MCI loses NJT bid, guess who wins...

[The Real]

You cant judge how a bus drives if you never drove one.

 

Those CNGs are total CRAP.

 

 

Except I have driven two of them and the two I drove were total rockets. The only real problems with those buses is the CNG tanks on them are small and the buses can not stay out all day like their diesel counterparts.

 

And lets not beat up on DesignLine so fast. The ONLY reason the NYMTA program failed was because of the Bosch Turbine Propulsion package on those buses (thus Bosch being the issue), the buses THEMSELVES were fine (thus NOT making DesignLine the issue) as the body design has been built by DL since the mid-late 1990s. Also, the diesel variant passed Altoona testing. Since diesel and CNG is an already proven power option, these buses should not be any troubles. HOWEVER, if NJT decides to go in with THEIR bullshit of changing up what already works, then THAT'S going to be the problem here, NOT DesignLine. DesignLine's only failing is really pushing that propulsion and not putting emphasis on their proven Diesel and CNG buses.

 

Need I remind everyone, that the NABIs would've been 100% successes has NJT not gone in and shorten the bus a whole 1.5 feet (Yes, those buses are not 40 footers, but 38.5 footers) and had not try to make the bus into a mini-MCI.

[qjtransitmaster]

 

Then why bother to post what you just said? Lemme tell you this; How in the hell do you justify putting bathroom buses on a route that is near where in length time wise like alot of the S.Jersey routes.

ur right I forgot only 150 series rtes come from there and 321. none need bathroom buses they shold go to s jersey and howell for split 317 runs.

[aemoreira81]

But NJT is not the place to make a comeback. I understand and all that peeps wana see something other then MCIs, but if your a driver and work outta Howell this is going to be a disaster. Route 9 is 100% MCIs for a reason. Prevost would even did the job, but they went to some cheap company because the CNG tanks can last 20years. I can bet any amount of money that wont be the case. I feel NJT should have atleast took a demo bus from them first before you jump into buying a bus from a company thats having trouble in the american market. They should have just axed the CNG program anyways......

 

The CNG tanks can last 25 years now. But even so, NJT should have gone with MCI, which can build a solid CNG bus.

 

If this blows up, this should be used against Chris Christie if he wants to run for higher office, because he knew or should have known about how problematic the company is. Did his people not speak to the MTA, or Baltimore City, about their problems with DesignLines? In Baltimore, their days are close to being numbered.

 

DesignLine may yet prove itself, but I have my doubts about going in with a big agency. Also, my concerns are more with DesignLine's finances.

[qjtransitmaster]

The CNG tanks can last 25 years now. But even so, NJT should have gone with MCI, which can build a solid CNG bus.

 

If this blows up, this should be used against Chris Christie if he wants to run for higher office, because he knew or should have known about how problematic the company is. Did his people not speak to the MTA, or Baltimore City, about their problems with DesignLines? In Baltimore, their days are close to being numbered.

 

DesignLine may yet prove itself, but I have my doubts about going in with a big agency. Also, my concerns are more with DesignLine's finances.

 

I hope it doesn't blowup in their face that will suck

[East New York]

The CNG tanks can last 25 years now. But even so, NJT should have gone with MCI, which can build a solid CNG bus.

 

If this blows up, this should be used against Chris Christie if he wants to run for higher office, because he knew or should have known about how problematic the company is. Did his people not speak to the MTA, or Baltimore City, about their problems with DesignLines? In Baltimore, their days are close to being numbered.

 

DesignLine may yet prove itself, but I have my doubts about going in with a big agency. Also, my concerns are more with DesignLine's finances.

 

Their finances are nothing to worry about at all really. They have money, and they also plan on building 300 buses next year.

[BZGuy]

And yes, many times when a TA goes with a low bidder after years of exclusivity, pricing is usually a factor to some extent!

 

All I know is this is a complete shock......kinda like if Southwest said it was gonna buy Airbus! After all these years and thousands of MCI Cruisers, to turn to a untested, unseen bus from a questionable manufacturer is......well odd! I just hope there are no more bribery issues here.

[The Real]

All I know is this is a complete shock......kinda like if Southwest said it was gonna buy Airbus! After all these years and thousands of MCI Cruisers, to turn to a untested, unseen bus from a questionable manufacturer is......well odd! I just hope there are no more bribery issues here.

 

Except the buses isn't untested (Tested and passed Altoona) and the bus has been seen for years and DesignLine has been in business for ages (they are only new to the US).

[SirJokaPlaya]

I don't know, Vintage. I mean, this is Virgin territory that NJT is treading on. NJT as a massive history with MCI, even during the NJ Tours days, and if you guys seen the pictures on the net, you guys know what I mean. I just don't know. I mean, why not Prevost? Hell, MTA is doing Prevosts! Unless they can't do Prevosts because of the height issues with PABT, then...........man, I just don't know about this. Something tells me this will not be a good situation. In some ways, I'm glad I'm on the outside looking in when I left NJT, because if they told me that the future MCI's will be DesignLine, I just don't know.......

 

On a side note, does anyone work at or knows anyone at CoachUSA? I might be getting a F/T Driving job at the Butler, PA Location.

[DaTransitMan4608]

(NJT) is crazy for doing this though. Like SirJokaPlaya, they were running MCIs when I was a baby. Hell I rode an MCI on the 116 when I was 3. And now, NJT ends their MCI deal? I can't believe it, and here I was thinking that those Paper Buses that I made were gonna be our new CNGs. Well I'm not gonna delete that hard work. Anyways, this is very puzzling as to why NJT just chose DesignLine out of the blue without giving MCI a chance.

[553 Bridgeton]

I don't know, Vintage. I mean, this is Virgin territory that NJT is treading on. NJT as a massive history with MCI, even during the NJ Tours days, and if you guys seen the pictures on the net, you guys know what I mean. I just don't know. I mean, why not Prevost? Hell, MTA is doing Prevosts! Unless they can't do Prevosts because of the height issues with PABT, then...........man, I just don't know about this. Something tells me this will not be a good situation. In some ways, I'm glad I'm on the outside looking in when I left NJT, because if they told me that the future MCI's will be DesignLine, I just don't know.......

 

On a side note, does anyone work at or knows anyone at CoachUSA? I might be getting a F/T Driving job at the Butler, PA Location.

 

CUSA on this end, the pay is crap. $7.50/hr for peeps with CDL Permits and $10.00/hr with a CDL. I went to that Community Coach in Paramus and I heard that and ran like hell. There was a couple other locations they told me that paid that rate but I forgot which.

 

Except the buses isn't untested (Tested and passed Altoona) and the bus has been seen for years and DesignLine has been in business for ages (they are only new to the US).

 

But wouldn't it make sense for NJT to get a demo bus? But I do understand they may or may not had a test bus ready.

 

Lets be realistic here; i mean this order could make or break DesignLine imo.

[SirJokaPlaya]

CUSA on this end, the pay is crap. $7.50/hr for peeps with CDL Permits and $10.00/hr with a CDL. I went to that Community Coach in Paramus and I heard that and ran like hell. There was a couple other locations they told me that paid that rate but I forgot which.

 

 

 

But wouldn't it make sense for NJT to get a demo bus? But I do understand they may or may not had a test bus ready.

 

Lets be realistic here; i mean this order could make or break DesignLine imo.

 

Yeah, you got a point. If this goes down, this can decide the future of DesignLine.

 

As for the job, I need something. I'm not doing school buses no more because they treated me like shit with hours while I can do full time and get benefits. It's better than nothing.

[SirJokaPlaya]

(NJT) is crazy for doing this though. Like SirJokaPlaya, they were running MCIs when I was a baby. Hell I rode an MCI on the 116 when I was 3. And now, NJT ends their MCI deal? I can't believe it, and here I was thinking that those Paper Buses that I made were gonna be our new CNGs. Well I'm not gonna delete that hard work. Anyways, this is very puzzling as to why NJT just chose DesignLine out of the blue without giving MCI a chance.

 

It's the Dollar. It's weak and NJT wanted someone that can produce for a cheaper cost. But you know what they say about that? Cheaper costs: cheaper quality. So, who knows?

[The Real]

I don't know, Vintage. I mean, this is Virgin territory that NJT is treading on. NJT as a massive history with MCI, even during the NJ Tours days, and if you guys seen the pictures on the net, you guys know what I mean. I just don't know. I mean, why not Prevost? Hell, MTA is doing Prevosts! Unless they can't do Prevosts because of the height issues with PABT, then...........man, I just don't know about this. Something tells me this will not be a good situation. In some ways, I'm glad I'm on the outside looking in when I left NJT, because if they told me that the future MCI's will be DesignLine, I just don't know.......

 

On a side note, does anyone work at or knows anyone at CoachUSA? I might be getting a F/T Driving job at the Butler, PA Location.

 

Listen, the whole thing is, you guys are beating up on a bus that hasn't even arrived yet, yeesh! Let the bus arrive, let it do its thing, THEN formulate a proper opinion. Instead of the, "OMG THE BUS FAILED IN NEW YORK ITS A PIECE OF SHIT" bandwagon that people are in when the facts are laid out that the bus itself was not the problem in NY, but the propulsion which was NOT built by DesignLine.

 

I don't know, maybe I'm just an alien that functions on logic. I can't stand it when people beat up on something just because its different. It's just like this Prevost in NY, I'm not entirely happy with it, BUT I will give it a chance before coming out with an opinion on the bus.

 

But wouldn't it make sense for NJT to get a demo bus? But I do understand they may or may not had a test bus ready.

 

Lets be realistic here; i mean this order could make or break DesignLine imo.

 

I'm being quite realistic, the bus being provided on this order has been proven in one of the most stringent testing environments, Altoona. The body design survived New York. And no not necessarily on the demo bus front. The NABI order didn't have a demo bus, it had a Pilot bus, but not a demo.

[Pablo M 201]

Here's an interesting post on Sub/BusChat that might give a better understanding of how DesignLine was selected for the order....:

 

http://www.subchat.com/buschat/read.asp?Id=239200

[BZGuy]

Need I remind everyone, that the NABIs would've been 100% successes has NJT not gone in and shorten the bus a whole 1.5 feet (Yes, those buses are not 40 footers, but 38.5 footers) and had not try to make the bus into a mini-MCI.

 

Actually I think the correct term is "Ghetto Cruiser"! lol

 

I don't know....from a fanner perspective I a way I can't wait to see these buses but from a business perspective the order makes no sense. To add another bus to a the fleet,when you have mechanics and drivers already trained on the MCIs makes no sense. While the list prices may have been cheaper building up a spare parts inventory is gonna be costly, plus if they are smart they will keep a couple CNG MCIs around just in case of hiccups with the Designline's.

 

My main thing with this is that I don't think Howell should have been the "test" garage for the Designline's. The 139 (and it many variants) is probably the heaviest carrying line at (NJT). To use the Rt. 9 commuters as guinea pigs for this is screaming from problems. Plus I don't care for the idea of a low-floor bus on a line like the 139, just based on the length and amount of highway time it has.

 

I can agree to disagree, but I think this is gonna be a big mistake and like I said earlier the guys from Howell are gonna take it on the chin!

[553 Bridgeton]

Listen, the whole thing is, you guys are beating up on a bus that hasn't even arrived yet, yeesh! Let the bus arrive, let it do its thing, THEN formulate a proper opinion. Instead of the, "OMG THE BUS FAILED IN NEW YORK ITS A PIECE OF SHIT" bandwagon that people are in when the facts are laid out that the bus itself was not the problem in NY, but the propulsion which was NOT built by DesignLine.

 

 

The fact is they ordered Low Floor buses for Route9 is stupid and if you think its smart then cool, but its not smart. Lets say this order was for Meadowlands ect, you wouldn't hear all this chatter. Howell is not the place for a debacle to go down.

 

Do you seriously think they would throw NABIs at Howell? Something just doesn't seem right about this, and I think its a tactic to get MCI at a lower price.

 

Howell uses those MCI CNGs like hell, and if they beat up those DLs like they do the MCI CNGs then I would love to see how they will last. Im dying to see what these DLs will look like and how they will perform. And if they are great, cool, if not then epic fail on NJTs part.

[The Real]

The fact is they ordered Low Floor buses for Route9 is stupid and if you think its smart then cool, but its not smart. Lets say this order was for Meadowlands ect, you wouldn't hear all this chatter. Howell is not the place for a debacle to go down.

 

Do you seriously think they would throw NABIs at Howell? Something just doesn't seem right about this, and I think its a tactic to get MCI at a lower price.

 

Howell uses those MCI CNGs like hell, and if they beat up those DLs like they do the MCI CNGs then I would love to see how they will last. Im dying to see what these DLs will look like and how they will perform. And if they are great, cool, if not then epic fail on NJTs part.

 

 

AH, need I remind everyone that Howell had Flxibles METRO Bs at one time prior to the MCI D4000 diesels.

 

However, I'm done going through with the logic explanation. I will just sit back and wait for the buses to arrive and see how they do on the routes, then will make my conclusion!

 

Also, low floor buses would actually work better on Route 9...fast loading times, which has always been an issue for years on the Route 9 routes.

[ChickenPotPie]

I don't know, Vintage. I mean, this is Virgin territory that NJT is treading on. NJT as a massive history with MCI, even during the NJ Tours days, and if you guys seen the pictures on the net, you guys know what I mean. I just don't know. I mean, why not Prevost? Hell, MTA is doing Prevosts! Unless they can't do Prevosts because of the height issues with PABT, then...........man, I just don't know about this. Something tells me this will not be a good situation. In some ways, I'm glad I'm on the outside looking in when I left NJT, because if they told me that the future MCI's will be DesignLine, I just don't know.......

I like the way you think, or rather, the way you don't think. What you are suggesting is NJT handing out a no-bid contract or an absurdly specifically worded competitive contract that only one company can fulfill. A no-bid contract in this situation is very much illegal. They can only be handed out when only one company can do the job or in a situation of such extreme urgency that a competitive contract is too time-consuming. Since an order of 45-foot transit buses to replace an aging fleet fulfills neither of those requirements, a no-bid contract would be illegal here. Another thing NJT could have done to ensure that MCI won the contract was to make the requirements of the bid so specific that only they could have won. That, too, is very much illegal and has gotten politicians in trouble in the past. So NJT had absolutely no choice but to put up a competitive bid open to any company that can build a 45-foot CNG transit bus. I'm sure NJT wanted another MCI order as much any of you as that would lower maintenance costs, but it just wasn't possible. DesignLine was the lowest bidder and met all the requirements of the contract. There was nothing legal NJT could do about it. End of story.

[East New York]

I don't know, Vintage. I mean, this is Virgin territory that NJT is treading on. NJT as a massive history with MCI, even during the NJ Tours days, and if you guys seen the pictures on the net, you guys know what I mean. I just don't know. I mean, why not Prevost? Hell, MTA is doing Prevosts! Unless they can't do Prevosts because of the height issues with PABT, then...........man, I just don't know about this. Something tells me this will not be a good situation. In some ways, I'm glad I'm on the outside looking in when I left NJT, because if they told me that the future MCI's will be DesignLine, I just don't know.......

 

On a side note, does anyone work at or knows anyone at CoachUSA? I might be getting a F/T Driving job at the Butler, PA Location.

 

As I have said before, every agency adds a new bus to the fleet at some point in time. DesignLine buses are proven, this is just a new market.

 

Speaking of Prevost, the first ever X3-45 Transit buses are headed to MTA. These buses have never been in transit service anywhere.

 

(NJT) is crazy for doing this though. Like SirJokaPlaya, they were running MCIs when I was a baby. Hell I rode an MCI on the 116 when I was 3. And now, NJT ends their MCI deal? I can't believe it, and here I was thinking that those Paper Buses that I made were gonna be our new CNGs. Well I'm not gonna delete that hard work. Anyways, this is very puzzling as to why NJT just chose DesignLine out of the blue without giving MCI a chance.

 

You're taking this to a whole new level! NJT will soon need about 1300 cruisers IIRC. Who do you think will get the bulk, if not all of the order(s)? I sure as hell don't see it being DesignLine!

 

When did NJT end any deal with MCI? For that matter, when did they even have one in place?

 

 

But wouldn't it make sense for NJT to get a demo bus? But I do understand they may or may not had a test bus ready.

 

Lets be realistic here; i mean this order could make or break DesignLine imo.

 

If something were to happen with this deal, and it went south, DL will still be fine. They have a solid bus that is very comfortable, and again proven. It would hurt their rep a bit, but nothing serious.

 

Listen, the whole thing is, you guys are beating up on a bus that hasn't even arrived yet, yeesh! Let the bus arrive, let it do its thing, THEN formulate a proper opinion. Instead of the, "OMG THE BUS FAILED IN NEW YORK ITS A PIECE OF SHIT" bandwagon that people are in when the facts are laid out that the bus itself was not the problem in NY, but the propulsion which was NOT built by DesignLine.

 

I don't know, maybe I'm just an alien that functions on logic. I can't stand it when people beat up on something just because its different. It's just like this Prevost in NY, I'm not entirely happy with it, BUT I will give it a chance before coming out with an opinion on the bus.

 

 

 

I'm being quite realistic, the bus being provided on this order has been proven in one of the most stringent testing environments, Altoona. The body design survived New York. And no not necessarily on the demo bus front. The NABI order didn't have a demo bus, it had a Pilot bus, but not a demo.

 

A lot of people also don't know that MTA is willing to look at DL's buses again. They just assume that because the hybrid deal fell through, DL didn't make quality buses, which couldn't be farther from the truth. I knew for a fact that DL was not done in America.

 

I like the way you think, or rather, the way you don't think. What you are suggesting is NJT handing out a no-bid contract or an absurdly specifically worded competitive contract that only one company can fulfill. A no-bid contract in this situation is very much illegal. They can only be handed out when only one company can do the job or in a situation of such extreme urgency that a competitive contract is too time-consuming. Since an order of 45-foot transit buses to replace an aging fleet fulfills neither of those requirements, a no-bid contract would be illegal here. Another thing NJT could have done to ensure that MCI won the contract was to make the requirements of the bid so specific that only they could have won. That, too, is very much illegal and has gotten politicians in trouble in the past. So NJT had absolutely no choice but to put up a competitive bid open to any company that can build a 45-foot CNG transit bus. I'm sure NJT wanted another MCI order as much any of you as that would lower maintenance costs, but it just wasn't possible. DesignLine was the lowest bidder and met all the requirements of the contract. There was nothing legal NJT could do about it. End of story.

 

That's actually not true. There are ways to secure no-bid contracts in either situation. Because of the fact that it was only 76 buses, actually makes it all the more easy to go the no-bid, or Best Value route.

 

Not only that, but not all competitive procurements are required to go to the lowest bidder. Some are "Best Value" base, which is totally legal, and the agency can chose what ever model they want if they feel it offers the best value overall.

 

As for the part in red, you can actually get away with that legally.

 

Example. MTA wanted 328 new artics. The only artic that was "Approved" by the MTA at the time of contract award was Nova. It's a new era now. Things can be done differently.

 

Example 2. An unidentified company will soon release an RFP for a High Floor Stainless Steel suburban transit coach. According to the requirement's, the only bus that would meet them is the RTS.

 

Not only that, but many competitive bids are tendered where you know only one company will get it in the end.

 

Being very specific in a RFP isn't illegal. Could it cause a firestorm? Possibly. But illegal? No.

[SirJokaPlaya]

Maybe NJT is paying attention to these new buses and maybe deciding on future orders when the MCI's are getting older when it's time to replace them, maybe. I wouldn't mind driving that new Prevost that MTA has. The front destination sign is wicked! lol

[East New York]

Maybe NJT is paying attention to these new buses and maybe deciding on future orders when the MCI's are getting older when it's time to replace them, maybe. I wouldn't mind driving that new Prevost that MTA has. The front destination sign is wicked! lol

 

Were we looking at the same bus? Lol! That front destination sign is NOT whats up! The windshield divide looks stupid! They should have used the same signs that were on the demo.

[SirJokaPlaya]

Were we looking at the same bus? Lol! That front destination sign is NOT whats up! The wished divide looks stupid! They should have used the same signs that were on the demo.

 

Unfortunately, if they did that, you'd probably get some people going DOES THIS BUS GO THIS WAY. With that big azz sign, there's no excuse.

[SirJokaPlaya]

I like the way you think, or rather, the way you don't think. What you are suggesting is NJT handing out a no-bid contract or an absurdly specifically worded competitive contract that only one company can fulfill. A no-bid contract in this situation is very much illegal. They can only be handed out when only one company can do the job or in a situation of such extreme urgency that a competitive contract is too time-consuming. Since an order of 45-foot transit buses to replace an aging fleet fulfills neither of those requirements, a no-bid contract would be illegal here. Another thing NJT could have done to ensure that MCI won the contract was to make the requirements of the bid so specific that only they could have won. That, too, is very much illegal and has gotten politicians in trouble in the past. So NJT had absolutely no choice but to put up a competitive bid open to any company that can build a 45-foot CNG transit bus. I'm sure NJT wanted another MCI order as much any of you as that would lower maintenance costs, but it just wasn't possible. DesignLine was the lowest bidder and met all the requirements of the contract. There was nothing legal NJT could do about it. End of story.

 

First off, it was a opinion, and I was THINKING, so, excuse me. Second off, I'm thinking as a driver, a passenger, and as a person that wants to see the best for a company that I enjoyed working for, and will do what I need to do to come back once I'm back on my feet. More importantly, I was also nervous with NABI's until they got there and I drove them. I enjoyed them thought they have flaws. A lot of people here know that Designline isn't know for cruisers, yet companies with PROVEN TRACK RECORDS like Motor Coach Industries, Prevost, Eagle, etc. would of been a more sensible choice, and I'm 100% nervous of any CNG bus in a area where the people want royal royces for buses. So, I have merit for my comments, so please do not say I don't think. Thank you.

[qjtransitmaster]

 

Unfortunately, if they did that, you'd probably get some people going DOES THIS BUS GO THIS WAY. With that big azz sign, there's no excuse.

unfortunately stupidity knows no bounds

[R68 Subway Car]

This is a complete shocker. MCI really messed up here.