q70. If Prince Andr*w really was interested in speeding up the trip to LGA he would make improvements to the existing transit options.

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On 7/2/2019 at 7:15 PM, Wallyhorse said:

Showing all Cuomo seems to care about are:

Himself

His Donors.

As for the extension of the Astoria line, you probably still have some "old guard" types (or equally as important, their heirs) who likely are concerned even a modern El would result in property values declining, still thinking everyone is like them and that no one will buy (especially children who plan to sell such as soon as their parents die off, looking to reel in huge money for themselves).  

Cuomo and DeBla**hole only cares about their own interest not People's Interest. I Would Prefer Molinaro or Nixon as Governor, Also I Would Prefer Eric Ulrich as Public Advocate.

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