4 line change in Bronx

[T to Dyre Avenue]

16 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

No it isn't, the is over capacity in the Bronx during the rush hour which is why an express is needed! Woodlawn-->Moshulu-->Burnside-->149th St-->125th St is a perfect express.

A full-blown  express along the lines of the  services would result in a reduction of service at the skipped stops. And the skipped stops are very well-used. An express would skip major transfer points like Bedford, Kingsbridge, Fordham and 161st. And you'd have to reduce  service to fit a Bronx express , because there isn't enough capacity to handle ,  and  service. It wouldn't be a perfect express at all. Far from it!

Edited December 27, 2019 by T to Dyre Avenue

[Via Garibaldi 8]

12 minutes ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

A full-blown  express along the lines of the  services would result in a reduction of service at the skipped stops. And the skipped stops are very well-used. An express would skip major transfer points like Bedford, Kingsbridge, Fordham and 161st. And you'd have to reduce  service to fit a Bronx express , because there isn't enough capacity to handle ,  and  service. It wouldn't be a perfect express at all. Far from it!

As I said earlier, which  stops in the Bronx aren't "major" ones? They all are... Doesn't mean that faster service isn't needed. It takes FOREVER from Woodlawn or Mosholu Parkway down to just 125th.

[Lex]

37 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

As I said earlier, which  stops in the Bronx aren't "major" ones? They all are... Doesn't mean that faster service isn't needed. It takes FOREVER from Woodlawn or Mosholu Parkway down to just 125th.

If we were to define "major" as >2 million, then the only ones that wouldn't qualify are Mount Eden Avenue, 176th Street, 183rd Street, and Bedford Park Boulevard.

Even based solely on that, there's nowhere near enough merit to try yet another express pilot.

[Union Tpke]

58 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

As I said earlier, which  stops in the Bronx aren't "major" ones? They all are... Doesn't mean that faster service isn't needed. It takes FOREVER from Woodlawn or Mosholu Parkway down to just 125th.

That is why the LIRR has its stupid zone express service pattern on the Babylon Branch. All of them have essentially equal ridership. It would be better served with all-local service and schedules with reduced padding and greater acceleration rates.

Edited December 27, 2019 by Union Tpke

[Union Tpke]

What's next, a non-stop  going Dyre-->E 180-->3/149-->149-GC-->125?

[Jemorie]

2 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

It takes FOREVER from Woodlawn or Mosholu Parkway down to just 125th.

Doesn't mean we should be skipping all of the stops between those two northern stations and 125th. And for your information, the  (without delays) only takes about 21 minutes or so to get from Woodlawn to 125th Street before it goes express from there.

Dream on.

Edited December 27, 2019 by Jemorie

[Union Tpke]

17 minutes ago, Jemorie said:

Doesn't mean we should be skipping all of the stops between those two northern stations and 125th. And for your information, the  (without delays) only takes about 21 minutes or so to get from Woodlawn to 125th Street before it goes express from there.

Dream on.

The express that would solve his problems is a 1 express, skipping all stops between 137th and 96th. I would rebuild 137th as a 3-track, 2 island platform station to do so. There is capacity to do this as well.

[Jemorie]

31 minutes ago, Union Tpke said:

The express that would solve his problems is a 1 express, skipping all stops between 137th and 96th. I would rebuild 137th as a 3-track, 2 island platform station to do so. There is capacity to do this as well.

Ok but that is a whole another topic for another time/thread.

[Lawrence St]

@Via Garibaldi 8 is right. The takes EXTREMELY long to go from Woodlawn to 125th St, and I understand that there are major stops, but a would be extremely beneficial to a lot of customers if MTA were to try another pilot. And don't say it skips a lot of stops and that's why it cant be done, the skips a lot of major stops and is still used.

[Lex]

36 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

And don't say it skips a lot of stops and that's why it cant be done, the skips a lot of major stops and is still used.

That's an awful comparison. The  still makes most stops in Brooklyn, and there's only two per direction.

36 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

@Via Garibaldi 8 is right. The takes EXTREMELY long to go from Woodlawn to 125th St, and I understand that there are major stops, but a would be extremely beneficial to a lot of customers if MTA were to try another pilot.

There's another issue that would need to be addressed (which was brought up earlier), and that's the connection between Jerome Avenue and White Plains Road. At present, peak  service is basically matched by peak  service (say, a 14/14 split). AM  trains spend loads of time between 149th Street and 125th Street because the MTA doesn't want them merging north of 138th Street during that time, so they perform some ridiculously slow moves that only serve to inflate the amount of time spent on the one section. While this could reduce the number of trains switching to the middle track, it won't eliminate this issue, nor will it address the merge south of 138th Street.

TL;DR: No  will be able to avoid being hampered on the south end.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

2 hours ago, Jemorie said:

Doesn't mean we should be skipping all of the stops between those two northern stations and 125th. And for your information, the  (without delays) only takes about 21 minutes or so to get from Woodlawn to 125th Street before it goes express from there.

Dream on.

No it doesn't. I've used it so I know... Additionally, that isn't the only part of peoples' commutes, so a true express would be great.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

16 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

@Via Garibaldi 8 is right. The takes EXTREMELY long to go from Woodlawn to 125th St, and I understand that there are major stops, but a would be extremely beneficial to a lot of customers if MTA were to try another pilot. And don't say it skips a lot of stops and that's why it cant be done, the skips a lot of major stops and is still used.

But there are only two  express trains in the morning and two in the evening. Yes, they’re used, but only by the people lucky enough to catch them. Wasn’t that the same sort of thing they did with the  express trial runs? If not, what was so different about them? If we’re talking just two  trains each morning and evening rush period like the current , then maybe that’s worth considering, though I still have my reservations about how long the  is going to be around. 

4 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

As I said earlier, which  stops in the Bronx aren't "major" ones? They all are... Doesn't mean that faster service isn't needed. It takes FOREVER from Woodlawn or Mosholu Parkway down to just 125th.

Can the Lexington Ave express tracks handle the a full-blown express  service? Like I mentioned in response to @Lawrence St, if it’s just a couple peak-direction trains each morning and evening, that may be feasible. But like the , it may not be able to get any better than that.

Would a skip-stop service be feasible? I know that’s been mentioned in past discussions about the  express.

3 hours ago, Union Tpke said:

That is why the LIRR has its stupid zone express service pattern on the Babylon Branch. All of them have essentially equal ridership. It would be better served with all-local service and schedules with reduced padding and greater acceleration rates.

I actually viewed the Babylon Branch timetable online. Wow, that thing is quite confusing if you don’t ride the Babylon at least a semi-regularly. 

[RR503]

37 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

No it doesn't. I've used it so I know... Additionally, that isn't the only part of peoples' commutes, so a true express would be great.

It's more like 30mins from Mosholu to 125 during the peak. (Both below charts generated using realtime data, so all runtimes are real trains)

...but the area in which trains are losing the most time rel. to the baseline midday runtime is the 161-125, ie the portion of the route where express service will help the least. 80/20 rule would suggest better operating the merge there, better controlling dwell times and adjusting speed restrictions esp. now that that area is in the queue for CBTC is the best way to improve Jerome rider experience. 

 

 

Edited December 27, 2019 by RR503

[Lawrence St]

If it's two or three trips, it could be done. You can squeeze, at most, three trips in the AM & PM.

28 minutes ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

But there are only two  express trains in the morning and two in the evening. Yes, they’re used, but only by the people lucky enough to catch them. Wasn’t that the same sort of thing they did with the  express trial runs? If not, what was so different about them? If we’re talking just two  trains each morning and evening rush period like the current , then maybe that’s worth considering, though I still have my reservations about how long the  is going to be around. 

Can the Lexington Ave express tracks handle the a full-blown express  service? Like I mentioned in response to @Lawrence St, if it’s just a couple peak-direction trains each morning and evening, that may be feasible. But like the , it may not be able to get any better than that.

Would a skip-stop service be feasible? I know that’s been mentioned in past discussions about the  express.

I actually viewed the Babylon Branch timetable online. Wow, that thing is quite confusing if you don’t ride the Babylon at least a semi-regularly. 

I'd rather skip-stop restored on the since that has no way to have an express setup what's so ever. And I've looked at the times, if the is timed right, you can bypass the merge with zero delay what's so ever.

[Jemorie]

1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Additionally, that isn't the only part of peoples' commutes, so a true express would be great.

No duh. The point is that, the fact you agree with a proposal to have a “true” express  along the Jerome Avenue Line at the expense of cutting half of the service to the local stations that benefit the all local service the most is a big no-no. Especially Bedford Park, Fordham, Yankee Stadium, etc. You want to scheduled at least two trains (like what they’re currently doing with the express  in Brooklyn) that make express stops from Woodlawn to Burnside Avenue to 149th to 125th, that’s fine and great. Everything else stays how it was. And if the test fails again, well...though luck lol.

Edited December 27, 2019 by Jemorie

[RR503]

The other issue here that I noted before is that running an express from Burnside to 149 would mean trains scheduled on a 4 minute headway from Burnside would end up at 149 almost at the exact same time, mucking up the merge between each other/them with the . You could schedule unevenly in the north, but then one will be riding the other’s tail through a meh signal system down from Woodlawn, or extend the express segment further north but then risk making the express catchment exceedingly small. 

[P3F]

9 hours ago, Union Tpke said:

What's next, a non-stop  going Dyre-->E 180-->3/149-->149-GC-->125?

You missed Pelham Parkway.

Edited December 28, 2019 by P3F

[Lawrence St]

1 hour ago, P3F said:

You missed Pelham Parkway.

You can't stop at Pelham Pkwy, what ever that reason is.

[Deucey]

On 12/26/2019 at 4:43 PM, paulrivera said:

The express maintains usefulness because after Parkchester they continue to Pelham Bay.

So  trains don’t go back to Bk Bridge after arriving at Parkchester?

On that note, for AM express, do they originate at Parkchester or at Pelham Bay?

[Lex]

10 minutes ago, Deucey said:

So  trains don’t go back to Bk Bridge after arriving at Parkchester?

On that note, for AM express, do they originate at Parkchester or at Pelham Bay?

Nope.

Locals start at Parkchester, whereas expresses run local to Parkchester.

[Jemorie]

10 minutes ago, Deucey said:

So  trains don’t go back to Bk Bridge after arriving at Parkchester?

On that note, for AM express, do they originate at Parkchester or at Pelham Bay?

 trains originate and terminate at Parkchester, and uses the relay north of said station;  trains (peak direction only) make local stops north of Parkchester and express stops south of Parkchester; both  and  are fully local in Manhattan;  trains become  trains in the reverse peak.

[Deucey]

On 12/26/2019 at 7:01 PM, I Run Trains said:

id give out my run number and schedule and invite some of y'all so say the things y'all say on here to my face, but...........

You could DM it to me, but I just wanna say “Sup bruh” and shoot the friendly shit between USQ and Bowling Green on my way back to Shaolin.

[Deucey]

48 minutes ago, Jemorie said:

 trains originate and terminate at Parkchester, and uses the relay north of said station;  trains (peak direction only) make local stops north of Parkchester and express stops south of Parkchester; both  and  are fully local in Manhattan;  trains become  trains in the reverse peak.

So  has to cross into the path of to reach the layover track section. Are these running at 8 minute headways during peak to prevent delays?

Also, could the general Lex delays be alleviated if  and  ran express on Lex and  ran local to BB?

[paulrivera]

2 hours ago, Deucey said:

So  has to cross into the path of to reach the layover track section. Are these running at 8 minute headways during peak to prevent delays?

Also, could the general Lex delays be alleviated if  and  ran express on Lex and  ran local to BB?

You’d be adding a new choke point at 125 (in both directions) for no net gain.

Also, you’d need to split the  in Manhattan because 1. The  can not run local by itself and 2. Theres no capacity for both  branches to “share a track” (as the  would say) with any other line, local or express.

[Jemorie]

7 hours ago, Deucey said:

So  has to cross into the path of to reach the layover track section. Are these running at 8 minute headways during peak to prevent delays?

Also, could the general Lex delays be alleviated if  and  ran express on Lex and  ran local to BB?

It’s suppose to be 4 minutes on both  and  each for a combined 2 minute headway, from when I last checked the official printed schedule/Trip Planner on the ’s website. Though from what I heard and read up, the  recently reduced both  and  just a bit ever since SAS open with its three stops...

No. And why? You realize the Lex Av express tracks feed onto the Jerome Av line and the Eastern Pkwy express tracks...and the Lex Av local tracks feed onto the Pelham line...your suggestion would just create a choke point with the crossovers at 125-Lex, as @paulrivera pointed out.

Edited December 28, 2019 by Jemorie