B44 +SelectBusService+

[titanium ally]

i cant wait to see the inspectors in action when the b44 select service start, especially it reaches flatbush and nostrand!! lol

[bobtehpanda]

Yep. And with zero enforcement of the laws, they get away with it.

 

Aren't SBS lanes camera-enforced nowadays?

[Metro CSW]

Aren't SBS lanes camera-enforced nowadays?

They should be by now.... could be wrong.....

[Culver]

Aren't SBS lanes camera-enforced nowadays?

The M15 SBS ones were supposed to start being enforced some time this century. If they are, they better be rolling in fines like crazy. Last time I was on that bus during enforced times, the bus lane was a joke. UPS trucks, delivery vans, NYPD (of course, above the law, classy), and everything in between were standing in the lane like any other day. This was about two weeks ago, so maybe they hadn't started yet.

[NYCtrainfan01]

Aren't SBS lanes camera-enforced nowadays?

 

The Bx12 +SBS+ is supposedly... Not sure about the others...

[bobtehpanda]

The M15 SBS ones were supposed to start being enforced some time this century. If they are, they better be rolling in fines like crazy. Last time I was on that bus during enforced times, the bus lane was a joke. UPS trucks, delivery vans, NYPD (of course, above the law, classy), and everything in between were standing in the lane like any other day. This was about two weeks ago, so maybe they hadn't started yet.

 

I know that at one point, they cracked down on double parking/illegal use of the bus lane with actual police officers, and then some politicians started complaining that NYPD was being too aggressive with the ticketing

[Culver]

I know that at one point, they cracked down on double parking/illegal use of the bus lane with actual police officers, and then some politicians started complaining that NYPD was being too aggressive with the ticketing

Ah of course. How DARE they penalize people for breaking the law. Ugh.

[Interested Rider]

With the artics now appearing regularly on the B/44 route every day, I feel that I must comment on the previous posts concerning the B/44 Select Bus operation which is supposed to take place in the last  part of the year.

 

I was wrong that the artics will cause problems making the turns at Avenue U. While I have not seen the artics making the turn at that location, I have been told by all concerned that there have been no problems. I may not like them but the buses are now operating on the B/44.

 

For those members who want to see the artics in service, try between 7:15 AM and 8:15 AM at Avenue X on a school day. Today  I observed five artics during that time period operating in both directions. The number of buses passing  the location during that time is quite large as there is a B/36 and B/44 buses almost every minute.

 

The bus stops at Avenues U (in front of the bank) & X have been marked already and the stops are being lengthened. What happens next is up to them. One or two parking spots are being taken to allow for more room.

 

My opposition to the B/44  Select Bus Service has not changed and I feel that the money could have been better spent on either a B/41 Flatbush Avenue or Utica Avenue select bus route. As others have noted these are far superior candidates for the service as compared with the B/44. In reading postings on Bus Chat, I note that there is possible solution to the "bus bunching problem"  being tried in the Bronx first and I feel that it would improve bus service on the B/44 more than this boondoggle.

 

George Santayana said "he who forgets history is doomed to repeat it" and I must add "ignorance of history is no excuse". As one who is not afraid to criticize the MTA, I am also not afraid to praise them when they are right.

When the B/44 first instituted limited service many years ago, there were stops at Avenue R and Avenue U and riders boarding before Avenue U had to transfer for Avenue S. The limited Avenue S stop  which is located one block south of Avenue R was added soon afterwards. The reason was that Avenue S is the location of a major medical center that many riders had to visit and it made no sense to change buses at Avenue U coming from Knapp Street. Continium Health Partners (formerly HIP) is located at that location and the MTA recognized it by adding a  limited stop there. This location will become more important as Obamacare is coming on board next year. It is the reason that the MTA has provided for local service from Knapp Street when SBS will be implemented to make sure that those of us who live south of Avenue U will have access to this and other locations.

 

The idea to extend the B/44 Select Bus to the Sheepshead Bay Station also indicates ignorance. When the 1978 route changes were implemented, Nostrand Avenue became a prime location for the dollar vans as the B/36 service was a joke. The bus stops had wall to wall vans and the MTA cut bus service on the B/36 and kept on cutting bus service. It took a generation for the route to come back and the cars to disappear. Recently the MTA has added bus service in the morning on the B/36 as it recognized the errors of the past. Adding artics to the Sheepshead Bay Station hurts the Coney Island section as they too are dependent on more frequent bus service which the MTA has added. In speaking with others in this community, the words that I hear constantly is the need for more frequent service. To me artics to the Sheepshead Bay Station represents an opportunity by the MTA  bean counters to justify reducing service along the entire B/36 route and this extension would be their excuse. History will be repeating itself and then we are back to square one again.

 

 

[limitednyc]

With the artics now appearing regularly on the B/44 route every day, I feel that I must comment on the previous posts concerning the B/44 Select Bus operation which is supposed to take place in the last  part of the year.

 

I was wrong that the artics will cause problems making the turns at Avenue U. While I have not seen the artics making the turn at that location, I have been told by all concerned that there have been no problems. I may not like them but the buses are now operating on the B/44.

 

For those members who want to see the artics in service, try between 7:15 AM and 8:15 AM at Avenue X on a school day. Today  I observed five artics during that time period operating in both directions. The number of buses passing  the location during that time is quite large as there is a B/36 and B/44 buses almost every minute.

 

The bus stops at Avenues U (in front of the bank) & X have been marked already and the stops are being lengthened. What happens next is up to them. One or two parking spots are being taken to allow for more room.

 

My opposition to the B/44  Select Bus Service has not changed and I feel that the money could have been better spent on either a B/41 Flatbush Avenue or Utica Avenue select bus route. As others have noted these are far superior candidates for the service as compared with the B/44. In reading postings on Bus Chat, I note that there is possible solution to the "bus bunching problem"  being tried in the Bronx first and I feel that it would improve bus service on the B/44 more than this boondoggle.

 

George Santayana said "he who forgets history is doomed to repeat it" and I must add "ignorance of history is no excuse". As one who is not afraid to criticize the MTA, I am also not afraid to praise them when they are right.

When the B/44 first instituted limited service many years ago, there were stops at Avenue R and Avenue U and riders boarding before Avenue U had to transfer for Avenue S. The limited Avenue S stop  which is located one block south of Avenue R was added soon afterwards. The reason was that Avenue S is the location of a major medical center that many riders had to visit and it made no sense to change buses at Avenue U coming from Knapp Street. Continium Health Partners (formerly HIP) is located at that location and the MTA recognized it by adding a  limited stop there. This location will become more important as Obamacare is coming on board next year. It is the reason that the MTA has provided for local service from Knapp Street when SBS will be implemented to make sure that those of us who live south of Avenue U will have access to this and other locations.

 

The idea to extend the B/44 Select Bus to the Sheepshead Bay Station also indicates ignorance. When the 1978 route changes were implemented, Nostrand Avenue became a prime location for the dollar vans as the B/36 service was a joke. The bus stops had wall to wall vans and the MTA cut bus service on the B/36 and kept on cutting bus service. It took a generation for the route to come back and the cars to disappear. Recently the MTA has added bus service in the morning on the B/36 as it recognized the errors of the past. Adding artics to the Sheepshead Bay Station hurts the Coney Island section as they too are dependent on more frequent bus service which the MTA has added. In speaking with others in this community, the words that I hear constantly is the need for more frequent service. To me artics to the Sheepshead Bay Station represents an opportunity by the MTA  bean counters to justify reducing service along the entire B/36 route and this extension would be their excuse. History will be repeating itself and then we are back to square one again.

you are right on all points. the only thing u forgot was the stupid routing for the cental part of the sbs line( via rodgers ave instend of new york ave) .

[Interested Rider]

The B/44 should remain as is going northbound on New York Avenue and southbound on Nostrand Avenue. The Rogers Avenue route serves no purpose whatsoever and is why I referred to the entire B/44 SBS thing as a boondaggle. Who is going to walk the additional two long blocks from Rogers Avenue to New York Avenue to get to Kings County Hospital and then walk the additional distance to any of the buildings? Just think taxpayer money was used to come up with it? 

[BrooklynIRT]

I highly doubt that "the Rogers Avenue route serves no purpose whatsoever."

 

and there is a subway on Nostrand Ave and still a local bus on New York Ave for people who do not want to get off on Rogers Ave to go to Kings County.

[checkmatechamp13]

The Rogers Avenue route serves no purpose whatsoever and is why I referred to the entire B/44 SBS thing as a boondaggle.

 

I'm not saying I agree or disagree, but the purpose is to avoid having to make additional turns. Instead of 90 degree turns from Nostrand-Farragut-NY-Fulton-Bedford, you have smoother turns from Nostrand-Flatbush-Rogers-Bedford. It benefits people traveling between points north of Fulton, and south of Flatbush (whatever that number may be).

[BrooklynIRT]

more people live near Rogers Ave (where the housing is denser overall) than near New York Ave north of Farragut, there is more detached housing near New York Ave, and there are probably more vehicle owners and more personal vehicles per family near New York Ave. there is also a lot more commercial property on Rogers Ave than on New York Ave.

[Acela Express]

 

I'm not saying I agree or disagree, but the purpose is to avoid having to make additional turns. Instead of 90 degree turns from Nostrand-Farragut-NY-Fulton-Bedford, you have smoother turns from Nostrand-Flatbush-Rogers-Bedford. It benefits people traveling between points north of Fulton, and south of Flatbush (whatever that number may be).

That, and the fact NY Ave is a single lane northbound, which ties up the B44 in traffic much during rush hour and during the day in general. It kills service when traffic is backed up from Church to Tilden, and then you dealing with the local hospital traffic approaching Clarkson Av.. The LTD service gets delayed, but considerably faster than local (which is murder so to speak).

[BrooklynBus]

I heard that the artics cannot make the required 90 degree turn into Farragut. (Don't know how true that is.) which why they chose Rogers. But without modifying te B49 or replacing lost service on New York, there will be problems.

[Quill Depot]

In my experience, a non-SBS (B49) route and an SBS will run okay together but for maximum efficiency for +SBS+ that is not a very good solution, because it would back up uptown buses. You could run B49's up Bedford and near it's northern terminus, have Manhattan beach-bound buses run down Franklin from Fulton to Dean.

[Trainmaster5]

In my experience, a non-SBS (B49) route and an SBS will run okay together but for maximum efficiency for +SBS+ that is not a very good solution, because it would back up uptown buses. You could run B49's up Bedford and near it's northern terminus, have Manhattan beach-bound buses run down Franklin from Fulton to Dean.

IIRC, and don't quote me on this, the reason B49s weren't sent n/b on Bedford Avenue when the one way street system was instituted was because Bedford Ave was considered a residential street whereas Rogers Ave was considered more commercial at the time. The B44 n/b was relegated to New York Avenue to better serve Kings County and Downstate instead of using Rogers Avenue n/b. I lived in Lefferts Gardens at the time and nobody wanted a n/b and s/b B49 on Bedford Avenue at that time. For that matter nobody wanted any bus service on Bedford in that area back then. Bedford Ave was prime real estate compared to Rogers or Nostrand Avenues back then. In fact the only commercial establishments on Bedford Avenue between Empire Blvd and Flatbush Ave that I can remember were Lafayette Radio, an auto brake shop, and the side entrance to Sears Beverly Road store. One argument I do remember was that if the B49 used Bedford Avenue in both directions it would amount to overkill, with the B41 and B44 each being one block over east and west in that area which was the other reason ,beside the hospitals one, why the n/b B44 was given it's New York Avenue path instead of the Rogers Avenue route. Just my recollection. Carry on.

[BrooklynIRT]

I heard that the artics cannot make the required 90 degree turn into Farragut. (Don't know how true that is.) which why they chose Rogers. But without modifying te B49 or replacing lost service on New York, there will be problems.

 

MTA told you a bald-faced lie. Acela stated the Artics can make that turn; if they could not MTA would not have run Artics on the shuttle buses that have gone up New York Ave in the past.

 

I am not ready to say there will be problems just yet. if this plan posed such a problem, I think the affected persons would have said something a very long time ago. they have had like 2-3 years; during which there were several open houses, presentations, flyers, and other information available on the internet; to find out. furthermore if any locals were really concerned about it they would have made a concerted effort to alert their neighbors to this plan. and plenty of business owners, at least some of whom have to be locals, know about it.

 

I will say that perhaps they should have given some consideration to changing this plan somewhat (while keeping the B44 SBS on Rogers Ave) before thinking about new bus lines in other parts of Brooklyn.

 

In my experience, a non-SBS (B49) route and an SBS will run okay together but for maximum efficiency for +SBS+ that is not a very good solution, because it would back up uptown buses. You could run B49's up Bedford and near it's northern terminus, have Manhattan beach-bound buses run down Franklin from Fulton to Dean.

 

I do not understand.

[LTA1992]

It's weird seeing the LFSAs on the B44 in person. What could have been a crowded 40 footer is now an uncrowded 60 footer. Around Noon anyway.

[BrooklynBus]

MTA told you a bald-faced lie. Acela stated the Artics can make that turn; if they could not MTA would not have run Artics on the shuttle buses that have gone up New York Ave in the past.

 

I am not ready to say there will be problems just yet. if this plan posed such a problem, I think the affected persons would have said something a very long time ago. they have had like 2-3 years; during which there were several open houses, presentations, flyers, and other information available on the internet; to find out. furthermore if any locals were really concerned about it they would have made a concerted effort to alert their neighbors to this plan. and plenty of business owners, at least some of whom have to be locals, know about it.

 

I will say that perhaps they should have given some consideration to changing this plan somewhat (while keeping the B44 SBS on Rogers Ave) before thinking about new bus lines in other parts of Brooklyn.

 

Most people have no idea that SBS is coming and won't find out until a week before when signs are posted on the buses. That's also what happened with the 2010 service cuts. The meetings and open houses mean nothing. No more than 50 people attend those meetings and thousands ride the B44 everyday. The SBS routes don't get publicity until they start operating.

 

How much do you want to bet that passengers will be very upset when they find out all those limited stops are being eliminated and they will have to now take the local and changing for the SBS will cost them another fare if tey already transfer. Avenue R pasengers will be especialy pissed to find their bus service cut in half. It is already too late to request additional stops according to what the MTA told the CB 15 chair.

[checkmatechamp13]

Avenue R pasengers will be especialy pissed to find their bus service cut in half. It is already too late to request additional stops according to what the MTA told the CB 15 chair.

 

For what it's worth, they added a stop at (I believe) Cedar Avenue on the Bx12 +SBS+ after it started.

[BrooklynIRT]

Well as long as you realize that there were ways for people to find out and whoever really wanted to get something done about it could have aggressively gone and informed their neighbors about these changes, it is all good. MTA and DOT did inform all of the affected CBs that the northbound route would be shifted. How is this the same as the 2010 service cuts? Were there meetings and flyers related to those for 2-3 years before the cuts happened?

 

As I said before it is not uncommon for a n.b local bus to bypass a n.b limited bus before reaching Junction even if the n.b local bus leaves "U" a little after the limited did. As far as speed goes, there is basically no difference between the two services at the moment. The number of skipped stops planned makes sense as far as trying to make it so that the buses can more easily keep up with traffic signals on a bidirectional road with unsynchronized (and rather sucky and annoying) signals. Also at "L" and "R" fewer board the ltd than at Knapp St, Emmons-Nostrand, "X", "U", KH, and Flatbush. May not be fewer than at Emmons-Nostrand all the time, but definitely fewer than at the other stops all the time.

 

It will be a problem as far as frequency goes, but I see where they are coming from because of the signals and because of the fact that eliminating both "R" and "S" could put an end to ltd/SBS buses having to wait at KH for the red signal to become green so that the traffic queue can clear and they can get into the bus stop, only to have to sit for another red and wait for the green again. Fewer bus stops between "U" and KH could mean significantly fewer vehicles in front of you when you reach KH, so you do not have to wait for traffic to clear just so you can enter the bus stop.

 

But to be honest I am almost indifferent about additional stops causing such situations, so I just look at it like, whatever happens, happens. If enough people want those stops in Midwood or SB back, hopefully they get them back. If not, let it be, as long as it did not prevent ridership from increasing or whatever. Fares are another story and I cannot really comment on them. if you were referring to the deleted stops at "R", "L", Bergen, Gates, and Myrtle, I would say that in most cases those who transfer between another bus and the 44 SBS have several alternate routes: those coming from kings plaza would just have to use the 41 or Q35 to reach the 44 instead of the 2, 9, 41, or Q35. The wait time does not increase much if you have to cut out the 2 and 9. In northern Brooklyn, the 54, 38, 52, 26, 25, and/or are all pretty close together in Downtown, Fort Greene, and/or Ridgewood in terms of walking distance.

 

On the unidirectional roads the signals are much better, but I can still see where some stops need to be cut in order to allow the bus to keep up with signals as much as possible. It is quite a trade off since people lose stops, but I think it will work out anyway.

[BrooklynIRT]

In the part near the end I was referring to those who want to get from Downtown, Ridgewood, Fort Greene, and other areas in which the lines I mentioned run close enough together, to Nostrand for the SBS.

[BrooklynBus]

I am not saying that it is not a good idea to eliminate so many limited stops. I just question eliminating a stop when the distance between SBS stops will be a mile or more.

 

For example, on Monday I'm going to Staten Island to pick up my new car. The closest S79 stop is about a half mile from where I need to get off which means I probably will have to wait for an S78 that will balance out the time I saved on the SBS. From the map, it looks like its over a mile between SBS stops at that point. In this situation, you can change for the S78 for the same fare. On Nostrand Avenue it might cost you another fare and if you now take the SBS and walk to Avenue R your trip will now take longer using the local than it did when you used the Limited.

[Acela Express]

They've almost finished constructing the bus bulb at Church & Nostrand Aves.

And as I went down Rogers Ave, they're almost finished the bulbs at Ave D and Clarkson Ave