Cars 9848-9850 horribly tagged up

[SubwayGuy]

Heh, just to think that one Arnine, BU or Lo-V motor weighs a bit more than even a full-size SUV.

 

Yup, the one thing you know who can't toss in the back of his truck and "alley oop" up to the north.

[INDman]

Yup, the one thing you know who can't toss in the back of his truck and "alley oop" up to the north.

 

Are you sure about that? He's moved heavier.

[SubwayGuy]

Are you sure about that? He's moved heavier.

 

Well....He can handle it, but his truck can't.

[INDman]

Well....He can handle it, but his truck can't.

 

Depends on what truck he takes (rents).

[BroadwayBuffer]

Yup, the one thing you know who can't toss in the back of his truck and "alley oop" up to the north.

 

Could always just tie it to the back of some RR equipment... that'll at least get it the bulk of the way without much hassle. (:

[Eric B]

The 42's also have a carbon steel frame. It's only the R32's that were all stainless.

 

You two are just speaking to a person who thinks they know it all, when in fact, that person knows nothing. :tdown:

 

Only the R32s were pure stainless steel, the slants/mods (from what I was told) and R42s had some pretty bad rusting issues inside and out.

That's what I always thought. I was just surprised to see people suggesting these other cars were pure stainless steel, and no one challenging it, and wondered where they got that info.

[LRG]

Only the R32s were pure stainless steel, the slants/mods (from what I was told) and R42s had some pretty bad rusting issues inside and out.

 

I've also heard stories about the Slants' bonnets ready to fall off the car body and they would not have made it through the summer had they been kept in service.

[SubwayGuy]

That's what I always thought. I was just surprised to see people suggesting these other cars were pure stainless steel, and no one challenging it, and wondered where they got that info.

 

The same place most railfans get there info. Their imagination.

[Chrystie Street Cut]

 

I agree.When you touch the R160 sheet metal,It doesnt feel like sheet metal like on a R68.It feels like brushed steel.The last real Stainless steel cars are the R68 and R62s.

You want real stainless steel go look at the 32s. Those are real trains.

[St Louis Car 09]

You want real stainless steel go look at the 32s. Those are real trains.

YES!!! Budd put some beautiful stainless steel on their trains.In some cases you would spot An R32 looking like it just came back from being GOH`D

[T to Dyre Avenue]

I doubt they will before age 20. The car with the shortest lifespan is this.

 

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?26407

 

If they do people are going to literally start taking a s*** on the . They bought more then two billion dollars in subway cars in five years just for them to retire 15-20 years from now? Who's going to come up with the money to buy replacements?

 

Blame Mayor LaGuardia in the 40's and the newly-formed NYCTA in the 50's for the Bluebirds not making it past 20 years. Originally, the BMT placed an order for 50 Bluebird sets on top of the prototype that had already been running on the BMT system. But after unification, LaGuardia's Board of Transportation took delivery of just five completed Bluebird sets and canceled the rest of the order, making the six existing Bluebird sets orphans. It's such a shame that he did that, because those were probably the nicest subway cars to run on NYC subway tracks with their blue exteriors and mohair seats. You'll never see anything like that on NYC subway tracks again. And who knows, they might have lasted into the 70's or even the early 80's if the City hadn't decided to withdraw them from service so early on. Then again, I hate to think of what the a**hole vandals would have done to them, if they were still running in the 70's and 80's.

 

As for the R160s, Transit better do all they can to keep every single one of them in service for at least three decades. They make up a significant portion of the B Division fleet and they are in permanent 4- and 5-car sets. To have to replace that many cars in 15-20 years could spell real trouble for the if its financial shape doesn't improve from what it is today.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

Yep, this is why the needs to go back to Bombardeir.

Bombardier? You mean the same Bombardier that messed up on the R142 order and nearly got the R62A order yanked? Bombardier may make some innovative products overseas, such as the multiple-unit AGC trains in France which are capable of operating off of catenary wires and diesel-power in the same units and the Talent EMUs and DMUs which run in Germany, Austria and Norway as well as on Ottawa, Canada's O-Train. But they seem to have a problem getting their NYC subway cars to work well without significant modification. Kawasaki's people literally had to show Bombardier's people how to built the R62A cars and even had to provide them with some car shells back in the 80's. The Redbirds had to stay in service longer than expected because of multiple mechanical problems that caused the R142s to be sidelined for much of 2001 and early 2002 until the problems were fixed. That's why the MTA disqualified Bombardier from the R143 and R160 orders as well as the M8 order for Metro-North. Is Bombardier even on the radar for the R179 order?

 

I'm not saying Bombardier is a bad company that builds crappy trains. But their track record in New York is not great. It could be that asks for too much when it puts out subway car orders and that it's very hard for most car-builders to deliver exactly what the wants. Sometimes they change their minds on the specifications after putting out the order to tenders. Bombardier won an order for the new 5000-series 'L' cars in Chicago and 10 prototype cars are on CTA property now and are being tested on all eight of its lines. The cars are built in the same Plattsburgh plant that the R142s were built in. Let's see how they do.

[RokuSix]

It's not even about the cars. It's the mindset that we're living in now. People are angry. They're not behaving properly. It's the 1970s. I mean, even if a subway car was made out of toothpicks and gumdrops, citizens shouldn't be tagging them.

[akamtabx36]

although the newer trains are nice i believe that a train design like the R-32's is a better approach to train design because the lasted long and are still running

[B35 via Church]

Just watched that video 2 Train Master put up.

How appalling.

 

This is why we can't have anything nice in this city.

[DJ MC]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[St Louis Car 09]

Bombardier? You mean the same Bombardier that messed up on the R142 order and nearly got the R62A order yanked? Bombardier may make some innovative products overseas, such as the multiple-unit AGC trains in France which are capable of operating off of catenary wires and diesel-power in the same units and the Talent EMUs and DMUs which run in Germany, Austria and Norway as well as on Ottawa, Canada's O-Train. But they seem to have a problem getting their NYC subway cars to work well without significant modification. Kawasaki's people literally had to show Bombardier's people how to built the R62A cars and even had to provide them with some car shells back in the 80's. The Redbirds had to stay in service longer than expected because of multiple mechanical problems that caused the R142s to be sidelined for much of 2001 and early 2002 until the problems were fixed. That's why the MTA disqualified Bombardier from the R143 and R160 orders as well as the M8 order for Metro-North. Is Bombardier even on the radar for the R179 order?

 

I'm not saying Bombardier is a bad company that builds crappy trains. But their track record in New York is not great. It could be that asks for too much when it puts out subway car orders and that it's very hard for most car-builders to deliver exactly what the wants. Sometimes they change their minds on the specifications after putting out the order to tenders. Bombardier won an order for the new 5000-series 'L' cars in Chicago and 10 prototype cars are on CTA property now and are being tested on all eight of its lines. The cars are built in the same Plattsburgh plant that the R142s were built in. Let's see how they do.

Bombardier is great.Its the that puts builders through hell.Examples....

 

R46 order 1975-1979.In 1973 the(NYCT) put an order for 750 cars.TA top engineers tried to cut corners and had installed untested lightweight trucks which began cracking.Also P-wire and truck installation where the body meets the truck was an issue.Result.major lawsuits,low MDBF,And the end of Pullman-Standard

 

R44 Order 1971-1973.(NYCT)Put in the order for 300+ R44 cars which was the first 75 footers.St Louis car company was piling up major tooling loses due to the fact the cars experienced major problems.Bad wiring for the door controls resulting in fires,Structual issues, and Low MDBF.Result.The end of st.louis car in 1974

 

R62A order 1983-1987.Bombardier won the 825 car order since Kawasaki refused.Bombardier was fairly new to the railcar industry and needed help.As mentioned above A team from Japan arrived at Bombardier`s La Pocatiere Quebec plant for stainless steel carbody 101 with the help of a R62 shell.Major problem with this order was controllers which shorted out,causing a major switch of vendors GE and westinghouse.Bombardier was given 30 days or they lost the entire contract.Result.Bombardier still in business with a subpar track record with the .

 

Also push bus maunfacturers to the limit as well.Like the new flyer DHF60' artics.The are bullies in this field that require the latest tech by any means necessary.

[m7zanr160s]

although the newer trains are nice i believe that a train design like the R-32's is a better approach to train design because the lasted long and are still running

 

Still running, but barely. People talk about the 32's like they are still running well. They have the lowest MDBF of all the cars in the system. Those cars needs be retired. ...I know, I know: there's no money for that; I've saved you time.

[BSmith]

Still running, but barely. People talk about the 32's like they are still running well. They have the lowest MDBF of all the cars in the system. Those cars needs be retired. ...I know, I know: there's no money for that; I've saved you time.

 

Exactly. And only 1/3 or even 1/4 of the total large fleet is in service. And they had a GOH. It's impossible to tell how long the NTTs will last, they may make 30 years or 52 for all we know now. And, I don't see anything wrong with their sheet metal. I don't love the look of the R68s, they look dull and thin, but the trains are wearing alright. Who knows when a class of cars will develop a problem that may cause it to be retired, like the R44. The R46s won't have the same problem but the R46s may have been worse than the R44s in their first 10 years of service. Both were pretty horrible, and the R46 turned out to be a great train after numerous modifications.

 

There's a knocking the new and romanticizing the old that's the opposite of newer is better mentality. Both are wrong. The newer trains have their attributes and issues and the older ones did as well. I'm no lover of redbirds, I remember in the 70s/80s while the IND/BMT had modern trains the IRT passengers felt slighted that they had the redbirds. They didn't get "modern" trains until the R62. So, there's no romanticizing them with me. They were in service for awhile and when they were replaced IRT passengers were very happy to see the updated rolling stock. Let's hope the R62 continues to do well in service and the R142 and 142As serve their passengers well and last as long or longer than expected. The R160 is a huge order and so far one of the most reliable new fleet of trains the MTA has had in service.

[BSmith]

I want to say something about R32 and why it wasn't loved by most passengers though it is some sort of railfan icon. It came out in 1964 and was shiny and new, soon after the R38 debuted which was similar to most people. However, maybe 10 or so R38s had air-conditioning. The R40 was striking and more open and I think perhaps half of the cars were air-conditioned, maybe starting 4351 and higher. The R40 came out only 4 years after. Then all R40M and R42s, identical to most passengers, were air-conditioned and the R42 was on many B division lines. Then only 7 years after the R32 came in the R44 debuted and was a huge upgrade in terms of comfort, aesthetic design, and most noticeably quietness and smoothness (though it didn't handle crowds as well as older trains). The trains in the 70s were in horrible shape, and were not fixed until the late 80s and 90s with their GOHs.

 

Of course today's trains won't look like R32s. There are some features of the R32. I think the R68 and NTTs have corrugated roofs, the trains are stainless steel, and so there is a bit of the R32 in today's trains. The B division trains have the R44s curved sides and the R40s larger glass area. Sometimes something is kept of older designs as designs evolve.

 

Finally, sometimes it is just time to retire. Like its beyond time for Brett Favre. Sometimes it is time to modernize and in the passenger's viewpoints "update" and "upgrade" your fleet. Even if it is still running well and can last longer, sometimes it is just time to retire certain equipment. I think 40 years or so is long enough for trains. After that, though it is admirable that the train can last longer, it gets long-in-the-tooth in feel and outmoded and customers endure them while being variably annoyed that other lines have more modern equipment. Everyone pays the same fare so equipment should have a least a minimum standard for the paying customer.

[KTrainExp]

Have any of you ever wondered why R32s aren't tagged as much as R160s or any NTT? It's because they have ridges all along the car body which prevent marker vandalism to occur. This is why vandals target NTTs or any other train because they have a flat surface.

 

In addition to that, people mix colored ink with acidic solutions to make it stick. The cleaning solution for R160s isn't effective since it is only supposed to get rid of paint stains (correct me if I'm wrong), but the second that train goes into the wash, everything's going be clean again. That solution is only a temporary solution until the train gets completely washed.

[m7zanr160s]

I could be wrong, but I think the NTT's will--uhh, I want to say easily, but won't--last their intended 40 years by simple fact of modern know-how. Basically, the has had a lot of previous car types and materials to learn from, that'll keep them out of the same holes. Cause who wants to waste that many millions. I know, I know... Who, in their right mind, want's to waste that many millions.

[Guest lance25]

You could use the same argument to say the cars will last. With fewer car classes, the can replace broken parts/components easier since the cars will be similar to one another.

 

Another thing, some of these cars are less than a year old. How about we wait a few years before we start writing them off as a class of lemons.

[2 Train Master]

Still running, but barely. People talk about the 32's like they are still running well. They have the lowest MDBF of all the cars in the system. Those cars needs be retired. ...I know, I know: there's no money for that; I've saved you time.

They are still running well the suspension is fine and they brake pretty smooth and have an old school squeal.They may have the lowest mileage but they get the job done along the hauling ass into nearly every station on it's route.I mean it's not like a 32 won't move.They did what that had to do and they're just picking up the slack.They wanna retire but at the sametime they're needed.Or perhaps but them on a shorter route for fewer breakdowns other than the such as the Lefferts Shuttle/Rockaway Pk Shuttle, or any shuttle.

[Law]

They are still running well the suspension is fine and they brake pretty smooth and have an old school squeal.They may have the lowest mileage but they get the job done along the hauling ass into nearly every station on it's route.I mean it's not like a 32 won't move.They did what that had to do and they're just picking up the slack.They wanna retire but at the sametime they're needed.Or perhaps but them on a shorter route for fewer breakdowns other than the such as the Lefferts Shuttle/Rockaway Pk Shuttle, or any shuttle.

 

I don't think that the should use R32's. IMO I think they should run on the (, they would last longer since they don't run nights or weekends, also the ( low ridership during rush hours.