B44 +SelectBusService+

[bobtehpanda]

The situation with double parking there must be worse than I thought.  On the Upper East Side during the day it's rare for there not to be a car double parked on any given block along 72nd, 79th, and 86th Streets, the major crosstown streets, and it effectively reduces the street to one lane each direction, yet it still moves.  That's what I think of when I think about double parking.  And I withdraw what I said about the last part of injury or death.  What I meant by that was running a red light puts everyone around you at risk from being hit by cross traffic.

 

bobtehpanda brought up a good solution actually.  People's attitude about double parking will not change because if they need something nothing's going to deter them from stopping to go into the store or do whatever they need to do.  If they cannot find a spot then they're just going to leave their car on the street while they go in.  Creating more parking spaces or increasing the availability of parking spaces would move all of those double parked cars into legal parking spaces.

 

Also, if the double parking issue is as bad as it seems, why doesn't the NYPD just station traffic agents there during the day to write tickets all the time?  I remember years ago the NYPD stationed a cop on the Upper East Side to catch drivers ignoring a no left turn sign at 79th/York.  The cop would just park half way down the block and stop any car that made an illegal turn, which must have generated so much money and also made sure that those drivers that got stopped would never do it again.  If people get tickets for double parking then they will be much less likely to do it again because it sure isn't worth risking getting fined $100+.

 

It's probably because the City Council has this whole "drivers deserve a break" mentality (because when was the last time you saw a Council member taking the bus or the subway?)

 

"Oh, parking is too expensive"

"There's not enough parking"

"Orange stickers are unfair to people violating parking rules because they're hard to remove"

"A driver needs ten minutes to use the Muni-meters"

etc.

[Gorgor]

It's probably because the City Council has this whole "drivers deserve a break" mentality (because when was the last time you saw a Council member taking the bus or the subway?)

 

"Oh, parking is too expensive"

"There's not enough parking"

"Orange stickers are unfair to people violating parking rules because they're hard to remove"

"A driver needs ten minutes to use the Muni-meters"

etc.

 

Well then there's the problem.

[Culver]

Well then there's the problem.

New York City is a dense, urban city that can't possibly revolve around cars. Our politicians are all wealthy douchebags, though, so CARS CARS CARS CARS GIVE DRIVERS A BREAK MORE LANES. These morons are all stuck in the 1950s.

[BrooklynIRT]

I certainly hope it is understood that these problems can only be solved if mad people recognize that change starts with the individual and/r petitioning the government until they do something significant about these problems.

 

that being said, also keep in mind that it is usually much easier to try keep the car-independent car-independent than it is to try to break the car-dependent out of car-dependence.

 

for now I am 100% of the opinion that change starts with the individual, which means never owning a car no matter what (and caving into absolutely no pressure from anybody or anything to own one), since I am not interested in contributing to all these problems cars cause for buses, which neither the government nor the citizenry will solve at this time.

 

I will not petition the government unless enough people join me, and at this time I am not holding my breath to see if enough (influential) people join me, because I have other responsibilities and cannot be distracted by such breath-holding if there is no point to it.

 

if it is worth petitioning the government I suppose I had better do it sooner rather than later. if I wait too long I may not be able to petition or help petition the government since I may have too many responsibilities later in life. if I miss my chance(s) to petition or help petition the government, at least I will know that I am not contributing to these problems because I will never own a car while living in this city. and I will probably never leave because I want to be here to see these problems solved or actively participate in solving them.

 

most likely I still will never own a car even if something significant is done about all the problems other people's cars cause me and other bus users.

 

it would be cool if they could do something like keep it to 1 car for every 10-20 (or more) people in each apartment building, so there would be fewer cars and less space needed to store them, and people could agree to use cars at different times for different tasks and not junk up the cars or steal stuff from them. and people would, if appropriate, avoid leaving personal items in the cars. this would be good for occasions in which people need to carry huge items that absolutely could not go on mass transit or whatever.

 

just a thought.

[AndrewJC]

I'm just going to point out that the problem with the parking is a classic example of textbook supply and demand. Parking is provided at an artificially low rate (I'm not sure if Nostrand and Rogers are metered or not, but if they are, even the city rate isn't that high compared to an off-street garage), and thus demand for it is much higher than supply due to the low cost, causing double parking and congestion.

 

The best solution would be to charge a market-rate price for spots such that there will always be one to two places open on every block (which is actually what DOT is doing with its ParkSmart program in certain sections of the city), but since people complain about paying pocket change for a spot they shouldn't really be occupying for more than two hours at most, this is never going to happen, not with our pandering City Council.

 

The SBS bus lane cameras will deter people on Nostrand, just as they have on Hylan, 34th, Second and First Avenues, and Pelham Parkway. The fines are going higher and higher these days, and it's extremely difficult to have a ticket thrown out in court when there is video and photographic evidence of a violation. A camera is sustained, automated enforcement, and that will deter people from double parking on Nostrand. (They'll probably move to side streets to do it.)

 

Please, you're making too much sense. Stop it!

[qjtransitmaster]

Please, you're making too much sense. Stop it!

yup sums up that post.

[Gorgor]

I certainly hope it is understood that these problems can only be solved if mad people recognize that change starts with the individual and/r petitioning the government until they do something significant about these problems.

 

that being said, also keep in mind that it is usually much easier to try keep the car-independent car-independent than it is to try to break the car-dependent out of car-dependence.

 

for now I am 100% of the opinion that change starts with the individual, which means never owning a car no matter what (and caving into absolutely no pressure from anybody or anything to own one), since I am not interested in contributing to all these problems cars cause for buses, which neither the government nor the citizenry will solve at this time.

 

I will not petition the government unless enough people join me, and at this time I am not holding my breath to see if enough (influential) people join me, because I have other responsibilities and cannot be distracted by such breath-holding if there is no point to it.

 

if it is worth petitioning the government I suppose I had better do it sooner rather than later. if I wait too long I may not be able to petition or help petition the government since I may have too many responsibilities later in life. if I miss my chance(s) to petition or help petition the government, at least I will know that I am not contributing to these problems because I will never own a car while living in this city. and I will probably never leave because I want to be here to see these problems solved or actively participate in solving them.

 

most likely I still will never own a car even if something significant is done about all the problems other people's cars cause me and other bus users.

 

it would be cool if they could do something like keep it to 1 car for every 10-20 (or more) people in each apartment building, so there would be fewer cars and less space needed to store them, and people could agree to use cars at different times for different tasks and not junk up the cars or steal stuff from them. and people would, if appropriate, avoid leaving personal items in the cars. this would be good for occasions in which people need to carry huge items that absolutely could not go on mass transit or whatever.

 

just a thought.

 

You're saying that you want government regulation on whether or not someone may own a car?  And you want each building to have a set number of cars, and the people living in the building can take any car they want out depending on what they need it for? 

 

I cannot take this much anti-car attitude at one time.

 

I live in Manhattan.  I have a car and use it to get from point A to point B because the nearest subway station is 15 minutes from my house.  Trips to various destinations across town takes me 15 minutes whereas it would take close to 40 minutes using the crosstown bus and then a connecting north-south bus.  Also keep in mind that using mass transit is expensive for families.  If a family of four wants to drive to a restaurant to eat, it costs $3.50 per hour at a munimeter, or free if they find a free spot, and the price of gas would be only a couple bucks, if even.  That same trip would cost that family of four $20 taking the subway/bus, take over twice the amount of time to travel, and there's absolutely no comfort at all.

 

Cars aren't a problem.  It's people double parking and parking in bus lanes that causes the problems. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

You're saying that you want government regulation on whether or not someone may own a car?  And you want each building to have a set number of cars, and the people living in the building can take any car they want out depending on what they need it for? 

 

I cannot take this much anti-car attitude at one time.

 

I live in Manhattan.  I have a car and use it to get from point A to point B because the nearest subway station is 15 minutes from my house.  Trips to various destinations across town takes me 15 minutes whereas it would take close to 40 minutes using the crosstown bus and then a connecting north-south bus.  Also keep in mind that using mass transit is expensive for families.  If a family of four wants to drive to a restaurant to eat, it costs $3.50 per hour at a munimeter, or free if they find a free spot, and the price of gas would be only a couple bucks, if even.  That same trip would cost that family of four $20 taking the subway/bus, take over twice the amount of time to travel, and there's absolutely no comfort at all.

 

Cars aren't a problem.  It's people double parking and parking in bus lanes that causes the problems. 

Oh please.  I spend roughly 300 - 375 a month for my transportation (express bus and MetroNorth) and if I had a car I would be paying much more than that. Garage, insurance, maintenance, car payment, etc. Most families have unlimited Metrocards.  If the family has two kids, those kids would likely ride for free so it would not cost $20.00.  That's a big exaggeration to say the least. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

It's probably because the City Council has this whole "drivers deserve a break" mentality (because when was the last time you saw a Council member taking the bus or the subway?)

 

"Oh, parking is too expensive"

"There's not enough parking"

"Orange stickers are unfair to people violating parking rules because they're hard to remove"

"A driver needs ten minutes to use the Muni-meters"

etc.

 

 

Well then there's the problem.

 

 

New York City is a dense, urban city that can't possibly revolve around cars. Our politicians are all wealthy douchebags, though, so CARS CARS CARS CARS GIVE DRIVERS A BREAK MORE LANES. These morons are all stuck in the 1950s.

This whole obsession with cars in NYC is ridiculous and certainly generational.  Folks in my generation for the most part use public transit and their economic standing makes no difference.  I can't understand for the life of me why anyone needs to use a car when they're going to or within Manhattan unless it's to the hospital or to do some serious shopping or something.  I do all of my shopping in the city at Whole Foods and manage just fine on the express bus.  I would have to say that having a car is such a hassle here.  You've got to find a garage or parking for the car, keep up the car, make sure there's no morons messing with your car, the tons of potholes and f*cked up streets tearing up your car, etc., etc. etc.  I don't need the headache.  

 

I just walk out of my apartment, put Bus Time on, walk to the stop in less than 10 minutes and my bus is there shortly after minutes.  I get a seat and relax.  Seems much easier than being stressed out with a car.

[BrooklynIRT]

replies in bold

 

Oh please.  I spend roughly 300 - 375 a month for my transportation (express bus and MetroNorth) and if I had a car I would be paying much more than that. Garage, insurance, maintenance, car payment, etc. Most families have unlimited Metrocards.  If the family has two kids, those kids would likely ride for free so it would not cost $20.00.  That's a big exaggeration to say the least. 

 

this is not an argument I would use. the part about expenses associated with car ownership is alright, but the part about metrocard types is not something I would say.

 

or maybe it is. it may require some more analysis. you cannot count on the kids riding for free. you have to assume the worst-case scenario to come up with a good counterargument, and the worst-case scenario would be that you have to pay for everybody. at this time I do not want to get into the additional analysis though. (if you want to do that, be may guest.) send me a PM if you want; it is something that I do want to figure out for both families with cars and families without cars.

 

the argument that it costs about as much for a family to travel by mass transit as it does for a family to travel by car is much easier to support if the family owns no car.

 

and no, not every family needs to own a car at any time at all to be prosperous. see an explanation of that below.

 

I cannot take this much anti-car attitude at one time.

 

this is false if you continue to participate in this discussion. what anti-car attitude? why are you talking about an anti-car attitude when we are merely (slightly ironic use of that word) trying to solve these insanely difficult problems caused by a lot of people who own/use cars and the amount of street space cars occupy, whether they are moving or stationary (assuming that, as you say, the cars themselves are not the problem)?

 

I would say I cannot take as much ignorance and apathy as the government and citizenry show when it comes to solving all the problems cars cause for buses or the problems caused by the government doing absolutely nothing to solve the problems the citizenry causes by using/owning cars and the amount of street space cars occupy, whether they are moving or stationary, since you say the cars themselves are not the problem, but if I said all that then I would be lying unless I...never mind the possible action I have in mind!

 

I live in Manhattan.  I have a car and use it to get from point A to point B because the nearest subway station is 15 minutes from my house.  Trips to various destinations across town takes me 15 minutes whereas it would take close to 40 minutes using the crosstown bus and then a connecting north-south bus.

 

so you cannot deal with it.

 

part of being a player in a mass transit revolution is dealing with stuff like that on mass transit (and avoiding car use, since each additional moving car on any bus street absolutely makes the buses on that bus street just a bit slower, and each additional moving car on any street crossing a bus street at grade has the potential to make the buses on that bus street just a bit slower) instead of staying away from it on account of the reasons you just gave there. if you do not want to be a player in this revolution, keep doing what you do. if you do want to be a player, I hope you have a real good way of being a real good player in this revolution and compensating for any problems caused by you owning and using a car.

 

not that it is wrong to own and using a car if you have a real good reason for it and never double park on a bus street. or park in a bus lane when it is in effect. or park in a bus stop. or block a hydrant at a near-side corner on a street where a bus runs. or violate other rules (unsafe driving, speeding, etc). none of this applies in emergency situations.

 

this goes for anybody. not just you.

 

Also keep in mind that using mass transit is expensive for families.  If a family of four wants to drive to a restaurant to eat, it costs $3.50 per hour at a munimeter, or free if they find a free spot, and the price of gas would be only a couple bucks, if even.  That same trip would cost that family of four $20 taking the subway/bus, take over twice the amount of time to travel, and there's absolutely no comfort at all.

 

this is assuming the family has a car! not every family needs a car to be prosperous (meaning: living in a nice/safe neighborhood, not having money problems or problems within the household, generally being able to do what it wants to do etc). I had a grand old time going back and forth about this with the people on city-data. oh what a fun 30-page thread that was...also see my response to Via G above.

 

It's people double parking and parking in bus lanes that causes the problems.

 

it is more than that. if I am to go along with "cars are not the problem," I shall have to say that "the problems the citizenry causes by using/owning cars and the amount of street space cars occupy, whether they are moving or stationary are the problems."

[BrooklynIRT]

why is it that my solutions get criticized so much by people who do not come up with solutions of their own? how about you come up with your own solutions so I can critique 'em, Gorgor? or peacemaker?

[qjtransitmaster]

why is it that my solutions get criticized so much by people who do not come up with solutions of their own? how about you come up with your own solutions so I can critique 'em, Gorgor? or peacemaker?

bobtehpanda had a solution of his own look at previous posts for street surface short distance transit it will work besides the B44 isn't slow enough a handful are not even slow at all these lines are B103, B7, Q11/21!!!! Shocking isn't it those are locals. Q44 Bx12 SBS Bx1 LTD, Q15, Q76 and even 77. 

[Gorgor]

why is it that my solutions get criticized so much by people who do not come up with solutions of their own? how about you come up with your own solutions so I can critique 'em, Gorgor? or peacemaker?

 

I'm sorry I should've made my ideas more clear. 

 

Specific to this topic, what I've gotten is that there are always cars double parked and parked in the bus lane along the B44 route that it would cause delays.  Simple solution is to station traffic agents there during the day to deter people from double parking, and give tickets to those that still double park.  If the NYPD puts many agents there just for a week it should scare people off that they'll think twice about double parking even if they don't see a traffic agent.  Bumping up the penalty for doing so won't necessarily help, but if the NYPD shows that they actually do enforce it even a measly $130 (or however much it is now) ticket is enough to get people to stop doing it, or at least do it less.

 

Like I've previously mentioned, the NYPD stationed a police car down the street of a no left turn sign that people constantly ignored, and pulled over cars that disobeyed the sign.  There was a police car there for at least a week, possibly even longer, and now it's very rare to see someone making a left turn there.

[BrooklynIRT]

just so you know there are no bus lanes along the B44 yet. they are coming, but are not there at the moment.

 

well, as I said before they are all about politics and I would not trust them to keep the agents posted wherever for 100 years or whatever. and the citizenry (including myself) would probably have something to say about money being used to pay officers to guarantee free-flowing bus streets forever while crimes need to be fought (not by the same officers; the point is that the same money that would be used to pay traffic agents is just as good for paying patrol persons).

 

QJT: solutions that have never been implemented before (in NYC) have to start somewhere. just b/c the B44 is "not slow enough" does not mean you cannot implement a solution there first.

 

also the solutions I have in mind (and have had in mind, some of which I have never even stated on the internet) are not for the B44 only and do not necessarily have to be implemented on the B44 first.

[Gorgor]

If the illegal parking problem is as bad as you say, the revenue from tickets surely will be greater than the cost needed to pay those officers.  I believe that a ticket for that is about $130, which means that if each officer only writes 3 tickets a day there should be no problem with money. 

[bobtehpanda]

just so you know there are no bus lanes along the B44 yet. they are coming, but are not there at the moment.

 

well, as I said before they are all about politics and I would not trust them to keep the agents posted wherever for 100 years or whatever. and the citizenry (including myself) would probably have something to say about money being used to pay officers to guarantee free-flowing bus streets forever while crimes need to be fought (not by the same officers; the point is that the same money that would be used to pay traffic agents is just as good for paying patrol persons).

 

QJT: solutions that have never been implemented before (in NYC) have to start somewhere. just b/c the B44 is "not slow enough" does not mean you cannot implement a solution there first.

 

also the solutions I have in mind (and have had in mind, some of which I have never even stated on the internet) are not for the B44 only and do not necessarily have to be implemented on the B44 first.

 

Well, of course the bus lanes aren't painted in yet - it's literally paint and line tape, which takes a few days to set up, so they'll probably put it in once the bus bulbs are close to all being done.

 

NYPD can't be trusted. That's why DOT installed bus lane cameras in the other SBS corridors, and why they're pushing for the speed cameras.

[qjtransitmaster]

just so you know there are no bus lanes along the B44 yet. they are coming, but are not there at the moment.

 

well, as I said before they are all about politics and I would not trust them to keep the agents posted wherever for 100 years or whatever. and the citizenry (including myself) would probably have something to say about money being used to pay officers to guarantee free-flowing bus streets forever while crimes need to be fought (not by the same officers; the point is that the same money that would be used to pay traffic agents is just as good for paying patrol persons).

 

QJT: solutions that have never been implemented before (in NYC) have to start somewhere. just b/c the B44 is "not slow enough" does not mean you cannot implement a solution there first.

 

also the solutions I have in mind (and have had in mind, some of which I have never even stated on the internet) are not for the B44 only and do not necessarily have to be implemented on the B44 first there are other corridors that separated bus lanes can work like on 10th and 9th aves for the M11 and ect. Madison buses are actually faster than I thought to be honest due to the 2 lane wide bus lane and I rarely see people intentionally violating it during rush hour yes shocking I know. Bobtehpanda already mentioned a starting transition plan that can work for the 1st phase with camera enforcement which can later generate revenue for grade separated busways where they might be needed. Busways would be best for long haul travel and would be best if used to boost the speeds of express buses and eventually their service levels to boot. Like a 2nd system to complement the subway network and even speed up outerborough travel for those not going to manhattan. In rare cases the BRT may need to be elevated over the corridor but it would decentralize and allow the network to become more flexible. Some like on the LIE it can take the form of separated HOV lanes with expanded hours similar to LA's silverline. MTA could use something like that for the I-278 corridor it would make travelling to SI and other areas of NYC so much quicker even without HOV there improved hours of QM downtown service means better connections to the BM lines and X28/27 the BQE is so slow if one wants to get to bay ridge from queens the quicker way would be QM bus to 5th ave for X27/28 than to bare the BQE hell.

B44 does NOT have to be first. there are o

[Acela Express]

In addition to my previous post about the bus bulb construction on Rogers Av (Ave D & Clarkson Av) - bulbs are being constructed at Church Av & Empire Blvd now.

[Acela Express]

44SBS start date 11/3/13

[BrooklynIRT]

Thanks Ace. Does anybody know if they plan on doing that utility work on Nostrand b/w Atlantic and Flatbush Aves that knice1187 mentioned anytime soon? http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/topic/22788-b44-selectbusservice/page-36?do=findComment&comment=633462

 

I just do not want them to take out the bus bulbs and then take forever to put them back; they should put them back as soon as they finish the utility work if they remove them..

[Mysterious2train]

 

DDC is working their way down the route.

[BrooklynIRT]

see also this, plenty of info here (one of the items on this page is what M2T posted):

 

http://www.cb14brooklyn.com/projects/nostrand-ave-select-bus-service-project/

[Acela Express]

The bus lanes have already been installed between Atlantic Av to Park Place, southbound on Nostrand Av....

[N6 Limited]

Will Utica ave be getting SBS?

[Mysterious2train]

Possibly, sometime down the road.