MTA revises a few of the proposed bus cuts.

While I thank Zman for listing today 3/19/10, on the NYCT planned subway revised cuts, here we focus on the Buses cuts/adjustments that offically saves a few lines at least. The final and revised bus cuts that includes saving a few lines, i would like for us to comment on anything related to NYCT or Bus cuts guys. Lets keep this chat cool please ok. :cool: Thanks in Advance.

Among Buses the BXM7a(Pelham Bay/Bruckner line) will merge with the BXM7b(City Island)routes and be extended rush hours in peak direction only to/from City Island as the BXm7a. This should take place in June/July of this year and requires no public hearing since City Island residents still will have rush hour bus service to/from Midtown.

IMO this would be a good time to rename this line the BXM12.

Some highlights along the revised plans among NYCT buses. 1)The B4 will operate to/from Sheapshead Bay/Emmons Ave. rush hours only. 2)The BX8 will replace the BX14 in the Bronx's Country Club section but be re-routed to serve the Pelham Bay (6)station. 3)The BX18 and BX33 are saved but 24/7 BX33 service is gone. 4)m22 is also saved but operates appx. 6am-Midnight Weekdays and 7am-9pm weekends. 5)q42 becomes a rush hour only route. 6)The S66 will replace the S60 and be re-routed to serve Wagner College/St John's SI campus in Grymes Hill. 7)X1 peak hour service is maintained but during rush hours all X-1's start/end at 23nd and Broadway. For more please read the links.

And finally for LI Bus revised cuts, the N88(Jones Beach/Freeport summer bus special) and N26 are both saved but have service levels reduced.

NYCT final revised proposed Bus cuts. http://www.mta.info/news/pdf/NYCT_Summary_of_Revisions.pdf

Bus revised proposed cuts

http://www.mta.info/news/pdf/MTA%20Bus_Revised_Service_Changes.pdf

Long island Bus revised planned cuts

http://www.mta.info/news/pdf/LI%20Bus_Revised_Service_Changes.pdf

This is a disappointing list. Brooklyn is still getting sandbagged.

This is a disappointing list. Brooklyn is still getting sandbagged.

I hear(maybe someone can confirm) that Chairman Walder only attended the public hearings in the Bronx. So it should not be a surprise that several of the bronx bus routes on the doomesday list are saved or revised.:eek:

I hear(maybe someone can confirm) that Chairman Walder only attended the public hearings in the Bronx. So it should not be a surprise that several of the bronx bus routes on the doomesday list are saved or revised.:eek:

Well, that's ridiculous. Brooklyn is the most populous borough and I feel like we're getting hit the hardest by these cuts.

Good to hear the Bx18 is saved

What depot will the Bx8 be based out of when it replaces the Bx14

Split?

Surprised that Q79 peak service was not saved...

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

Good to hear the Bx18 is saved

 

 

 

What depot will the Bx8 be based out of when it replaces the Bx14

 

Split?

It ill stick with WF im sure!

And im glade the Bx18 ill stick. M18... what ever

Bx33 im happy for its stay on Weekends..

What im wondering is if the Bx8 would be a bit to long.. Maybe an LTD will do?

And i see the wlll become ORANGE ...

Even with these changes the t/a aint gonna close the gap...

Surprised that Q79 peak service was not saved...

Amtrak and others it's not over yet. Ch.2/CBS-TV and other sources recently stated that Gov. Paterson barring a bailout from Washington, D.C, is urging the Board and Walder to do a fare increase by September-October of this year at the lastest systemwide to maintain most of the current services.

My gut is that I think some of the cuts/service changes will occur even if a fare hike occurs by this fall. Stay Tuned.:confused:

It ill stick with WF im sure!

 

And im glade the Bx18 ill stick. M18... what ever

 

Bx33 im happy for its stay on Weekends..

 

What im wondering is if the Bx8 would be a bit to long.. Maybe an LTD will do?

 

And i see the wlll become ORANGE ...

 

Even with these changes the t/a aint gonna close the gap...

Off topic in reply to Mark. Not trying to sound rude but the creates limited stop service on a route only if the following. a)route is 5 miles or longer b)headways of at least 6 minutes or less. This was made clear about 4 years ago at a meeting to someone when then NYCT chief Lawerence Reuter explained it when i still lived in NYC.

So Mark the BX8 will not be getting a limited just more buses/service.

Well, that's ridiculous. Brooklyn is the most populous borough and I feel like we're getting hit the hardest by these cuts.

You are not imagining this. Brooklyn is being hardest hit. Before this recent announcement, Brooklyn bus cuts amounted to more than any of the other boroughs and was even higher than the subway cuts Citywide.

While the change to the B4 maintains subway access to Plumb Beach residents for part of the day, acccording to the MTA's own numbers it only maintains service for 500 of the over 2000 impacted riders. Not nearly good enough. Also, the route is being moved from Neptune Avenue to Avenue Z making it inaccessible to some current riders since it is too far to walk from Avenue Z to Neptune Avenue (almost a half mile). Although it is only two blocks to the B1, that means more walking at the other end of the trip since in Bensonhurst the routes are a half mile apart.

Isn't there a topic on this started by Zman also?

Isn't there a topic on this started by Zman also?

This one focuse on the revised bus cuts while Zman focuses on the subway.

Amtrak and others it's not over yet. Ch.2/CBS-TV and other sources recently stated that Gov. Paterson barring a bailout from Washington, D.C, is urging the Board and Walder to do a fare increase by September-October of this year at the lastest systemwide to maintain most of the current services.

 

My gut is that I think some of the cuts/service changes will occur even if a fare hike occurs by this fall. Stay Tuned.:confused:

Thank You Gov. Paterson for flushing New York down the drain.

Thank You Gov. Paterson for flushing New York down the drain.

Amen. This shows how little NYC gets in return for being the most profitable city in the state... by far. But we're getting low balled. NYC Secession from the state, anyone?

I've always been in favor of that idea. NYC can do better on its own. Not sure though if LI and parts of upstate [Westchester] should join as well, but they'll probably have to be a part of a larger state than just NYC alone.

Among Buses the BXM7a(Pelham Bay/Bruckner line) will merge with the BXM7b(City Island)routes and be extended rush hours in peak direction only to/from City Island as the BXm7a. This should take place in June/July of this year and requires no public hearing since City Island residents still will have rush hour bus service to/from Midtown.

IMO this would be a good time to rename this line the BXM12.

For what reason? The city island portion will only be an extension of the current 7a...

Some highlights along the revised plans among NYCT buses. 1)The B4 will operate to/from Sheapshead Bay/Emmons Ave. rush hours only. 2)The BX8 will replace the BX14 in the Bronx's Country Club section but be re-routed to serve the Pelham Bay station. 3)The BX18 and BX33 are saved but 24/7 BX33 service is gone. 4)m22 is also saved but operates appx. 6am-Midnight Weekdays and 7am-9pm weekends. 5)q42 becomes a rush hour only route. 6)The S66 will replace the S60 and be re-routed to serve Wagner College/St John's SI campus in Grymes Hill. 7)X1 peak hour service is maintained but during rush hours all X-1's start/end at 23nd and Broadway. For more please read the links.

real brief...

- the b4... it's better than a total cut, but it still remains that there'd be no service east of CI av. during off peak periods....

- the bx8 alteration takes into account, the elderly & handicapped riders...

- the original m22 proposal (which I thought was outlandish), is a slight improvement...

- they saved the bx18 & the q42, cool beans...

- finally, the s66 would have some importance...

- and when they say "service on other routes would be advised to accomodate former x1 & x6 riders", I'd like to see how they're gonna go about doing that....

{what comes to mind right this second, is moving the x2 off Lexington, and onto 5th av, en route to serving the FDR (while peak x1's would serve 23rd st, and points south)... in other words, the x2 would serve midtown riders & the x1 would serve lower manhattan riders....

personally, I think the x1 should be left alone, but... que sera, sera....}

And finally for LI Bus revised cuts, the N88(Jones Beach/Freeport summer bus special) and N26 are both saved but have service levels reduced.

figured they'd choose the n88 over the 87 to be saved.... told johnqpine he had nothing to worry about... they weren't gonna totally cut service to jones beach, outright...

-

finally, the s66 would have some importance...

Agreed. The S66 runs every 15-20 minutes during non-rush hours. I don't know how often the Wagner College shuttle vans run but at least the St. Johns students have a bus option from the terminal.

personally, I think the x1 should be left alone, but... que sera, sera....}[/i]

 

Yeah, IDK why they're marring the X1 like that. You know how much ridership that route gets? More than any other express bus route in NYCB or even MTA bus.

real brief...

 

- the b4... it's better than a total cut, but it still remains that there'd be no service east of CI av. during off peak periods....

 

figured they'd choose the n88 over the 87 to be saved.... told johnqpine he had nothing to worry about... they weren't gonna totally cut service to jones beach, outright...

Bro(b35) the B4 assuming the change is approved will no longer run on Neptune/Emmons between Ocean Pwy and Sheapshead Road. Other than the B36 school specials serving Mark Twain Middle School (Neptune and West End/East 15th St. where the B49 turns) & Westinghouse HS, everyone else on Neptune for bus service will have to walk to either Brighton Ave for the B1 (renamed the B86)or the B68. With that said Neptune Ave in the Brighton/Sheapshead areas is dead especially weekends when the schools are closed.

A compromise imo that the could have been every other B4 ends/starts at Sheapshead ( Station(B4 runs every 15-20 minutes off peak most of the day 7 days a week)with every other bus extended to Knapp/Emmons which would be about every 30 minutes or so. Then after 11pm-appx. 1am(last bus) all B4's would run only between Sheapshead station. That could save tens of thousands for the and not be so hurtful to Sheadshead/Emmons riders going to the movie complex on Knapp Street.

And also i agree that the N88 Jones Beach-Freeport bus was going to be saved as well but i thought the might have canned weekday (Monday-Thursday)service though.:confused:

I think several more routes will be saved and this is the first list of the revised planned cuts before a final one is made with the first changes starting this summer. However, so far, I agree Brooklyn has been screwed with by far the most cuts of any other boro in the city so far.:mad::tdown:

A few corrections:

1) You mean Bay Academy not Mark Twain, Mark Twain is in Coney Island. One interesting note: In 2004, when I spoke with the then Director of Planning at NYCT, he was arguing with me that these school specials didn't exist. Just shows you what they really know about the services they provide.

2) They never stated that the B1 will be renamed the B86. The designation will stay B1.

3) I don't believe any further modifications are proposed. I believe the vote is scheduled for next week.

The following are my comments posted on BusChat:

One correction--it's a little more than rush hours. It's from 6 to 9 AM and from 2PM to 7PM. I really think they are starting the service at 2 PM rather than 4 PM because of the high volume numbers I submitted to them for people using the bus at 2:30 in the afternoon. But I think that only happened because I submitted my comments directly to the Operations Planning. I really wonder how much of the actual written testimony from the hearing was even reviewed. They even omitted one hour and 40 minutes of the oral testimony from the Brooklyn hearing from their website which is typical of the sloppiness and incompleteness of their work.

While the change is beneficial to Plum Beach riders, it still only accounts for 500 of the 2100 weekday riders affected according to their own statistics. (And it doesn't help the 2300 weekend riders.) Also it seems that no one at the MTA went to Planning School. If they did, they would know that one of the principles of planning is that you only make schedule changes based on traffic counts. You use origin - destination data to make route changes, never traffic data.

The reason is that when you have two parallel routes like the B1 and the B4, one with frequent service (B1 every 6 to 12 minutes) and one with infrequent service (the B4 every 15 to 30 minutes) riders will tend to gravitate to the route that operates more frequently. That means that even if the walk to and from the B4 is shorter than to the B1, some riders will choose the B1 anyway because it runs more frequently.

An origin destination survey would reveal this, not traffic counts. So in reality while there may be a need for additional B4 service on Neptune Avenue and less B1 service, the MTA chooses to eliminate Neptune Ave service entirely and provide two routes instead on Avenue Z where two routes may not be necessary.

On the other hand, if there are considerable passengers boarding on Emmons Avenue and getting off on 86th Street or later, then the change would save riders about ten minutes. But this cannot be determined without asking people where they are going, not by counting people getting on and off.

In reference to some of the posts, some of those proposals were ones that I suggested. I said that the S66 could replace the S60 and that the BxM7A could be extended to replace the BxM7B. I don't know if the MTA saw my proposals and saw that some of them were feasable, or if enough people suggested it, but I'm glad that they were passed.

Yeah, IDK why they're marring the X1 like that. You know how much ridership that route gets? More than any other express bus route in NYCB or even MTA bus.

Preaching to the choir, my friend... you know I know of the ridership levels of the 1x...

this is their way of taking less buses off the road, system-wide.... just so happens that the x1 has a lot of runs/day (w/e the actual number is).. so they targeted it, to be cutback, full knowing they're not gonna maintain the current # of runs if it's truncated to 23rd st....

sneaky, right....

Bro(b35) the B4 assuming the change is approved will no longer run on Neptune/Emmons between Ocean Pwy and Sheapshead Road. Other than the B36 school specials serving Mark Twain Middle School (Neptune and West End/East 15th St. where the B49 turns) & Westinghouse HS, everyone else on Neptune for bus service will have to walk to either Brighton Ave for the B1 (renamed the B86)or the B68. With that said Neptune Ave in the Brighton/Sheapshead areas is dead especially weekends when the schools are closed.

well, have to say bro, that I agree w/ them moving service off Neptune... having went to william grady, having to pass neptune av everyday for 4 years, I never saw a healthy number of people board any one stop along neptune (including school kids)... and if someone did board at a given stop, it was rather sparse (one person here, two or three people there)... the last couple times I've taken the B4 as of last year/earlier this year, I see nothing different... during the rush, it gets stuck in traffic along neptune, w/ little to nobody waiting to board (yes, this is neptune b/w Ocean Pkwy & Coney Island av)... that's frustrating enough....

to add on, brighton beach residents don't want the b4, they want the B68 & that B/Q train... I believe there's a brighton beach resident on this board... he can further clarify if you want a 2nd opinion on it....

& the part of the B4 along emmons that passes by bay academy is already served by the 49... the part of emmons/neptune b/w the overpass of the B/Q train & CI av, is dead.

In reference to some of the posts, some of those proposals were ones that I suggested. I said that the S66 could replace the S60 and that the BxM7A could be extended to replace the BxM7B. I don't know if the MTA saw my proposals and saw that some of them were feasable, or if enough people suggested it, but I'm glad that they were passed.

yeh, don't think for a second that they don't have ppl. reading these forums...

- merging the bxm7a & 7b has been blurted out by many over the years...

- OTOH, I'll give you full credit on (proposing) sending s66's on up the hills to replace the 60; haven't seen that one on any other forum, or other website....

well, have to say bro, that I agree w/ them moving service off Neptune...

 

& the part of the B4 along emmons that passes by bay academy is already served by the 49...

I agree that there are very few on and offs along Neptune and that traffic on Neptune has greatly slowed during recent years, and it's even worse now with the closing of the Guider Avenue entrance to the Belt Parkway. It may be a good idea to move the bus to Avenue Z but you are just guessing without an origin destination survey. It is just poor planning to change routes based on traffic counts. And the fact that the B49 serves Bay Academy is irrelevant since the B49 only operates on Emmons Avenue for two blocks and does not serve the same population as the B4.

Far from being irrelevant...

The B49 can (and will) take the exact same students to Bay Academy coming off the B/Q train @ Sheepshead Bay (from either direction)...

....and as for "it may be a good idea, but I'm just guessing...", yeah yeah...

so the mta is just guessing too I suppose....

I see right through you man... You're gonna come up with anything, literally, to try to refute anyone that agrees w/ the mta's latest ploy to alter, any portion of the B4 route you designed...

I'm glad the N88 is saved but everytime I've taken it, its been dangerously overcrowded. Even with 30 min headways. If they go to hourly, people will be waiting on line for hours to get to Jones Beach.

Personally, i stopped going there because of the pathetic bus service. The N88 should run more often, esp now that the N87 wont be around.

The message still says, take your car and DRIVE there. Thats pretty much the message here anyway.

I have suggested to LIB numerous times that the N73 should be cut, it only carries 5 or less per trip. Same goes for the N50. And the N80/81 should be combined into one route! This just reaks of politics, for some reason powerful people must live in these south shore areas to keep running empty buses, while I jam onto a sardine packed N22 that runs only every 20 min rush hours (and not even that out of Hicksville!).