Committee Meeting January 2011: Big SI change!

http://mta.info/mta/news/books/pdf/110124_1045_BUS.pdf

Here they are:

Extend QM16 to Roxbury, April 2011

Move the M9 terminal back to 1 Av, ASAP

Various schedule changes with frequency reductions, April/June 2011.

The big one, Spring 2011:

-Reroute the S74 and S84 into Bricktown Center and terminate there.

-Extend the S78 north via Arthur Kill Road into Bricktown Center to cover the southern portion of the S74.

Looks like the S74 will no longer be the longest local...

http://mta.info/mta/news/books/pdf/110124_1045_BUS.pdf

 

Here they are:

 

Extend QM16 to Roxbury, April 2011

Move the M9 terminal back to 1 Av, ASAP

Various schedule changes with frequency reductions, April/June 2011.

 

The big one, Spring 2011:

 

-Reroute the S74 and S84 into Bricktown Center and terminate there.

-Extend the S78 north via Arthur Kill Road into Bricktown Center to cover the southern portion of the S74.

 

Looks like the S74 will no longer be the longest local...

If that the case the would be better off to 'split the S74/84' route IMO. Maybe have a new Tottenville route run between say "New Drop" and Tottenville along most of the (S74)route. While The (S74) is shortened to operate between Bricktown and the Ferry. With the S84 limited expanded to run all day weekdays and run between the Ferry and Tottenville via Bricktown.

I am sure if the had their way, they could end all Arthur Kill service *south* of Bricktown and have the riders use the (S78) or use the nearby (SIR).

Just my takes.

http://mta.info/mta/news/books/pdf/110124_1045_BUS.pdf

 

Here they are:

 

Extend QM16 to Roxbury, April 2011

Move the M9 terminal back to 1 Av, ASAP

Various schedule changes with frequency reductions, April/June 2011.

 

The big one, Spring 2011:

 

-Reroute the S74 and S84 into Bricktown Center and terminate there.

-Extend the S78 north via Arthur Kill Road into Bricktown Center to cover the southern portion of the S74.

 

Looks like the S74 will no longer be the longest local...

YESSSSS!!! Thank GOD they are fixing that M9 pattern, the pattern currently going southbound is TERRIBLE! 20th Street is a really tight turn from 2nd avenue, its a very VERY narrow street. Now they are reversing the pattern for the M9 to go UP 20th street, turn right onto 1st Avenue & another right and terminate at 23rd. Stupidly enough, that was the original pattern except that they terminated at 20th, they better get it right this time around....I was hoping that they would do this, the only loss is the M9 stop at 2nd Avenue & 22nd Street which always gave a nice alternative. But no matter, as long as they fix this silly pattern, all is well.

Jesus, I wont be touching that S78 ANYTIME soon...LOL! Same goes for that S74, having to ride that from Eltingville Transit Center made me go nuts....

http://mta.info/mta/news/books/pdf/110124_1045_BUS.pdf

 

Here they are:

 

Extend QM16 to Roxbury, April 2011

Move the M9 terminal back to 1 Av, ASAP

Various schedule changes with frequency reductions, April/June 2011.

 

The big one, Spring 2011:

 

-Reroute the S74 and S84 into Bricktown Center and terminate there.

-Extend the S78 north via Arthur Kill Road into Bricktown Center to cover the southern portion of the S74.

 

Looks like the S74 will no longer be the longest local...

I see Allen Cappelli attended... I wonder what he had to say about the S74/84and S78 reroutes/extensions...?

As the lone committee member from Staten Island, he's quite vocal in the news and I recall him saying that the MTA did say that while they would cut express bus service on Staten Island, they would also be willing to add additional express bus service where needed and they have stepped up to the plate on that in some cases.

I'm looking forward to seeing additional improvements in the near future. I don't use the local buses really, so is this rerouting/extension a big deal? Is it going to improve service for South Shore residents?

If that the case the would be better off to 'split the S74/84' route IMO. Maybe have a new Tottenville route run between say "New Drop" and Tottenville along most of the (S74)route. While The (S74) is shortened to operate between Bricktown and the Ferry. With the S84 limited expanded to run all day weekdays and run between the Ferry and Tottenville via Bricktown.

 

I am sure if the had their way, they could end all Arthur Kill service *south* of Bricktown and have the riders use the (S78) or use the nearby (SIR).

 

Just my takes.

YESSSSS!!! Thank GOD they are fixing that M9 pattern, the pattern currently going southbound is TERRIBLE! 20th Street is a really tight turn from 2nd avenue, its a very VERY narrow street. Now they are reversing the pattern for the M9 to go UP 20th street, turn right onto 1st Avenue & another right and terminate at 23rd. Stupidly enough, that was the original pattern except that they terminated at 20th, they better get it right this time around....I was hoping that they would do this, the only loss is the M9 stop at 2nd Avenue & 22nd Street which always gave a nice alternative. But no matter, as long as they fix this silly pattern, all is well.

 

Jesus, I wont be touching that S78 ANYTIME soon...LOL! Same goes for that S74, having to ride that from Eltingville Transit Center made me go nuts....

They did just that. The S74/S84 no longer serve Tottenville. Approximately 200 passengers will have to transfer to complete the trip.

I see Allen Cappelli attended... I wonder what he had to say about the S74/84and S78 reroutes/extensions...?

 

As the lone committee member from Staten Island, he's quite vocal in the news and I recall him saying that the MTA did say that while they would cut express bus service on Staten Island, they would also be willing to add additional express bus service where needed and they have stepped up to the plate on that in some cases.

 

I'm looking forward to seeing additional improvements in the near future. I don't use the local buses really, so is this rerouting/extension a big deal? Is it going to improve service for South Shore residents?

These reroutes actually saved them money, since they will gain some additional revenue from both routes serving Bricktowne (plus, the S78 is a bit less frequent than the S74, so they saved money in that respect

)

The only people who are at a disadvantage are people traveling between places north of Bricktowne and south of Bricktowne. I believe there is a middle school (I.S.34) that has people traveling from parts of Rossville and Woodrow, so they would be the main people affected by this. Hopefully, though, they time the buses so that they connect, so that people don't have to wait a long time to transfer.

I hope they decide to extend the S55 there as well. It might help those parents who are worried about their children transferring near the AKCC (though, personally, I don't see the problem with that. In any case, they could always transfer along Bloomingdale Road)

And as far as splitting the route in New Dorp (which is a moot point because they will shorten the route), I think that would lead to a large decrease in ridership on the South Shore section. Any route that doesn't serve St. George or Brooklyn is going to have low ridership.

The Staten Island Changes to the S74/S84 & S78 seem to be logical. It would make sense if they implement that plan.

They did just that. The S74/S84 no longer serve Tottenville. Approximately 200 passengers will have to transfer to complete the trip.

 

 

 

These reroutes actually saved them money, since they will gain some additional revenue from both routes serving Bricktowne (plus, the S78 is a bit less frequent than the S74, so they saved money in that respect

)

 

The only people who are at a disadvantage are people traveling between places north of Bricktowne and south of Bricktowne. I believe there is a middle school (I.S.34) that has people traveling from parts of Rossville and Woodrow, so they would be the main people affected by this. Hopefully, though, they time the buses so that they connect, so that people don't have to wait a long time to transfer.

 

I hope they decide to extend the S55 there as well. It might help those parents who are worried about their children transferring near the AKCC (though, personally, I don't see the problem with that. In any case, they could always transfer along Bloomingdale Road)

 

And as far as splitting the route in New Dorp (which is a moot point because they will shorten the route), I think that would lead to a large decrease in ridership on the South Shore section. Any route that doesn't serve St. George or Brooklyn is going to have low ridership.

Come to think of it if the MTA would just do a better job at transfer points, I'm sure local bus riders would have it much better on SI. I think folks can deal with the waiting times so long as buses show up roughly when they're scheduled and transfers can be made with relative ease.

I have to admit that I've been using the X1 to the S53 connection rather frequently of late because as soon as I get off of an X1, an S53 comes in like 5 minutes or less, sometimes even right after the express bus, so I literally step off of one bus and onto another. Since the bus leaves me within walking distance to my house it's worth saving the $10.00 at times. I also notice quite a few people use this set up too, so perhaps the MTA took notice and that's why the connection there on Hylan from the express bus to the S53 is so quick.

However, the S53 suffers terribly from overcrowding, so I will pick and choose when I do that connection. The constant stops every stop is rather annoying, so this would only be a once in a while thing and certainly not in the summertime. I hate crowds, and the local bus and riff raff just isn't my thing and I find that the local buses particularly on Staten Island have terrible climate control in the summertime.

Speaking of hard transfers, one I find hard is the S44/S89 to the S46/S96. Last year, they would usually be timed (though sometimes I would see the S46/S96 pulling out just as I was running across the street to get them).

This year, I find myself waiting at least 5-10 minutes for the bus, while watching at least 2 other buses pass by on Morningstar Road (usually an S44 and S89 in each direction) and 1 bus pass by towards the West Shore Plaza.

And the thing about transfers is that they discourage ridership, especially among people who are in a hurry (and definitely among people who have other options, such as driving). My school is in Port Richmond and I know some people who live in Westerleigh and Willowbrook and, even though they take the bus in the afternoon, they always get driven in the morning.

Speaking of hard transfers, one I find hard is the S44/S89 to the S46/S96. Last year, they would usually be timed (though sometimes I would see the S46/S96 pulling out just as I was running across the street to get them).

 

This year, I find myself waiting at least 5-10 minutes for the bus, while watching at least 2 other buses pass by on Morningstar Road (usually an S44 and S89 in each direction) and 1 bus pass by towards the West Shore Plaza.

 

And the thing about transfers is that they discourage ridership, especially among people who are in a hurry (and definitely among people who have other options, such as driving). My school is in Port Richmond and I know some people who live in Westerleigh and Willowbrook and, even though they take the bus in the afternoon, they always get driven in the morning.

That's why I stopped dealing with the S54 from the express bus. For a five minute ride to Forest Avenue, it's not worth waiting up to an hour when I can call service and have a car waiting there for me when I step off of the express bus.

Another transfer point that should be fixed is S53 to the Victory Blvd buses, especially the S62. I notice that you'll have an S53 waiting at the light while a Victory Blvd bus will pass by and since they placed the stops so far away at that location, running is usually pointless. They seem to have the S48 and S53 linked somewhat decently which was smart. :cool:

When that type of stuff happens, I usually ask the driver if they can let me off before the light (usually, this is at Forest Avenue/Richmond Avenue). Sometimes I do it anyway, even if I don't see the bus along Richmond Avenue, because when I make that transfer, I'm usually carrying a lot of bags.

And, I've noticed that as well about the S53 (from Brooklyn)->S48/S98 (from St. George). They can often be perfectly timed.

I remember one time, I was on an S48 (or S98. I forget which) and noticed that he pulled out as an S54 was at Manor Road/Forest Avenue. I though "Wow, anybody who wanted this bus must be pissed".

When that type of stuff happens, I usually ask the driver if they can let me off before the light (usually, this is at Forest Avenue/Richmond Avenue). Sometimes I do it anyway, even if I don't see the bus along Richmond Avenue, because when I make that transfer, I'm usually carrying a lot of bags.

 

And, I've noticed that as well about the S53 (from Brooklyn)->S48/S98 (from St. George). They can often be perfectly timed.

 

I remember one time, I was on an S48 (or S98. I forget which) and noticed that he pulled out as an S54 was at Manor Road/Forest Avenue. I though "Wow, anybody who wanted this bus must be pissed".

I think they try to time the S54 with the S48 for the most part. The problem is that the S54 is so unreliable, especially going back towards West Brighton. Most of the times that the S54 was MIA, it was usually going that way. Not sure why either. If it's due to a breakdown fine, but to have two missing is just insane. Is there any point in which the S54 gets caught up in traffic or gets really crowded? I know it does with the school kids, but I'm just trying to play process of elimination to understand the erractic service on that line. My feeling is that B/Os just aren't replaced if they call out sick or something since that line has such low ridership outside of "rush hours". Another problem is buses showing up sort of whenever.

http://mta.info/mta/news/books/pdf/110124_1045_BUS.pdf

(pages 61-65 of the PDF file)

As a result of this proposal, the S74/84's new terminal would be the Bricktown Center; it will no longer serve Tottenville. Riders would have to transfer to the S78 as a result, which would be extended from Tottenville to Bricktown.

Sorry LRG Amtrak posted it first here in this thread.

http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26585

I know what I'm doing this Spring...Staten Island busfanning for the ultimate win!

Good news about the M9 (M9).

Is CBA open I'm sure the MCI's bear the decal if it is. All of SI X routes run in manhattan to see if they are marked.

I know what I'm doing this Spring...Staten Island busfanning for the ultimate win!

So which do you like riding more on SI? Xbuses or locals?

North or South Shore?

:cool:

So the (S74) gets cut back to South Shore Commons, forcing riders transfer to the (S78)? Doesn't make too much sense to me. Western Rockaway residents get spoiled again as the QM16 is extended westward to Roxbury. I think Neponsit was far enough.

So the (S74) gets cut back to South Shore Commons, forcing riders transfer to the (S78)? Doesn't make too much sense to me. Western Rockaway residents get spoiled again as the QM16 is extended westward to Roxbury. I think Neponsit was far enough.

I only use the express bus on the South Shore, but I do know that there was a lot of talk about re-routing at least one local bus to the Bricktown Center. However, seeing how anemic local bus service is on parts of the South Shore and the lack of transit options, I don't know much of a "win-win" this is... The S78 isn't that frequent, so unless frequency is increased it may not be that great of a deal after all. However, checkmate did point out that ridership should increase with the re-routes to Bricktown, so we'll have to wait and see...

So which do you like riding more on SI? Xbuses or locals?

 

North or South Shore?

 

:cool:

I busfan all over S.I., and as long as I have an Orion 5.501 I'm good...and you can take that to the bank :tup:

Someone's noticing what I also noticed w/ the QM16.... ever since they extended it to 147th, ridership has drastically increased.... you'll find that the majority of riders that take it to the rockaways, are riding PAST Beach 116th st... When it terminated at B 116th, most the pax (coming from manhattan) disembarked at that 1st stop after it comes off the cross bay bridge, where they would then xfer to the Q22 (either direction).... no one really rode it to B 116th, itself....

This QM16 extension to the Q22 terminal, I don't think will be worth it though.... strange how this comes about, when I just took the qm16 this past wednesday, beforehand having been a while since.... that terminal over there on B 169th is nothing more than a "kiss & fly", so to speak, to Breezy point residents.....

lightning doesn't strike twice....

----

The robbing peter to pay paul scenario w/ the S74 & 78, I don't know about either.... I mean, I read the PDF... saw where it mentioned existing layover problems (which do exist) over on Amboy/Main (keep this in mind as you read my post).... none of which had anything to do w/ the S74, since it ends on the other side of Amboy...

something stinks, and I don't like it.... they're not gonna increase service on the S78, the S74 was cutback... look for more things to follow.... I can already see it... they're gonna take the S74 out of the correctional fac, now that the 55 ends there.... the 56 will be sent over to bricktowne also... and unfortunately, the S59 (as a result of extending the 78) will also no longer serve tottenville... only local bus that'll end up running in the area is the S78... sucks for those ppl. that took the S74 to/from ETC (and other points, of course).... this isn't suffolk county.. malls aren't used as transfer points like that here in the city....

and to boot, remember, the S78 doesn't have a limited counterpart, so buses will be a-crawlin', and you will be a-waitin'....

this is the furthest thing from a win-win, passenger-wise... outside of giving riders direct access to the shopping ctr., all this does is make things far easier as far as terminating buses down in the south shore....

read between the lines... things aren't always just what's on the surface...

Someone's noticing what I also noticed w/ the QM16.... ever since they extended it to 147th, ridership has drastically increased.... you'll find that the majority of riders that take it to the rockaways, are riding PAST Beach 116th st... When it terminated at B 116th, most the pax (coming from manhattan) disembarked at that 1st stop after it comes off the cross bay bridge, where they would then xfer to the Q22 (either direction).... no one really rode it to B 116th, itself....

 

This QM16 extension to the Q22 terminal, I don't think will be worth it though.... strange how this comes about, when I just took the qm16 this past wednesday, beforehand having been a while since.... that terminal over there on B 169th is nothing more than a "kiss & fly", so to speak, to Breezy point residents.....

 

lightning doesn't strike twice....

----

 

 

The robbing peter to pay paul scenario w/ the S74 & 78, I don't know about either.... I mean, I read the PDF... saw where it mentioned existing layover problems (which do exist) over on Amboy/Main (keep this in mind as you read my post).... none of which had anything to do w/ the S74, since it ends on the other side of Amboy...

 

something stinks, and I don't like it.... they're not gonna increase service on the S78, the S74 was cutback... look for more things to follow.... I can already see it... they're gonna take the S74 out of the correctional fac, now that the 55 ends there.... the 56 will be sent over to bricktowne also... and unfortunately, the S59 (as a result of extending the 78) will also no longer serve tottenville... only local bus that'll end up running in the area is the S78... sucks for those ppl. that took the S74 to/from ETC (and other points, of course).... this isn't suffolk county.. malls aren't used as transfer points like that here in the city....

 

and to boot, remember, the S78 doesn't have a limited counterpart, so buses will be a-crawlin', and you will be a-waitin'....

 

this is the furthest thing from a win-win, passenger-wise... outside of giving riders direct access to the shopping ctr., all this does is make things far easier as far as terminating buses down in the south shore....

 

read between the lines... things aren't always just what's on the surface...

When the QM16 only went to Beach 116th Street, I could understand why passengers going towards Far Rockaway would want to get off near the Cross Bay Bridge, but why would passengers going towards the western part of the Rockaways get off there? Don't they have the option of the Q35 (in addition to the Q22) at Beach 116th Street?

When they say that ridership increased by 70% since they extended it to Beach 147th Street, what were those people doing before? Taking the Q22 to the QM17? Or were they driving?

When they mentioned the layover problems, they were only referring to the S59/S78, not the S74/S84.

And as far as your predictions go, I don't see what this has to do with the S59-the extension of the S78 won't offer any additional connections for people in the Tottenville area. And if the S56 were sent to Bricktowne (I don't know what routing it could take, unless it stopped serving Tottenville High School), wouldn't that be good? It would provide the South Shore with access to Bricktowne.

Plus, people from Tottenville also have another option for service-the SIR. If they needed to get to a destination like the ETC, they don't necessarily have to transfer at Bricktowne-they can go to Eltingville and transfer to a bus.

Not to mention that relatively few people actually go between the S74 portions north and south of Bricktowne (only 3% of the ridership).

When the QM16 only went to Beach 116th Street, I could understand why passengers going towards Far Rockaway would want to get off near the Cross Bay Bridge, but why would passengers going towards the western part of the Rockaways get off there? Don't they have the option of the Q35 (in addition to the Q22) at Beach 116th Street?

 

When they say that ridership increased by 70% since they extended it to Beach 147th Street, what were those people doing before? Taking the Q22 to the QM17? Or were they driving?

They (QM16 riders) didn't take the Q35 b/c they're not going to Brooklyn... the Q35 is seldom used for intra-rockaway service...

some of them took WB Q22's, but most would get off at B 95th (or w/e it is.. I know it's in the 90's...) & have someone pick them up from there... there's more than enough space where that street divides, where cars idled/parked...

side point #1

usage on the QM16/17 has always been interchangable...

[*] if someone lives closer to far rockaway, and the 16 comes first, they take 16's & get off at B. 95th....

[*] if someone lives closer to B 116th, and the 17 comes first, they take 17s & get off at B 91st...

^^ the difference b/w those 2 scenarios is:

[*] the pax seeking service towards far rockaway have the Q22 AND the at their disposal.... I'm willing to say that 100% of those riders fitting this commute, cross the street & take the Q22 coming off the QM16, over the ...

[*] the pax seeking service towards B116th (and onward) technically have the shuttle [but that option is NOT utilized... at all], as well as the Q22, Q21, & 53... problem with the 21 (besides it's crummy headways) & the 53 is that they don't travel past B 116th, & there's a walk involved coming off the 17 to get to the 21/53.... which only leaves the 22... which is why that pickup/dropoff spot for idling/parked cars was common... I'm sure the MTA picked up on that... which was why they decided to extend QM16's to B 147th....

side point #2

FYI, the Q22 is more utilized on the eastern side of the wye, than it is on the western side.... most 22 riders you see on the western side, are those that, in some way, shape, or form, came off Q35's.... it's an interesting dynamic down there the way they have to get around...

When they mentioned the layover problems, they were only referring to the S59/S78, not the S74/S84.

Yes, I know that... didn't you see where I said the layover problems had nothin to do w/ the S74....

 

And as far as your predictions go, I don't see what this has to do with the S59-the extension of the S78 won't offer any additional connections for people in the Tottenville area. And if the S56 were sent to Bricktowne (I don't know what routing it could take, unless it stopped serving Tottenville High School), wouldn't that be good? It would provide the South Shore with access to Bricktowne.

They want to move ALL buses from terminating on that corner.... that's been a problem down there for as long as I can remember.... hell, took them long enough to actually DO something about it.... furthermore, this isn't just an "S78" thing.... a physical bus, is still a bus... so that's what it "has to do" w/ the S59, regardless of how (in)/frequent service is....

 

Yeah, the S56 going there would be good (just have buses turn off foster onto drumgoole rd, then make it's way from there... that can be done)... but again, at what expense?

the possible removal of the S59 to tottenville... the cutting back of the S74... the service decrease of the S74 (which I also think is gonna happen somewhere down the line)... headways remaining the same on the extended S78....

 

^^ I find that w/ every seemingly positive change that the MTA makes w/ one route, there's usually 3,4,5,6,7 negative changes that comes as a result of it....

 

 

Plus, people from Tottenville also have another option for service-the SIR. If they needed to get to a destination like the ETC, they don't necessarily have to transfer at Bricktowne-they can go to Eltingville and transfer to a bus.

 

Not to mention that relatively few people actually go between the S74 portions north and south of Bricktowne (only 3% of the ridership).

...another reason for the MTA to run as little bus service as possible to tottenville...

reply, bolded.....

Excuse my ignorance...exactly where is Bricktowne? It's not on Google Maps.

In regards to B35's idea of the S56 being extended, that was one of the ideas that I had in mind, the only thing that would have to be done would be to rework the S56 bus route in the vicinity of Tottenville H.S. so it won't run in a big circle like the S57 does around the New Dorp station.