(2)/(5) Question

[R10 2952]

During rush hours, I sometimes see southbound trains with their destination signs reading 'New Lots Avenue', and I also see trains with signs that read 'Crown Heights-Utica Avenue'. Why is it that some trains are sent to New Lots Avenue and some trains are sent to Crown Heights-Utica Avenue during rush hours? Can anyone explain?

[King Of RedBirds]

During rush hours, I sometimes see southbound trains with their destination signs reading 'New Lots Avenue', and I also see trains with signs that read 'Crown Heights-Utica Avenue'. Why is it that some trains are sent to New Lots Avenue and some trains are sent to Crown Heights-Utica Avenue during rush hours? Can anyone explain?

 

Flatbush Ave Term can hold a certain amount of trains then they back up so they have to go to Crown heights or New lots. Does that answer your question.

[Mysterious2train]

Also there's no place to store trains at Flatbush...

 

At the end of AM Rush Hour, the trains that go to New Lots are stored in nearby Livionia yard, and they go to the Bronx during PM Rush Hour.

 

If my memory is correct, trains usually do three patterns (If they do it at the end of AM Rush, they go to the Bronx during PM Rush; if they go at the end of PM Rush, then they come back out the next morning for AM Rush)

 

1. Terminate at Utica, then lay up on the extra tracks beyond that station

2. Terminate at Utica, and run light past New Lots Ave to Livionia Yard.

3. Terminate at New Lots Ave, and run to Livionia Yard.

 

Hope I explained it clearly!

[Nova RTS 9147]

Also there's no place to store trains at Flatbush...

 

At the end of AM Rush Hour, the trains that go to New Lots are stored in nearby Livionia yard, and they go to the Bronx during PM Rush Hour.

 

If my memory is correct, trains usually do three patterns (If they do it at the end of AM Rush, they go to the Bronx during PM Rush; if they go at the end of PM Rush, then they come back out the next morning for AM Rush)

 

1. Terminate at Utica, then lay up on the extra tracks beyond that station

2. Terminate at Utica, and run light past New Lots Ave to Livionia Yard.

3. Terminate at New Lots Ave, and run to Livionia Yard.

 

Hope I explained it clearly!

 

That plus every other rush hour ends at Utica Avenue. Again, due to lack of space at Flatbush.

[Abba]

That plus every other rush hour ends at Utica Avenue. Again, due to lack of space at Flatbush.

 

I don't think it's every other.I'ts more like every 3rd or 4th one.Maybe in the morning rush. Definitely not the PM.

[Nova RTS 9147]

I don't think it's every other.I'ts more like every 3rd or 4th one.Maybe in the morning rush. Definitely not the PM.

 

In the morning its every other or damn near close to every other.

[TwoTimer]

And the reason they terminate at Utica and run lite to New Lots instead of the more natural terminate at New Lots (providing extra service) is to not tie up the pockets, just roll right through the station and out the other end so the behind it isn't delayed.

[mark1447]

You may also see some (5)s heading to New Lots for yard storage in Brooklyn. Ive seen this before.

 

PM Rush the last 2 or 3 trains end at Utica for the evening and start heading to ether 180th Street or Dyre the next day(Weekdays). Same for the which would instead head to 241st

[TriboroughBridge]

i think what the MTA should do @ flatbush Ave is. remove the bumper blocks & extend the track south of the station & the two tracks should become four tracks so there should be a four track yard. & create stairs either going above the trains or under the tracks so people can cross over or under to get to the other platform. Im sick & tired of having to wait for four trains & two trains! (all going to utica!) or for three train & once in a blue moon a coming by! ( train headways suck!) note to MTA; TAKE AWAY THOSE GODDAMN BUMPERS AT FLATBUSH AVE!!!!!

[mark1447]

i think what the MTA should do @ flatbush Ave is. remove the bumper blocks & extend the track south of the station & the two tracks should become four tracks so there should be a four track yard. & create stairs either going above the trains or under the tracks so people can cross over or under to get to the other platform. Im sick & tired of having to wait for four trains & two trains! (all going to utica!) or for three train & once in a blue moon a coming by! ( train headways suck!) note to MTA; TAKE AWAY THOSE GODDAMN BUMPERS AT FLATBUSH AVE!!!!!

 

Umm.. Thats a waste of money and time.. You already have 239th/180th/Unionport/Livonia all covering up the ..

 

And really? You wait for the at Utica..? For that Id take the one stop to Franklin for the ..(About a 2-3 min ride) Or if im heading along the Lex, take the instead. If heading to the Bronx on the WPR take it at Mott Avenue or anywhere along the Lex..

 

Utica is not a regular station, it IS only meant for the to end there for storage.. Same for the or heading to New Lots. (Tho the on the EL of the New Lots line is regular for Late Night and some rush hour trips.)

 

Don't blame the , blame yourself for standing at Utica for a .. If you get lucky to see a then take it, if not move off of Utica and use the . The goes to Flatbush/Bowling Green normally not Utica.(Again storage access is why it heads there)

 

TBH, if the were to remove the bumper, instead of making a yard for the (2)/(5), id just extend it to Kings Plaza (or the Rockaways? lol a bit long but still).

[peacemak3r]

In the morning its every other or damn near close to every other.

 

In the morning is definitely every other or third one. I'm saying this from a 845-920AM range at Atlantic Ave.

[Mysterious2train]

That plus every other rush hour ends at Utica Avenue. Again, due to lack of space at Flatbush.

 

This mainly depends on exactly what time of Rush Hour you're traveling. Going downtown in the AM Rush, yeah, every other trains does run to Utica, but in the latter part of PM Rush, heading downtown, when the is running to close to every 10 minutes, naturally every train will go to Flatbush (until the end of Rush Hour, of course)

[Roadcruiser1]

Nah I would rather follow the original IND Second System plan, and extend the with a rush hour down Utica Avenue to Kings Plaza as an elevated structure, and have the , and run underground to Coney Island-Stillwell Avenue by running down Nostrand Avenue in a subway tunnel, or elevating it north of the Brooklyn College station, and terminating it at Voorhies Avenue-Sheepshead Bay.

[Guest lance25]

Before this turns into yet another expansion thread, I think TriboroughBridge was stating that when waiting for a Flatbush Av-bound train, several Utica/New Lots Avs-bound trains fly by and if that's the case, I've felt his frustration. Back in '08 when I was heading down there, it felt like there were three Utica Av-bound trains, then the oddball train rolls in and finally a comes in to Franklin Av, only for waiting passengers to realize it's heading for New Lots Av.

[Nova RTS 9147]

This mainly depends on exactly what time of Rush Hour you're traveling. Going downtown in the AM Rush, yeah, every other trains does run to Utica, but in the latter part of PM Rush, heading downtown, when the is running to close to every 10 minutes, naturally every train will go to Flatbush (until the end of Rush Hour, of course)

 

Usually after 7 the calms down from going to New Lots and 238th and express in the bronx and such.

 

In the morning is definitely every other or third one. I'm saying this from a 845-920AM range at Atlantic Ave.

 

Its earlier than 845. At least 8'oclock into 920-930

[peacemak3r]

I'm sure it is earlier, I was just saying that I get to Atlantic Ave 4/5 platform and see it around 845.

[checkmatechamp13]

Umm.. Thats a waste of money and time.. You already have 239th/180th/Unionport/Livonia all covering up the ..

 

And really? You wait for the at Utica..? For that Id take the one stop to Franklin for the ..(About a 2-3 min ride) Or if im heading along the Lex, take the instead. If heading to the Bronx on the WPR take it at Mott Avenue or anywhere along the Lex..

 

Utica is not a regular station, it IS only meant for the to end there for storage.. Same for the or heading to New Lots. (Tho the on the EL of the New Lots line is regular for Late Night and some rush hour trips.)

 

Don't blame the , blame yourself for standing at Utica for a .. If you get lucky to see a then take it, if not move off of Utica and use the . The goes to Flatbush/Bowling Green normally not Utica.(Again storage access is why it heads there)

 

TBH, if the were to remove the bumper, instead of making a yard for the (2)/(5), id just extend it to Kings Plaza (or the Rockaways? lol a bit long but still).

 

Where did he say he takes the from Utica Avenue? It sounds like he was waiting at Franklin Avenue or Nevins Street for a train to Flatbush Avenue, and the only trains that came by were trains to New Lots Avenue/Utica Avenue.

 

Before this turns into yet another expansion thread, I think TriboroughBridge was stating that when waiting for a Flatbush Av-bound train, several Utica/New Lots Avs-bound trains fly by and if that's the case, I've felt his frustration. Back in '08 when I was heading down there, it felt like there were three Utica Av-bound trains, then the oddball train rolls in and finally a comes in to Franklin Av, only for waiting passengers to realize it's heading for New Lots Av.

 

That's what it sounded like to me.

[mark1447]

Where did he say he takes the from Utica Avenue? It sounds like he was waiting at Franklin Avenue or Nevins Street for a train to Flatbush Avenue, and the only trains that came by were trains to New Lots Avenue/Utica Avenue.

 

 

 

That's what it sounded like to me.

 

Well he didnt mentioned any station except Flatbush and it sounds like Utica, but idk.

[Eric B]

i think what the MTA should do @ flatbush Ave is. remove the bumper blocks & extend the track south of the station & the two tracks should become four tracks so there should be a four track yard. & create stairs either going above the trains or under the tracks so people can cross over or under to get to the other platform. Im sick & tired of having to wait for four trains & two trains! (all going to utica!) or for three train & once in a blue moon a coming by! ( train headways suck!) note to MTA; TAKE AWAY THOSE GODDAMN BUMPERS AT FLATBUSH AVE!!!!!

What they had actually planned to do at one point was to extend the tracks, then curve them to the east, to next to the LIRR tracks, under a parking garage, and they would end there, allowing faster speed into the terminal, and two layup positions.

But they just let that one go (now a new mall has been built in the way).

[MattTrain]

 

TBH, if the were to remove the bumper, instead of making a yard for the (2)/(5), id just extend it to Kings Plaza (or the Rockaways? lol a bit long but still).

 

The Nostrand Av Line was originally supposed to go as far down as Sheepshead Bay.

[Roadcruiser1]

Look in the direction of Southeast Brooklyn. You shall see them.

[Grand Concourse]

i think what the MTA should do @ flatbush Ave is. remove the bumper blocks & extend the track south of the station & the two tracks should become four tracks so there should be a four track yard. & create stairs either going above the trains or under the tracks so people can cross over or under to get to the other platform. Im sick & tired of having to wait for four trains & two trains! (all going to utica!) or for three train & once in a blue moon a coming by! ( train headways suck!) note to MTA; TAKE AWAY THOSE GODDAMN BUMPERS AT FLATBUSH AVE!!!!!

 

The only part of that I agree with is the part about removing the bumpers and extending the tracks past teh station. The trains should enter the station at normal speed, not move at a snail's pace.

I also agree about removing the current 'connector' platform for an underpass [near the turnstile area].

Other than that, the current station should be left alone.

Before this turns into yet another expansion thread, I think TriboroughBridge was stating that when waiting for a Flatbush Av-bound train, several Utica/New Lots Avs-bound trains fly by and if that's the case, I've felt his frustration. Back in '08 when I was heading down there, it felt like there were three Utica Av-bound trains, then the oddball train rolls in and finally a comes in to Franklin Av, only for waiting passengers to realize it's heading for New Lots Av.

 

I'm so glad the to Flatbush has become an 'all day thing'. Before like after 7-8pm when I had late classes, I would be just furious over seeing to Utica while the was crowded or took forever to show up at Franklin.

I'm just so happy the goes to Flatbush as I hated seeing 'empty' (5)s go to Utica while waiting for a packed .

[MikeGerald]

The Flatbush Avenue/Brooklyn College terminal station was not actually designed to be the terminal of that portion of the IRT Brooklyn subway when it was under construction, but was actually intended to be extended further into Brooklyn. There were water table issues, and of course the usual money issues for further expansion.

 

The IRT planned upon having an extension further down Utica Avenue for Brooklyn IRT local trains (see the bell-mouth at the north-end of platform 24/7365 entrance) while Lexington AVenue express tracks at least track wise were intended to go to New Lots Avenue. Again, it is all about money or the lack of money for further expansion.

 

The Flatbush AVenue segment for the longest time could not accommodate all of the westside trains as well as Lexington AVenue trains sent there during the rush hours. So Lexington Avenue trains were also sent to the Utica AVenue station, with the Utica AVenue terminal actually getting the greater amount of Lexington Avenue service.

 

This was the case when the #3 and #4 routes traveled to Flatbush AVenue during the rush hours in the 1970-80's, and the #4 during rush hours it was noted on the schedule also served Utica AVenue rush hours with the #5 line. That is the #4 during rush hours served BOTH terminals.

 

Since the switch-off of terminals for the #2, #3, #4 and #5 - it is the #5 route that has two Brooklyn rush hour terminals - Utica AVenue and Flatbush AVenue. There is also the issue of the MTA wanting to have SIMPLE routes and maps - where the Utica Avenue leg of the #5 line is not shown - even though historically it has existed for decades.

 

It has long been a fact that both eastside and westside trains were stored at the Livonia Yard, although recent years the #3 route stores about half of its trains there, with smaller numbers of trains for the other routes since those routes have train yards in the Bronx. Before the switch-off of terminals - when the #3 ran to Flatbush Avenue many of its trains were also stored at the Livonia Yard.

 

Just a couple of points.

Mike

[Kendell]

Well way back the Did used to run to New Lots ave-Maybe the sign is broken but i agree with all the users.If Flatbush Ave Was Extened for 4 tracks and 4 platforms (2)/(5) trains Can start going exp. trains can wait for 5 min to go back to the bronx while the waits for 10 min.Im still thinking about it.