B44 +SelectBusService+

[Acela Express]

Well the Avenue X trips could be the ones that end at Avenue X by Sheepshead Bay H.S. I can assure you that the ridership to Knapp St isn't that high at all.  Of course you have that nursing home that's a generator, but still.  If anything I'd say it's because the B4 runs like sh*t down there that's why they have more B44s going down there as an alternative.

The Avenue X trips are for the Sheepshead Bay HS that's located east of Nostrand Avenue on Avenue X. There's also runs in the afternoon (one of them I used to do back in September pick) to assist the LTDs coming from Emmons Avenue during rush hour.

 

And I can tell you that ridership below Avenue U is warranted enough for all LTDs (headway is about 7-8 mins) to head into Emmons Avenue, especially during rush hour. Remember there's a number of trip generators south of Avenue U - the nursing homes, school, the movie theater along with the restaurants along Emmons Avenue. Now of course, if we were talking about the B46 headways (rush hour headways 1-2 mins), then we can talk about cutting back half the LTDs to Avenue U...

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Perhaps, but there's probably more ridership below Avenue U than there is above Flushing Av, going by service levels. Namely, on weekdays, you have every other Limited trip [along with every local trip] ending at Flushing Av, but on the other end you have all Limited service ending at Knapp St, and in the morning you have local trips starting at Avenue X [i have no idea what that's about, though.] 

Now that I think about it, when I went to school over there, there were morning trips that ended at Avenue X for the school kids.  Having those buses deadhead to Knapp St would be pointless when there is sufficient service down there and having them deadhead back to the depot is  pointless too at this point so might as well put them in service since I would imagine that ridership going towards Williamsburg is still pretty decent at that time of the morning.

 

wanna know why ridership north of flushing is not so high look above you and stop whining it's called drumroll please !!!!! 

Why are you bringing that up for? All I said was that if they can't justify so many buses going to Williamsburg then I don't see how they can justify so many buses going to Knapp St.  But since you brought it up, someone on here a while ago mentioned what a PITA it was to get buses going to Williamsburg on another Flatbush line and I would imagine it's a similar situation with the B44.... A lot of truncated buses on those Flatbush lines.

 

The Avenue X trips are for the Sheepshead Bay HS that's located east of Nostrand Avenue on Avenue X. There's also runs in the afternoon (one of them I used to do back in September pick) to assist the LTDs coming from Emmons Avenue during rush hour.

 

 

And I can tell you that ridership below Avenue U is warranted enough for all LTDs (headway is about 7-8 mins) to head into Emmons Avenue, especially during rush hour. Remember there's a number of trip generators south of Avenue U - the nursing homes, school, the movie theater along with the restaurants along Emmons Avenue. Now of course, if we were talking about the B46 headways (rush hour headways 1-2 mins), then we can talk about cutting back half the LTDs to Avenue U...

I'm aware of that because I used to go that H.S. but Mysterious mentioned Avenue X trips going back towards Williamsburg, which I don't recall seeing in the mornings, but if they do have them I could understand why.  I'm also aware of the trippers too that you talk about, though I never had a need for them since I lived in Sheepshead Bay and the B36 was usually my bus or I would walk or take the B44 to the B4 depending on where I was going or what I was doing.

 

As for the ridership below Avenue U, during rush hours I would agree particularly because of the nursing home, as that first stop can be a big generator of the ridership over there, but not all day per se because at a certain time those buses aren't packed like that going down there.  Aside from that nursing home and the movie theatre, a lot of folks over by Knapp drive anyway, so I think 10 minute headways would suffice just the same during off peak hours in the mid afternoon particularly.  2-3 minutes isn't a huge difference anyway.

[Acela Express]

Why are you bringing that up for? All I said was that if they can't justify so many buses going to Williamsburg then I don't see how they can justify so many buses going to Knapp St.  But since you brought it up, someone on here a while ago mentioned what a PITA it was to get buses going to Williamsburg on another Flatbush line and I would imagine it's a similar situation with the B44.... A lot of truncated buses on those Flatbush lines.

I can tell you this - ridership CAN pickup going to and from Williamsburg, but that's during the day mostly. However, not enough to warrant all LTDs going there. Another factor is the traffic along Bedford & Lee Avenues that can hold up the buses thus reducing LTD service reliability. 

 

On the 46, every other LTD short-turns at Dekalb Avenue, mainly because of Broadway congestion. You can't send all the LTD buses up to the bridge and when the buses get caught in traffic, you have a service issue now where all local buses will be taking the hit coming out of Dekalb Avenue going south along Malcolm X Blvd & Utica Avenue. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I can tell you this - ridership CAN pickup going to and from Williamsburg, but that's during the day mostly. However, not enough to warrant all LTDs going there. Another factor is the traffic along Bedford & Lee Avenues that can hold up the buses thus reducing LTD service reliability. 

 

On the 46, every other LTD short-turns at Dekalb Avenue, mainly because of Broadway congestion. You can't send all the LTD buses up to the bridge and when the buses get caught in traffic, you have a service issue now where all local buses will be taking the hit coming out of Dekalb Avenue going south along Malcolm X Blvd & Utica Avenue. 

Well of course... That's like having ALL of the M101s make the trip to 8th street... Sure there's ridership south of 23rd street, but not enough to justify all M101s making the full trip.  Same thing with the B46 and B44 so they short turn them.  As you said, it would be overkill in terms of service and it would make service potentially bad for the passengers along the rest of the route.

[Mysterious2train]

I don't know for myself, I'm just going by the B44 timetable which shows trips from Avenue X going back up in service

 

Southbound AM Rush

Northbound AM Rush

 

 

I'm aware of that because I used to go that H.S. but Mysterious mentioned Avenue X trips going back towards Williamsburg, which I don't recall seeing in the mornings, but if they do have them I could understand why.  I'm also aware of the trippers too that you talk about, though I never had a need for them since I lived in Sheepshead Bay and the B36 was usually my bus or I would walk or take the B44 to the B4 depending on where I was going or doing.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I don't know for myself, I'm just going by the B44 timetable which shows trips from Avenue X going back up in service

 

Southbound AM Rush

Northbound AM Rush

http://mta.info/nyct/bus/schedule/bkln/b044cur.pdf

 

I've looked at the schedule now... Makes perfect sense... The reason is because you have the limited stop buses coming from Sheepshead Bay which make all of those local stops up to Avenue U anyway, so it would be overkill in terms of service to have those local stop buses also starting at Knapp St.  If they terminate at or near Avenue X already in the mornings, no point having them deadhead over to Knapp to start the trip back to Williamsburg.  The ridership just isn't there to sustain that much service past Avenue X and this is I know from years of living in Sheepshead Bay and frequenting the area.  Hell the limiteds from Sheepshead Bay run about every 3 - 7 minutes in the morning and afternoon which is more than enough service...

[checkmatechamp13]

wanna know why ridership north of flushing is not so high look above you and stop whining it's called drumroll please !!!!! 

 

On what planet does the parallel the B44? Last I checked, the didn't go down Bedford/Lee Avenue.

 

That's the B46 that parallels the , and the short-turns end at DeKalb Avenue, not Flushing Avenue, because the last time I checked, Malcolm X Blvd doesn't intersect Flushing Avenue.

 

Aside from that, it's not going to be quicker to get off the bus, climb the stairs, wait for the train, and then climb back down, versus just staying on the bus, if you're just going a couple of stops along the line.

[limitednyc]

wait til the ta converts the line for artic operastion in the spring. we wilse if there willbe loc trip to/froon avex ?

[Transitfan007]

Saw a NovaBus LFS Articulated on the B44 line this morning heading north bound.  It did not have Flatbush Depot stickers, looks like a MabStoa bus.  I guess is testing SBS already!

[Acela Express]

Saw a NovaBus LFS Articulated on the B44 line this morning heading north bound.  It did not have Flatbush Depot stickers, looks like a MabStoa bus.  I guess is testing SBS already!

The bus belongs to Flatbush, but some haven't been converted to the proper decals as of yet - so you'll still see a few with the Michael Quill logos.

 

BTW, there's about 11 LFSAs on the 44 as of this morning.

[MHV9218]

11 out there? I gotta make my way over to Bed-Stuy one of these days and catch one of these.

 

So I take it the union came around on this? If they're still fighting, sure sounds like they're losing.

[jgood6195]

The bus belongs to Flatbush, but some haven't been converted to the proper decals as of yet - so you'll still see a few with the Michael Quill logos.

 

BTW, there's about 11 LFSAs on the 44 as of this morning.

Really? Have the rest of the LFSAs started arriving yet?

[MHV9218]

No. 

[knice1187]

11 out there? I gotta make my way over to Bed-Stuy one of these days and catch one of these.

So I take it the union came around on this? If they're still fighting, sure sounds like they're losing.

The union said two buses on the b41. Lost tires last week while in service. Something was wrong with some bearings or something like that so the mta sent out 50 rts to get checked out. That's the reason why the artics are on the 44 right now. They claim we dont have enough buses to make service right now.

[nuyorican]

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[qjtransitmaster]

On what planet does the parallel the B44? Last I checked, the didn't go down Bedford/Lee Avenue.

 

That's the B46 that parallels the , and the short-turns end at DeKalb Avenue, not Flushing Avenue, because the last time I checked, Malcolm X Blvd doesn't intersect Flushing Avenue.

 

Aside from that, it's not going to be quicker to get off the bus, climb the stairs, wait for the train, and then climb back down, versus just staying on the bus, if you're just going a couple of stops along the line.

my bad I got it confused. I did not read his post damn ohh well.

[BrooklynBus]

http://mta.info/nyct/bus/schedule/bkln/b044cur.pdf

 

I've looked at the schedule now... Makes perfect sense... The reason is because you have the limited stop buses coming from Sheepshead Bay which make all of those local stops up to Avenue U anyway, so it would be overkill in terms of service to have those local stop buses also starting at Knapp St.  If they terminate at or near Avenue X already in the mornings, no point having them deadhead over to Knapp to start the trip back to Williamsburg.  The ridership just isn't there to sustain that much service past Avenue X and this is I know from years of living in Sheepshead Bay and frequenting the area.  Hell the limiteds from Sheepshead Bay run about every 3 - 7 minutes in the morning and afternoon which is more than enough service...

 

You are right. Sending both locals and limited to Knapp Street would be overkill, but that is what they are proposing and is precisely one reason I am against their plan. It is being proposed that way in order so as not to have every stop south of Avenue X be equipped with a fare machine.  That's why I proposed only sending the locals to Knapp and send the Limited to Sheepshead Bay Station where they could supplement the overcrowded B36s instead of having them operate to Knapp and carry only 6 passengers or less at the headways being proposed.

 

Another plan could be to extend the Limiteds one stop running them direct to Kingsborough College from Emmons Avenue when school is open. But the terminal would have to be enlarged or a new one built on campus to do that.

 

The current SBS which does not take into account the B49 would provide a glut of service on Rogers Avenue, is just a poorly thought out route. 

[Acela Express]

As some of you guys have probably already noticed, they've started the reconstruction of Nostrand Avenue between Flushing & Atlantic Avenues a few weeks ago, and it's all part of the program to get BRT44 (SBS) up and running with bus bulb installations, repaving the roadways, sidewalk repairs, etc.. All can view the "notice" here (work: HWK1129) - http://www.nyc.gov/html/ddc/downloads/pdf/brochures/HWK1129.pdf

 

Then go to page 11 of the DOT brochure of Nostrand SBS and you'll see it's relation - http://www.nyc.gov/html/brt/downloads/pdf/2012-06-nostrand-sbs-cac5-slides.pdf

 

And I found this link pretty interesting - http://www.transalt.org/files/resources/otherreports/subwaysidewalk/techmemo3/Brooklyn/Nostrand%20Avenue.pdf

According to a survey taken in the 1990s, 89% of subway riders actually walk to the Nostrand Avenue subway station, while 5% arrived by bus. So in my argument about SBS going down Rogers/Bedford, forcing folks to walk over 2 blocks to the station may not be as bad I thought, but then again, times have changed, and ridership has grown since the 90s.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I have yet to see any of the curbs done in the way that they're showing in these photos... See page 1 where the first B44 is shown...

 

http://www.nyc.gov/html/brt/downloads/pdf/2012-06-nostrand-sbs-cac5-slides.pdf

 

I noticed the same thing with the M34SBS proposal. The photos show sections of the curb being cut out so as to provide a spot for buses to pull in and out of without being interrupted I guess.  Have they actually done this at any SBS stop??

[Transitfan007]

I have yet to see any of the curbs done in the way that they're showing in these photos... See page 1 where the first B44 is shown...

 

http://www.nyc.gov/html/brt/downloads/pdf/2012-06-nostrand-sbs-cac5-slides.pdf

 

I noticed the same thing with the M34SBS proposal. The photos show sections of the curb being cut out so as to provide a spot for buses to pull in and out of without being interrupted I guess.  Have they actually done this at any SBS stop??

There is no way in hell this would work for Nostrand.  Can you image what a traffic nightmare this would cause during the rush, let alone any day and time of the week.  It's already bad as it is now, bad idea!

[Via Garibaldi 8]

There is no way in hell this would work for Nostrand.  Can you image what a traffic nightmare this would cause during the rush, let alone any day and time of the week.  It's already bad as it is now, bad idea!

That's why I'm asking the question... Why do they keep drawing the sidewalks like that when in reality it would be unrealistic to have them like that in just about most areas of the city?  I don't see that being practical on 34th street even in places where there are wide sidewalks and I don't see it being practical elsewhere so I'm just trying to get what's the point of them laying out the sidewalks like that in their proposals...

[Mysterious2train]

The M15 is supposed to get several bus bulbs [12 or something] but as far as I know only one has actually been built, at the 1st Av and 2nd St stop. The M60 and Bx41 are planned to get some too. Seems like the DOT really wants to encourage Select Bus ridership and cut down of traffic a little on those streets (along with the invasive offset bus lanes, of course)

[BrooklynIRT]

There is no way in hell this would work for Nostrand.  Can you image what a traffic nightmare this would cause during the rush, let alone any day and time of the week.  It's already bad as it is now, bad idea!

 

nightmare? the only nightmare that exists on that road is the double parking that occurs there every single day and effectively leaves the road with the same exact capacity that it would have with the proposed configuration (which includes "invasive" offset bus lanes) assuming that not a single vehicle ever parked illegally on that road after the configuration were changed. LOL

 

 

You are right. Sending both locals and limited to Knapp Street would be overkill, but that is what they are proposing and is precisely one reason I am against their plan. It is being proposed that way in order so as not to have every stop south of Avenue X be equipped with a fare machine.  That's why I proposed only sending the locals to Knapp and send the Limited to Sheepshead Bay Station where they could supplement the overcrowded B36s instead of having them operate to Knapp and carry only 6 passengers or less at the headways being proposed.

or just short-turn every other local bus. also you may want to observe and/r analyze Knapp St ridership some more

[XcelsiorBoii4888]

Lol the way the MTA makes the pictures

"oh the SBS will pull up so it doesnt have to pull in and out of traffic" "bus bulbs for easy boarding", the local will pull into the curb" LOL

and your talking about 1 lane for traffic?? Naa son...cars/vans will be all UP in the bus lanes...

[Culver]

Lol the way the MTA makes the pictures

"oh the SBS will pull up so it doesnt have to pull in and out of traffic" "bus bulbs for easy boarding", the local will pull into the curb" LOL

and your talking about 1 lane for traffic?? Naa son...cars/vans will be all UP in the bus lanes...

Yep. And with zero enforcement of the laws, they get away with it.