Man shot and killed aboard subway train in Brooklyn

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

From ABC7

CROWN HEIGHTS, Brooklyn (WABC) -- A man was fatally shot inside a moving subway train in Brooklyn.

Police say the 34-year-old was shot in the back and shoulder on Sunday just before 8:30 p.m. while he was on a Manhattan-bound 3 train approaching the Franklin Ave-Medgar Evers College Stop at Franklin Avenue and Eastern Parkway.

The victim was taken to Kings County Hospital where he was pronounced dead.

The suspect fled the scene. Police do not have a description of him at this time.

"Everywhere you go some random terrible thing. We just have to learn to live with it, Would be nice if we had better gun control but that's going to take big shift in politics and that's not about to happen," said Professor Jeff Spinner-Halevim.

The southbound 3 train was being held Sunday night at the Franklin Ave. stop in Crown Heights.

No arrests have been made and the investigation is ongoing.

[CenSin]

Same headline, different day:

• https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/brooklyn-subway-shooting-nyc-crime-afternoon-rush-hour-hoyt-schermerhorn/5226381/
• https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/brooklyn-s-district-attorney-will-not-pursue-charges-against-man-in-fatal-new-york-city-subway-shooting-citing-self-defense/ar-BB1jYN69

tl;dr: man got shot with his own gun after threatening another on train

[MisterSG1]

So let me get this straight, someone fired a GUN on a crowded subway train and is not facing charges, this isn’t a rural area, this is the biggest city in the entire US.

Once the gun was wrestled away, he should have stopped, but he shot anyways not giving a care in the world for any of the subway passengers who could have been hurt in this crossfire.

I thought New York was better than this and wasn’t a stand your ground state.

Edited March 16 by MisterSG1

[Kamen Rider]

not a stand your ground state, but one where self-defense is an accepted defense. 

[Chris89292]

1 hour ago, MisterSG1 said:

So let me get this straight, someone fired a GUN on a crowded subway train and is not facing charges, this isn’t a rural area, this is the biggest city in the entire US.

Once the gun was wrestled away, he should have stopped, but he shot anyways not giving a care in the world for any of the subway passengers who could have been hurt in this crossfire.

I thought New York was better than this and wasn’t a stand your ground state.

Self defense isn’t a crime, pretty sure you would’ve done the same thing in this situation, this is why this city is falling apart

[MisterSG1]

19 minutes ago, Chris89292 said:

Self defense isn’t a crime, pretty sure you would’ve done the same thing in this situation, this is why this city is falling apart

His life was threatened, but that was OVER when he got a hold of the gun. Firing the gun, heck even pointing the gun at him at that point is usually a crime.

That is the key in this, firing the gun in a crowded subway train is reckless.

How would this have ended if a bystander was hit by the bullet, as I said the subway is a crowded place.

[Kamen Rider]

Considering the aggressor also had a bladed object of some kind, he was not out of the woods completely.

also, consider this…

 

if he didn’t fire, what was the possibility of the aggressor taking the gun back and using it and not just on his target..?

that is part of the legal considerations they make.

plus, this case would need to go before a grand jury to actually indict and if they attempted to charge the shooter, I think a lot of people might let him off the hook.

[RTOMan]

9 hours ago, MisterSG1 said:

His life was threatened, but that was OVER when he got a hold of the gun. Firing the gun, heck even pointing the gun at him at that point is usually a crime.

That is the key in this, firing the gun in a crowded subway train is reckless.

How would this have ended if a bystander was hit by the bullet, as I said the subway is a crowded place.

Easy to "quarterback" on a subject like this since I'm guessing you never been in this situation..

Ever....

On and BTW the person was a convicted felon with a rap sheet..

The streets play rough and you never ever ever pull out a gun and "walk" towards someone either you handle your business from a distance or you dont.

He was prob used to acting that way and it cost him he effed around and found out.

Oh and BTW they aren't pressing charges against him...

Edited March 16 by RTOMan

[RTOMan]

7 hours ago, Kamen Rider said:

Considering the aggressor also had a bladed object of some kind, he was not out of the woods completely.

also, consider this…

 

if he didn’t fire, what was the possibility of the aggressor taking the gun back and using it and not just on his target..?

that is part of the legal considerations they make.

plus, this case would need to go before a grand jury to actually indict and if they attempted to charge the shooter, I think a lot of people might let him off the hook.

They aren't pressing charges against him.

[Lawrence St]

Can we talk about the safety standpoint of this for a second?

I watched both POV videos, and again the R46’s continue to be an issue that customers can not flee a car with a problem in situations like this. I think a later photo I saw one car with the blue light on indicating the end door was unlocked. Especially if your several cars away from the conductor, how are any of them suppose to know there’s an emergency to unlock the end doors?

[RTOMan]

5 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Can we talk about the safety standpoint of this for a second?

I watched both POV videos, and again the R46’s continue to be an issue that customers can not flee a car with a problem in situations like this. I think a later photo I saw one car with the blue light on indicating the end door was unlocked. Especially if your several cars away from the conductor, how are any of them suppose to know there’s an emergency to unlock the end doors?

Not all the times the Blue light is on the end door is unlocked that i can tell you.

You want more kids surfing on top of 75 foot trains?

The turn radius around curves is the reason Why they keep them locked.

That why someone walking between them wont get hurt and the first thing the lawsuit will say is "Oh why did they leave them unlocked?"

If you got a better idea hey throw it out there to them.

[Lawrence St]

3 hours ago, RTOMan said:

Not all the times the Blue light is on the end door is unlocked that i can tell you.

You want more kids surfing on top of 75 foot trains?

The turn radius around curves is the reason Why they keep them locked.

That why someone walking between them wont get hurt and the first thing the lawsuit will say is "Oh why did they leave them unlocked?"

If you got a better idea hey throw it out there to them.

Open up the covers to the end door switch in each car and put an emergency box over it saying USE ONLY IN CASE OF EMERGENCY.

[MisterSG1]

16 hours ago, RTOMan said:

Easy to "quarterback" on a subject like this since I'm guessing you never been in this situation..

Ever....

On and BTW the person was a convicted felon with a rap sheet..

The streets play rough and you never ever ever pull out a gun and "walk" towards someone either you handle your business from a distance or you dont.

He was prob used to acting that way and it cost him he effed around and found out.

Oh and BTW they aren't pressing charges against him...

No, I’ve never been in this situation because frankly, these things just don’t happen where I’m from.

Even Ronald Reagan when he was governor of California had this to say about guns in cities,

“There is absolutely no reason why out on the street today a civilian should be carrying a loaded weapon."

Really, what purpose does a loaded gun serve in a city, especially a city like New York City that is actually active and people take public transit.

Let me ask this, should everyone on that subway train have had a gun? Could you imagine how many potential casualties there would be of people caught in the crossfire?

Even that quote there and situation doesn’t undermine the concept of Castle Doctrine, what happened on that train is very much a stand your ground situation in the end.

[Kamen Rider]

8 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Open up the covers to the end door switch in each car and put an emergency box over it saying USE ONLY IN CASE OF EMERGENCY.

more than any other issue with that suggestion... no one is going to use that "just" for emergencies. The emergency gates at stations are just for emergency use and people plow right through them to exit all the time because they're lazy. 

[RTOMan]

7 hours ago, MisterSG1 said:

No, I’ve never been in this situation because frankly, these things just don’t happen where I’m from.

Even Ronald Reagan when he was governor of California had this to say about guns in cities,

“There is absolutely no reason why out on the street today a civilian should be carrying a loaded weapon."

Really, what purpose does a loaded gun serve in a city, especially a city like New York City that is actually active and people take public transit.

Let me ask this, should everyone on that subway train have had a gun? Could you imagine how many potential casualties there would be of people caught in the crossfire?

Even that quote there and situation doesn’t undermine the concept of Castle Doctrine, what happened on that train is very much a stand your ground situation in the end.

Your first response was all i needed to see yet ill say this.

I'm not disputing that at all where did i say its ok to have a loaded gun on the subway?

I'm just saying  how things are in these streets you aren't from them so you wont and will never understand so yes its foreign to you i can dig it.

That city got issues and I'm not going politics here this is a train forum.

I could cares less what Regan thinks or says hes irrelevant to this incident.

 

Edited March 17 by RTOMan

[RTOMan]

14 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Open up the covers to the end door switch in each car and put an emergency box over it saying USE ONLY IN CASE OF EMERGENCY.

How many times can I say No that wont work to that answer?

Here's the perfect reply..

 Signs all over saying "Do not pull cord unless its an emergency"..

They pull they cord when there isn't one..

ALL the time...

[46Dover]

Wasn't it announced that National Guard/State Police would be on the subways?

[4 via Mosholu]

4 hours ago, 46Dover said:

Wasn't it announced that National Guard/State Police would be on the subways?

Yes, it was. They just simply sent them to the major transit hubs like 42 St-Grand Central and 42 St-Times Square. What they should have done was to send them down to the areas where crime is likely to spiral out of control like 149-3, 170, 173 (present day Mount Eden), Parsons/Archer, and Continental.

[Chris89292]

So is the R46 set that was involved in this situation back in service or is it taken out of service for investigation?

[Kamen Rider]

1 hour ago, 4 via Mosholu said:

What they should have done was to send them down to the areas where crime is likely to spiral out of control like… Continental.

Tell me you’ve never been to Forest Hills without telling me you’ve never been to Forest Hills…

 

if anywhere needs help, it’s Bowery.

[4 via Mosholu]

10 minutes ago, Kamen Rider said:

Tell me you’ve never been to Forest Hills without telling me you’ve never been to Forest Hills…

 

if anywhere needs help, it’s Bowery.

To be honest and fair to you, I've been to Continental before. You may be right about it not needing any sort of National Guard assistance and about Bowery needing help as you mentioned, but I would say along that same vein that Woodlawn/Jerome would need help too.

[shiznit1987]

All this is just security theater until they overturn the bail laws. Who's gonna care about getting caught with a piece when they're out within 24 hrs. Waste of money. 

As for gun control, NYS has some of the toughest gun laws in the nation. Canada isn't shooting free either, Toronto has some rough pockets plus the TTC has had a recent crime wave. Britian now stops people for *knives* in the poor parts of London, Birmingham, etc. 

Unless you address a) drug addiction, b) forcing the mentally ill into treatment, no more coddling c) giving these teens/young men jobs d) fixing the schools and finally real consequences for serious crime, then nothing is going to change. 

 

 

[B35 via Church]

3 hours ago, shiznit1987 said:

All this is just security theater until they overturn the bail laws. Who's gonna care about getting caught with a piece when they're out within 24 hrs. Waste of money. 

As for gun control, NYS has some of the toughest gun laws in the nation. Canada isn't shooting free either, Toronto has some rough pockets plus the TTC has had a recent crime wave. Britian now stops people for *knives* in the poor parts of London, Birmingham, etc. 

Unless you address a) drug addiction, b) forcing the mentally ill into treatment, no more coddling c) giving these teens/young men jobs d) fixing the schools and finally real consequences for serious crime, then nothing is going to change.

Without going down the political rabbit hole, what we're seeing happen to this city is being incentivized - including the influx of illegal immigrants.... Welcome to the dark side of capitalism.

[MisterSG1]

3 hours ago, shiznit1987 said:

All this is just security theater until they overturn the bail laws. Who's gonna care about getting caught with a piece when they're out within 24 hrs. Waste of money. 

As for gun control, NYS has some of the toughest gun laws in the nation. Canada isn't shooting free either, Toronto has some rough pockets plus the TTC has had a recent crime wave. Britian now stops people for *knives* in the poor parts of London, Birmingham, etc. 

Unless you address a) drug addiction, b) forcing the mentally ill into treatment, no more coddling c) giving these teens/young men jobs d) fixing the schools and finally real consequences for serious crime, then nothing is going to change. 

 

 

Well, when one thinks of mass shootings in Canada, most can count on one hand ones that come to mind. Like the shooting at Polytechnique in Montreal back in 1989, or the Quebec Mosque shooting in 2017, or that one across Nova Scotia in 2020. Obviously this proves that gun control does in fact work.

So let's look at the situation in New York State. Even if guns were somehow banned in that state, that would mean absolutely nothing, because criminals could get guns from other states where it's easy to get a gun. There isn't any checkpoint upon entering New York State where a gun check is performed. So in reality, New York banning guns is as good as sitting in the old Non-Smoking Sections of restaurants, the smoke still gets over there anyways.

Therefore, there are two real ways to solve this, either allow everyone to carry guns in public, or somehow find a way nationwide to ban handguns, I know this would practically be impossible based on the SCOTUS understanding of the Second Amendment. Tell me this for the former, would any of you really be comfortable living basically in the Wild West in one of the most important cities in the world seeing everyday people without any kind of proper training having a handgun on them while you ride the subway? Adding a lot more guns to the equation allows for a much higher chance of deadly crime anywhere.

So now, if handguns were banned nationwide, this would make it basically extremely hard to get a hold of a handgun as you wouldn't be able to get them easily in the neighboring countries either.

As for what is happening in Toronto, I'm sure it's quite similar to the issues plaguing New York, but the difference here is the lack of deadly weapons easily allows for less dangerous crime. The dark side of capitalism is very much happening up here too.

[46Dover]

On 3/16/2024 at 2:11 PM, RTOMan said:

The turn radius around curves is the reason Why they keep them locked.

That why someone walking between them wont get hurt and the first thing the lawsuit will say is "Oh why did they leave them unlocked?"

Im immediately reminded of the  train (with R46s) and the  (with R68/68As) and those hellacious turns between Cortlandt St and Whitehall 😱.