D train killing: Lockdown was too risky, riders say

[Harry]

Getting stuck on the subway with a knife-wielding maniac is some straphangers' worst nightmare, but that's what happened in the D train killing.

 

Police told the motorman to keep the doors closed when the train arrived at the Seventh Ave. stop in Manhattan minutes after Gerardo Sanchez allegedly stabbed a homeless man to death Saturday morning.

 

"[They] gambled with a lot of lives," said Richard Kaye, 45, of Morrisania, when asked whether keeping passengers locked inside was the right call.

 

"God forbid he had stabbed four more people."

 

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2009/11/23/2009-11-23_train_lockdown_too_risky_riders_say.html

[INDman]

It tough to say in this case. By keeping the doors closed, it kept the perp in one place, but at the same time he could have hurt more people.

[fordhamkid7721]

Thank god he didn't have another fit of rage and attack anybody else in the car. It's good for him to be locked in the car but the bad thing about that is

NOBODY can get out so they're all almost defenseless. Again it's crazy how I can ride the train at 2am all through Brooklyn and the Bronx with probably like 20 people in the whole train and not have anything happen to me, but you can get stabbed to death over a seat on a train in Midtown Manhattan with more people on it. Had to be a crime of passion for the guy to stab a dude over his bag being in a seat. 30 years in prison or 30 minutes standing which would you rather do?

 

From what I heard he was on one side of the car probably near his victim and the passengers were all at the other end. And for all the people that say that "if I was there I'd do this that and a third"...shut up...you know damn well you'd be in the end of the car fearing for your life too lol. But back on-topic:

 

Is this standard procedure when it comes to crimes? to lock the perp in the train until the police come?

[mark1447]

 

= Death.. Thats what im seeing latley. Hopefully this gets fixed!

[PopsicleXGirl]

the standard procedure is to call control and let them instruct you on what to do when you get to the next station.

 

unless instructed otherwise, my instinct would have been to open the doors and let the police do their job. it is not my job to detain murderers with innocent passengers on my train. if other passengers in that car got killed because of my actions, i'd have to live with that for the rest of my life.

[mark1447]

the standard procedure is to call control and let them instruct you on what to do when you get to the next station.

 

unless instructed otherwise, my instinct would have been to open the doors and let the police do their job. it is not my job to detain murderers with innocent passengers on my train. if other passengers in that car got killed because of my actions, i'd have to live with that for the rest of my life.

 

Ya i bet if it were a non-75 ft car passangers will cross to get away from this. Im not gonna risk staying in a car while someone else is getting stabbed only because the NYPD wants to catch the person... Tho many people would do the same too..

[BusOperator3319]

the standard procedure is to call control and let them instruct you on what to do when you get to the next station.

 

unless instructed otherwise, my instinct would have been to open the doors and let the police do their job. it is not my job to detain murderers with innocent passengers on my train. if other passengers in that car got killed because of my actions, i'd have to live with that for the rest of my life.

Agreed unfortunately tha NYPD always seem to do things that are unacceptable and that incident could have resulted in someone else getting hurt

 

somtimes i am critical of tha tactics that tha NYPD use

[Urbanfortitude]

Leaving the doors closed meant the killer wasn't going anywhere. But neither were any of the passengers trapped inside. That could have easily turned into an ugly hostage situation.

 

The flip side of it is that the C/R could have opened the doors and the killer would have made a break for it, if not into the crowd somehow then into the tunnels. But I don't know what car he was in. He'd have had to be in the very first or very last car.

 

It basically is "coulda, shoulda, woulda...." What matters is in the end things worked out and this guy is behind bars. Nobody ever said catching a criminal would be easy. There's risks either way in this situation.

[Grand Concourse]

I read that the c/r can unlock the storm doors on the 75' car remotely. But then again it depends on where the killer was. And if this was the first car and the guy was at the end of the car next to the storm door, he would be blocking the only way out.

[metsfan]

If the doors opened, they would have no suspect in custody. Yea, it would suck to be in that train car, i've been near some pretty not so good stuff, never involving a death, but, i mean i think they did the right thing. If i were on that train, i would have thanked the crew for detaining him, even if i was injured, you can't let someone like that go.

 

- A

[Grand Concourse]

What....?

I'd be pissed off if I was locked in a train with a psycho. If I got injured because the crew was told to keep the doors closed, I'm suing.

Yes I understand this is for the 'greater good' to keep the psycho in so he can't escape, but the 75' cars are basically a prison where you can't escape into the next car. Why would I be 'ok' if I can't get off?

[LRG]

This was tough, but I chose yes, because by doing this, they apprehended the suspect much quicker and easier. He wasn't armed at all, all he had on him was a knife. Since the passengers were all huddled together, if he attempted to attack anyone else, there's only one of him, and he'd probably be taken out for sure.

 

If he was armed with a gun, the doors should have been immediately opened so the passengers inside wouldn't be in a greater danger.

[Grand Concourse]

The MTA is lucky the guy didn't attack anyone else, but you can bet those riders WILL SUE if they were harmed because of this action.

[Dan05979]

The MTA is lucky the guy didn't attack anyone else, but you can bet those riders WILL SUE if they were harmed because of this action.

 

I wasn't really paying attention to this story, but today I read the paper and this guy is a real piece of sh*t. This poor guy just sitting waiting to go home and then this - his life is over, because of some punk mutha efer whose angry with the world. People like that need instant needle action.

[IRT Bronx Express]

Stupid way to ask a seat from an homeless man. Its pretty much this week's topic on the news.

[Dan05979]

Stupid way to ask a seat from an homeless man. Its pretty much this week's topic on the news.

 

Nobody was homeless

[Urbanfortitude]

The MTA is lucky the guy didn't attack anyone else, but you can bet those riders WILL SUE if they were harmed because of this action.

 

Ok and let's look at the flip side. They open the doors & our suspect escapes toward the crowd, possibly grabbing an innocent bystander at knife point to ensure his escape; possibly pushing someone onto the tracks where they get injured; possibly pushing someone down the stairs and they get injured; possibly knifing someone in the crowd injuring or killing them...

 

someone would be suing either way you look at it. On top of that, if the suspect escapes, then we have angry people cursing the NYPD out because they didn't catch the killer. So we have the possibility of more people injured outside the train, one possibly more dead AND our killer still on the loose. As opposed to some of those people on the train injured maybe dead and our killer caught. Do we really want to concern ourselves with lawsuits here?

 

 

I don't like the thought of being trapped on a train with a guy armed with a knife either. But if the police catch him as a result I can be thankful for that with my well being intact or compromised.

[St Louis Car 09]

This story is all over the place.I voted yes for locking him in because It`s an easy bust for the cops and Easy for ask witnesses questions,which speeds things along quicker.

[BusOperator3319]

If the doors opened, they would have no suspect in custody. Yea, it would suck to be in that train car, i've been near some pretty not so good stuff, never involving a death, but, i mean i think they did the right thing. If i were on that train, i would have thanked the crew for detaining him, even if i was injured, you can't let someone like that go.

 

- A

This is why unfortunatly i stay away from tha trains over tha years it has gotten worse off then what it was when you have complete strangers some of whom who's mental state is in question you would have to worry same goes for the people who get on and grope these innocent women

 

certain hours you have the deralicts homeless and drunks getting on tha trains and quite often i find tha homless getting bold and coming out at all times of tha day

[Harry]

Pretty interesting poll results so far. 17 to 17, 50% down the middle right now.

[MattTrain]

My question to those passengers before they sue, are you going to confront this knife-wielding man or are you going to go to the far end of the train car and pray that he doesn't attack you? That's how I saw this situation if the doors were to be kept closed.

[R62A 1991]

This is quite the no-win situation. Either way, someone gets blamed:

 

He is kept in: "how could you endanger the lives of all of those straphangers?"

He is given an opportunity to escape: "he's still out there, what's saying he won't go at it again?"

 

That was my dinner conversation tonight. I voted to keep him in. Thankfully, no one was further hurt, but it was better than letting him out in my eyes, because either way, he still could've taken another life if he really wanted to. This way, they were waiting for him (except I still wish that process was not as slow) and his life is over. I know there are certain things I'm overlooking or leaving out, but I don't have all the facts. The above was my judgment based solely on what I know.

[SevenEleven]

This is one of these life threatening situations in life that need quick action. I say that the motorman did the right by keeping the doors locked. Sure they trapped passengers. However, you have to remember that the cops gave the order to keep them locked. They are most of the time more knowledgable in the field, and would have known of proper action if this escalated to a hostage situation.

 

In Addition, if this was a 60 footer car with the doors unlocked, the suspect could have still escaped since he could have climbed to the top of the car or just hop out through the middle. You also have to think that there were several commuters on board. Running to the back of the car was the right thing to do - Standing ground. However, some group (whoever was stronger) should have protected the commuters from the attacker and take him down just in case the cops did not arrive at the time.

 

All in all, I believe that this was the right thing to do. If you have asked an officer on the scene, I'm pretty sure that they would have told you the same. It was a good arrest, it turned out postive, (other than the murder), the murderer is behind bars and the situation ended where and when it did.

 

My vote towards the poll goes as such.

[INDman]

Did some of you guys read the story? It was NOT a TA decission to keep the train closed up. The NYPD ordered the T/O not to open the doors.

[SevenEleven]

I found a follow up article on this. The passengers essentially put themselves at risk because one of them pulled the e-brakes on the train.

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2009/11/23/2009-11-23_subway_slay_vic_wild_germ_freak.html

 

A horrified passenger pulled the emergency brake as the train made its way from Rockefeller Center to the Seventh Ave. stop.

 

Sanchez pried open a train door while it was stopped just enough to drop the knife onto the tracks below, police said.

 

It took a few terrifying minutes for the train to start moving again, cops said. The motorman radioed police, who were waiting at the station when the train arrived at 53rd St., police said.

 

The motorman kept the doors closed in the station at the request of cops, giving officers the chance to board without letting the suspect escape.