DeCamp ending commuter service effective April 7th

[JAzumah]

7 hours ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

Doesn't it, though? Don't the private companies take state money for commuter runs but divert some drivers and buses to charters?

NJT has been cracking down on missed commuter runs due to charter work with their buses. As long as you cover your commuters, they aren't going to say much about ancillary charter work. FTA hates it, though. Then again, you don't want the drivers having to switch buses every time a charter comes in.

[Tranzitfan81]

On 3/21/2023 at 4:43 PM, 553 Bridgeton said:

Currently the 18000s at EHT are getting swapped with newton Av 19000s going to EHT. 

I noticed on MyBus Now a few 19000s down the Shore.  Turnersville has a couple of them too that have been there for a while (19136 and 19143).

Edited March 24, 2023 by Tranzitfan81

[checkmatechamp13]

Bloomfield Township added a shuttle effective April 10th to connect northern Bloomfield (e.g. Brookdale section) to the Allwood Park & Ride for the 192/199.

[RailBus63]

20 hours ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

Doesn't it, though? Don't the private companies take state money for commuter runs but divert some drivers and buses to charters?

Doesn't NJT provide buses to the privates but no subsidy?  As the articles have noted, De Camp is upset that NJT got COVID money from the Feds but refused to share with the private operators. 

[JLiu15]

On 3/22/2023 at 10:37 PM, GojiMet86 said:

50 buses are more than enough to replace the 28~30 D4000s that are left. Although I do wonder if NJT is thinking of taking over the DeCamp lines, maybe at reduced service. In that case, they would still need some buses.

If NJT takes over the DeCamp lines they could operate out of Wayne; 30 buses for Oradell and 20 buses for Wayne should be enough.

[JAzumah]

10 hours ago, JLiu15 said:

If NJT takes over the DeCamp lines they could operate out of Wayne; 30 buses for Oradell and 20 buses for Wayne should be enough.

It is cheaper for NJT to pay DeCamp to run their lines.

[checkmatechamp13]

For the #192/199, the low-hanging fruit is to remove those (still in place) boarding restrictions in place in Lyndhurst/Nutley that were specifically in place to prevent the NJT routes from competing with the #32. So that means adding a stop at River Road & Park Avenue, and having the #192/199 take the #32 route through Lyndhurst, making all local stops...riders along Riverside Drive can either walk to the rerouted #192/199, or walk to/from Rutherford Avenue/Marginal Road to catch the #191/195. (It seems like that the #192/199 specifically avoids the busiest parts of Lyndhurst in order to allow DeCamp to be the primary carrier serving it). The centralizing of the route in Lyndhurst will also provide easier access for anybody seeking to take the train to Hoboken (and on the days the Lincoln Tunnel is severely delayed, riders have a chance to take the train to Secaucus and transfer to a NY Penn train).

On the Nutley side, I think the #192 should run up Washington Avenue rather than River Road (most of those condo complexes have a back entrance to Washington Avenue anyway, and in any case, it's less than a quarter mile walk for those who live along River Road). The 199 should run down Centre Street to provide more coverage in the old #32 service area in Nutley (especially given that under the NewBus Newark plan, both branches of the #13 would be eliminated north of Big Tree Garage, so they shouldn't be left with no east-west service whatsoever).

Edited March 27, 2023 by checkmatechamp13

[Lawrence St]

I think a law should be placed into effect that any commuter bus line not operated by NJT is to have a clause where if the bus company decides to stop running service that the county would provide additional resources to NJT to “take over” said lines to prevent the loss of ridership and network connectivity.

[46Dover]

9 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

For the #192/199, the low-hanging fruit is to remove those (still in place) boarding restrictions in place in Lyndhurst/Nutley that were specifically in place to prevent the NJT routes from competing with the #32.

I think that’s already been thrown out the window, I’ve been picking up and dropping off along that stretch since I got there in addition to the occasional cross honoring of DeCamp tickets.  Now more so than ever now that said company (serving New York) will be out soon.

 

An aside to all this:  As much as this hurts DeCamp, drivers and riders alike, they got a bit of a heads up unlike the fiasco at Bieber where people went to ride only to find out the day of that there is no more bus service. 

[JAzumah]

2 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

I think a law should be placed into effect that any commuter bus line not operated by NJT is to have a clause where if the bus company decides to stop running service that the county would provide additional resources to NJT to “take over” said lines to prevent the loss of ridership and network connectivity.

I would not support such a law.

Populations shift and move and so should bus service. Otherwise, we would always be forced to keep yesterday's bus service instead of running today's bus service.

[Lawrence St]

40 minutes ago, JAzumah said:

I would not support such a law.

Populations shift and move and so should bus service. Otherwise, we would always be forced to keep yesterday's bus service instead of running today's bus service.

Obviously I was talking about if a company cannot sustain costs to keep running a bus line like what’s happening here.

[JAzumah]

3 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Obviously I was talking about if a company cannot sustain costs to keep running a bus line like what’s happening here.

Part of my recommendation to NJT was that they continue to subsidize some of this service while I would take over a portion. It is cheaper for NJT to subsidize them than to run it themselves. It is true in almost any current case. 

Having said that, I don't think it should be a law at all. I think it should be based on NJT's discretion. Laws lead to the NYC scenario, which is a much more complicated place to provide bus service than NJ.

[IAlam]

On 3/23/2023 at 1:24 PM, Cait Sith said:

Funny enough, Decamp used those buses on charters heavily...used to see them in Queens often.

Academy uses their buses often for charters and railroad shuttles in Long Island. Saddle River(before they got shitcanned by NJT for their nonsense) used those 17000s and 18000s on charters regularly. Coach USA used theirs mostly on LIRR/MNRR shuttles.

What NJT actually has a problem with is the carriers using buses outside of the territories they operate in or around. Saddle River got a lot of flack for running the state-owned buses on Greyhound routes when Greyhound was short on buses and personnel a few years back. One of them made it all the way to Washington DC, and folks at NJT were not happy.

It makes me wonder why NJT provides private companies with buses with the operators' brand for commuter services. When you look elsewhere in NY and other states, private operators operate the bus with the agency brand and not the operator's brand. 

If you see a Saddle River bus in DC it won't look too out of place but an NJT-branded bus operated by Saddle River would. It would discourage private operators from blatantly miss using resources, I could still see things like rail shuttles and other emergency work being fine.

Edited March 28, 2023 by IAlam

[JAzumah]

4 hours ago, IAlam said:

It makes me wonder why NJT provides private companies with buses with the operators' brand for commuter services. When you look elsewhere in NY and other states, private operators operate the bus with the agency brand and not the operator's brand.

The routes belong to the private operators.
 

4 hours ago, IAlam said:

If you see a Saddle River bus in DC it won't look too out of place but an NJT-branded bus operated by Saddle River would. It would discourage private operators from blatantly miss using resources, I could still see things like rail shuttles and other emergency work being fine.

NJT understands that the charter work is subsidizing the commuter routes. You can go to the NTD profiles yourself for each of the NJ operators that receive buses from NJT and you can see how many of them make money on the commuter runs. As a standalone, it loses money in many places, but combined with charter work, it is a decent business. The FTA is the bigger problem as they don't want publicly funded equipment doing charter work unless no alternative is available. The NJ scenario is unique as giving private operators buses saves the public sector money.

[JAzumah]

https://baristanet.com/2023/03/boxcar-announces-to-decamp-riders-launch-of-essex-express-starting-april-10/

[JAzumah]

https://www.nj.com/news/2023/03/2-plans-proposed-to-help-riders-after-private-bus-company-ends-commuter-service.html

"NJ Transit will extend four existing Essex County bus routes to cover DeCamp bus routes.

The agency will extend the 191, 192,195 and 199 routes in Essex county starting April 10, said Michael Kilcoyne, NJ Transit vice president of surface operations. That emergency change will accommodate 85% of DeCamps riders and operate Monday to Friday during morning and afternoon rush hours, he said.

The extended routes will carry a D suffix for DeCamp. The 191D will substitute for DeCamp Route 66 in West Orange and Montclair. The 192D and 195D will service Route 33 commuters in West Caldwell, Caldwell and Verona. The 199D will serve Route 44 riders in Newark, Belleville North Arlington and Lyndhurst."

[JAzumah]

NJT DeCamp Emergency Service Plan Map

[46Dover]

4 hours ago, JAzumah said:

NJT DeCamp Emergency Service Plan Map

Well we just had our pick so I’d like to see how this shakes out 

[Lawrence St]

9 hours ago, JAzumah said:

https://www.nj.com/news/2023/03/2-plans-proposed-to-help-riders-after-private-bus-company-ends-commuter-service.html

"NJ Transit will extend four existing Essex County bus routes to cover DeCamp bus routes.

The agency will extend the 191, 192,195 and 199 routes in Essex county starting April 10, said Michael Kilcoyne, NJ Transit vice president of surface operations. That emergency change will accommodate 85% of DeCamps riders and operate Monday to Friday during morning and afternoon rush hours, he said.

The extended routes will carry a D suffix for DeCamp. The 191D will substitute for DeCamp Route 66 in West Orange and Montclair. The 192D and 195D will service Route 33 commuters in West Caldwell, Caldwell and Verona. The 199D will serve Route 44 riders in Newark, Belleville North Arlington and Lyndhurst."

Surely there has to be a better way to do this then extend routes that are already twice as long.

[checkmatechamp13]

1 hour ago, Lawrence St said:

Surely there has to be a better way to do this then extend routes that are already twice as long.

Twice as long as what?

In any case, these aren't extensions. These are branches.

All I can really say regarding the actual routes is that it's better than nothing. They really emphasized the "one former DeCamp route per town" thinking. The #195D covers Verona/Caldwell/West Caldwell, the #191D covers Montclair (and barely enters West Orange), the #192D covers Bloomfield, and the #199D covers Lyndhurst, North Arlington, Belleville, and Newark. Or looking at it the other way, the #191D is the old DeCamp #66 (truncated to West Orange), the #199D is the old #44 (truncated to Forest Hill), and the #192D and #195D split up the old #33.

For DeCamp #66 riders in Roseland/Essex Fells and most of West Orange, they'll have to make their way to the #71 bus (or the West Orange Jitney #6), and for riders along Heller Parkway/Franklin Avenue, they'll need to take the #27 to reach an alternate form of transportation (whether that's the #192D, #199D, or commuter rail at Newark Broad Street). DeCamp #99 riders in Kearny & Harrison are pretty much advised to take the #232 EZ Ride shuttle over to Harrison for the PATH (or make their way up to the #199D). And of course, all off-peak riders will have to pretty much take local buses to nearby train or interstate bus routes.

[JAzumah]

1 hour ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

DeCamp #99 riders in Kearny & Harrison are pretty much advised to take the #232 EZ Ride shuttle over to Harrison for the PATH (or make their way up to the #199D).

Let's see what happens there.

[553 Bridgeton]

https://www.njtransit.com/decamp
Schedules are out for 191D 192D 195D 199D all leaving from gate 208 on the 4th floor.

These new schedules and lines won’t be on njt MyBus app until late may.

 

Oradell and Westwood will be operating these legs.

[46Dover]

17 minutes ago, 553 Bridgeton said:

https://www.njtransit.com/decamp
Schedules are out for 191D 192D 195D 199D all leaving from gate 208 on the 4th floor.

These new schedules and lines won’t be on njt MyBus app until late may.

 

Oradell and Westwood will be operating these legs.

I just saw that.  Westwood/Oradell, huh?

[willypguy]

15 hours ago, 553 Bridgeton said:

https://www.njtransit.com/decamp
Schedules are out for 191D 192D 195D 199D all leaving from gate 208 on the 4th floor.

These new schedules and lines won’t be on njt MyBus app until late may.

 

Oradell and Westwood will be operating these legs.

NJ Transit does things that just do not make sense. 

They need to take the old Market St lines (145/148/160/164) out of Wayne, and give these to Oradell and Westwood. Then give the Essex County legs to Wayne.

I would not want to be that poor driver who has to deadhead from Heller Parkway in Newark to Westwood Garage at the end of the day after dealing with whatever traffic there was coming out of NY. Or, West Caldwell to Westwood. That’s a hike. 
 

Does anyone know if these new Essex County legs are going to be closed door? Or open door? 

[553 Bridgeton]

22071 is currently in West Caldwell and 22070 south into orange on the parkway.